--- Log opened Tue Apr 11 00:00:43 2023
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00:05 < thrig> red team phish, grue fish
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00:11 < croc_> On the latest OpenBSD (7.3), I'm getting some errors when it comes to installing the sets. I've tried both within a virtual machine and on bare-metal, I get the same thing. This is the output it gives me in blue text whenever it errors out: https://bpa.st/XTCPA
00:11 < croc_> I don't have this problem if I try to install 7.2 instead
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00:36 < kn> croc_: do snapshots also panic?  either way, a proper report would help
00:37 < croc_> kn: Where do I find snapshots? I'd like to make a proper report, I couldn't find where to though, so I cam here.
00:37 < croc_> s/cam/came
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00:52 < thrig> we cam in peace
00:52 < kn> croc_: https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/
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01:37 < apotheon> For an OpenBSD 7.1 system: Should running sysupgrade just upgrade to 7.2, even if 7.3 is out, or would it try to upgrade to 7.3 directly?  I haven't found anything in the manpage that does more than suggest a particular outcome, so far.
01:38 < dayid> the advised method is to always go to each point.
01:38 < pardis> sysupgrade will always go to the next release
01:39 < dayid> there are some things like when 7.2 will "clear up" something in 7.1 that's been changed, whereas if you jump to 7.3 you may not have such, etc.
01:39 < dayid> The extra 10 minutes usually worth it.
01:39 < pardis> I think the question is about the implementation of sysyupgrade, not the advised strategy
01:39 < dayid> Derp - rereading I see now.
01:39 < dayid> Yes, it will go to "next release" being _next after what you have_
01:40 < pardis> it's also just a shell script, so easy enough to inspect what it does
01:41 < r7st> ah gee i just finish building out everything on 7.2 and now ya make 7.3 stable
01:41 < pardis> release cycles are predictable
01:41 < pardis> 7.3 was going to be released sometime in the next month or so, no matter what
01:42 < r7st> i can't be expected to read! haha
01:43 < oldlaptop> apotheon: I just did that with an apu2, it steps from one release to the next (as you would want it to do, since skipping releases is one of those "you get to keep both pieces" things)
01:43 < oldlaptop> r7st: 7.2 will also remain supported until the fall, at least in the sense that it'll get errata.
01:44 < pardis> assuming that you are in the northern hemisphere
01:44 < pardis> in the southern hemisphere, it will be supported until the spring
01:44 < thrig> and on the equator?
01:44 < r7st> support is indefinite on the equator iirc
01:45 < r7st> oldlaptop: yea - that's plenty of time to upgrade, no big deal :)
01:45 < oldlaptop> Unfortunately, the zero-width computer necessary to run OpenBSD precisely over the equator is not yet commercially available.
01:46 < jf> "/usr/sbin/sysupgrade" looks at the kern.version of the system when it runs, and then adds a 0.1 to that to get the next release. look for "sysctl -n kern.version" in the script. (ie if you are on 7.1 it will take you to 7.2)
01:47 < rsjw> even though 7.2 will remain supported, the -stable ports tree only gets security backports for the latest releaase, according to https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ports/ports.html, so it's not exactly the same
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01:49 < oldlaptop> Until quite recently, the current release didn't get new binary packages either. (I don't believe many people ever bothered building ports just to get -stable updates, although there existed a commercial service that was at least moderately popular.)
01:49 < thrig> compiling firefox was a bear
01:49 < r7st> i've never actually done an openbsd release upgrade. i hope it is less annoying than rocky 8->9
01:50 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD release upgrades don't tend to be a big deal. (Some software can be a big deal. I believe someone mentioned postgres earlier...)
01:50 < thrig> or recompiling binaries, stuff like that
01:51 < thrig> not the "gosh, I have to learn a new OS" of redhat linux
01:51 < r7st> rhel and friends tend to not be particularly clean release upgrades, but better than ubuntu at least
01:51 < oldlaptop> the Great time_t Apocalypse of 5.5 was about as bad as it gets
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01:52 < jf> oldlaptop i remember that!
01:52 < thrig> 2037, followed by 2038 and then 1901
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01:53 < r7st> when was that?
01:53 < oldlaptop> http://openbsd.org/55.html
01:54 < rsjw> some say it was in 2037, some say 2038, others say it was in 1901
01:54 < oldlaptop> it is instructive, regarding openbsd's attitude towards ABI stability, to contrast this approach with those being used on (say) netbsd or linux
01:55 < r7st> that looks like it would break a bunch of ports yea?
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01:56 < r7st> oldlaptop: the linux way is use LTS and hope you don't need that server anymore in 10 years
01:56 < oldlaptop> At an API level, not really - that is, most things that tolerate 64-bit words anyway wouldn't care about 64-bit time_t.
01:56 < oldlaptop> At the ABI level, something closely approaching all binaries broke
01:57 < thrig> you'll still see 32-bit assumptions in ported software
01:57 < oldlaptop> indeed, but they will tend to be broken whatever size time_t is
01:58 < jf> time_t went from 32b to 64b in all memory and disk (and network) representations. ffs had a period of "is it 32 or 64 today"
01:59 < thrig> mailman was less fun, had to write some perl scripts to export everything and recreate the lists (because they used something on-disk that was specific to 32-bit...
01:59 < jf> speaking of abi changes, anyone else remember the great ipfilter ripout that was the beginning of pf?
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02:04 < r7st> i missed out :(
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02:07 < jf> it was patches from (maybe) 2.5 then in 2.7 and gone by 3.0
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02:08 < thrig> but I recall the config was pretty similar
02:08 < a1fa> sooop
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02:09 < jf> it was. pf developed well past ipf pretty quickly though.
02:10 < thrig> so it wasn't like "here's nftables, and there's no documentation, yet"
02:11 < jf> not at all. i *think* (it was a long time ago) Darren and Theo got into some discussion about implementation and Darren pulled out some licensing argument and then it was .. ripped out.
02:12 < jf> (i used to patch solaris boxes with old old 3.2 ipfilter patches, back before color was invented)
02:13 < thrig> back when nmap would kick over an irix box and btw don't firewall localhost there, because no X11
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02:18 < jf> .. and tcpwrappers were a thing ..
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02:25 < jf> found it! the ipf removal (and trigger for the genesis of pf) was a licensing change by the ipf author: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=99118533920894&w=2
02:25 < jf> (it is a LONG thread)
02:27 < jf> ("clarification". not "change")
02:27 < thrig> many bikesheds were created to bring you these plans
02:27 < jf> oh my goodness yes. bikesheds of many glorious colors.
02:28 < jcs> ah the baby mulching machines
02:30 < jf> "fargo" branded?
02:31 < jf> eh, old stuff. that was all 20+ years ago. what will happen in the next 20+ years?
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02:46 < Open_Sesame> Hi all, How can I view PDF's saved to my HDD in Firefox on OpenBSD?
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02:47 < Open_Sesame> I've tried ALT-F to bring up what I was hoping was the main menu where you'd typically find "Open" to then select a given file, but all there is by way of options is "New tab" "New Windows" etc.
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02:48 < xtile> Last time I tried, the file: URI type was broken in Firefox on OpenBSD.
02:48 < xtile> but try putting file:/// into the address bar
02:48 < thrig> probably due to unveil, to prevent bad software from, say, reading ~/.ssh files
02:49 < Open_Sesame> Thanks xtile
02:49 < jcs> hardly seems broken then
02:49 < xtile> I write HTML by hand and I need to be able to use Firefox to view any file and any directory :P
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02:50 < pardis> Open_Sesame: you will have to make sure the PDF is in a path listed in /etc/firefox/unveil.main
02:50 < Open_Sesame> so I'm putting that "file://" into the URL at the top of the Firefox window? How can I paste a directory/filename.pdf to then open.... Or do I have to memorise the multiple directory structure I've got the PDF saved to, and then manually type it all in after file:///   ?
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02:50 < pardis> either by moving the PDF or adding to that file (and restarting firefox in the latter case)
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02:55 < Open_Sesame> Thanks pardis Im just modifying the FFox unveil.main using vi as we speak... Whats the key to delete a character in Vi ?
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02:57 < brynet> jcs: 2019 is when you landed the Firefox unveil(2) support right? you'd think it was only yesterday..
02:58 < xtile> Open_Sesame: x deletes one character
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02:59 < brynet> If you modify the browser unveil/pledge configuration files in /etc they will no longer be updated when you upgrade the package. If you're not confortable dealing with the fallout when that happens, stick with the default paths.
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03:00 < pony> im sysupgrading to the next release now
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03:08 < jf> pony hope it is quick and easy
03:09 < pony> all done :)
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03:10 < jf> sweet! time for "pkg_add -u" ....
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03:12 < thrig> looks like someone got taken to the sysclean ers
03:12 < Open_Sesame> thanks xtile - just /wq now
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03:15 < Open_Sesame> ok thanks all for your help - time to get on with work
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06:47 < avemestr> jf: Wow, nice trip down memory lane that mail thread!
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07:35 < renaud> it seems that, on 7.3, you cannot remove php81 without removing nextcloud, but nextcloud-23 doesn't work with php81
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08:59 < neminis> hello, i saw on undeadly that general and network performance improved in 7.3, any of you know of benchmark about this?
09:00 < zelest> Not that I've seen, but I benchmarked my own apu2 at home which got about 300Mb/s down and 350Mb/s up on 7.2.. and 440Mb/s down and 442Mb/s up on 7.3.. :D
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09:01 < neminis> wow that's nice, i must say it does *feel* faster on my daily driver, chrome above all
09:01 < zelest> Far from a scientific test though and it might as well be my neighbours exhausting the pipe on the first test so..
09:01 < neminis> yes it's difficult to say so that's why i am asking out of curiosity
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09:02 < zelest> The only "downside" with 7.3, which of course is a good one, is that PostgreSQL is bumped from 14.x to 15.x, meaning it's annoying to upgrade. :D
09:03 < zelest> But that's obviously a good downside :P
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09:03 < neminis> i don't have that "problem"
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09:04 < neminis> it went smoothly for me, i cleared /usr/local/* as much as I could and also used sysclean to keep things clean, it's been close to 3 years in a row that i upgrade without having to reinstall
09:04 < neminis> no issues, just amazing
09:04 < zelest> :D
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09:35 < renaud> oh, I can't install OpenBSD 7.3 on my old emachines laptop
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09:35 < renaud> panic: malloc: allocation too large.
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09:37 < renaud> I am not sure I used 7.2 on it either, but it worked in the past
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09:39 < ty3r0x_> renaud: how much memory does the laptop have?
09:39 < renaud> 2Gb
09:39 < ty3r0x_> better question may be if the memory is good
09:39 < renaud> it boots kali linux fine
09:40 < ty3r0x_> hmm, can you boot openbsd fine on other hosts with the same media?
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09:40 < renaud> I didn't try, but that's a newly dd'ed usb stick
09:41 < ty3r0x_> give it a try to pinpoint the cause
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09:43 < renaud> it boots fine on a T450
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09:45 < renaud> I will try with i386 instead of amd64
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09:52 < renaud> i386 works
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10:21 < a1fa> o/
10:21 < a1fa> libera is pretty unstable 
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11:03 < avemestr> Another anectote on network performance increase: https://www.reddit.com/r/openbsd/comments/12hogpc/network_improvements/
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11:04 < avemestr> *anecdote
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11:35 < renaud> is there any work on supporting wpa3?
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11:38 < renaud> OpenBSD sees my WPA3 only network as WPA2 and is unable to connect
11:38 < sibiria> WPA3+2 combo compat mode ftw.
11:39 < renaud> not possible with wifi 6e
11:39 < renaud> if you want to enable 6Ghz, you need to put WPA3 only
11:40 < renaud> so, it must also support protected management frames
11:40 < sibiria> 802.11w works on wpa2
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11:40 < renaud> yes, but 6Ghz mandates WPA3
11:41 < renaud> and to get WPA3, you need 802.11w
11:41 < sibiria> can you even connect to 11ax with any openbsd driver?
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11:41 < renaud> well, the athn is connected as 11n
11:41 < renaud> I have no 11ax card
11:41 < renaud> I can try with a 11ac one
11:42 < renaud> the thing is, it should not show wpa2 for a network which is wpa3 only
11:42 < sibiria> openbsd wifi drivers must be forgiven. they try hard, they really do
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11:43 < renaud> ugen0 at uhub0 port 1 "MediaTek Inc. Wireless" rev 2.10/1.00 addr 3
11:43 < renaud> I know, maybe I should have  alook at how to detect wpa3 only networks so, at least, it would list them as such
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11:44 < sibiria> i have a mix of old and new devices in my home, so i have to run something unideal to allow connectivity without having dual access points. wpa2+3 with 802.11w on 5ghz/"wifi4" is the only working solution
11:44 < renaud> now, to be honest, I have only 3 devices at home capable of wifi6e
11:45 < renaud> I have 3 SSIDs, 1 for guests, one for "normal" clients, and one which is wpa3 only for "new" clients
11:45 < sibiria> and afaik there are currently no unplugged holes in WPA2 itself. 802.11w adds the last layer of protection
11:46 < renaud> I find it funny, I have a Motorola edge 20 pro, which is not capable of 6ghz, and wife and kids have the non-pro version, which is 6ghz capable
11:48 < renaud> anyway, I can count on my hands the number of times I have seen them connecting in 6ghz instead of 5ghz
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11:52 < epony> I have 3 lanes in my pool too.
11:54 < renaud> epony: how hot is the water now?
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11:54 < epony> depens how many fishes share the lane
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12:01 < brock> the plural of fish is fishes
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12:03 < epony> shared medium is like that, you have to work with what you got as common capability that is reliable
12:04 < epony> it causes retransmits and overhead with more than one station trying to send at the same time
12:05 < epony> the wider the channels the less you can use without sharing bands and lost that lane
12:06 < epony> on G mode you have about 4 non overlapping
12:06 < renaud> there are some ISP provided wifi routers here that are configured to use 40Mhz BW with 2.4Ghz
12:08 < epony> that would probably make it to 2 non-overlapping
12:08 < renaud> in 6Ghz, I have no shame using 160Mhz BW
12:08 < sibiria> gotta make those covid-19 mRNA injection sites light up
12:09 < epony> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels?useskin=vector#2.4_GHz_(802.11b/g/n/ax)
12:09 < sibiria> at regular 5ghz 80mhz they only illuminate in the far IR band, which regular humans can't pick up
12:09 < renaud> ah, crap, that's why my arm lights up
12:09 < xgpt> What exactly is 'errata' is that a different word for 'patch' or is it more like "here's something wrong about this version, it's fixed in a newer version" 
12:09 < xgpt> Kind of like a CVE???
12:09 < epony> focus on what the OpenBSD drivers support ;-)
12:10 < renaud> xgpt: it's a critical security patch you should install
12:10 < renaud> not really always critical or security, but you should install them
12:10 < sibiria> xgpt: "errata" is plural. collection of errors/problems known so far
12:11 < xgpt> So if I am not up and up on reading patch notes and such but just continually run pkg_add -U (or the correct command still learning) I'll be good? 
12:11 < sibiria> no. syspatch
12:11 < renaud> pkg_add won't install erratas, syspatch will
12:11 < xgpt> Syspatch? 
12:12 < renaud> man syspatch
12:12 < xgpt> Oh wow so there's pkg_add to update, and sysupgrade, and syspatch? 
12:12 < xgpt> What else? 
12:12 < sibiria> and it's pkg_add -u with lower-case u, to update your installed packages
12:12 < sibiria> xgpt: typically one does this:   pkg_add -u; fw_update; syspatch
12:12 < sibiria> it takes care of everything
12:12 < renaud> pkg_add installs/updates packages, sysupgrade upgrades between major version, syspatch installs patches
12:13 < renaud> and fw_update installs firmware updates
12:14 < sibiria> sysupgrade isn't something you will be doing regularly unless you're on snapshots. if you're not, you will be using this no more than once every 6 months
12:15 < xgpt> Snapshots? 
12:16 < sibiria> bleeding edge. running the very latest changes pushed out
12:16 < sibiria> not recommended unless you want to help dogfood openbsd
12:17 < xgpt> Oh no, and does that require a specific configuration to start running?
12:17 < xgpt> Like if I run sysupgrade too soon does it push me into bleeding edge? 
12:21 < brynet> no, if you're on 7.3 it will attempt to fetch the next release, 7.4 does not exist yet so it will error out.
12:21 < brynet> need to pass an option to force it to upgrade to a snapshot
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12:36 < xgpt> Seems straightforward 
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12:36 < xgpt> I assume it's been this way for years? Idk if anyone uses debian but when did that switch to use both apt-get but also apt? That seems odd 
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12:37 < sibiria> on debian i just do "apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade". as most other linuxes it coalesces repositories to the package system
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12:38 < sibiria> openbsd got syspatch in... i dunno... it's been more than a few years at least
12:38 < xgpt> What did y'all do before syspatch? 
12:38 < ludovicus> Haven't used debian in a while but I always thought apt is just a symlink to apt-get
12:39 < renaud> xgpt: manual updates from source
12:39 < sibiria> 2016 or 2017 was when openbsd got syspatch. before that manual updates for the system
12:40 < sibiria> which was relatively easy in my opinion. not exactly a huge mess
12:40 < sibiria> apply patch, make, install. not once did i have any problems with it
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12:42 < xgpt> But like why not just roll your own OS at that point ;) (kidding) but that seems more manual that I'd ever want to do, especially in prod 
12:42 < renaud> ludovicus: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 18752 Mar  6 13:26 /usr/bin/apt      -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 51592 Mar  6 13:26 /usr/bin/apt-get
12:42 < ludovicus> with syspatch I found myself upgrading sooner after release (am lazy yes)
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12:43 < sibiria> xgpt: it also helped that each patch always described how to apply, how to build and how to install the affected components
12:43 < sibiria> it wasn't graceful, but it was by far a much tidier experience than doing the same with anything linux
12:44 < sibiria> the instructions were copy-pastable command line history, more or less
12:44 < xgpt> Hey, not here because I'm looking for a new Linux style OS. just seems like more inefficient in a human-clock-cycles kind of way
12:44 < sibiria> it was. but that was then. syspatch is the way now since 6-7 years
12:44 < xgpt> I just had my first kid, I'm really starting to appreciate that sort of thing now lol
12:44 < sibiria> example: https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/patches/7.2/common/001_x509.patch.sig
12:44 < xgpt> Also I deeply question the sanity of Gentoo users (joke)
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12:45 < sibiria> the top shows the how-to. and that was all to do. copy-paste and it was done
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12:45 < xgpt> Yeah, but for each and every patch? 
12:46 < sibiria> such are the ways of manual work, but even doing 10 of them after a fresh install wasn't exactly an hour of work
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12:46 < sibiria> usually under one minute per patch
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12:47 < sibiria> inelegant but not really demanding
12:48 < sibiria> and it was only for the system patches, not for packages. packages were always a case of "pkg_add -u"
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12:49 < renaud> not exactly always, in the beginning there were simply no updates at all in packages
12:49 < sibiria> colloquial
12:50 < sibiria> there was a time when there were package updates, then a time when they went away entirely, and then they came back, and then they were cut down to 6 months
12:50 < sibiria> troublesome history
12:50 < renaud>  there was also a company giving updates
12:50 < xgpt> Are they still six months? 
12:51 < sibiria> they are currently 6 months only, yes. updates only for the current release
12:51 < sibiria> syspatches stretch to the previous release
12:51 < xgpt> Do they get security updates before then or just hard limit of six months? 
12:52 < sibiria> syspatches might also get the same 6 month treatment at some point. who knows
12:52 < sibiria> for now 12 months
12:52 < xgpt> Also the line between system vs packages I'm not quite getting. Are packages just treated as the ports tree or arch user repo? Where it's like a no guarantees type scenario? 
12:53 < sibiria> packages are the ports tree. there are no guarantees
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12:53 < xgpt> Oh. So the base openbsd installation is considered secure, but there's zero things to install after that when carry the same assurance? 
12:53 < renaud> this is not like linux. OpenBSD has a working base system without any "packages". Then you can add supplementary stuff as packages
12:54 < xgpt> I get that, is this the same kind of thing with freebsd? 
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12:55 < xgpt> Like I thought they (let's say bash) fork bash into their repo and then claim to have it be of equal care as anything else in their system
12:56 < moonshine> i'm not sure where you got that claim from
12:56 < sibiria> the base system is the only real priority of the developer team. ports are handled on a volunteer basis when time permits. sometimes the maintainers can be a bit slow with updating even very actively used packages, as they have no official priority in that sense
12:57 < renaud> well, there are devs which only do packages :)
12:58 < xgpt> Interesting
12:59 < xgpt> So I guess debian and the like have a bigger base and no external packages really
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13:01 < sibiria> they vet what goes into the package repo, too
13:01 < sibiria> debian doesn't have anything similar to AUR afaik
13:03 < moonshine> there are differing ideas of what "base" means
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13:07 < phy1729> Some ports get patches to add pledge/unveil, but they're primarily 3rd party projects/code
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13:40 < renaud> or you can fork a project to add pledge/unveil and then use that fork to create the package
13:40 < renaud> it's sometimes easier than to add patches
13:41 < thrig> or somethings (irssi) might be pretty hard to put a generic pledge/unveil on, and you can do better with a custom version (no config file writes for you, irssi)
13:41 < renaud> solene tried to add unveil/pledge to irssi
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13:41 < renaud> but, of course, it broke some features
13:42 < thrig> my irssi has pledge and unveil
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13:42 < renaud> I have added plegde/unveil to net/sniproxy through a fork because I also added some other non OpenBSD specific patches
13:42 < Nei> catgirl is easier to pledge
13:43 < renaud> although my fork should still compile fine on non-openbsd
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13:45 < xgpt> I guess I'm asking is the concept of "base" in openbsd similar to or the same as the concept of "base" in freebsd. And I think the closest thing to AUR in debian is PPA or third party repos
13:47 < phy1729> base is the file sets; packages are the results of building ports https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html#Intro
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13:51 < xgpt> I get that, was just curious about the concept of base file sets in openbsd and freebsd, like how can I peer into base and see what's included?
13:51 < xgpt> Like how can I list or preferably see on a website the packages that are base file included like openssh and tmux and such?
13:51 < xgpt> Also I noticed full vim is included on default install now? Is that considered base and not a package? Very cool
13:52 < phy1729> vi is in base; vim is not
13:52 < avemestr> xgpt: vim is definitely not included in base.
13:53 < renaud> and that's a good idea as vim sucks
13:53 < renaud> lscolor is also another bad idea
13:53 < phy1729> https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/src/distrib/sets/lists/   has what's in what set (mi is machine independent md is machine dependant)
13:53 < thrig> pretty sure vi base has at least one segfault lurking in it
13:53 < pardis> also https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/xenocara/distrib/sets/lists/ for the x* sets
13:54 < avemestr> xgpt: Aside from other subjective reasons, the license used on vim prevents it from ever becoming a part of base in both FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
13:54 < phy1729> There's also a github mirror https://github.com/openbsd/src (and for ports and xenocara and www)
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14:02 < byteskeptical> thrig: what makes you say that?
14:04 < Bradipo> thrig: If there is a segfault, I haven't seen it; I use vi pretty exclusively.
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14:05 < thrig> because vi crashed on me, and now I have a version with some abort code and debug build code
14:06 < sibiria> i've had vi segfault on me (years ago) when scrolling through a very large file that was suddenly pulled away by another process
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14:09 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/in-particular.txt
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14:10 < avemestr> Could make it into 7.4? 7.3 had a fix for ed! :-D
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14:12 < sibiria> better to let pico or nano make it into 7.4. the sadistic "only ed/vi" approach has exposed The People to enough suffering already
14:12 < pardis> we have mg too
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14:13 < thrig> and I've had to cleanup after folks using pico in production
14:13 < typicat> mg is well documented and pretty sweet overall if you're from emacs world
14:13 < pardis> I'm not from the emacs world, I just got sick of vi's modefulness one day so I started using mg instead
14:13 < thrig> I dropped emacs a few decades ago, those chords kill my fingers
14:14 < sibiria> (* vulcan death grip required; not included in package)
14:15 < mg> I'm pretty sweet overall, that's right
14:15 < mg> Don't know about well documented
14:15 < thrig> facebook and google probably have an extensive dossier
14:15 < typicat> aren't we all
14:16 < mg> thrig: fair point
14:17 < byteskeptical> wow someone already hooked up a LLM to their editor
14:17  * mg 's almost sentient
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14:30 < renaud> sibiria: please leave pico/nano out of base
14:30 < renaud> that's the first thing I delete after installing linux
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14:31 < Bradipo> It's indeed annoying that on some flavors of Linux it defaults to nano.
14:31 < Bradipo> First thing I do is install nvi and make it the default editor.
14:31 < renaud> "apt remove --purge nano" is enough
14:32 < renaud> but nano is GPL, so we are safe from seeing it in base
14:32 < thrig> I spent some time on an ubuntu trying to get vi, they had it symlinked to nano (ugh) and then vim with unicorn butt juice (color spam, ugh), ...
14:33 < renaud> it's not really symlinked, it's what they call "alternatives"
14:33 < thrig> whatever. it's a clown show
14:33 < renaud> indeed
14:33 < renaud> but uninstalling nano works
14:34 < renaud> 2 things to do after installing linux: remove nano, disable systemd-resolvd
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14:37 < pardis> don't have to do the second one if you install a distro without systemd
14:38 < phy1729> I don't really see how what you uninstall on Linux is pertinent to OpenBSD.
14:38 < renaud> because OpenBSD doesn't have all those crappy things you need to remove
14:39 < sibiria> activism will get you nowhere. fall in nanon-line immediately, citizen.
14:39 < sibiria> nano-line*
14:40 < renaud> nano = GPL :D
14:40 < phy1729> sibiria: complaining on IRC gets you nowhere. Espically in the wrong channel
14:40 < sibiria> phy1729: eh, what goes into base system of openbsd is definitely on topic here
14:41 < phy1729> Sure
14:41 < sibiria> renaud: DRM is also GPL
14:41 < renaud> I hope synapse 1.81.0 doesn't depend anymore on frozendict < 2.3.5
14:41 < pardis> sibiria: no it isn't
14:42 < pardis> it's dual GPL/X11 licensed, otherwise it couldn't go in base
14:42 < renaud> sibiria: you mean Digital Rights Management?
14:42 < renaud> :D
14:43 < dqk> no, direct rendering manager
14:43 < rsjw> https://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/DRM/
14:43 < dqk> the day the bad drm will have implementations under gpl it will not be a problem
14:44 < renaud> annoying to have 2 unrelated things called drm
14:44 < sibiria> we've had bits of GPL in base system for a long time
14:44 < sibiria> cvs is GPL, too
14:44 < pardis> yes, but the policy isn't no GPL in base, it's no *new* GPL things in base
14:44 < renaud> yes, because they are hard to remove
14:44 < dqk> isn't the problem gpl3 and not gpl2?
14:45 < pardis> new GPL2 things are also disallowed in base
14:45 < renaud> gpl >< bsd
14:45 < pardis> existing GPL2 things still get updates
14:45 < pardis> this is documented at https://www.openbsd.org/policy.html and has been for at least a decade
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14:57 < markand> sibiria, but OpenBSD has its own opencvs fork under ISC/BSD license
14:58 < pardis> opencvs isn't a fork, it's a reimplementation, and it's not finished
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14:58 < markand> yes a reimplementation
14:58 < pardis> and if it were a fork, it couldn't be relicensed, that's not how licences work
14:58 < pardis> /usr/bin/cvs is still GNU cvs in any case
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15:00 < rsjw> when I update my cvs working copy of src, I get lots of files reported with a ?, meaning that those files aren't in the repository (anymore). is there a way to get cvs to clean those up so my working copy is what I wanted to update it to? I didn't see anything in the "update" section of cvs(1) to do that
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15:02 < markand> the worse thing is when old software in GPL 2 changed to GPL 3 later on, that's also why macOS ships a very old GNU make version
15:03 < thrig> or a shellshock bash that their security system prevented changes to
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15:07 < eea> first `sysupgrade` of 7.2 production host to 7.3... 
15:07  * eea crosses fingers and toes
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15:08 < markand> done yesterday about at about 6 minutes :)
15:08 < xse> rsjw: mine prints something like "cvs server: regress/lib/libcrypto/bn/bn_mod_exp2_mont.c is no longer in the repository" and actually removes the file when i update for -current using the command on annoncvs faq for "Updating an Existing Tree"
15:09 < markand> this is why I love OpenBSD, upgraded are done right. upgrading my fedora laptop is such a pain. can't understand how about 20 years later they still figure out so complicated
15:09 < thrig> fedora wedged on me during an upgrade, so I stopped using it
15:10 < pardis> I spent an hour today uninstalling and reinstalling packages because for some reason pkg_add only installed half the files from the new versions of some packages
15:10 < pardis> upgrades aren't always painless
15:10 < lts> The ecosystem built around Linux does not exactly use "less complexity" as its mantra
15:10 < lts> s/Linux/Linux kernel/
15:10 < Bradipo> They certainly aren't painless.  I often ask myself, "What will break this upgrade of OpenBSD".
15:10 < Bradipo> bzflag, for example, no longer workds.  qcad segfaults.
15:11 < Bradipo> Things that once worked, no longer work.
15:11 < Bradipo> Mostly in ports.
15:12 < rsjw> xse: I wonder why mine is different then. I am using reposync to have a local repo and I used cvs -d /home/cvs -q up -Pd like the FAQ said, but I don't see why that would make such a difference
15:14 < xse> hm weird, i'm not too sure how cvs works, i'd say try out without reposync but tbh i have no idea if that would work
15:15 < Bradipo> reposync isn't relevant.
15:15 < Bradipo> reposync just provides a local copy of a repository.
15:15 < markand> Bradipo, strange, I experienced this much more in FreeBSD than in OpenBSD like having your touchpad/wifi no longer working on upgrade (excluding external ports broken as well), my GNOME desktop on OpenBSD 7.3 and most apps seem fine
15:15 < byteskeptical> pardis: sounds like a mirror issue
15:15 < Bradipo> Stuff in base is usually fine with OpenBSD, it's ports that often get a lot of breakage.
15:16 < pardis> byteskeptical: it's not a mirror issue, the packages were fetched and signatures verified fine
15:16 < pardis> and removing and reinstalling (from the same mirror) fixed the problem
15:16 < pardis> pkg_add just didn't put all of the files onto disk that it was supposed to
15:16 < eea> well, 9 minutes all in, sysupgrade/pkg_add =u/manual jenkins update
15:16 < eea> pretty painless
15:16 < eea> imho
15:17 < pardis> I suspect my almost-full /usr/local is the (possibly indirect) cause, but without having a reliable way to reproduce it I don't think a bug report would be helpful
15:20 < byteskeptical> eea: even more impressive given the changes that were made for this version
15:21 < eea> byteskeptical: yea... can say now tho, jenkins is definitely faster now
15:21 < eea> restarts and useage 
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15:26 < byteskeptical> yeah big improvements in performance all around
15:27 < morena> ye, I hear performance improvemnts every year
15:28 < morena> and still slow as turtle
15:28 < morena> but moving ;/
15:32 < byteskeptical> morena: turtles win races
15:32 < lts> Surely depends on your use case, but I can no longer tell from performance am I connecting to an obsd or linux box
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15:34 < thrig> but have we proven that Shirley depends on it?
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15:35 < morena> lucky I am 100% OpenBSD so can't compare ;/
15:36 < morena> even my usb sticks are ffs ;/
15:37 < byteskeptical> thrig: nice
15:37 < byteskeptical> morena: usb sticks <- well there's your problem
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15:42 < morena> they keep my config backup safe ;/
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16:18 < Bradipo> When I type commands in the terminal that are longer than the column size, I get a < at the end of the line...
16:18 < Bradipo> Is there any way to disable that?
16:19 < Bradipo> I've been looking through the man page, but I don't know that that "feature" is called.
16:19 < thrig> exec zsh
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16:20 < thrig> or, rewrite ksh to use a different line editing system
16:21 < Bradipo> Ok, well, in this case, it's bash.
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16:28 < rsjw> for ksh, reading the section "Interactive input line editing" you can disable the default emacs line editing to use "the normal tty driver", which doesn't have the < at the end, but that comes with other changes in functionality
16:28 < Bradipo> Let me check.
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16:30 < rsjw> bash doesn't have the < functionality by default on my system.
16:30 < Bradipo> Hmm, that's interesting.
16:31 < moonshine> 7.3 does feel faster, but i assumed that was a false perception on my part.
16:33 < lts> Absolutely does feel faster
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16:44 < thrig> hori scrollin' ksh - https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=167922572430330&w=2
16:47 < Bradipo> Actually, I don't mind it personally.
16:48 < Bradipo> I guess I thought the '<' column end character was common in all Bourne Shells.
16:48 < Bradipo> And I'm seeing it in bash, which doesn't make sense since apparently it's not supposed to be in bash.
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16:52 < sibiria> depends on the distribution. there are a handful of shell options. check what .profile/.bash_profile/etc does
16:53 < sibiria> .bashrc*
16:53 < sibiria> almost always a few set/shopt invocations
16:54 < thrig> or figure out how to start a clean shell without vendorisms or whatnot
16:55 < sibiria> and ksh does what it does because it's stuck in 20 years outdated "most people still use serial terminals" line editor thinking
16:55 < thrig> or, nobody has bothered to patch it to use ...
16:56 < sibiria> and why should anyone bother, when "most people still use serial terminals"
16:57 < Bradipo> Well, again, I don't actually mind it per se in ksh for interactive.
16:57 < Bradipo> Where I'm having the problem is in some pexpect scripts that seem to be getting < in the middle of the output.
16:57 < Bradipo> Exactly at 70 characters. Which suggests to me some kind of COLUMN thing.
16:58 < Bradipo> But as has been mentioned, bash doesn't have that "feature".
16:58 < thrig> expect could run sh which has less fancy things to get in the way of screen scraping
16:58 < Bradipo> Yep.
16:59 < Bradipo> What's odd is that the '<' doesn't always show up.
16:59 < Bradipo> If it were consistent, I could reproduce it and figure out what's causing it. :-)
17:00 < sibiria> ksh is definitely aware of terminal dimensions right when it's started
17:00 < sibiria> it doesn't care much about updates
17:00 < sibiria> shrinking terminal after launching ksh gets messy when you do long inputs
17:01 < Bradipo> Well, I notice that "stty -a" shows an updated column/row when I resize things.
17:01 < Bradipo> Though, maybe that's just the tty and not necessarily KSH.
17:02 < Bradipo> Yeah, you're right, if I resize, it doesn't seem to notice until the _next_ command.
17:02 < pardis> if this is being run from pexpect, isn't that setting up a pty of some sort? can you just tell it the terminal is 5000 characters wide or something?
17:03 < thrig> or again run sh, as you probably don't need anything fancy, and ...
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17:03 < Bradipo> Yeah, I thought I had done that already.  Again, if it were a pty setting, I would expect the problem to happen every time, not just randomly.
17:03 < Bradipo> Unfortunately, I didn't write a lot of this, I've inherited it. :-)
17:03 < Bradipo> And actually, I would gladly replace bash with sh, but there are dependencies on bash unfortunately.
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17:07 < sibiria> but you can sh -c 'fghdfhgfhsdgs'
17:07 < sibiria> and such
17:07 < sibiria> or sh script.sh, which runs expect etc.
17:08 < xgpt> @sibiria: I think we're at a place where we need pico/nano/vi/vim by default (licensing appropriate for versions) I'll never understand why it's either/or. 
17:09 < Bradipo> How would we "be at a place where we need pico/nano/vim" by default?
17:09 < Bradipo> What pressing need for pico/nano/vim is there?
17:09 < Bradipo> They exist in ports, right?
17:09 < phy1729> Also did you see https://www.openbsd.org/policy.html
17:09 < martian67> openbsd HAS vi by default
17:10 < martian67> also mg, a small emacs clone
17:10 < thrig> it's an ex-vi that vimmers hate and wonder why it doesn't vim
17:10 < pardis> the obsession about what is in base and what is not is a bit silly
17:10 < pardis> if you want something that isn't in base, that is what pkg_add is for
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17:11 < sibiria> pardis: i think you'd understand the obsession if something that you prefer, which is currently in base, was removed
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17:12 < pardis> not really
17:12 < pardis> I prefer lots of things that I pkg_add
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17:14 < sibiria> plenty of stuff went into base not because anything in base suddenly needed it, but because it was convenient and/or used by enough people to warrant it as a sensible inclusion
17:15 < pardis> that doesn't really have anything to do with what I said
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17:30 < zwr> anyone having extreme desync with mpv after upgrading to 7.3? any video I play freezes instantly while mpv's desync counter grows
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17:31 < zwr> hmm, seems to have something with audio, if I turn off audio in mpv, it fixes itself
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17:32 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: I was running into something similar on my custom PS1
17:32 < Bradipo> With bash?
17:32 < byteskeptical> ksh
17:32 < zwr> restarting sndiod fixed it, I guess there's a bug hiding somewhere in there...
17:32 < byteskeptical> in getting < as part of some output
17:33 < Bradipo> Yeah, the trouble is, I can never see it happen when I run it, only when it runs "automated".
17:33 < Bradipo> For now, I'm just going to add additional debug output so I can see what the environment is.
17:34 < thrig> (and the pty settings)
17:34 < byteskeptical> perhaps because you the env is different
17:34 < Bradipo> The script already sets the columns to 256, and none of the commands being sent are more than 160 in length anyway.
17:34 < Bradipo> Yes, there's also that possibility.
17:34 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: that's what played around with forever
17:34 < byteskeptical> turns out ksh may count certain characters if not escaped properly
17:35 < Bradipo> But, if it were an "environment" thing, I would think that it happens *every* time, not just occasionally.
17:35 < byteskeptical> depends on what characters are being printed
17:35 < Bradipo> So yeah, that's another possibility I suppose.
17:35 < Bradipo> I had thought that perhaps this could be a factor.
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17:35 < Bradipo> But all the characters are ASCII.
17:36 < Bradipo> But maybe some strange combination if triggering something.
17:36 < Bradipo> There are some random characters in file paths made with mkstemp
17:36 < byteskeptical> \\[\e[34m\\] <- an example of the needed escaping to avoid such things
17:36 < Bradipo> Yeah, I've tried to get rid of all escape characters.  PS1 is being set to nothing fancy.
17:37 < byteskeptical> no I mean your script output
17:37 < Bradipo> Oh, well, I also control what the script outputs.
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17:40 < rsjw> zwr: I've had that problem for a while now I forget whether it started in 7.0 or 7.1, but it did work in 6.9. I'm getting extreme stuttering and dropping about half the frames according to youtube's "stats for nerds". also https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=166642606007505&w=2
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17:40 < thrig> maybe your system has a lisp
17:40 < Bradipo> Yeah, I've wondered that too.
17:40 < Bradipo> Some kind of weird hiccup.
17:41 < rsjw> restarting sndiod doesn't fix it for me though, so maybe it's something different
17:41 < byteskeptical> zwr: what are you using for your VO
17:42 < zwr> byteskeptical: gpu. before restarting with sndiod, I tried --no-config (which also defaults to gpu) so I don't think it was my config
17:42 < zwr> s/with//
17:44 < byteskeptical> zwr: try the new gpu-next
17:45 < zwr> if the issue manifests itself again I'll give it a try
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17:50 < byteskeptical> for those that care: https://clbin.com/xWrd0
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18:12 < Bradipo> byteskeptical: Wow, that's a lot of configuration.
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18:29 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: makes the pixels pretty
18:29 < byteskeptical> if anyone wants a copy of the shaders just let me know
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18:36 < morena> somebody mentioned vi, is there a way to make backspace delete char like in anything else in the world or not in this vi?
18:37 < byteskeptical> keysym BackSpace = Delete <- .xmodmaprc?
18:38 < morena> oh there is delete which works
18:38 < morena> obviously make them both the same would be ...
18:39 < apotheon> morena: What vi are you using?
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18:39 < morena> I don't
18:39 < morena> but meant from the base
18:39 < morena> as that is probably the most annoying thing there for me
18:40 < apotheon> What?
18:40 < morena> that backspace does not delete previous char
18:40 < apotheon> Are you using Vim, or nvi, or NeoVim, or Elvis, or what?
18:40 < uwharrie> it does here
18:40 < morena>  /usr/bin/vi
18:40 < apotheon> on what OS
18:40 < morena> windows? ;/
18:41 < thrig> .oO( neogeo vim )
18:41 < apotheon> wtf
18:41 < apotheon> Okay, I won't help you, then.
18:41 < apotheon> You can't give a fucking meaningful answer when I'm asking for info to help you.  Are you trolling?
18:41 < morena> or you?
18:41 < byteskeptical> apotheon: I think they are just messing with you he's talking about nvi
18:41 < morena> are we in #openbsd?
18:41 < skydoge> FREE EPONY!!!
18:42 < apotheon> Oh, shit, sorry.
18:42 < byteskeptical> or the fork of in base
18:42 < morena> ;/
18:42 < apotheon> I thought I was in a different channel.
18:42 < apotheon> fuck
18:42 < skydoge> habbens
18:42 < apotheon> god damn it, sorry
18:42 < byteskeptical> lol that's called playing ones self
18:42 < morena> can't! there is only OpenBSD!
18:42 < apotheon> har
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18:43 < apotheon> Hmm.  I don't seem to have any special config for nvi.
18:44 < apotheon> . . . so it seems like backspace working should be . . . default?
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18:44 < thrig> the problem statement remains unclear
18:45 < dqk> it depends on what escape sequence your backspace key is sending
18:45 < byteskeptical> ^
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18:45 < apotheon> Oh, wait, no, I just never use Backspace in vi, so I didn't notice Backspace doesn't work.
18:45 < apotheon> interesting
18:46 < thrig> maybe define "doesn't work"
18:46 < apotheon> In insert mode, if I type "one two three" then start hitting Backspace, it just moves left, rather than deleting things.
18:46 < lts> Sounds like vi
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18:46 < apotheon> I'd guess that's what morena experiences.
18:46 < apotheon> lts: I suppose.
18:46 < thrig> ah! now I can link https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/710031/nvi-erase-in-ex-mode
18:46 < uwharrie> it's removing the characters, it's just not redrawing the screen between every key press
18:46 < byteskeptical> https://clbin.com/NcLjt
18:47 < byteskeptical> uwharrie: yup
18:47 < apotheon> uwharrie: Oh, is it?  That makes sense.
18:47 < dqk> oh
18:47 < morena> not all
18:47 < lts> But why
18:47 < apotheon> tested and confirmed
18:47 < dqk> so it works the way it's intended then
18:47 < morena> while you hit esc, then it will not continue to removing them even in insert mode
18:47 < dqk> if you go back to normal mode you'll see the character disappear
18:47 < uwharrie> likely because on a slow connection it'd induce a lot of unnecessary blinking
18:48 < apotheon> morena: In command mode, you're not supposed to be able to use insert mode means of changing text.
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18:48 < dqk> it's surprising the first time compared to vim but it's the way vi display things
18:48 < apotheon> . . . unless you're talking about not being able to use Backspace to remove characters after re-entering insert mode.
18:48 < morena> apotheon: yes, but then again in insert mode, it will not delete char 
18:49 < morena> ye that
18:49 < uwharrie> that's a vim thing
18:49 < morena> I just asked, never really care, if there is some setting for that or it's just that version of vi
18:49 < dqk> if you're typing "123", use backspace, type "4" and then go back to normal mode you'll see "124"
18:50 < apotheon> dqk: but entering insert mode again doesn't allow using Backspace to delete more text
18:50 < apotheon> dqk: That's apparently what morena means.
18:50 < dqk> i don't remember seeing something to force it to refresh the screen as soon as you're using backspace but you might be able to do it by mapping a key
18:51 < apotheon> also, "normal mode" is a Vim-ism
18:51 < dqk> i do have a hard time to understand
18:51 < apotheon> Vim renames command mode as normal mode, and renames ex mode as command mode
18:51 < apotheon> .
18:52 < dqk> it's often "easier" to talk about it this way but yes, you're right about that
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18:52 < uwharrie> once text has been added to the buffer, the traditional vi way to remove it is via c, d, or x
18:52 < apotheon> maybe in part because of some misguided attempt to "teach" people to use command mode as default, and an even more misguided attempt to make ex mode's name more approachable and/or be somehow more "correct" due to the fact Vim doesn't have ex itself
18:53 < apotheon> uwharrie: or "R" or "r" or some other stuff, of course
18:53 < dqk> oh i understand what you're saying now, it's about not being able to erase characters not in the current edit session
18:53 < apotheon> :%s/offensive string//g
18:54 < moviuro> that 7.3 upgrade was uneventful, congrats devs!
18:54 < lts> Best praise: "It's boring"
18:55 < uwharrie> and thank you early adopters!
18:55 < moviuro> at least, this upgrade didn't dumb down an important piece of software needed for my router (looking at you dhclient(8))
18:55 < thrig> until some boring company undermines your house
18:55 < uwharrie> dhclient changed?
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18:56 < moviuro> in 7.2 yes, it was dumbed down to dhcpleased(8), dropping support for lots of DHCP options (incl. authentication)
18:57 < uwharrie> oh, that. dhclient was still there and unchanged. it was just no longer the default method of performing DHCP
18:57 < sibiria> it's not there anymore. it's in packages though
18:58 < moviuro> I switched to dhcpcd(8) though, as it handles both IPv4 and IPv6 at the same time
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19:12 < apotheon> The most eventful part of upgrades here is usually backups.
19:13 < apotheon> Fuck, I just realized I have a Linux system I need to reconfigure, and I haven't touched it in six months, so I don't remember how all the fucking horrific complexity of contemporary Linux network config works.
19:13 < lts> I actually got a broken service (salt_master) this time
19:14 < apotheon> I wish I could just do everything for which I occasionally need a Linux system on OpenBSD instead, and be done with that shitshow.
19:14 < thrig> I have an alpine virt, much neglected
19:14 < thrig> maybe I should see if it still boots on 7.3?
19:17 < apotheon> A virtual machine sadly won't suit my needs, which include stuff like using a Linux machine to install a new OS on a smartphone.
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19:55 < cation> <lts> I actually got a broken service (salt_master) this time
19:56 < cation> wpa_supplicant failed to start on the first boot after the upgrade (something to do with a library), which was scary since I need it to work for me to access the internet... :) thankfully it started fine manually and started automatically after a second reboot
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21:48 < yang2> Hello is anyone here managing the OpenBSD user groups listing?
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21:49 < thrig> the what now
21:50 < jf> yang2 you probably want tj@ https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/www/groups.html
21:51 < yang2> I have a question regarding adding the group :)
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21:58 < yang2> jf: is "tj" on IRC ?
21:59  * jf I .. don't know. i would try the misc mailing list (misc@openbsd.org) and/or tj (who I guess is tj@openbsd.org)
21:59 < yang2> okay thanks
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22:23 < quinq> wow
22:23 < quinq> clang-13 seems to be *extremely* slow on AMD GX-412TC SOC
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22:25 < quinq> (clang++)
22:25 < Lucas6023> moar like clang--
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22:25 < pony> more like clangponypony
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23:03 < oldlaptop> quinq: clang is big, and a 1ghz jaguar isn't very fast
23:03 < thrig> is a 1ghz jaguar even street legal
23:04 -!- elastic_dog [~elastic_d@2a01:118f:620:5c00:5b5c:587d:9e9e:d473] has joined #openbsd
23:04 < oldlaptop> I don't think a jaguar's pistons are supposed to oscillate at 1ghz, that might be bad
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23:14 < meena> yeah, i think that might cause the motor to disintegrate in very interesting and dangerous ways
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23:19 < a1fa> anyone use scrcpy on OpenBSD?
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23:24 < housemate> hello, my relayd is crashing periodically and it is really driving me bonkers...
23:24 < housemate> this is the message which I am seeing in the messages file in /var/log ...
23:24 < housemate> config_setrelay: fd passing failed for `proxy_tls': Too many open files
23:24 < housemate> does anybody know how I would go about resolving this error..?
23:25 < mischief> increase open file limit for the login class
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23:27 < jf> yang2 .. i don't think your emails to misc@ had content?
23:28 < housemate> mischief, how do I do this..?
23:29 < housemate> which file is this specified in..?
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23:30 < meena> https://man.openbsd.org/login.conf.5
23:30  * jf https://man.openbsd.org/login.conf
23:30 < jf> lol. beat me to it!
23:30 < housemate> thanks...
23:31 < yang2> jf: it was already processed, thanks
23:31 < jf> yang2 good! 
23:31 < jf> Oh, that was the format for the group... Now I understand.
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23:34 < housemate> in the daemon class, right?
23:34 < housemate> and what should I set it to..?
23:34 < housemate> 2048..?
23:35 < jf> housemate in the class of the user you want to change._relayd is not in a specific class by default
23:35 < housemate> I see...
23:35 < jf> (look in /etc/master.password)
23:36 < jf> i made a class for relayed (in /etc/login.conf that had what I needed and then ":tc=daemon:" at the end to inherit from daemon. does that approach make sense?
23:37 < mischief> probably some function of the number of connections you typically have to relayd, like *2
23:39 < jf> like this: https://clbin.com/nO9Ph
23:39 < jf> then 
23:40 < jf> "cap_mkdb /etc/login.conf" to remake the login conf db
23:40 < housemate> okay well from what I am able to tell from what I see in /etc/rc.d/relayd it seems that it is this daemon is started by root, so will not editing the number of allowed open files in the daemon class work?
23:40 < housemate> yes, I see...
23:40 < jf> because _relayd is not in a class, you would need to change the default class settings
23:41 < jf> with that relayd entry in login.conf, i have "_relayd:*:89:89:relayd:0:0:Relay Daemon:/var/empty:/sbin/nologin" in /etc/master.password
23:41 < mischief> dont remake the db if you didnt already have one
23:41 < jf> and then remake the pwd db - only when the relayd entry is in the login.conf: "pwd_mkdb -p /etc/master.passwd"
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23:42 < housemate> but it would, from my understanding be included in the default class as it is seemingly being started by root...
23:42 < housemate> hmm
23:42 < housemate> lol
23:42 < jf> so login.conf first (and remake with cap_mkdb) followed by master.passwd second (and remake pwd_mkdb)
23:42 < housemate> I mean the daemon class...
23:42 < housemate> not default...
23:43 < jf> I *think* your / default entry for relayd is "_relayd:*:89:89::0:0:Relay Daemon:/var/empty:/sbin/nologin" in /etc/master.password
23:43 < jf> note the :: there where my entry has :relayd:. relayd is started by root then drops privs down to the _relayd user
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23:44 < jf> if you do "ps axuw | egrep relayd" you will see one root process and some number of _relayd processes
23:44 < housemate> I see...
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23:48 < epony> is that you, horseface ;-)
23:48 < housemate> haha yes!
23:48 < housemate> lol
23:48 < housemate> hi epony 
23:48 < epony> greetings
23:48 < housemate> long time...
23:48 < pony> hi
23:48 < epony> cheers
23:48 < housemate> I've been doing laps around the country in which I live...
23:48 < epony> which is Australia
23:49 < phy1729> Take it elsewhere please
23:49 < housemate> rofl, hi pony.
23:49 < pony> a horseface, an epony, and a pony walk into a bar
23:49 < housemate> yes, and sure, sorry. phy1729.
23:49 < housemate> lol
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23:55 < housemate> after I have made the required changes in the /etc/login.conf file, how do I reload the configuration for rc to realise them?
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 12 00:00:10 2023