--- Log opened Sun Apr 16 00:00:50 2023
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00:59 < rsjw> nij-: maybe your network interface isn't working. are you using wireless? if so, try wired
00:59 < thrig> ping: Warning: wired.com has multiple addresses; using 151.101.130.194
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01:03 < rsjw> nij-: oh it's a vm. well... maybe make sure whatever vm connection to the host system you have is set up correctly
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01:21 < nij-> Hmm where can I download installer with sets included?
01:21 < nij-> I'm following one of the rare (if not the only) tutorial which teaches how to install openbsd on a VM over ARM64 M2.
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01:23 < nij-> So my options seem very limited..
01:24 < nij-> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Download : "A disk image that can be written to a USB flash drive or similar device. Includes the file sets." lemme try now!
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01:28 < nij-> Same questions asked: Should I pick disk this time?
01:28 < nij-> >> Location of sets? (disk http nfs or 'done') [http] 
01:28 < rsjw> yes
01:28 < nij-> If so, with the default answers, I got:
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01:28 < nij-> Pathname to the sets? (or 'done') [7.3/arm64]  \\ The directory '7.3/arm64' does not exist.
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01:29 < rsjw> did it ask you whether you had to mount the disk first?
01:29 < nij-> Oh yes. I said yes to that too.
01:30 < rsjw> are you sure you selected the right disk to mount?
01:30 < pardis> the phrasing of that question is to ask if the disk is already mounted
01:30 < pardis> did you mount the disk before telling it the disk is mounted?
01:31 < nij-> Hmm I'm not sure @@
01:32 < rsjw> the openbsd installer has a weird quirk where you have to mount the disk to see the data on it, even though the installer that is already running is data that is stored on the disk
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01:33 < nij-> Uh hmm lemme try other options
01:33 < nij-> Available disks are: sd0 sd1. I tried sd1.. so now sd0.
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01:34 < rsjw> type ? and it'll give you the labels for the disks and you won't have to guess
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01:34 < pardis> it's not a weird quirk, there is simply no need for that disk to be mounted at any point in a normal installation, unless you need access to the sets on it
01:35 < nij-> Ok.. so available disks are sd0 and sd1.
01:35 < nij-> sd1 does not have a FS, rejected.
01:35 < nij-> sd0 has two paritions "a" and "i". The first is busy.
01:35 < nij-> So that leaves me sd0/i as an option..
01:36 < nij-> https://bpa.st/MYKSQ
01:36 < nij-> (Btw thanks for your help :D I can't wait to put my hands on openbsd)
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01:37 < pardis> have you tried sd0a?
01:38 < pardis> alternatively, if the sets are on sd0a and it's mounted, have you tried pointing it to a path under that mount point?
01:38 < pardis> you can also escape to a shell at any point with !, if you want to inspect things yourself
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01:38 < nij-> sd0/a is "busy"
01:39 < nij-> Oh! I can get access to the shell with "!"? Lemme try that now.
01:40 < nij-> Being used to linux, there's not even a "find" command here.. how do I even find where the sets are?
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01:40 < rsjw> cd /mnt; ls
01:42 < nij-> ls -al ;; => only "." and ".."
01:42 < rsjw> should be under /mnt/7.3/arm64
01:42 < rsjw> I think
01:42 < nij-> There's nothing under /mnt..
01:43 < rsjw> then the partition is not mounted
01:43 < pardis> that's not necessarily true
01:43 < pardis> type 'mount' to see what is mounted and where
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01:43 < nij-> Haha lsblk doesn't work either.. openbsd has its own sets of cmds!
01:44 < nij-> mount: https://bpa.st/JISNQ
01:44 < pardis> you are running the installer kernel at the moment, which has a slimmed-down set of commands compared to a full OpenBSD installation
01:44 < nij-> ah got it
01:44 < rsjw> sysctl hw.disknames shows the available disks, disklabel sd0 shows the partitions of sd0, mount mounts file systems
01:44 < nij-> maybe it's in sd1
01:44 < nij-> But sd1 has no FS, so it was rejected.
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01:44 < nij-> Hmm
01:44 < pardis> which disk did you choose to install to?
01:45 < pardis> it looks like that was sd0, in which case you obviously can't get the sets from there
01:45 < pardis> if the sets *were* on sd0 and you told it to install to sd0, the sets are now gone
01:45 < nij-> @@ weird.. oh
01:45 < nij-> Can I just reboot the VM and do it again?
01:46 < nij-> Or the iso is corrupted? (I'm noobie on such low level stuff.)
01:47 < pardis> I don't know, that depends on how you booted the VM
01:47 < rsjw> you could try it and see. if you corrupted the install media, just re-download it
01:47 < pardis> 'dmesg | grep ^sd' might be illuminating as to which disk is which
01:48 < nij-> Yeah the way I did doesn't work this time. Lemme redownload it. THanks for your patience!
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01:51 < nij-> Done. This time I jumped directly into the shell without messing it up.
01:51 < nij-> # mount ====> /dev/rd0a on / type ffs (local)    
01:51 < nij-> There's nothing else.
01:51 < rsjw> as expected
01:53 < nij-> What should I try now..? `mount sd0a /mnt/`?
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01:54 < pardis> try to identify which disk is which, as I suggested with that dmesg command
01:54 < pardis> or the disklabel output might also help
01:54 < pardis> then you can install to the correct disk (which I suspect is sd1)
01:55 < nij-> https://bpa.st/AYAGW
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01:55 < pardis> right, so sd0 is the installation medium and sd1 is the disk you want to install to, judging by those sizes
01:56 < pardis> you can try mounting sd0 to check if the sets are there, but I doubt they are
01:56 < nij-> Reasonable..
01:57 < nij-> How.. to mount sd0? I don't see it under /dev/sd0..
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01:58 < rsjw> you don't mount sd0, you mount one of the partitions in it. run disklabel sd0 to see what they are
01:59 < nij-> disklabel sd0 => disklabel: /dev/rsd0: No such file or directory
01:59 < rsjw> ah maybe you have to MAKEDEV the device first
02:00 < pardis> cd /dev; sh MAKEDEV sd0
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02:01 < nij-> ,ping
02:03 < nij-> Connection lost.
02:03 < nij-> disklabel sd0 => disklabel: /dev/rsd0: No such file or directory
02:03 < rsjw> cd /dev; sh MAKEDEV all
02:04 < pardis> you probably don't want all
02:04 < pardis> just do sd0
02:04 < rsjw> will that make rsd0?
02:04 < pardis> the ramdisk filesystem is quite space-constrained
02:04 < pardis> yes
02:04 < pardis> but 'sh MAKEDEV all' might not, if it fills up the filesystem before it gets that far
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02:05 < nij-> Did it for ALL..https://bpa.st/S7LZA
02:05 < pardis> well, no actually, it won't make rsd0 because rsd0 isn't supposed to exist
02:05 < pardis> but it will make rsd0a, rsd0b, etc.
02:05 < rsjw> right, ok
02:06 < nij-> Is there a detailed manual on this? I feel like this is taking much of your time and attention T_T
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02:06 < nij-> (sorry)
02:06 < nij-> The installation guide doesn't tell me about this: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html
02:07 < rsjw> https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.3/arm64/INSTALL.arm64
02:07 < pardis> that's because you don't normally need to do this
02:07 < rsjw> (assuming it's arm64)
02:07 < pardis> what you're doing here is working out if you've clobbered the installation media
02:07 < nij-> Hmmm I wonder what happened so that I should do this..
02:08 < pardis> what happened is that you chose to install to the disk with the sets on it
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02:09 < nij-> Great! Thanks for the link. It seems longer than chewable, and I need to leave in 20 min. I will do that later. Thanks for all of your help!
02:09 < nij-> (I'll be back :D)
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02:15 < nij-> Hmm btw, that file doesn't have MAKEDEV included too.
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02:16 < nij-> Seems it may be easier to install the sets with http, right?
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02:18 < rsjw> I'd juse tell the installer that the disk isn't mounted yet, press enter on the directory, and install the sets
02:18 < rsjw> *just
02:19 < rsjw> which install file sis you download?
02:19 < nij-> Lemme try that and if not work I gotta go this time.
02:19 < rsjw> which install file did you download?
02:20 < nij-> Which disk is the root disk?
02:20 < rsjw> that's what you want to install to, i.e. where the root directory / will end up. so for you it's sd1
02:20 < nij-> Ah! I did this step wrong last time
02:22 < nij-> Ok.. gotta go. This time /mnt has home tmp var and usr.. but I didn't see 7.3.
02:22 < nij-> Thank you! Be back later.
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04:59 < System_Unkown> 7.3 upgrade worked well.
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05:05 < nij-> o/ I'm back.. if anyone can help..
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09:10 < lavaball> can i block a gre tunnel with pf?
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09:19 < byteskeptical> lavaball: net.inet.ipsec.filtertunnel
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09:20 < byteskeptical> lavaball: sorry did mean to paste that
09:21 < byteskeptical> you should be able to if encapsulated with something like ipsec
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09:26 < byteskeptical> this was the sysctl i was looking for net.inet.gre.allow
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09:38 < lavaball> yeah, but i can't bind it to an ip address then. this just lets any gre tunnel connect.
09:40 < lavaball> there are tunnels without an endpoint. so multiple tunnels can connect to the same thing. anyway, it is how it is. great for desktop, not so good for servers.
09:42 < byteskeptical> well it's hard to say since there are quite a few ways you can set things up 
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09:43 < byteskeptical> I think this part of the man page may be relavent:
09:43 < byteskeptical> For correct operation, encapsulated traffic must not be routed over the interface itself. This can be implemented by adding a distinct or a more specific route to the tunnel destination than the hosts or networks routed via the tunnel interface. Alternatively, the tunnel traffic may be configured in a separate routing table to the encapsulated traffic.
09:44 < byteskeptical> try using a vlan
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09:46 < lavaball> hm? what do you think my problem is?
09:46 < lavaball> gre is running. everything is fine. i was just wondering why i never had to put anythign into pf.
09:47 < lavaball> while back in my linux days i had to allow it specifically in the tables.
09:47 < lavaball> that's al.
09:47 < lavaball> i'm moving everythign to wireguard anyway, which i have to allow in pf. that's how i noticed the whole thing actually.
09:48 < lavaball> nonetheless, the gre tunnel didn't disappoint. i hope it stays with us.
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09:52 < byteskeptical> I thought you were trying to use filter rules in pf for your gre tunnel and they were not working but when you said it wasn't binding to an ip I then thought you didn't have a tunnel up
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10:27 < lavaball> byteskeptical, then i apologize for being unclear. thanks for trying to help.
10:28 < byteskeptical> it's all gravy, wireguard should be a comparibly easier setup
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10:33 < lavaball> doesn't make much difference actually. with gre you have the longer ifconfig line, with wireguard you ahve to make the keys. and we are doing that the cool way with ifconfig of course.
10:34 < lavaball> routing wise it's the same. it's another device, you set the default routing for that table, you hit it with pf. which is actually easier than with linux, there you have to do it with ip ru. 
10:34 < byteskeptical> well gre doesn't come with encryption out of the box at all I believe
10:34 < lavaball> if i wanted encryption i wouldn't have used gre.
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10:34 < byteskeptical> agreed routing is the same
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10:34 < lavaball> but if you want steam to believe you are somewhere else gre is fine. 
10:35 < lavaball> also for playing games, though i doubt the encryption makes much of a difference these days.
10:35 < byteskeptical> well it can be used just that it's not included as part of the protocol
10:35 < byteskeptical> up to you not judging one way or another
10:36 < lavaball> oh, i have a huge dick. i never feel attacked or offended.
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10:36 < byteskeptical> in that case your doing it all wrong
10:37 < lavaball> usually. yes.
10:38 < lavaball> is the topic polic around?
10:39 < lavaball> e
10:39 < lavaball> guess not. so let me give you a quick story out of my life. yesterday i watched some hero show, where they said record your memories. the more painful the better. and then i started thinking. i still am. i can't come up with anything. my life really is a fantasy camp. 
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16:40 < Xeroine> Hey,  I know there's u-boot that comes by default on OpenBSD arm64 but would it be problematic in the long term to use EDK2 instead? Would updates cause u-boot to be updated/installed in the boot partition? I saw USB booting being recommended when using EDK2 as the simplest approach but I'd rather have them both on the microsd card.  I'm on the rpi 4b by the way.
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16:48 < xse> Xeroine: the i partition u-boot lives on is not mounted by default i'm not sure how it would even update. Don't know much about everything on the sd card what i did is put everything on an ssd and use the sd card for the pftf efi thing that way i have the two methods available to boot from
16:49 < Xeroine> ah ok,  good to know,  thanks
16:49 < Xeroine> I assumed it would be mounted
16:49 < xse> the default u-boot doesn't give you config.txt control like overclock settings don't work, it also results in somewhat poor performances compared to the efi firmware thing, more or less 2x difference on a kernel build
16:50 < Voyager_MP> Any recomentions for making this more robust ? ifconfig iwx0 | grep ieee | awk -F \% '{print $1}' | awk '{print $NF}'
16:51 < xse> the efi thing makes you loose the bwfm0 wifi thing, you can add a link to get it back but it may still have poor performance, tradeoffs everywhere + try and error
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16:52 < holsta> Voyager_MP: When do you see failures?
16:54 < Voyager_MP> sometimes it returns wpaprotos with this: ifconfig ${_nic[1]} | awk '/ieee80211:/ { print "直" $3 "(" $10 ")"}' | tail -n 1
16:54 < Voyager_MP> therefor I rewrote this line to the first one 
16:54 < thrig> ifconfig iwx0 | perl -nle '/(?a)ieee.*\s(\d+)%\s/ && print $1'  is a few less forks
16:55 < Voyager_MP> @thrig looking good, will give it a try 
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17:45 < hussein1> i added a custom ca to some installs by appending it to cert.pem, and now it's expired. i can either mess about removing it from cert.pem, or just ignore it and append a newer one
17:45 < hussein1> is there another way to add a ca that doesn't involve appending it to cert.pem?
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17:46 < thrig> a directory is often supported in addition to some file
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17:48 < hussein1> also, i can find out by trying it, but how does the installer handle CA updates? I'm pretty sure I've gone through a few updates and it's not overwritten my CA, but that's presumably because there haven't been any changes to cert.pem. if there were, am I right in thinking it would overwrite my appended cert? and I'd have to append it again?
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17:54 < thrig> if only there were configuration management to ensure that particular lines exist in particular files (or there's that directory thing ...)
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18:06 < hussein1> what *is* the directory? I originally tried placing the CA in /etc/ssl, that didn't work, so I tried to find documentation, failed, and resorted to the append method, which was this SA answer https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/513384/how-to-add-ca-cert-to-openbsd-6-4
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18:11 < jca> hussein1: I'm not sure LibreSSL as provided with OpenBSD can be taught to handle a directory scheme (but I could very well be wrong)
18:12 < lts> AFAIK only append to file works. :-(
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18:13 < jca> hussein1: cert.pem should be handled by sysmerge.  so if you do local modifications to your cert.pem you have to merge the updates manually.
18:20 < thrig> SSL_CTX_load_verify_locations(3) comes to mind
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19:31 < vortexx> pardis: I've tested upgrading python from 3.9 to 3.10 going from 7.2 to 7.3 again, after seeing some misc@ traffic over "7.3: speetest doesn't work". Using pkg_add -uz instead of -u handles python properly. Just need to run pkg_delete -a afterwards to clean out 3.9
19:32 < quinq> In ksh, with file completion, is there a way to force complete to the first matching files, instead of blocking until the last commont pattern?
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19:40 < quinq> The man-page doesn't seem to say anything about that :/
19:41 < quinq> There's expand-file though, not exactly that, but can substite partly :)
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19:45 < thrig> jca: LibreSSL can do a directory of certificates, if the software supports that. gemini://thrig.me/tech/ssl/hashdir.gmi
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19:45 < jmcunx> quinq: I do not know what you want, but I found this in google - https://misc.openbsd.narkive.com/eB10i1VO/ksh-equivalent-to-shell-expand-line
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19:47 < jca> thrig: yeah, but that doesn't really work system-wide.
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19:48 < thrig> nothing works system wide. it depends on what calls the software makes.
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19:50 < quinq> jmcunx, with two files, "fooa" and "foob", typing "f^I" will complete until "foo", from there I'd like to complete to "fooa"
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19:53 < jmcunx> I know of nothing like that in ksh if I understand what you want
19:55 < quinq> noted
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20:04 < moviuro> hello, a new disk I'm about to install says on the tin: Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical (from smartctl(8)), is there something special I need to tell disklabel(8) before I automatically format that disk? (I can't find anything related to sector size in disklabel(8))
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20:13 < sibiria> moviuro: nope
20:13 < sibiria> everything is LBA these days
20:13 < sibiria> you don't need to care about cylinders, heads and sectors etc.
20:14 < pardis> being LBA doesn't really mean anything, some filesystems (notably zfs) benefit from knowing the physical sector size
20:14 < pardis> but as far as I know there is no such benefit with ffs
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20:18 < thrig> ffs being dumb as bricks
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20:21 < sibiria> part of LBA (LBA48) is that the OS/file system figures out the sector size on its own - so it knows how large the block addressing span is
20:21 < sibiria> so it doesn't have to do old style LBA translation
20:22 < sibiria> OS asks the drive to identify itself
20:22 < pardis> but that may not work properly if a 4k-sector disk reports 512-byte sectors to the OS
20:22 < pardis> which appears to be the case here, based on "512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical"
20:22 < sibiria> drive is put against the wall. hand-cuffed if need be. and then it spills the beans
20:22 < sibiria> and everyone is happy
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20:29 < moviuro> ok, so now I have no idea about how to permanently wipe/destroy everything on disk and slap an OpenBSD system on that disk
20:30 < quinq> Just boot bsd.rd
20:31 < moviuro> hmmm, I had to launch disklabel in command mode :/ I thought I could just happily `disklabel -wA sd1` my way away
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20:37 < moviuro> https://x0.at/QnBL.txt <- why doesn't that return the usual partitioning stuff? /, none, <>, /tmp, /var, etc.
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20:39 < moviuro> disklabel -wA sd1 # also fails with: disklabel: autoalloc failed
20:39 < rsjw> I would guess one of 1) it's not mounted or 2) it's not an entry in /etc/fstab
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20:40 < moviuro> rsjw: it's a new disk, why would it already be in fstab?
20:40 < rsjw> well then maybe (1) is the relevant possibility
20:40 < moviuro> and it's very much just a disk I plugged in the machine, I don't want to mount it, I want to wipe it clean to put OpenBSD on it
20:41 < rsjw> nevermind, (1) doesn't make it show up.
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20:43 < rsjw> bbl
20:43 < pardis> moviuro: looks like you have an existing fdisk partition table that is already completely allocated, so there is no space to create new partitions
20:43 < pardis> if you want to wipe that, 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/rsd1c bs=4m count=1' should do the job
20:43 < moviuro> thanks pardis 
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21:24 < tcht> \q
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22:11 < brock> Hello, OpenBSD neighbors. I've read here on IRC this week, and also in reddit, of some folks who did sysupgrade and then got locked out before they could do pkg_add -u. I usually ssh into my box, but I also have physical access (a USB keyboard and hdmi cable plugged into my tv). Is there something funny I need to know before I upgrade?
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22:15 < quinq> You should read the upgrade guide
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22:16 < quinq> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade73.html
22:16 < quinq> But nothing should lock people add
22:17 < quinq> pkg_add is for ports, not for base system, and login doesn't depend on ports
22:17 < brock> I always raed the upgrade guide, and I've been upgading this machine since 6.8 with no problems. But a couple discussions this week have put me off
22:17 < thrig> some were locked out when they set a custom shell for root and their user and the shell didn't get recompiled right
22:17 < quinq> Now, if people try to run broken thing in their ~/.profile hemmm
22:17 < brock> both my users and root use ksh
22:17 < quinq> Erf ok thrig 
22:18 < thrig> something something teach a man to /usr/local/bin/fish and ...
22:18 < oldlaptop> It's always wise to have physical access (or at least something like a serial console) in case something goes south.
22:18 < thrig> (also don't change root's shell)
22:19 < quinq> (huhu)
22:19 < oldlaptop> Or at least don't change root's shell to something that isn't in /bin (which on openbsd means don't change it - unless you want csh, I guess? I wonder what breaks if you change root's shell to csh.)
22:20 < pardis> technically you could also set it to /bin/ed and still have a usable system
22:20 < brock> Thanks. I was a little nervous this time seeing a few people struggle with that issue. I'm doing a full backup and I have physical access. So I'll do the upgrade today.
22:20 < oldlaptop> ed, the new operating system lacking only a bloated text editor
22:21 < oldlaptop> If you have physical access and you can't fix it, something other than a dodgy upgrade is probably wrong
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22:21 < oldlaptop> (really wrong)
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22:23 < brock> famous last words. I guess you'll know in fifteen minutes when i come back and tell you what's broke.
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22:28 < nij-> Hi o/
22:28 < nij-> I have finished installing openbsd and rebooted.
22:29 < nij-> Now it shows `boot>` and I'm not sure what I can do from there :D
22:30 < nij-> Any guide I can read? How do I get the basics setup, get a minimal working wm and web browsers?
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22:36 < dev1ls> nij-: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Download
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22:37 < oldlaptop> nij-: The boot> prompt should time out fairly quickly, unless you bumped a key or something.
22:37 < sibiria> nij-: you just wait. the boot prompt times out and continues booting the OS unless you press a key (or unless something is wrong)
22:37 < oldlaptop> If you did that, see https://man.openbsd.org/boot.8
22:38 < oldlaptop> (Pressing [enter] should continue the boot process)
22:38 < sibiria> if interrupted, you can continue by just writing boot and pressing enter
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22:38 < oldlaptop> Hm, and I really should link https://man.openbsd.org/man8/amd64/boot.8
22:38 < dev1ls> but if he dont touch anything... its staring without hit enter
22:38 < dev1ls> hheheh
22:38 < oldlaptop> (the first one it picks is 'alpha' otherwise, which is... impressively relevant)
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22:39 < nij-> Oh lol indeed. I bumpted it out yesterday and thought I was stuck haha.
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22:41 < nij-> Wow, I'm in root now :-)
22:42 < nij-> Pinging google.com gives me this every one second: signature mismatch from 142.251.42.238: icmp_seq=0
22:42 < nij-> Does it mean my internet connection is funky?
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22:47 < sibiria> sure sounds like it
22:47 < nij-> Hmm, but `pkg_add vim` does install vim!
22:47 < nij-> I'm confused.
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22:55 < nij-> brb
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23:50 < ox1eef_> Should Ruby only be used with the default gems it is installed with, at least for those that interface with C ? Updating the default json gem from 2.6.1 to 2.6.3 is an instant segfault on require.
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--- Log closed Mon Apr 17 00:00:51 2023