--- Log opened Tue Apr 18 00:00:53 2023
00:01 < mr_ab> nij-: Yeah, I like thrig's idea of a DNS query.  In fact, I think most modern browsers issue a handful of DNS queries to get a general idea of what the network looks like.  It'll hit a couple of NXDOMAIN's to see if your DNS server is junk and is returning ad-ridden landing pages for invalid domains, and then I guess some other well known domains
00:01 < mr_ab> to see if there is a "network sign-in" page as there usually is on free wifi networks 
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00:10 < nij-> Is this a good sign that I'm connected to the internet? https://bpa.st/WMSKW
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00:13 < rsjw> try disconnecting from the internet and then running that command again. does it change?
00:16 < nij-> That will kick me out here. Will do :D
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00:18 < nij-> Interesting. After disconnecting wifi that command hangs. I thought dns lookup was performed in my local network though.
00:19 < nij-> Thanks folks! That means my internet is on :) Can start there.
00:19 < thrig> DNS queries can get cached, maybe
00:20 < morena> IRC connection can't
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02:57 < lockywolf> How is the new OpenBSD 7.3?
02:57 < nij-> Hmm.. I'm trying to ssh into my openbsd virtual machine. However, `ssh -vvv -p 22 root@<ip_address>` just hangs there.
02:58 < nij-> I have edited /etc/sshd_config to allow password authentication and login to root, and rebooted. Same issue.
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02:59 < lockywolf> nij-: can you log in as non-root?
02:59 < nij-> Haven't setup a user like that. Lemme do it now.
03:00 < lockywolf> well, it's the simplest thing to try
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03:01 < dayid> "just hangs" at which bit? with -vvv you should have plenty of debugging to see where/what it's getting to.
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03:02 < dayid> the usuals are: is the service running, is it listening on the IP, what's in the logs, etc.
03:02 < dayid> Also note that /etc/sshd_config isn't a default path used in OpenBSD, presumably just a typo of /etc/ssh/sshd_config though.
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03:04 < nij-> Oh, yes that's a typo. I did edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config.
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03:05 < nij-> ssh -vvv .. : https://bpa.st/TQSHA
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03:14 < lockywolf> nij-: can you ping that 10.0.2.15 successfully?
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03:15 < lockywolf> or start an httpd instance and curl the default page?
03:15 < nij-> It says request timeout.
03:16 < nij-> My openbsd is on qemu, and discussion yesterday suggested that ping may not work well on my openbsd.
03:16 < nij-> However, I just pinged from my local computer. That 's where I got 'request timeout'.
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03:26 < vortexx> nij-: what is your shell?
03:26 < vortexx> is it a vm upgraded from 7.2 to 7.3 but no packages upgraded?
03:27 < oldlaptop> qemu's user networking can be awfully goofy, especially for unsolicited traffic from the outside
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03:32 < nij-> I got disconnected for a while. Is there a logging page for this room?
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03:41 < villehardouin> Anyone here using XFCE? Shutdown and restart are grayed out for me in XFCE
03:42 < oldlaptop> That would need gdm or something, would it not?
03:42 < villehardouin> Don't think so, that's gnome isn't it
03:43 < oldlaptop> The power button should cause a soft shutdown by default on most machines, though it generally won't register things with DEs' session managers.
03:43 < oldlaptop> Maybe that's where the "or something" comes in. It would need *a* DM that supports the fancy-pants power-off stuff, which gdm is and xenodm is not.
03:44 < villehardouin> Ok xenodm is just that ugly login prompt at boot right
03:47 < oldlaptop> Presumably.
03:48 < oldlaptop> If the xfce people have developed their own display manager while I wasn't looking, perhaps you'd want to use that. So far as I know they generally use gdm.
03:48 < oldlaptop> (Or perhaps you won't want to bother. The power button tends to be rather less trouble than clicking through menus in any event.)
03:51 < villehardouin> True
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03:52 < RypPn> https://pastebin.com/72zV4eJc
03:56 < villehardouin> RypPn Are you using xenodm or gdm or what
03:56 < RypPn> slim
03:59 < villehardouin> RypPn Will any display manager work with that polkit trick or no
04:01 < RypPn> why not try it
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04:18 < villehardouin> RypPn It worked thank you so much!
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05:01 < nij-> Hello! My freshly installed openbsd (over qemu) has local ip address 10.0.2.15. However, pinging it from my local computer says "Request timeout for.." How can I trouble shoot this?
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05:20 < ludovicus> nij-: Is your computer in the same subnet? Plus, qemu nic parameter should be set appropriately to be seen by the host
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05:33 < nij-> Oh, I may not have set them correctly. In particular, I don't know what subnet and nic mean. Would you suggest me reading about them ("subnet", "nic")?
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05:39 < ludovicus> I suggest reading up on the -netdev and -nic parameters
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06:31 < lockywolf> oldlaptop: what is the xfce's display manager?
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06:32 < lockywolf> ah, sorry, misread that
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10:44 < alderwick> nij-: (apologies if this repeats someone else) How are you defining the network for your VM? It looks to me like you're using QEMU's user mode networking, since 10.0.2.15 is the standard IP its DHCP server gives out. The host machine doesn't know about the 10.0.2.x network, so that's why it's timing out. If you'd like to stay with user mode networking, the recommended way to get SSH access is to
10:44 < alderwick> forward a port with the hostfwd option.
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10:47 < pardis> incidentally, none of this is OpenBSD-specific
10:47 < pardis> it's qemu you need to understand here, not OpenBSD
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10:49 < alderwick> that's true! My eyes lit up when I saw that IP and thought it was a nice chance to exit lurking mode. But yeah it is off-topic, apologies.
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10:56 < pardis> it's not really off-topic since OpenBSD is involved, my comment was directed at nij- so they know what things to read up on
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11:18 < engblom> With 7.3 I have experienced serious problems when using ssh as socket proxy. The connection will hang, trying to ssh in again will fail. Restarting sshd will hang.
11:18 < engblom> pkill -9 sshd and then starting sshd again will not help. Only a full reboot will give sshd back.
11:20 < engblom> The system with problem is a VM running on openbsd 7.3 host
11:20 < engblom> Everything might work for some day, until it suddenly freezes.
11:21 < engblom> I never had this problem with any release before 7.3
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11:32 < sibiria> engblom: there were some changes in 7.3 regarding hardware timers that *might* affect this. you could try changing the default timer of the host
11:33 < sibiria> in previous versions of openbsd i saw better responsiveness etc. from VM guests after switching kern.timecounter.hardware to acpihpet
11:33 < sibiria> take a look what you have available and what your default is:  sysctl kern.timecounter
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11:34 < sibiria> my somewhat problematic default was tsc 
11:34 < sibiria> check/change this on the HOST, not the VM guest
11:35 < sibiria> (no idea if it's even exposed in there)
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11:41 < engblom> This I got: kern.timecounter.hardware=pvclock0
11:41 < engblom> kern.timecounter.choice=i8254(0) pvclock0(1500) tsc(-1000
11:41 < engblom> Sorry, did not see the last comment. That was the vm guest
11:42 < engblom> The host is running tsc
11:43 < pardis> it should always be pvclock0 in the guest, because that is the whole point of pvclock0, to provide a way for the guest to keep its clock in sync with the host
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12:30 < nij-> Thanks for your comment. I realize it is about qemu as well. I will ask there instead.
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16:00 < eea> good morning #openbsd
16:01 < eea> strange issue encountered on a 7.3 upgrade...
16:01 < eea> [doom@charlie:~]$ doas pkg_add -u
16:01 < eea> ListUtil.c: loadable library and perl binaries are mismatched (got first handshake key 0xec00000, needed 0xeb80000)
16:01 < eea> heh. what did i break?
16:01 < thrig> have you been upgrading perl modules into the vendor space
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16:01 < eea> hrm, i think i did a dbd module via cpan
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16:02 < thrig> instead setup local::lib and put your not-vendor additions only into there
16:03 < eea> seems the easiest fix would be fresh install?
16:03 < thrig> or nuke the stuff you added (but who knows where it got installed to)
16:04 < eea> yea... thankfulle /var/backup is current :)
16:04 < thrig> maybe ktrace might say what files got touched
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16:07 < sibiria> didn't cpan ask if you wanted to install in some "site" space according to one of the paths in @INC
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16:07 < eea> that cpan effort was months ago, and I kept 0 notes
16:07 < eea> but copying some config files and reinstalling all the needful pkgs... easy enough 
16:08 < pardis> does 'find /usr/local/libdata/perl5 -name Util.so' find anything?
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16:08 < thrig> put them into a cpanfile, setup local::lib, etc
16:08 < eea> pardis: 2 results from that find
16:09 < pardis> and is one of them List::Util?
16:09 < eea> List::Util and Params::Util
16:09 < pardis> well, the error you're getting is from List::Util, which is in base and shouldn't be in /usr/local
16:09 < pardis> so that looks like your problem
16:09 < sibiria> madness, since List::Util is a standard module
16:10 < thrig> List::Util is dual-life
16:10 < eea> heh, so i can just rm the List::Util in /usr/local?
16:10 < pardis> possibly, or you might get an error from a different module after doing that
16:11 < eea> well, let's find out :)
16:11 < pardis> if so, you could remove everything in /usr/local/libdata/perl5 and then reinstall any p5-* packages
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16:11 < sibiria> do not remove everything in /usr/local/libdata/perl5/
16:12 < sibiria> base puts one or two things there
16:12 < sibiria> so does certain packages pulling perl modules
16:12 < eea> yea... moving List::Util produced a whole new set of errors
16:12 < pardis> base does not put anything there according to pkglocate
16:12 < pardis> other than some directories
16:12 < sibiria> quirks goes there
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16:13 < pardis> quirks is installed by pkg_add as needed, so would get automatically replaced
16:13 < sibiria> the path needs a few base dirs as well. do not empty it. just remove the conflicting modules instead
16:13 < sibiria> (after vetting what's a problem and what isn't)
16:14 < pardis> assuming you can figure out which modules are problems and it won't be a 6-hour game of whack-a-mole, yes
16:18 < pardis> the main reason I would lean towards replacing everything in /usr/local/libdata/perl5 is that even if you get rid of the modules causing errors, you might still have modules in there causing non-obvious different behaviour
16:19 < sibiria> it will cripple packages that installed private modules
16:19 < sibiria> irssi is one example
16:20 < pardis> reinstalling packages that put things in /usr/local/libdata/perl5 is still less work than reinstalling the entire system, which was the alternative proposal
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16:26 < myappie> icosahedrons :thinking:
16:26 < myappie> wrong channel
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18:13 < morena> oh first and last time I played with perl modules I reinstalled the system ;/
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19:30 < pony> https://www.pcengines.ch/eol.htm
19:31 < Bradipo> Pity.
19:31 < pony> ya
19:31 < Bradipo> I also liked the Soekris.
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19:39 < rsjw> I wonder what "design support" they're referring to, and from who
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19:41 < uwharrie> likely from AMD and Intel on how to mount parts, connect them to each other, properly power them, etc
19:41 < dayid> I figured it just meant actually even making CPUs that fit the "passive cooling/low-power" etc anymore
19:41 < dayid> That they're not "designing" any replacement products for the ones they're retiring.
19:42 < thrig> Cadance can be expensive to run
19:50 < coreystephanphd> ThinkPad X270, mixerctl defaults to mic2 rather than mic. Easy fix, but mailing lists, Reddit, etc. are full of Qs about this on similar devices (ThinkPads ca. 2015-2020), and many of those threads are unresolved. Worth submitting inquiry to misc@ about changing default behavior to default to mic? Or simple note "hey, this is how to fix this common problem, cheers"? 
19:51 < tommyrot> sounds like something for bugs@
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19:53 < coreystephanphd> tommyrot: Thanks. I simply wanted to avoid being the dreaded 'newb in bugs@' :)
19:53 < tommyrot> well it sounds like you did your homework and talking about it doesn't fix the problem
19:55 < coreystephanphd> I do not write things in public forums without doing my homework. Academia and OpenBSD overlap on that and many other cultural expectations :)
19:55 < Filystyn> corey i prefer the aproach *spam and don't look back*
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19:56 < coreystephanphd> Filystyn: 100% effective at 0% engagement and/or invoking De Raadt's famous 'what is this nonsense?'-type message
19:56 < coreystephanphd> A sure win!
19:57 < thrig> you see here the glittering Asbestos Suit [+4 against Theo]
19:57 < uwharrie> help vampires gonna suck
19:57 < thrig> oh, for the record, I prefer the purple servers, not the black or white ones
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20:05 < coreystephanphd> It amuses me that he bothers to take the time to write amusing messages like those, even if they only are 1-2 minutes each.
20:07 < thrig> palate cleansers
20:07 < thrig> SMOOOOOOKE YOOOOOOOOU okay back to coding now
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20:56 < Filystyn> btw what is this:   
20:56 < Filystyn> outputs.master.slaves=dac-0:1,dac-6:7,line-grn,hp  { dac-0:1 dac-4:5 dac-2:3 dac-6:7 line-grn line-blk line-org mic mic2 line-in hp dac-8:9 }
20:56 < Filystyn> how do i decode this dac hp
20:56 < Filystyn> line-green
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20:58 < Filystyn> seems like it's a converter yet im somehow lost on this, why would I choose ?
21:01 < Filystyn> ok seems they are  simply sockets on mother board O.o linegreen line black mic  line-in  etc
21:01 < Filystyn> but dac and  hp are a mystery
21:02 < Filystyn> that posted line is from mixerctl
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21:11 < Filystyn> headphones
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21:25 < myappie> What happens to unix user groups when its members harass and buly its new members, while the leadershi ooks the other way?
21:25 < myappie> are there any ways to shut such groups down?
21:25 < jcs> you create a new user group
21:26 < myappie> yeah not a bad idea
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21:26 < jcs> and starve the shitty one of members, just like forking a software project
21:26 < myappie> but are they alllowed to operate lie that? will they have to be shut dow by law?
21:26 < myappie> such a  weir exeriece with www.nuug.no
21:27 < jcs> i guess depending on the level of harassment that would be a legal issue for the person doing it, but i don't think any user groups are officially tied to the projects they're about
21:27 < myappie> came there with open arms, promising to redo their website and bring in hundreds if not thousands of new members. thats when it started.
21:28 < pardis> if you come into a community claiming that you know how to do things better than they are currently doing them, you are unlikely to be well received
21:29 < myappie> pardis: that's a goodpoint. but i was so enthusiastic and took the standpoint of building on what was already there.
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21:30 < myappie> making my own user group sounds much better. NOBU
21:31 < myappie> the leader, pitrh the grumpy bsd guy disconnected his phone even, wtf
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21:32 < myappie> anyway thanks. time to bring bsdports.net back online after the falcon upgrade!
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22:14 < moonshine> myappie: also people seem to have wildly different views of what harassment/bullying is
22:15 < moonshine> sometimes it's people not asking the right questions, and not getting the answers they wanted in the way they wanted
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22:32 < ox1eef_> Close the door and open another one. 
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23:07 -!- drainpipe [~drainpipe@pool-98-116-192-7.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.8]
23:11 -!- mncheck [~mncheck@193.224.205.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:12 -!- ficonni [~ficonni@46.235.96.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:14 -!- unpx [~unpx@151.71.162.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:14 -!- ficonni [~ficonni@46.235.96.214] has joined #openbsd
23:18 -!- nawo [~nawo@128.194.2.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:19 -!- AlaskanEmily [~AlaskanEm@user/alaskanemily] has joined #openbsd
23:21 -!- JTL is now known as jittle
23:21 -!- jittle is now known as JTL
23:21 -!- bluerise_ [~bluerise@p5b0ac318.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openbsd
23:21 -!- bluerise [~bluerise@p5b0ac6c3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
23:23 -!- ioxception_ [~quassel@193.19.205.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:24 -!- ioxception [~quassel@94.140.11.137] has joined #openbsd
23:25 -!- SirJitsu [~SirJitsu@162-231-111-175.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
23:26 -!- OV3RDR1VE [~NULL1F13D@user/Xfce4BestDE] has joined #openbsd
23:31 -!- unpx [~unpx@151.51.134.104] has joined #openbsd
23:32 -!- blupier [~archie@user/blupier] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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23:39 -!- OV3RDR1VE [~NULL1F13D@user/Xfce4BestDE] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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23:50 -!- dev1ls [~dev1ls@user/Dev1ls] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
23:50 -!- dev1ls_ is now known as dev1ls
23:52 -!- blupier [~archie@user/blupier] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:55 -!- an3223 [~user@user/an3223] has joined #openbsd
23:56 -!- chrisz [xcdlp05064@195.52.23.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
--- Log closed Wed Apr 19 00:00:54 2023