--- Log opened Tue Apr 25 00:00:03 2023
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05:36 < thirdwhl> So I wasted more time than I should have waiting for the kernel to build in a VM. Grabbed an old laptop for the build and it's so much faster
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05:39 < thirdwhl> aaaand it just overtook the VM
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07:45 < treefrob> what's the current recommendation for sizing swap space? I'm installing a 7.3 system with 8GB RAM...
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07:50 < IcePic> expected memory usage - ram = swap
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07:53 < xmszkn-> oldlaptop: ;]
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07:58 < rjc> treefrob: use the default
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08:07 < treefrob> what would the default be for 8GB?
08:08 < renaud> depends on what you expect to do, like IcePic said
08:09 < renaud> but, in general, when a machine is actively using swap, it goes bad very fast
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08:23 < rjc> treefrob: also, you'll need swap close to the size of your ram (just in case) if you'd ever like to hibernate your system
08:24 < rjc> it's compressed, afaik
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12:58 < TheyCallMePaul> Just upgraded an old 10GB VPS from 7.2 to 7.3, and it's failing with tar: Failed to write to file ./usr/share/...: No space left on device.
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12:59 < TheyCallMePaul> Is there a new minimum for /usr/? I've assigned 1506.1M on that disklabel partition.
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13:06 < lts> TheyCallMePaul: it appears so, yes
13:07 < TheyCallMePaul> First time I've encountered this, so wondering about suggestions?
13:08 < lts> If you have spare space, you can boot in single user mode and create a new bigger /usr
13:09 < TheyCallMePaul> So far, I've been able to get away with only adding space on the end partition, so changing one of the ones in the middle is new for me - where should I start?
13:10 < TheyCallMePaul> Here is disklable -h sd0a https://clbin.com/lx8Rp
13:11 < lts> AFAIK you would need to copy away the data from as many partitions needed, recreate them, and copy the data back. At that point, might be easier to just create a new server and transfer the data there
13:12 < IcePic> TheyCallMePaul: do you have lots of packages eating space in /usr/local and if so, is /usr/local a partition of its own or not?
13:12 < IcePic> saw the paste now, my bad
13:13 < TheyCallMePaul> I have very little installed to this one. pkg_info -A https://clbin.com/WWRLs
13:13 < TheyCallMePaul> I don't know why I made swap 4GB, lol.
13:14 < IcePic> A guess would be left-overs from lib and kernel relinking, check if /usr/share/relink eats a lot of space
13:14 < IcePic> takes some 670M here
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13:16 < IcePic> I have had poor luck in getting /etc/rc to recreate the relink stuff if I wipe it all, but removing the *.o files should get you some space back
13:19 < lts> You might be able to just increase the VPS disk size
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13:21 < lts> I _think_ you could also replace the swap partition "b" with new /usr partition, and use the old /usr partition as swap, but I have not tested this myself. Something might blindly assume b is always swap
13:24 < lts> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html says "The boot disk's b partition is usually a swap partition" but "man disklabel" says "By convention [..] the ‘b’ partition of the boot disk is the swap partition, but all other letters can be used in any order for any other partitions""
13:25 < IcePic> the default kernel will try to use part-b for swap
13:26 < lts> Probably not a good idea then
13:26 < IcePic> then again, one could presumably switch the start/end blocks for b and the partition holding /usr now, and with some trickery newfs the second /usr and so on
13:26 < IcePic> feels easier to backup+rebuild the VM
13:26 < lts> ^
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13:38 < jf> ^
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18:35 < gnucode> hmmm, I'm trying to set up guix system to run on vmd.  guix provides a qcow2 image...but my create command is failing.  
18:35 < gnucode> doas vmctl create -b "qcow2:guix-system-vm-image-1.4.0.x86_64-linux.qcow2" -s 20G guix.img  
18:36 < gnucode> vmctl: base images require qcow2 disk format   
18:36 < gnucode> I'm not certain what I am doing wrong...I dont think vmd is running currently...
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18:37 < oldlaptop> Does it not mean that the image you're *creating* must *also* be qcow2?
18:38 < gnucode> oldlaptop: I suppose that makes sense.
18:38 < gnucode> doas vmctl create -b "qcow2:guix-system-vm-image-1.4.0.x86_64-linux.qcow2" -s 20G guix.qcow2  
18:38 < gnucode> vmctl: failure to read base image header  
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18:39 < oldlaptop> What does file(1) think of your prospective base image?
18:41 < gnucode>  doas vmctl create -b guix-system-vm-image.qcow2 -s 20G guix.qcow2
18:41 < gnucode> vmctl: base size does not match requested size  
18:41 < gnucode> file reports  -->   guix-system-vm-image.qcow2: QEMU QCOW Image (v3), 32255246336 bytes   
18:42 < gnucode> ok this was the right incantation:  "doas vmctl create -b guix-system-vm-image.qcow2 guix.qcow2"
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18:43 < pardis> you shouldn't need doas for vmctl create
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18:44 < gnucode> pardis ok good to know.   
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18:49 < gnucode> doas rcctl start vmd  -->  vmd(failed)
18:50 < gnucode> hmmm. let me try to see if my config file is incorrect.  
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18:52 < gnucode> nope configuration is ok.   I am going to reboot, and see if it is running....because I did enable it successfully.
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19:01 < quinq> gnucode, rather run vmd manually to see what it says
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19:03 < gnucode> I guess I can try that.   
19:05 < gnucode> doas vmd -d   ->  vmd: /dev/vmm: Operation not supported by device   
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19:06 < oldlaptop> You might want to look through dmesg to make sure you actually *have* vmm support.
19:06 < oldlaptop> (If you don't and you think your CPU *should*, look through firmware settings - there's often a knob for virtualization extensions, and it's often off by default)
19:07 < eea> not sure if something changed in smtpd for 7.3, but al the failed bruteforce attempts have ceased
19:09 < gnucode> dmesg doesn't say "vmd"  but it does have this line  "vmm0 at mainbus0: VMX (using slow L1TF mitigation)"  
19:09 < gnucode> oldlaptop: where would I find firmware settings?  
19:10 < byteskeptical> eea: maybe they read about those new synthetic memory protections and skedaddled
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19:11 < sibiria> gnucode: in your BIOS/EFI
19:11 < sibiria> under CPU features
19:12 < sibiria> if intel machine it'll usually be named vt-x. if amd, usually svm
19:12 < sibiria> amd-v if older amd
19:12 < gnucode> sibiria: how do I look in my "BIOS/EFI"  ?  I am on a T400.  
19:12 < oldlaptop> That should be F12 on startup. The blue button works anyway.
19:12 < sibiria> delete or one of the f-keys
19:13 < sibiria> it's fantastic that PC vendors cannot agree on what to use :)
19:13 < oldlaptop> The customary practice on an unknown machine is to mash the F-keys at random - *one* of them is probably it
19:13 < oldlaptop> (Or that's my customary practice.)
19:13 < gnucode> oldlaptop: I'm using libreboot...which jumps me straight to grub.  
19:13 < oldlaptop> Welp.
19:14 < gnucode> actually not grub it's something else.  but I have used qemu on this laptop before to run the hurd on linux.  
19:14 < sibiria> on libreboot it's escape, no?
19:14 < oldlaptop> One would hope they document this kind of thing.
19:14 < gnucode> I believe escape would get me somewhere, but I think for me that would just list boot options.  
19:14 < sibiria> or, hm, maybe libreboot is the one that writes the settings into the bios file itself
19:14 < gnucode> I'm happy to check.  
19:15 < oldlaptop> In any case, your dmesg line would suggest it's enabled(?)
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19:16 < sibiria> rcctl enable vmd; rcctl start vmd   works?
19:16 < oldlaptop> Wait, no. T400 would be core2.
19:16 < oldlaptop> core2 doesn't have nested page tables, meaning vmm won't work
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19:17 < gnucode> bummer.  :(  
19:18 < sibiria> author of libreboot sells refurbished T4xx models for cheap. might be a worthwhile upgrade for you
19:18 < sibiria> T440 i think she sells
19:19 < gnucode> sibiria: eh, maybe one day.  I'm fairly happy with what I've got at the moment.  :)  
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19:37 < lavaball> i have a bunch of these: Apr 25 17:26:16.870834 rule 0._8.10/(match) block in on re0: 192.168.0.8.16007 > 123.185.33.201.56106: udp 108   and   Apr 25 17:26:16.471110 rule 0._8.10/(match) block in on re0: 192.168.0.8.16007 > 39.107.142.158.3478: udp 20
19:37 < lavaball> everything works as intended, except why am i sending stuff to china via udp? 
19:37 < lavaball> i swear i didn't do nothing.
19:40 < sibiria> huawei smartphone?
19:40 < lavaball> no.
19:40 < lavaball> this box. running openbsd.
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19:41 < dkeav> haxd
19:41 < lavaball> gigabyte board, newer amd. 
19:41 < sibiria> public ntpd? httpd?
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19:41 < sibiria> not DROPping packets, but rather returning responses?
19:41 < lavaball> nothing. this kid is locked down tighter than .. put some grandma joke in here.
19:41 < lavaball> no, sending out.
19:42 < lavaball> as it says, from .8 to china.
19:42 < sibiria> that would make me uneasy
19:42 < lavaball> tell me about it.
19:43 < lavaball> also quite proud that i locked everything down so tightly that nothing escapes me.
19:43 < eea> that would have me sandbox that host real quick
19:43 < lavaball> it kinda is. if you read the pf output, block in on re0 ...
19:43 < lavaball> nothing leaves without me giving it a go.
19:44 < dkeav> we need a pf clone of opensnitch or something
19:44 < lavaball> haha, what's open snitch?
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19:44 < lavaball> and does get open stitch?
19:44 < dkeav> hah
19:45 < dkeav> application firewall for linux hosts
19:45 < dkeav> https://github.com/evilsocket/opensnitch
19:45 < lavaball> the call comes from inside the north bridge.
19:45 < eea> pfsense?
19:45 < lavaball> that wouldn't help me.
19:46 < lavaball> by the way, what does the number behind udp mean? the 108 and the 20?
19:46 < sibiria> lavaball: i'd sniff the external interfce and see what shows up there
19:46 < dkeav> binary blog firmwares loaded?
19:47 < lavaball> dkeav, this? fw_update: added none; updated none; kept amdgpu
19:49 < lavaball> sniff the external interface? you have to give me a bit more detail. you mean the router?
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19:53 < dkeav> just trying to think how could a chip on the board send upd packets through the OS and why bother that way, without loading a non-standard firmware or something
19:53 < sibiria> lavaball: tcpdump -i <external nic> -D out udp
19:53 < sibiria> or something like that
19:53 < sibiria> to make sure you're not really seeing things
19:54 < lavaball> so on the router then.
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19:55 < lavaball> though the router has coreboot and an old chip running openbsd stable. no open ports. if that thing is compromised there is nothing i can do.
19:55 < sibiria> or the machine you suspect is sending stuff
19:56 < lavaball> not necessary. everything it sends out gets logged by the router. otherwise i wouldn't even know something happened.
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19:58 < lavaball> but i definitely should lock down the socks proxy too.
19:58 < lavaball> right now that's how i'm here and how i firefox.
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19:59 < lavaball> by the way, nobody told me yet, what are the numbers behidn udp? the 108 and the 20 in the pf log?
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20:04 < lavaball> i guess you don't know either.
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20:13 < sibiria> in the pf log, not sure, because i don't log traffic
20:13 < sibiria> in tcpdump it's the packet size
20:13 < sibiria> i would presume the same in pflog
20:13 < lavaball> then it's that. because you need tcpdump to see the log.
20:14 < lavaball> also why you only use -i not nettti?
20:14 < sibiria> "only use -i"?
20:14 < lavaball> with tcpdump. 
20:15 < lavaball> nettti for nice people, netttr for even nicer.
20:15 < sibiria> you don't need anything fancy just to see if the suspected traffic is actually happening and exiting the machine
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20:25 < lavaball> hm, oka.
20:25 < lavaball> y
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20:27 < lavaball> how do i log related,established with pf?
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20:39 < lavaball> hm, when thereis no more disk space on /var/log/ the logging just stops?
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20:43 < frodo> Lavaball: you can use logrotate to prevent that
20:44 < lavaball> even the smalles people cam make a difference.
20:44 < lavaball> thanks, ring bearer.
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21:01 < coreystephanphd> lavaball: In OpenBSD, anyone can submit a diff. Even the Very Wise de Raadt cannot see all ends, so it is the small, everyday deeds of ordinary folks like us that help keep the darkness at bay.
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21:03 < lavaball> yeah, or i was referring to lord of the rings becuase of his name. 
21:03 < lavaball> but sure.
21:04 < lavaball> why do i have mkfx.ext4? ican we use ext4? now?
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21:04 < rsjw> where's that?
21:05 < sibiria> maybe you installed fuse. mkfs.* is not an openbsd thing
21:05 < rsjw> ah "mkfs"
21:05 < sibiria> newfs is openbsd lingo. mkfs is linux lingo
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21:05 < lavaball> that's why i was confused. and yes, fuse for sshfs.
21:06 < rsjw> it looks like it's in e2fsprogs (told by pkg_info -E)
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21:10 < rsjw> speaking of application firewalls, how would that work? specifically, how would it work in the case where a firewalled program fork/execs another program? it seems like the firewalled program could just call out to curl to bypass the restriction
21:11 < rsjw> unless the restriction were inherited, of course
21:12 < thrig> pledge might disallow so pesky a thing as a fork
21:12 < rsjw> yeah but you might want it to be able to fork for other reasons
21:14 < thrig> no? in that case, it might pipe-talk to something that can fork
21:15 < rsjw> if it were custom-made for openbsd, perhaps. but isn't the point of a firewall that its effectiveness does not depend on that?
21:15 < zmoment> If I just need to run Xorg ocasionally, is `doas xenodm` the way to start X as an unprivileged user?
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21:17 < rsjw> if you're already logged in you can run startx. the point of xenodm is really that it has a graphical log-in screen
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21:18 < rsjw> it'll run .xinitrc instead of .xsession though, but you can just have .xinitrc call .xsession if you want
21:18 < sibiria> i'm not sure openbsd has the necessary tools to behave like a pre-emptively blocking application firewall, like e.g. little snitch or LuLu on macOS
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21:20 < sibiria> pf is user/group/pid aware but that's about it, and not enough
21:20 < pardis> you can easily just run something in its own rdomain if you want to be able to apply pf rules to one application specifically
21:20 < pardis> rsjw: it is not true that you can just run startx in all cases
21:20 < pardis> it works on a subset of hardware
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21:22 < sibiria> yes but rdomain isn't quite the same thing, and it requires superuser priv to force an application into a certain rdomain
21:23 < sibiria> making rdomain 0 locked-down and being permissive in various degrees on rdomain 1+ is kind of a hamfisted solution, but it does mimic the behavior partly
21:24 < rsjw> pardis: startx is just a script. why would some hardware not be able to run it?
21:27 < pardis> because it eventually starts the X server
21:27 < pardis> sibiria: no it doesn't, ordinary users can put things into rdomains
21:28 < pardis> you just can't move them back *out* of their own rdomain without superuser privileges
21:28 < pardis> which is exactly what you want for an application firewall
21:28 < pardis> you only need superuser privileges to define the pf rules for it
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21:30 < sibiria> doesn't sound sufficient to me, if that's the case about initially launching an executable into any rdomain
21:30 < sibiria> unprivileged user can simply launch anywhere they want, either by knowing or by shotgunning until lucky and landing in a permissive domain
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21:32 < sibiria> macOS has an actual framework sitting between every executable and the network stack
21:32 < sibiria> it's a venerable design and idea
21:34 < thrig> and can also slow things down, a lot
21:34 < sibiria> can but does not. i've measured
21:34 < tux0r> macos's frameworks are pretty nice, actually. linuxers could learn a lot from them.
21:34 < sibiria> first launch is of course a head-bump in wall
21:35 < rsjw> pardis: yes startx eventually starts the x server, but that's the point. and xenodm starts the x server too, so no difference there
21:35 < pardis> the difference is that xenodm starts the X server as root, but startx starts it as whichever user you run startx as
21:36 < pardis> which works on some hardware, but not all
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21:36 < rsjw> ah I see, so with startx it's all as the user, with xenodm it's split between root and dropped-privileges to the x11 user?
21:37 < pardis> yes, the X server is privsep on OpenBSD if started as root
21:38 < rsjw> zmoment: I guess you could also do rcctl start xenodm
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21:46 < ssm_> anyone else using inteldrm having issues with picom crashing xorg? I had to use --legacy-backends to fix it
21:46 < ssm_> intel iris XE
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21:58 < lavaball> updating intel management engine [failed]. should i be happy now? the thing still boots ..
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22:01 < sibiria> wait with happy until you uninstalled it
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22:02 < lavaball> oh, i'm not worried. as you already know everything is locked down here anyway. 
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22:06 < lavaball> hwo do i write bootable to the usb drive? i can't find anything in disklabel.
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22:09 < rsjw> I haven't done it before but installboot(8) might be what you're looking for
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22:12 < lavaball> that seems to install a whole bootable system. i just want to set the bootable bit. 
22:12 < lavaball> well, maybe there is something in there i haven't found yet.
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22:15 < rsjw> "An interface belongs to one and only one rdomain." does this mean that you can't have an rdomain-firewalled app and a non-rdomain-firewalled app passing packets in and out of the same network device?
22:16 < rsjw> or maybe it just means that you have to explicitly set up pf to let you do so
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22:30 < pardis> yes, you will have to explicitly add rules to pf to move traffic to rdomain 0 (or whichever one has your real network interface)
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22:45 < lavaball> bios update successful!
22:45 < fro> k
22:45 < lavaball> don't get too excited ...
22:46 < lavaball> ime also was update.
22:46 < sibiria> sorry to hear the last part
22:46 < lavaball> nothing i can do.i found a guide to remove it on github, but my board wasn't among the supported.
22:47 < sibiria> it's quite the surgical procedure indeed
22:47 < lavaball> either way, i have openbsd on coreboot on old hardware in front of everything. already caught the chinese udp. so i thing i'm good.
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22:57 < zmoment> To try to reduce the power consumption, is 'apm -L' the way to do it?  In Linux there's powertop and in NetBSD 'powerd', if I recall correctly.
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23:04 < thrig> obsdfreqd is also a thing
23:10 < sibiria> definitely go with obsdfreqd
23:12 < __giovanni> there is also sysutils/upower but it depends on glib-2.0
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23:16 < zmoment> amp -L decrease 4W, from 45 to 41.
23:17 < zmoment> obsdfreq -m 80 -T 60 doesn't seem to have an effect.  This is not a laptop but a desktop system.
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23:17 < pardis> apm -L will run on minimum power all the time, which means your system will be slower (but you will see the best power reduction, theoretically)
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23:19 < sibiria> disable apmd and run only obdsfreqd
23:19 < pardis> note that if you have apmd running, you need to follow the advice under BUGS in obsdfreqd(1) to avoid them clashing
23:19 < pardis> only disable apmd if you don't need apmd
23:19 < sibiria> what does wattmeter say when you notice "sysctl hw.setperf" returning 0?
23:20 < sibiria> you don't really need it with obsdfreqd
23:20 < pardis> you can't know that
23:20 < zmoment> sibiria: it's at 42W
23:21 < pardis> zmoment may or may not be using features of apmd other than setting cpu frequency policy
23:21 < sibiria> zmoment: just 4 watts between lowest and highest frequency sounds very little - but there's more to it than just the frequency
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23:22 < sibiria> between no load and full load you should see a larger span than just 4 watts
23:23 < zmoment> The 45W was not under full load, just before starting apm.
23:24 < zmoment> I need to get some sleep.  Thank you for your help.  I'll also check upower.
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 26 00:00:04 2023