--- Log opened Thu Apr 27 00:00:05 2023
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00:44 < rsjw> uuaaeeii: could make a video and watch it frame by frame
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01:13 < uuaaeeii> rsjw, will have to give that a shot if this potato camera can get it
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02:08 < clicker> hello everybody, i'm unsure if this is the correct place to ask this but i figure it's the best option. i'm trying to configure doas and shairport-sync to allow the service to restart itself on a failure, i'm using these config tweaks for my doas.conf and shairport-sync.conf files https://clbin.com/rfpbH and i'd appreciate a second pair of eyes on them to point out any glaring flaws before i try them as this is my first time doing any doas conf
02:10 < clicker> i have to figure out some way to restart on fail because annoyingly the service seems to fail whenever i pause whatever media i'm playing on my iphone
02:10 < pardis> this is giving _shairport permission to start and stop any service on the system
02:10 < clicker> is there a way i could configure it to only have permission to restart its own service?
02:10 < pardis> including, say, cron
02:10 < pardis> yes, see args in doas.conf(5)
02:10 < clicker> thank you
02:11 < clicker> oh wow i can't believe i missed that, scanned the man page beforehand but completely neglected to read that part :facepalm:
02:11 < pardis> another possible problem is that rcctl restart will actually stop, then start the service
02:11 < pardis> if it stops the service while it is running that command, it may kill the shell invoking rcctl before it gets around to starting it up again
02:12 < clicker> perhaps it'd be better to set up a cron job or something to monitor the process every so often and restart it if it notices a failure?
02:13 < pardis> you could also pipe the doas command into 'at now' to run it via cron without needing a job
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02:13 < clicker> at now? sorry i haven't heard of that before, is there a man page i can read?
02:14 < pardis> at(1)
02:14 < clicker> ah i see, yeah this may work. thanks!
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02:16 < clicker> as for the doas configuration, should i still permit it to run the rcctl restart command for its service? i'm unsure what permissions would be necessary since cron would be executing it
02:18 < pardis> you will only be able to schedule at jobs that run as the same user (otherwise at(1) would be a privilege escalation vulnerability), so yes, you still need the doas rule
02:19 < clicker> ah gotcha thanks
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02:40 < clicker> hm so it didn't work (i probably just didn't understand the purpose of the shairport config option) but i did figure out that my issue is fixed when shairport-sync is just run as a normal command instead of the service, i wonder if it would be a good idea to just disable the service and set fvwm to run the command on login
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02:53 < clicker> had to restart my window manager to test but yeah starting shairport at login instead of using the service fixed it. weird lol
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03:11 < clicker> nevermind, seems it's some sort of hardware level issue with shairport on openbsd specifically. oh well, maybe i can set up a keybind or something so that i can restart shairport even while my monitor is using another input (mainly an apple tv)
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06:44 < renaud> Any idea what's the purpose of importing boringssl into ports?
06:46 < IcePic> either "validating libressl against boring" or some import that for some reason requires it
06:46 < IcePic> some upcoming import, that is
06:48 < renaud> I'd like to know what requires boringssl, that seems strange
06:48 < renaud> "validating libressl against boring" seems more probable
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08:45 < shalom> hi
08:46 < zelest> shalom
08:46 < shalom> peace
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10:27 < xmszkn-> learning about and configuring openbsd is so absorbing that I lose control of my life :O
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10:52 < engblom> I wonder if there is some kind of technical limitaton that is the reason the openbsd port of rclone does not support mounting?
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10:53 < engblom> It looks like openbsd does have FUSE (https://man.openbsd.org/fuse.4)
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11:46 < finkfox> i've installed openbsd on an old apple laptop. trying to get the touchpad's tapping functionality to work. using wsconsctl I have set "mouse.tp.tapping" to "1,1,1". Single finger tap works (left mouse button). but the others don't, two/three finger. How can I debug/fix this?
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11:52 < renaud> finkfox: once you have found, just tell me, I would like to know if it's possible to recycle my old ibook G4
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12:08 < ajshell1> I have an odd issue with OpenBSD. I run it as a VM on TrueNAS Scale, and whenever I first start it, the time is wrong, but when I reboot it, it's correct for my time zone
12:08 < ajshell1> "When I first start it" being when it first starts after TrueNAS Scale starts up
12:10 < finkfox> renaud: it's not a G4, macbook pro from 2010
12:10 < sibiria> ajshell1: i usually run rdate from rc.local, just to be sure
12:11 < sibiria> e.g. "rdate <your favorite ntp server>"
12:12 < ajshell1> That's weird. I'm using ntpd. Why wouldn't that work?
12:13 < sibiria> i'm sure it does but maybe not instantaneously, if you notice actual problems with time being wrong besides init/kernel complaining about it right at boot
12:13 < ajshell1> My actual problem is that it won't accept SSH connections unless the time is correct
12:14 < ajshell1> I was like "Okay, if I'm going to open a port on my router for SSH purposes, it'll only be open to an OpenBSD machine running an ssh server and nothing else"
12:14 < ajshell1> "And it'll require an ssh key with a ludicrously long password PLUS a TOTP code"
12:16 < finkfox> another find: I can play audio via bluetooth adapter create BT-W2. as soon as I start firefox, the sound gets distorted/robotic. how to find which resource is the bottleneck here?
12:16 < finkfox> (creative BT-W2)
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12:23 < ajshell1> As a guy who makes a living maintaining a RHEL server, I like the "cohesiveness" of *BSDs.
12:24 < renaud> TBH, RH has never been really nice to manage
12:24 < ajshell1> Better than the Solaris server we replaced
12:25 < ajshell1> In Linux, it's like "Oh, you have the kernel, which is maintained by this one group, and you have GNU coreutils and GCC stuff, maintained by another group, and systemd, maintained by another group..." and so on ad nauseam 
12:25 < ajshell1> Sure, the *BSDs have to rely on other groups for X11 and ALSA/PulseAudio, but still
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12:53 < phy1729> renaud: might be to update the rust ring create faster. iirc it has issues with the syscalls only in libc mitigation
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12:59 < pardis> ajshell1: it sounds as though your TrueNAS system is starting VMs before setting the host clock properly
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13:09 < thrig> cerni
13:09 < thrig> whoops
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15:17 < gnucode> heyo !
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16:22 < bsandro> hello friends! what would be a first debug action upon 7.3 boot on amd64 if it hangs right after softraid0 init? fresh ryzen 7xxx pc
16:23 < Bradipo> Try booting bsd.rd and mount the softraid0 manually?
16:24 < Bradipo> Is this an upgrade from 7.2?  A fresh install of 7.3?
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16:25 < bsandro> fresh install, there is no softraid or anything, it is just the final line of bootlog that I see :)
16:25 < Bradipo> Got it.
16:25 < bsandro> or rather "fresh boot", no installation yet since boot image hangs on me :(
16:26 < Bradipo> Ahh, ok, "7.3 boot" suggests to me the "first time boot after installation".
16:26 < Bradipo> So you mean the install kernel hangs?
16:26 < bsandro> the kernel itself is alive I think since the capslock led works, but the boot doesn't progress
16:26 < bsandro> yeah install kernel, sorry for describing situation badly :D
16:28 < bsandro> i'll try -current just in case
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16:28 < finkfox> hi. i get stuttering when playing audio via usb and running something heavy like firefox.
16:29 < finkfox> issue is described here https://marc.info/?t=165182237800001&r=1&w=2
16:29 < finkfox> a fix is to use "mfs" based tmp folder for firefox caching
16:29 < finkfox> unfortunately it does not work for me
16:30 < finkfox> I guess my machine is too old/slow. what a bummer.
16:30 < finkfox> anyone else have experience with this?
16:30 < lts> Have you confirmed the cache actually goes to the mfs based directory?
16:30 < lts> I.e. can you see the cache content there, and it changes as you browse pages?
16:31 < lts> du -s /the/directory/in/question should change size when it does
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16:33 < rsjw> I also have stuttering audio, and I didn't have that problem in 6.9. mfs didn't do anything for me
16:34 < rsjw> I think somebody identified the problem with a change of firefox version, and I think it came about about then for me too
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16:35 < rsjw> although the problem also occurs with mpv so who knows
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16:39 < finkfox> lts: yes I do see /tmp/mozilla/firefox with profile subfolder and current timestamp
16:41 < finkfox> rsjw: did you try to mfs tmp folder solution?
16:41 < rsjw> I believe I did, but it was a while ago so I'm not certain
16:41  * finkfox is so tired of bloatware
16:42 < Bradipo> What is this about mfs and firefox?
16:42 < rsjw> somebody proposed using an mfs file system for /tmp to not get audio stuttering
16:42 < finkfox> solution described here https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=165990856617479&w=2
16:42 < rsjw> on the mailing lists
16:43 < rsjw> I tried mfs somewhere, that's for certain, I think it was on /tmp, I'm not certain about that
16:43 < pardis> I have my doubts about whether mfs for cache will do anything that softdep on /home and kern.bufcachepercent=90 will not
16:43 < rsjw> yeah me too. it doesn't check out. you shouldn't need mfs to play audio
16:43 < Bradipo> It's a pity FF hammers the disk so much.  Seems like they are doing lame things.
16:44 < pardis> it does check out, it's just achievable in other ways
16:44 < Bradipo> I've not had audio stuttering problems, but I do notice that FF can cause my kernel to panic under certain conditions.
16:44 < finkfox> pardis: never knew about "kern.bufcachepercent=90", I guess I should try that?
16:44 < rsjw> firefox causing your kernel to panic would be a kernel bug, not necessarily firefox
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16:44 < pardis> the I/O subsystem is biglocked, so if your cache is on a filesystem with mount options causing it to hit the disk a lot, anything else that is biglocked will suffer in performance
16:45 < pardis> mfs doesn't hit the disk at all because it's in memory
16:45 < Bradipo> rsjw: Oh indeed, it is a kernel bug.  But it only happens when I access certain websites in FF.
16:45 < pardis> but you can make ffs hit the disk less with softdep and kern.bufcachepercent=90
16:45 < pardis> finkfox: can't hurt to give it a try
16:46 < pardis> well, it can, apparently there are bugs in certain edge cases, but I've never encountered them
16:46 < pardis> said bugs are the only reason it isn't the default
16:46 < finkfox> pardis: I need to reboot for "kern.bufcachepercent=90" to take effect? I hardly work with sysctl ...
16:46 < pardis> no, you don't
16:47 < finkfox> k
16:47 < rsjw> is there documentation that describes what kern.bufcachepercent does?
16:47 < pardis> sysctl(2)
16:47 < Bradipo> Though, making /tmp an mfs and having vm.swapencrypt.enable=1 might be useful in those situations where the entire drive isn't protected with encrypted softraid?
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16:49 < Bradipo> If that's the case, then I can stop setting TMPDIR to a location that is encrypted softraid...
16:50 < Bradipo> Because I've never fully believed that everything honors the TMPDIR variable.
16:50 < Bradipo> Though, I have been surprised that many things do.
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16:52 < finkfox> pardis: "kern.bufcachepercent=90" brought some improvement it seems
16:53 < finkfox> still testing it ...
16:53 < finkfox> pardis: thank you
16:53 < finkfox> is there anything else I could try?
16:53 < pardis> do you already have softdep on /home?
16:54 < pardis> softdep on /home reduces writes to disk, kern.bufcachepercent=90 reduces reads from disk
16:54 < finkfox> yep
16:54 < finkfox> I do
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16:55 < rsjw> do I need to restart to make /etc/fstab changes take effect?
16:55 < Bradipo> Depends on what the change is.
16:55 < finkfox> pardis: oh well, now its stuttering again. sounds totally robotic
16:55 < rsjw> softdep on /home and /tmp
16:55 < finkfox> what a mess.
16:56 < finkfox> once I close firefox everything is fine.
16:56 < finkfox> I need another browser.
16:56 < finkfox> lynx?
16:56 < finkfox> :-)
16:56 < Bradipo> rsjw: Depends on how desparate you are for uptime.
16:56 < Bradipo> As long as nothing is open on those filesystems you can just umount/mount them again.
16:57 < Bradipo> Sometimes you can even use "mount -u"
16:57 < finkfox> so do people with more powerful machines have stuttering as well?
16:57 < lts> How weak is your machine then?
16:57 < finkfox> x200
16:57 < Bradipo> Is x200 a laptop?
16:57 < finkfox> yes
16:58 < finkfox> old one
16:58 < rsjw> T450. it's not the strength of the machine. I was able to play videos fine in 6.9
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16:58 < pardis> I don't have (much) stuttering on my T14 Gen 1
16:58 < pardis> and I use firefox as my main browser
16:58 < finkfox> I only figured this problem now trying to play audio via usb bluetooth (creative BT-W2)
16:58 < finkfox> I guess its just back to wire then.
16:58 < pardis> audio will stutter sometimes if loading a heavy page or something
16:59 < rsjw> mine stutters continually
16:59 < pardis> I use a Creative BT-W3 for audio
16:59 < finkfox> do you think it would also be the bluetooth device?
16:59 < pardis> there is no way that could possibly be affected by you running firefox on OpenBSD
17:00 < finkfox> the moment I shut down firefox sound works flawless.
17:01 < rsjw> using what program?
17:01 < pardis> I mean the bluetooth device couldn't be affected by that
17:01 < Bradipo> So just having FF open, doing nothing, impacts the audio?
17:01 < Bradipo> Have you looked at "systat io" during these times of stuttering?
17:01 < rsjw> finkfox: ^
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17:03 < rsjw> Bradipo: what would you be looking for in systat io?
17:03 < finkfox> so how can I see what is writing/reading how often from harddrive? (if that is the cause of the problem)
17:04 < finkfox> or, how to debug this problem further?
17:04 < Bradipo> A lot of disk I/O.
17:04 < finkfox> I did run "sndiod -ddd" but not sure how to interpret the output.
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17:09 < finkfox> there is no way to "constrain" firefox how much resources it uses?
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17:10 < pardis> you could nice(1) it
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17:10 < pardis> although that is unlikely to help much with disk I/O
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17:10 < Bradipo> I've found that nice just prolongs the I/O pain. :-)
17:11 < thrig> not running firefox is a good way to not use CPU and memory
17:11 < finkfox> hehe
17:11 < Bradipo> Sadly, Chrome isn't any better.
17:11 < finkfox> I tried to use console browsers so many times
17:11 < finkfox> but never got used to it
17:12 < pardis> do you use uBlock Origin or similar? if you block some stuff from loading, there will be less caching needed
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17:12 < Bradipo> All "modern" browsers these days insist on behaving like they are a mini-OS.
17:12 < finkfox> pardis: yes uBlock is the default
17:12 < rsjw> softdep doesn't affect it for me
17:12 < Bradipo> What is uBlock?  An ad-blocker?
17:12 < lts> Could the audio be given nice(1) priority?
17:13 < pardis> Bradipo: yes, and it also has "annoyance" lists to block some things that aren't ads but add no value to the web
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17:15 < finkfox> lts: I tried to nice my client app (cmus)
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17:16 < Bradipo> I don't rely on my browser to implement "ad-blocking".
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17:17 < Bradipo> I just maintain my own DNS RBL, then all devices on my network take advantage of it.
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17:21 < lts> Doing both here, unbound(8) is great for it and sometimes uBlock Origin algoritms catch other annoyances
17:22 < finkfox> so I'm running both "sndiod" and "cmus" with nice value -20. seems to help 
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17:23 < finkfox> what is the proper way to run a utility with specific nice without root?
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17:24 < finkfox> on a side note, what if your favorite commandline music library manager with openbsd?
17:24 < finkfox> i guess cmus is somewhat a standard?
17:26 < dayid> finkfox: any user can +nice their own processes, just not below-0 w/o root. What do you mean with the "specific nice without root"? You can just launch them with nice, like `nice -n 10 firefox`
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17:28 < rsjw> nice -n -10 firefox gives an error "nice: setpriority: Permission denied" so it looks like you do need root
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17:29 < pardis> you only need root if raising a process's priority
17:29 < pardis> which makes sense
17:29 < lts> Was it ever a great idea to mark higher priority with a smaller number :-(
17:30 < finkfox> could start the utility, then call "doas renice -n -20 <process_id>"
17:30 < pardis> if you want firefox to sap even more of the system's resources, sure
17:30 < finkfox> obviously I do not to run cmus as root
17:30 < pardis> oh, you want to renice the thing that isn't firefox
17:30 < finkfox> right, i want to renice "cmus" music client
17:31 < finkfox> which seems to stop the stuttering
17:31 < lts> Do you need to renice cmus, or just the sndio audio server?
17:31 < finkfox> or at least improve it a lot
17:31 < pardis> sndiod runs with a lowered nice by default
17:31 < finkfox> lts: I have both "sndiod" and "cmus" on -20
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17:37 < rsjw> I changed the priority of the firefox process to 10 but ps -A -O pri shows it's still at 2
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17:38 < rsjw> do the renice and ps priorities mean something differnt?
17:39 < finkfox> would lowering firefox nice priority have same effect as increasing audio server/client?
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17:41 < Bradipo> I really doubt that nice values are going to help here...
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17:42 < IcePic> rsjw: nice level and prio is not the same
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17:43 < IcePic> which is easily visible in "top" since they have separate columns
17:43 < Bradipo> Yeah, well, I've often been confused on that...
17:43 < Bradipo> Especially since the man page says:
17:43 < Bradipo> nice - execute a utility with an altered scheduling priority
17:43 < IcePic> the nice value will affect the priority, but they are not the same
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17:44 < Bradipo> Ok, seems like splitting hairs, but I think I see what you're trying to say.
17:44 < finkfox> could do something like "pgrep cmus | xargs -I {} doas renice -n -20 {}"
17:44 < Bradipo> nice != priority, but maybe more like nice way to get a different priority.
17:44 < finkfox> also, ever since upgrading to 7.3 I have the feeling my athn0 wireless connection is less reliable.
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17:47 < finkfox> anyone else using "creative BT-W2" bluetooth stick?
17:48 < finkfox> when a song has finshed playing and I select a new one, it is acompanied with an annoying "beep" sound
17:48 < finkfox> I guess because the bluetooth connect is waking up again?
17:48 < Bradipo> I didn't think OpenBSD supported Bluetooth...
17:49 < pardis> it doesn't
17:49 < pardis> the Creative BT-W2 does
17:49 < pardis> finkfox: I have no such beep with my BT-W3, but it could be your bluetooth receiver's way of signalling that the connection is being reestablished
17:50 < finkfox> pardis: yeah I guess there is nothing I can do about it :-(
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17:50 < finkfox> just never stop playing music
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17:50 < lts> Cast away the horror that is bluetooth, and return to path of wires
17:50 < IcePic> interesting to start one "nice md5 -tttt" and one without nice, and then watching top move the prio around
17:51 < finkfox> lts: you are probably right, yes indeed.
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17:52 < finkfox> I also would like to trash bloated browsers.
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17:52 < Bradipo> lts: Haha, yeah, I tend to prefer wires over wireless for music too.
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18:04 < finkfox> i'm currently using atheros AR9285 PCIe card. gettings lots of device timeouts, and looking for a better, more reliable card. any recommendations?
18:04 < finkfox> (wifi)
18:06 < pardis> doesn't the X200 normally come with an iwn(4)?
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18:11 < finkfox> pardis: yes, I think I replaced it for atheros some time, for free software driver
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18:13 < oldlaptop> Welp, the iwn(4) will be more reliable in practice.
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18:13 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD's driver for it is also "free software".
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19:11 < clicker> hi everyone, i'm having a recurring issue with my monitor not coming out from sleep even across reboots, which forces me to reinstall OBSD to fix it. any ideas on what log files would be useful to diagnose this? i've checked dmesg over ssh and nothing looks out of the ordinary. the second time it happened i didn't even have xenodm enabled, i was
19:11 < clicker> just running X with startx to test some things. i really really love openbsd but this is gonna be a huge issue for me if i can't fix it :/
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19:14 < clicker> interestingly enough even booting in single user mode doesn't fix the issue, i get some initial dmesg output on the screen until it gets to the part where it's supposed to switch display modes and use my GPU before starting services and reordering the kernel, then i just get a black screen with the backlight on. ssh will allow me to connect, but
19:14 < clicker> that doesn't help me much besides allowing for log collection
19:14 -!- piotr is now known as Filystyn
19:14 < Filystyn> what does the kern.nprocs   "fd table" what is that
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19:16 < clicker> ?
19:16 < rsjw> Filystyn: are you asking what kern.nprocs is? sysctl(2) says. (man 2 sysctl) are you asking what an fd table is? it's the file descriptor table
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19:17 < rsjw> clicker: have you checked /var/log/Xorg.0.log?
19:18 < Filystyn> I don't get what purpose is  of that fd table
19:18 < clicker> i just reinstalled but i'll try to recreate the issue and then check that log, thanks
19:19 < rsjw> Filystyn: file descriptor tables exist to keep track of which file descriptors refer to which open files, pipes, sockets, or whatever else the operating system identifies using file descriptors
19:19 < Filystyn> I might try to open even 100k fds (seting kern.proc)and was thinkign would resizing the table have any influence on sysworking ( ofc i also change login.conf )
19:20 < Filystyn> meaby we might need bigger
19:21 < Filystyn> why would there be table size to set that keeps track of them when you can also with other option just let your self to open more
19:21 < rsjw> sysctl(2) says kern.nprocs is "The number of entries in the kernel process table." that's not the file descriptor table, that's how many processes the kernel can reference
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19:21 < Filystyn> what does that mean. 
19:22 < thrig> ps and top have get the goods from ... somewhere
19:22 < Filystyn> you mean the process it self max ammount of it ?
19:22 < rsjw> each process is identified by a process ID, which is just a number. each number would need an entry in the process table
19:22 < Filystyn> ok i get it
19:22 < Filystyn> thx this is important!
19:23 < clicker> interesting.. i just installed my drivers and set up my doas.conf and hostname.iwx0 files and the issue happened again. i haven't even ran xorg on here yet so i'm super confused how this is happening. maybe it's an amd polaris driver issue?
19:24 < clicker> i'll try reinstalling and making sure i delete the amdgpu.tgz in my firmware archive thumbdrive (because i don't really need the GPU that much anyways i don't think) and see if that changes anything
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19:30 < Filystyn> rsjw ok so why do we also have kern.maxproc
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20:14 < rsjw> Filystyn: it seems that kern.maxproc is the limit and kern.nprocs is the number of processes currently on the system
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20:16 < rsjw> (I would say "currently running on the system" but I don't want that confused with the runnable state of processes)
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20:21 < Filystyn> mm what do you mean, for example one is for user loged to system and other as a whole ?
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20:22 < rsjw> I think they're both for the system as a whole
20:24 < Filystyn> ok your right
20:24 < Filystyn> checke dit i was like sure it was static number but it's not
20:25 < rsjw> you get a number close to sysctl kern.nprocs if you do ps -Ak | wc -l
20:26 < Filystyn> hm it apears thread as seen as process ?
20:26 < Filystyn> is seen*
20:26 < rsjw> (you have the wc reporting one extra because the first line of ps is a header, not a process, and wc is an extra process)
20:27 < rsjw> it seems so
20:27 < rsjw> but those are "kernel threads", not user threads
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20:27 < Filystyn> ok, il check manualy later with user
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20:27 < Filystyn> thank you very much
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20:28 < Filystyn> Ill probably read whole sysctl 2  later to learna  bit more.
20:28 < uuaaeeii> rsjw, sorry for the long delay. Had to work before I could troubleshoot further. Was finally able to capture it with my phone. "booting" sr0a"/bsd 17001676+4125712+359472+0+1228800=015bf400
20:28 < uuaaeeii> entry pint a 0xfffffff81001000" before it reboots again. Still unable to boot into bsd.booted or bsd.sp
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21:13 < rsjw> uuaaeeii: I'm not really that knowledgable on this early boot stuff, but you could try running boot -c instead of bsd and then disabling devices until you find it works. maybe the kernel modesetting is messing up and if you disable that it'll default to vesa or something, I'm not sure
21:13 < rsjw> http://man.openbsd.org/man8/amd64/boot.8 http://man.openbsd.org/boot_config
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21:49 < uuaaeeii> no luck running boot -c sadly. I appreciate the help so far. Going to read those man pages further to see if I can figure it out
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22:29 < rsjw> egdb can't find debugging symbols in sysctl. I thought things were built with -g by default so that debugging symbols are available. is this incorrect?
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--- Log closed Fri Apr 28 00:00:07 2023