--- Log opened Fri Apr 28 00:00:07 2023
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00:27 < xtile> Upgrade to 7.3 was simple. \o/
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00:29 < tux0r> as always!
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03:32 < vortexx> damn, even 12G of ram isn't enough to compile www/mozilla-firefox these days... Going to try with 16G for that VM
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06:24 < vortexx> 16G did it, 13G would probably be enough, just. gkrust to blame...
06:24 < lts> Did you compile with multiple threads?
06:26  * oldlaptop would normally guess at ~1GiB per gcc process, but who knows about linking
06:27 < oldlaptop> or clang nowadays, I guess - can't say that I've a good idea at how different clang's memory usage is
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06:32 < vortexx> lts: yes, 8 threads
06:32 < lts> That's the cause
06:33 < lts> e.g. Gentoo recommendation is 2GB RAM per thread
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06:34 < vortexx> yeah I figured it might be, used to work before 7.3 but I guess the requirements are creeping up again
06:34 < vortexx> zabbix graphs show ~12-13G in use when compiling firefox with 8 threads
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06:38 < renaud> good news, it seems that someone made OpenBSD boot on Oracle cloud
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07:02 < IcePic> renaud: neat, you can run two semilarge instances (arm64) for free there, with ext ip and all.
07:02 < pony> I wonder if my oracle cloud is still free
07:02 < pony> since I haven't touched it in ages
07:02 < IcePic> I think it is
07:03 < pony> yay
07:03 < IcePic> was 3 months ago at least
07:03 < IcePic> for me
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07:24 < renaud> it's still free, but they are actively reclaiming unused servers
07:26 < renaud> if you don't use enough CPU or network, they will reclaim the servers
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07:30 < IcePic> I cn build ports if need be... =)
07:30 < IcePic> can*
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07:32 < renaud> those arm64 instance could be very good for building ports, you can set a 24Gb ram one
07:32 < renaud> unfortunately, we cannot cross compile ports
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08:04 < Voyager_MP> Im thinking about vxlan, has anyone used it ? 
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08:18 < renaud> Voyager_MP: vxlan works just fine, as it should
08:19 < Voyager_MP> @renaud I don't really understand how it works after all
08:19 < Voyager_MP> for testing, I'm trying to bring up a tunnel between my laptop and my fw 
08:20 < Voyager_MP> vxlan0: flags=8802<BROADCAST,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 lladdr fe:e1:ba:d4:01:80 index 14 llprio 3 encap: vnetid 5 parent none txprio 0 rxprio outer groups: vxlan tunnel: inet 192.168.1.1 --> 10.192.41.100 ttl 1 nodf Addresses (max cache: 100, timeout: 240): inet 10.1.1.1 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.1.1.255 
08:20 < Voyager_MP> vxlan0: flags=8802<BROADCAST,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 lladdr fe:e1:ba:d0:6b:48 index 12 llprio 3 encap: vnetid 5 parent none txprio 0 rxprio outer groups: vxlan tunnel: inet 10.192.41.100 --> 10.192.20.1 ttl 1 nodf Addresses (max cache: 100, timeout: 240): inet 10.1.1.100 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.1.1.255 
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08:20 < Voyager_MP> the firewall and the laptop are connected via ike
08:21 < Voyager_MP> on the vxlan there is no traffic, when doing a tcpdump 
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08:24 < finkfox> on my wifi atheros AR9285 rev 2 (1T1R) I see following message with debug enabled: 
08:24 < Voyager_MP> route -n get 10.1.1.1    route to: 10.1.1.1 destination: 10.1.1.1        mask: 255.255.255.255   interface: vxlan0  if address: 10.1.1.100    priority: 3 ()       flags: <HOST,DONE,LLINFO,CLONED>      use       mtu    expire       12         0       -37  
08:24 < finkfox> athn0: missed beacon threshold set to 30 beacons, beacon interval is 100 TU
08:24 < finkfox> also, since upgrade to 7.3 I have the notion I get more "device timeouts"
08:24 < Voyager_MP> ping 10.1.1.1 PING 10.1.1.1 (10.1.1.1): 56 data bytes ping: sendmsg: Network is down 
08:25 < finkfox> thinking to get a new PCIe card. I had chosen atheros because driver software is free.
08:26 < finkfox> "man athn" lists other models, e.g. AR9280 or AR9287
08:26 < finkfox> I wonder if I would have the same troubles?
08:26 < finkfox> should I go back to "iwn" based card?
08:27 < finkfox> there seem to be also problems with iwn however, https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=165501524710914&w=2
08:27 < finkfox> what is your experience?
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08:37 < renaud> Voyager_MP: one one: inet 192.168.1.1 --> 10.192.41.100 and the other 10.192.41.100 --> 10.192.20.1
08:39 < Voyager_MP> right now laptop: tunnel: inet 192.168.41.100 --> 10.192.40.1 ttl 1 nodf
08:39 < Voyager_MP> FW: tunnel: inet 10.192.40.1 --> 10.192.41.100 ttl 1 nodf
08:40 < Voyager_MP> wait, my fault
08:40 < Voyager_MP> laptop: tunnel: inet 10.192.41.100 --> 10.192.40.1 ttl 1 nodf
08:41 < Voyager_MP> firewall: tunnel: inet 10.192.40.1 --> 10.192.41.100 ttl 1 nodf
08:41 < Voyager_MP> but still nothing
08:44 < Foxy_> renaud: have you some docs/blog post about running OpenBSD on Oracle Cloud ?
08:44 < renaud> did you allow vxlan protocol in the firewall?
08:45 < renaud> Foxy_: no, someone posted a patch recently, check on tech@
08:45 < Voyager_MP> I did, set skip on vxlan0 on both ends 
08:46 < renaud> Foxy_: https://marc.info/?t=168071275700001&r=1
08:46 < renaud> you need to allow the protocol too
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08:48 < Voyager_MP> what is the protocal name ? 
08:48 < Foxy_> renaud: thanks for the post
08:49 < Voyager_MP> It udp 
08:49 < renaud> vxlan           4789/udp                        # VXLAN
08:50 < renaud>  /etc/services is always there to help :)
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08:50 < Voyager_MP> its the port 
08:51 < Foxy_> great, a simple oneline patch to boot OpenBSD on Oracle CLoud :)
08:51 < Voyager_MP> ok, never the less I passed in quick from each other 
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08:54 < renaud> Voyager_MP: do a tcpdump on that port to check if packets are received
08:54 < renaud> and replied to
08:55 < renaud> also, did you configure a network in your vxlan?
08:55 < renaud> ah, yes, you didd
08:55 < Voyager_MP> inet 10.1.1.100 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.1.1.255 
08:55 < Voyager_MP> inet 10.1.1.1 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 10.1.1.255 
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08:57 < renaud> check if packate are exchanged on port 4789
08:58 < renaud> /packets/
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10:20 < Voyager_MP> I managed to get it running with point to point, but not via mulitcast 
10:21 < Voyager_MP> do I need to change the local pf.conf in order to join a mcast group ? 
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11:02 < renaud> Voyager_MP: afaik, you only need to ensure multicast is sent through the vxlan interface
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11:05 < IcePic> on the other hand. the statement "you need to make sure pf.conf is not preventing multicast" is also true
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11:05 < renaud> indeed
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11:49 < lavaball> is stage3 musl multilib or 64?
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11:51 < renaud> lavaball: wrong channel? you expecte #gentoo ?
11:51 < lavaball> oh.
11:51 < lavaball> in deed.
11:51 < lavaball> mybad.
11:51 < lavaball> thanks.
11:51 < sibiria> get him
11:51 < sibiria> hold him down
11:51 < sibiria> i'll tickle his feet
11:52 < lavaball> gay.
11:52 < schillingklaus> once upon a time, there was a gentoo-openbsd.
11:52 < lavaball> there was a what what?
11:54 < schillingklaus> a kernel extracted from openbsd with gentoo tools and gnu userland grafted upon... of course a horrible story
11:55 < renaud> There was a Debian/OpenBSD
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11:55 < schillingklaus> that too... of course, it also failed badly
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11:56 < renaud> I think I installed it once to check
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11:56 < renaud> note that apt is still one of the very best package managers
11:56 < pardis> there was never a Debian port to OpenBSD
11:56 < pardis> only FreeBSD and NetBSD
11:56 < pardis> per https://www.debian.org/ports/
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11:57 < pardis> Debian GNU/kFreeBSD actually worked quite well, I used it as my daily driver for a year or so
11:57 < renaud> pardis: or maybe it was killed in the egg and I tried Debian/NetBSD
11:58 < renaud>  it's so old and was not very useful
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11:58 < schillingklaus> these hybrids are naturally quite difficult to maintain
11:59 < pardis> no more difficult than smooshing GNU and Linux together
11:59 < pardis> the only real difference is that there are a lot more people working on smooshing GNU and Linux together
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11:59 < lavaball> so as usual a hack above a hack.
11:59 < renaud> https://lwn.net/2001/0215/a/debian-openbsd.php3
11:59 < renaud> php3  :D
12:00 < pardis> oh wow
12:00 < pardis> I suppose it was just not official enough to get into their list of ports
12:01 < renaud> honestly, that's more than 20 years ago, I don't remember :)
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12:02 < renaud> I tried once to build a linux with the OpenBSD libc, but that was a nightmare
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12:03 < pardis> I tried something similar
12:03 < pardis> the most obvious problem I encountered is that Linux considers /usr/include/sys part of libc, whereas in OpenBSD those are kernel headers
12:03 < pardis> so you really need a Frankenlibc with bits of musl to provide those interfaces
12:04 < renaud> maybe the work in android could make it easier nowadays, but I don't see the point anymore
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12:07 < schillingklaus> there are other linux-compatible libc: musl, dietlibc,... I guess they won't work with openbsd at all
12:09 < renaud> OpenBSD/Hurd
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12:10 < pardis> I once saw someone actually suggest that (for "security")
12:10 < renaud> well, a microkernel might actually be more secure, but we have proofs that id doesn't work :)
12:10 < avemestr> I recall a sad song about that: "I hurd myself today".....
12:11 < schillingklaus> how abou minix with openbsd userland?
12:11 < pardis> a microkernel OS with a network stack stolen from Linux 2.0 is probably not very secure
12:11 < renaud> QNX has a microkernel
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12:20 < renaud> ah, yes, I remember, the Debian OpenBSD was still made when OpenBSD didn't use elf binaries
12:21 < renaud> so before 3.4
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12:23 < schillingklaus> hard forks seem more easily to take off, although thet all vanish into obscurity
12:23 < renaud> it was more or less useless anyway
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13:41 < seninha> Hi, #openbsd. I just want to say that xfiles, a project of mine for a GUI file manager written in plain xlib (no dependencies besides the base installation) can now be pkg_add'ed on -current! So you can try it out!
13:41 < sewn> Yay woohoo
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13:43 < drobban> seninha: gj
13:44 < oldlaptop> so new it's not even on openports.pl yet? :D
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13:45 < seninha> oldlaptop: yeah its database has not been updated yet
13:45 < seninha> i use xfiles to navigate the file system and drag-and-drop thefile i want to the web browser
13:46 < oldlaptop> that's one freaky-looking font https://github.com/phillbush/xfiles/blob/master/demo.png
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13:47 < oldlaptop> I would have asked how it avoids depending on an icon set, but https://github.com/phillbush/xfiles/tree/master/icons :D
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13:50 < seninha> yeah, the icons are compiled into the binary
13:50 < seninha> (a new version will read .xpm from xresources)
13:52 < seninha> The pie menu is also on the ports (xfiles calls a script on right-click, you can use that to spawn a menu): https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2021-03-12-potw-pmenu.html
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13:58 < seninha> oldlaptop: that's the font on my system, on yours it'll use whatever fontconfig tells it to use
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14:04 < pardis> so no need to take affont
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14:14 < rsjw> I'm trying to build a kernel and I'm trying out some kernel options. I added DDBPROF and GPROF but linking gave an error that it couldn't find the symbol db_prof_on, which is defined in /usr/src/sys/ddb/db_prof.c. looking in /usr/src/sys/conf/files, it looks like db_prof.c need DDBPROF and not GPROF. what's the difference between these two and why is there an incompatibility?
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14:15 < IcePic> GPROF is stuff for the gnu profiler, where DDB is the in-kernel debug console thing
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14:16 < rsjw> options(4) says GPROF is for kernel profiling too
14:17 < IcePic> sure, I think it is a kind of "format" for profiling info, which you can run gprof(1) over later
14:19 < rsjw> so DDBPROF is for getting profiling information while you're at the ddb prompt then?
14:21 < coyote> seninha: thank you for xfiles! i was previously using thunar for drag-and-drop and was mildly annoyed that i had to install so many packages just for it so it's perfect for me :D
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14:24 < seninha> coyote: nice! i hope you like using it :)
14:25 < seninha> and check the manual on how to configure actions for when you drag-and-drop files between xfiles windows
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14:35 < Voyager_MP> howto filter traffic with tcpdump on an enc interface ? 
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15:06 < rsjw> Voyager_MP: correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think tcpdump filters traffic
15:07 < Voyager_MP> no, like greping 
15:07 < Voyager_MP> -l I found it 
15:08 < rsjw> maybe -i
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15:13 < BadCoderFinger> seninha:  I love it when a makefile fits on one screen!
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15:15 < thrig> a 9024x6016 with a 6-point font is fitting on one screen
15:15 < sibiria> <gnu autotools> are you calling me obese
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15:15 < eea> hope that is at least a 4 meter screen
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15:19 < thrig> probably a 6" screen in a few years, the rate these things are going
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15:21 < BadCoderFinger> thrig:  True, but aside from my mbp, my laptops have 1920x1080.  Sooner or later, I'll get one with a decent screen.
15:22 < thrig> this one is 2256x1504 and terrible. I'd be happier with a 1024x768 or so
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15:24 < sibiria> to me fullhd is a good resolution at 14", but certainly nothing smaller
15:25 < sibiria> for laptop at circa arm's length away, that is
15:25 < BadCoderFinger> I had a Toshiba laptop with a 4k screen, but the hinge broke, messing up the video, and now it's relegated to being a server.
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16:00 < vortexx> thrig: are you using a frame.work laptop to have that resolution?
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16:00 < vortexx> have you used a desktop environment that does 1.5 scaling properly?
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17:43 < Voyager_MP> ifconfig vxlan0 tunnel 192.168.1.100 192.168.1.200
17:44 < Voyager_MP> Do these IP addresse reflect on local address of the system or doas it need to be an extendet ip 
17:44 < Voyager_MP> I dont really understand this 
17:45 < Voyager_MP> Example: FW: 5.6.7.9 VLAN: 10.199.20.1    
17:47 < Voyager_MP> Other FW-b: 10.0.3.1 S2S VPN to FW: 10.199.41.100/16
17:47 < Voyager_MP> Now I would like to have the VLAN 10.199.20.0/24 on FW-B 
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18:21 < morpho> I'd like to move toward OpenBSD but I need to make sure that I can run GIMP and Scribus? I actuall already use sndio, cwm and mg so i'd like to embrace more of the amazing openbsd ecosystem  
18:22 < namtsui> yes both gimp and scribus are available as packages
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18:23 < oldlaptop> see e.g. https://openports.pl/search?pkgname=GIMP ; https://openports.pl/search?pkgname=Scribus
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18:25 < morpho> Im on a thinkpad x270, will I have graphics drivers, I've not had to fuck around with xorg shit in years... all I have had to do on linux is install a package and everything works. 
18:26 < oldlaptop> I would expect that to work, yes.
18:26 < morpho> amazing, thanks man.
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18:28 < ty3r0x> how do I enable multiprotocol BGP in openbgpd?
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19:51 < morpho> can I amplify client volume with sndio, like add gain to quiet audio source so I can hear them on my laptop speakers?
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20:06 < morpho> is it possible to add gain to audio source with sndio
20:06 < morpho> amplify beyond level=1 in any way
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20:08 < dkeav> maybe with aucatctl? not sure
20:08 < dkeav> https://openports.pl/path/audio/aucatctl
20:09 < morpho> aucatctl firefox0=200, 200: not in 0..127
20:09 < morpho> I have tried the very obvious
20:09 < morpho> i think...
20:13 < pardis> I suspect the answer is no, given that doing this correctly requires having a compressor in sndiod, and sndiod aims to be small and fast on all hardware
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20:21 < dkeav> did you try 127, thats 27 more than 100...
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20:24 < morpho> 127 in aucatctl is equivalent to =1 in sndioctl
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20:28 < morpho> pardis: thankyou, i am glad it does not do this by default
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21:09 < dkeav> bah, was hoping it was like turning the amp to 11
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22:32 < sarahs> Hi all, I've upgraded 7.1 - 7.2 - 7.3 and now my Ansible (Debian) can't seem to reach it anymore, while SSH manually works. And I'm totally lost. Could someone please check this log and tell me what I could do to have Ansible working again? https://pastebin.com/F3PAtsTq
22:34 < meena> sarahs: what ssh plugin in ansible are you using?
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22:34 < phy1729> did you run pkg_add -u yet?
22:35 < sarahs> i knew i forgot something!
22:35 < sarahs> let me try that
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23:04 < sarahs> phy1729: ok guess that worked. thanks.
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23:23 < rsjw> if you compile your own kernel or base or xenocara, is using binary packages still an option?
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23:23 < pardis> yes
23:23 < pardis> provided you don't customise the system to the point that they no longer work, of course
23:24 < rsjw> how would you know if you did? or is it one of those things where you'd know if you went too far?
23:24 -!- archpc6 is now known as archpc
23:25 < thrig> or you could revert the changes, do the updates, then apply your changes back on top of that ... might be easier to patch in the updates and rebuild
23:26 < pardis> rsjw: if you are just building a GENERIC kernel and stock base/xenocara source, you are not customising the system at all
23:27 < pardis> if you are modifying source code, you should know what you are doing well enough to answer that for yourself
23:27 < rsjw> I built a custom kernel based off of GENERIC.MP with some added options(4) and removed unused devices
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23:28 < pardis> that is unsupported, so it will probably be fine, but if it isn't you get to solve any and all problems yourself
23:28 < rsjw> yeah, I didn't mean the question to cover arbitrary source changes. when you do source changes you've got to know what you're doing
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23:35 < brocashelm> i am new to openbsd. just wondering, are there graphical packages for managing software (i just know of pkg_mgr, but it's not exactly what i was thinking of) and managing network connections (like connman, dhcpcd-ui, or wicd)?
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23:36 < brocashelm> i currently have an xfce 4.16 desktop that i'm trying to resintall as many of my packages on
23:37 < brocashelm> and, can other inits like runit be used? i seem to recall that i could install it with pkg_add, but how do i make it my init to replace sysvinit?
23:37 < pardis> there is no sysvinit, and replacing /sbin/init is not supported
23:38 < pardis> I don't know of any graphical package or network management tools for OpenBSD, but the CLI is very approachable
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23:39 < rsjw> a search on openports.pl in the sysutils category turned up appmanager, which might be the kind of thing you're looking for
23:39 < brocashelm> i heard something about appmanager that is like debian's synaptic, but i don't believe it's working correctly on my setup
23:39 < brocashelm> this repo: https://tildegit.org/solene/AppManager
23:39 < jak3b> works fine in mine
23:39 < brocashelm> how would i go about installing it from a binary file? just extract the contents to their respective dirs?
23:40 < rsjw> pkg_add appmanager
23:40 < brocashelm> i do not think i had that on my repo
23:41 < rsjw> what do you mean by "your" repo
23:41 < brocashelm> the default repo url on the openbsd install
23:41 < oldlaptop> https://openports.pl/path/sysutils/appmanager should be there (and has been there long enough to be in two releases now)
23:41 < brocashelm> i tried to run pkg_info -Q appmanager and it didn't turn up
23:41 < brocashelm> ah, perfect
23:42 < oldlaptop> godot isn't even ONLY_FOR_ARCHS amd64 or anything
23:43 < pardis> you need -aQ with pkg_info if running -stable
23:44 < pardis> otherwise it only searches the packages-stable repo, which contains only updates to packages since the release was made, but not the packages built at release time
23:45 < oldlaptop> (godot for random GUI applications is an... interesting idea. Sounds not entirely unlike the experience you'd have gotten with tcl/tk 25 years ago (or would still get now): https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2022-05-05-i-wrote-a-gui-frontend-with-a-game-engine.html)
23:45 < oldlaptop> only tcl/tk would have the best sqlite API in any language >:)
23:45 < jak3b> yea b
23:47 < brocashelm> how would i be able to add openports packages? where is the repo list stored in?
23:47 -!- gvg [~dcd@user/gvg] has joined #openbsd
23:48 < rsjw> openports is not a package, it's a website
23:49 < rsjw> the sqlports package gives an SQL database of the ports, if you know how to use SQL
23:49 < pardis> oldlaptop: there is another fairly large difference between godot and tk: https://clbin.com/gfm7L
23:50 < rsjw> or you could install the ports tree from the tarball or cvs and browse it on your computer
23:50 < oldlaptop> All the code behind openports is in packages as well
23:50 -!- an3223 [~user@user/an3223] has joined #openbsd
23:50 < brocashelm> my question is, how do i obtain the packages from the openports web site and install them on my system?
23:50 < pardis> using pkg_add(1)
23:50 < oldlaptop> pardis: (I guess you get some 3D stuff for that, or something)
23:50 < brocashelm> what would be the command for that? pkg_add appmanager?
23:50 < rsjw> yes
23:51 < jak3b> yes
23:51 < brocashelm> did not work
23:51 < brocashelm> said could not find it
23:51 < thrig> also, the packages are not on the openports website
23:51 -!- NiceBird [~NiceBird@185.133.111.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
23:51 < oldlaptop> That could mean you have the system misconfigured, or that your network connection isn't working right. What's in /etc/installurl?
23:52 < brocashelm> https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD
23:52 < brocashelm> ^^^
23:52 < pardis> can you pastebin the output of 'pkg_add -vvv appmanager' somewhere?
23:52 < rsjw> are you able to ping some site on the internet from your openbsd box?
23:52 < brocashelm> yes, internet works on it
23:53 < brocashelm> i am browsing the openports web site with firefox
23:53 < oldlaptop> "All" openports.pl does is let you browse the packages that are built by OpenBSD's ports tree - the same packages that you get from any OpenBSD mirror. (Technically it lets you browse the database you can install in the `sqlports` package, which describes, uh, the packages built by OpenBSD's ports tree.)
23:53 < oldlaptop> The code that does that is in the `ports-readmes-dancer` package
23:54 < brocashelm> https://dpaste.org/4wLG3
23:54 < jak3b> Im running current, its definatley in the repos, I just installed it an hour and a half ago
23:55 < pardis> hang on, quirks-5.5?!
23:55 < pardis> which version of OpenBSD are you running?
23:55 < brocashelm> 7.1
23:55 < pardis> why?
23:55 < oldlaptop> appmanager is in both releases of OpenBSD that are still supported, 7.2 and 7.3.
23:55 -!- gvg [~dcd@user/gvg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
23:56 < brocashelm> because that's the iso i had for a while
23:56 < oldlaptop> It's out of date now, you should replace it.
23:56 < jak3b> do a sysupgrade
23:56 < jak3b> or install 7.3
23:56 < pardis> if you are new to OpenBSD, there is no reason not to install 7.3, which is the current -stable
23:56 < brocashelm> how would i be able to update the distro?
23:56 < brocashelm> on it
23:57 < pardis> either follow https://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade72.html and then https://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade73.html, or reinstall with 7.3
23:57 < brocashelm> i see, wasn't aware
23:58 < oldlaptop> If you don't have anything on the system you want to save, it's probably easier (slightly) to reinstall.
23:58 < jak3b> just reinstall with 7.3
23:58 < rsjw> sysupgrade only does one version at a time, so you'd have to run sysupgrade twice to get to 7.3
23:59 < pony> oh, I forgot to sysmerge after 7.2 -> 7.3
23:59 < jak3b> yea
23:59 < jak3b> I forgot that
23:59 < jak3b> I useally just run current
23:59 < pony> I usually run -stable
23:59 < jak3b> Ill use the stable releases on servers
--- Log closed Sat Apr 29 00:00:08 2023