--- Log opened Wed May 10 00:00:24 2023
00:00 < rsjw> I think the tty does support color because the console messages that you see e.g when you shut down are in color. maybe you just need to write the terminfo entries to make programs work with it
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00:03 < rsjw> oh... you can just set TERM. for instance "TERM=pccon vim file" shows color and "TERM=xterm vim file" shows color too. now it's just a question of which TERM value is appropriate
00:05 < systemdsucks> xterm-256color
00:09 < rsjw> for VTs?
00:11 < rsjw> hmm the description reported by "infocmp pccon" suggests that TERM=pccon is the right choice
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00:13 < pardis> it depends on architecture as well
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00:14 < pardis> another good reason to use X, you get the same experience on every X-supported platform (modulo some performance)
00:14 < thrig> you could tmux for pastebuffers, but xclip or whatever can be handy
00:15 < Bradipo> I've started relying on xclipboard more lately because of browsers.
00:16 < Bradipo> And more specifically web pages that don't allow me to see text to highlight/copy and only provide a javascript button to "copy to clipboard".
00:18 < thrig> yucky...
00:18 < rsjw> it looks like there are a number of OpenBSD consoles, which can be found by cd /usr/share/terminfo; for t in */*; do infocmp `basename $t` | grep OpenBSD; done
00:19 < rsjw> s/consoles/console terminfo desciptions/
00:20 < megeve> rsjw: I tried them all - and found issues w/ htop, midnight commander, emacs etc.
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00:21 < rsjw> megeve: do you know whether they use terminfo? maybe they just assume a certain terminal. or maybe the openbsd descriptions need fixing, who knows
00:21 < megeve> My questions (to be clear) were mainly around the historic reasons for OpenBSD not supporting modern TERMs.  Is there a security reason? 
00:21 < thrig> lack of resources, nobody cares, alternatives exist
00:21 < pardis> of course everything in OpenBSD has a security reason
00:22 < rsjw> what do you mean by a modern TERM?
00:22 < megeve> thrig: that makes sense
00:23 < rsjw> TERM doesn't describe features, terminfo capabilties do.
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00:24 < megeve> rsjw: I am not sure myself what I meant.  But for instance "TERM=pccon mutt" would not yield proper colors et
00:30 < oldlaptop> pccon seems to work on my amd64 systems
00:31 < dlg> xterm-256color has a good chance of working on the console
00:32 < rsjw> pccon works for me with vim but not with mutt
00:32 < oldlaptop> (I won't ever have tried mutt.)
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00:53 < rsjw> ...but when I set ~/.muttrc to specify colors, TERM=pccon mutt works
00:55 < rsjw> unfortunately it doesn't set the colors back to normal on exit :(
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01:06 < megeve> rsjw: thanks for trying. Same with xterm-256color? 
01:09 < rsjw> xterm256-color seems so work well. it shows colors and restores the color on exit
01:09 < rsjw> *seems to
01:09 < thrig> ksh might not reset the terminal fully like zsh will
01:10 < rsjw> what was odd is that with TERM=pccon mutt, after I exited, not even reset(1) fixed the colors
01:11 < rsjw> oh that's probably because I needed TERM=pccon reset lol
01:11 < rsjw> yeah that did it
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01:18 < oldlaptop> that's the other thing, I've always fooled with that by changing it in /etc/ttys
01:19 < oldlaptop> so /everything/ in that session has the same idea of TERM
01:19 < rsjw> yeah I was only setting it per-program invocation because it's faster and easier to test
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03:41 < clicker> hello everyone, does anyone know how i can disable sleep that is for some reason automatically enabled when amdgpu(4) is installed? i've checked and i don't have apmd running, so i'm a bit confused on what's making the system sleep after being untouched for 10ish minutes.
03:41 < rsjw> is it sleeping or just dpms?
03:42 < clicker> i'm actually not sure, i'm a bit bad with suspend/hibernate/sleep terminology and kind of assumed sleep just meant turning the screen off haha, but i guess dpms is probably what's actually happening
03:44 < rsjw> you can change the dpms timeout with "xset dpms num1 num2 num3" but for me at least, it only works when I reduce the time to below 10 minutes - anything longer gets shortened to 10 minutes
03:45 < clicker> hm :/ is there a way to completely disable it? i'd rather just shut my machine down when i have to walk away from it for an amount of time that would actually make me concerned about screen burn
03:46 < rsjw> there's "xset dpms off" but it doesn't work for me (see xset(1))
03:47 < clicker> reading online and it seems that we might have to do a combination of disabling dpms and the built in screensaver using "xset s off"
03:47 < rsjw> or maybe "off" is to set the monitor off... maybe "xset +dpms" disables it
03:48 < clicker> gonna do some testing i'll report back if i figure out a solution that works
03:48 < rsjw> alrighty
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04:22 < clicker> alright i'm back, after running "xset dpms 0 0 0 && xset s off" and leaving my system untouched for about 30 minutes, the screen is still on! hurrah!
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04:23 < rsjw> great! I'm trying with xset s off as well, as that's probably the issue, but I'll have to wait until I'm not using the computer to actually test it
04:24 < clicker> there are some equivalent options that you can use in xorg.conf to have it persist, but i'm a bit lazy right now so i may just chuck the commands in CDE's autostart script
04:25 < rsjw> xorg.conf is system-wide anyway. it seems like display timeouts would be something each user would want to set
04:26 < clicker> ideally, but i suppose that doesn't matter as much on a desktop unless you're sharing it with people
04:27 < rsjw> true
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04:28 < clicker> very happy we could figure this out though (at least for me, hope it works for you too!) appreciate you nudging me in the right direction haha
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04:30 < rsjw> yeah I'm pretty happy with it too. I actually had a note in my .xsession above the xset dpms setting saying something to the effect of "this doesn't work", so it was definitely on the list. thanks for the screensaver setting tip
04:31 < clicker> suppose i can go ahead and re-enable apmd now, seems i misunderstood its function anyways. doesn't seem like it does auto hibernating on idle by default anyways
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05:10 < calmclam> Hello, it looks to me like openbsd is using the DRM code from linux in the kernel, is that because the linux DRM code is not under GPL but a more permissive license?
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05:14 < calmclam> Also, I'm curious how much of a chore it is to continuously adapt the linux DRM code to the openbsd kernel?
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05:17 < brocashelm> i mentioned strawberry music player the other day; the openbsd build instructions are official from the maintainer's github, and the program compiled successfully on 7.3-current. i am able to launch it and play music files without any issues. if anyone else would like to give it a shot, the instructions are here: https://github.com/strawberrymusicplayer/strawberry/wiki/Compile-and-install-on-openbsd
05:18 < brocashelm> with that said, please consider adding strawberry to the official ports. it has differed a lot from clementine since its forking (e.g. by focusing more on larger collections/audiophile settings)
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05:21 < rsjw> calmclam: looking through some of the drm sources, it appears to be dual-licensed
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05:22 < rsjw> or at least many parts of it have multiple licenses
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05:30 < rsjw> it looks like it's not always simple https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/intel-gfx/2019-November/220235.html
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05:46 < clicker> does anyone know where i can find the log files for sndiod(8)? i keep having a strange issue where i have to run "doas rcctl restart sndiod" after a reboot to get sound working and i figure any logs available might help me find the root cause of the issue
05:47 < clicker> checked the man pages for both sndiod and sndio and sadly didn't see any log file paths noted
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05:56 < IcePic> clicker: adding one or more -d to sndiod could have a positive effect on error visibility
05:56 < clicker> is there a way i can add that to the arguments that rc starts it with?
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06:00 < calmclam> rsjw: that's unfortunate, thanks
06:03 < IcePic> clicker: rcctl set ...
06:04 < clicker> thank you ^^
06:04 < IcePic> but stopping sndiod with rcctl and then running it manually as root with one or more -d's should also work I guess
06:05 < clicker> perhaps but that may not yield the same issue since it only happens on the first start of sndiod
06:05 < clicker> after that i can restart it as many times as i like and it works great
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06:08 < IcePic> perhaps disable sndiod, reboot, start with -d and see if it says anything useful
06:08 < clicker> oh good idea
06:10 < IcePic> strange that it acts differently on first and next runs, hope you find the cause for it so it can get fixed
06:12 < clicker> yeah it's very strange, if i had to guess off the top of my head though it might be something with my usb audio interface. maybe it's starting with the wrong default device (which is my onboard audio with nothing plugged in) and it fails and switches to the right device on restart
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06:13 < clicker> so actually maybe i should try using the command in the FAQ that sets it to auto switch devices again and see if that helps before i try disabling sndiod and going through logs
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06:52 < Voyager_MP> if the col length of a terminal is 348, how do I align the printf on the right side? tput cup 1 0   printf "%-45.45s\r" "$_l"   tput cup 46 55   printf "%-${_cols}s" "$_r" 
06:55 < Voyager_MP> I would like to split the terminal in neerly the middle, align the left printf left and the right printf right :) sounds stupid :D 
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08:50 < Voyager_MP> Does anyone uses HAProxy for smtp ? 
08:51 < edgars_> Voyager_MP: i used, years ago
08:52 < Voyager_MP> I used relayd until the new cert is ecdsa, relayd can only rsa 
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08:53 < tanyastopguy> has anyone had trouble getting X11 to work in qemu? Is there a guide somewhere? chatgpt couldn't help, I'm getting an error from startx: (EE) no screens found(EE)
08:54 < tanyastopguy> tried with several different -vga std -vga virtio, etc. flags which some people on the freebsd forums suggested might help
08:54 < Voyager_MP> @edgars_ do you remember how to forward the original ip to the backend mailserver ? 
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08:58 < edgars_> Voyager_MP: sorry, dont remember :(
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12:57 < renaud> what kind of IDS do you run on OpenBSD?
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12:59 < gman999> are you asking generally renaud?
12:59 < gman999> there is stuff in security/ like snort
13:00 < gman999> but depedsn on what you're trying to accomplish
13:00 < gman999> host or network IDS?
13:00 < renaud> network IDS to install on a gateway
13:00 < renaud> I only want to have some warnings, graphs
13:00 < renaud> I used snort in the past
13:01 < gman999> afaik snort is still the default choice
13:01 < renaud> I was wondering about suricata, it's also in the ports, but I never used it
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13:02 < gman999> yes... that was the other one i was thinking of
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13:03 < oldlaptop> renaud: Not really what you're asking for, but gkrellm/gkrellmd is nice to have a *live* graph in the corner of your eye
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13:03 < oldlaptop> not just CPU and actual network usage - conveniently pflog is a virtual network interface, etc.
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13:07 < renaud> yes, pflog being a vnic is quite nice, but I never thought about graphing it
13:09 < oldlaptop> Something like an nmap run is usually pretty obvious
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13:15 < eea> +1 for vnstat
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14:50 < byteskeptical> https://blog.koehntopp.info/2023/05/06/50-years-in-filesystems-1984.html
14:51 < Bradipo> What is it lately with this trend to have fonts so large on websites?
14:51 < thrig> looks fine in w3m
14:51 < Bradipo> Just about every website I visit these days I have to scale down to 80--70%.
14:51 < Bradipo> Hahaha, yes, w3m I suppose would not have this issue. :-)
14:52 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: you can set your own font instead of letting sites choose for you
14:52 < thrig> "enshittification" could be applied broadly to the modern web, not in the specific sense Cory used it in
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14:53 < Bradipo> My guess is that all these new websites with large fonts are doing so because normal fonts on mobile devices look terrible.
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14:54 < uwharrie> or the people designing them are all on high DPI displays and don't test elsewhere
14:54 < thrig> smartphones were "oh, this thing can't even display text... ask for a refund"
14:54 < byteskeptical> It's one of the easiest ways to track people on the internet, free fonts 
14:55 < Bradipo> haha, yes, I used to block fonts.googleapis.com
14:57 < byteskeptical> and google took that personally
14:57 < Bradipo> Probably not, but it made my pages load faster. :-)
14:58 < thrig> 50,000? fire 100,000!
14:58 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: without google fonts? that's impossible
14:58 < byteskeptical> thrig: lol
14:59 < byteskeptical> thrig: that's how we know they are sand-bagging with Bard
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15:13 < tommyrot> Bradipo: i have my browser to automatically scale to 110% because i'm old and blind lol
15:15 < Bradipo> tommyrot: I think the entire www must be getting old and blind, at least that's the inference I would make from the majority of websites that seem to now be using huge fonts.
15:16 < pardis> you mean the majority of those websites that still have text on them, rather than just a slideshow of vaguely feel-good images
15:16 < tommyrot> i think we're just looking at mobile ported sites for desktop, the trend has been going on for a decade
15:17 < Bradipo> pardis: Actually, yes, it does seem like a lot of informational websites these days have more image content than text, and that text is using huge fonts.
15:17 < tommyrot> be glad everything isn't a twitter thread instead of some attempt at a coherently published document
15:17 < Bradipo> Twitter: an attempt to pack as many meaningless concepts into as few words as possible.
15:18 < pardis> I actually find well-written Twitter threads more informative than most corporate websites nowadays
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15:18 < rsjw> I'm often able to fix ill-formatted sites with a user style sheet
15:18 < Bradipo> Well, yeah, I think I would expect that.  Most corporate websites aren't there to be useful. :-)
15:26 < thrig> websites have images?
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16:04 < eea> who has more widely adopted "defacto standards" in the wild... ISC or OpenBSD?
16:04 < thrig> unix
16:04 < eea> +1 thrig
16:05 < thrig> I mean they came along later and tried to bolt standards to unix and C
16:05 < eea> heh, and blast fax kudos all around. Bravo OpenBSD
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16:30 < ALchat> Hi
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16:49 < ALchat> Hello, hello, hello, is anybody out there?
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16:49 < rsjw> yes, but people usually don't reply to just "hi"
16:50 < ALchat> What's the purpose of this channel anyway?
16:50 < rsjw> to talk about the openbsd operating system. see the /topic
16:50 -!- djhankb [~djhankb@208.113.164.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:50 < thrig> or, global world domination
16:51 -!- djhankb [~djhankb@208.113.164.68] has joined #openbsd
16:51 < rsjw> oh yeah, forgot about global world domination
16:51 < ALchat> well no incendiary topics allowed, so I guess we'll use AI to dominate the world instead?
16:52 < thrig> John McCarthy invented AI to get money
16:52 < ALchat> I use AI to draw poneys
16:53 < pony> :O
16:54 -!- thenemesis [~thenemesi@2409:4073:4e0a:6f8b:a0ab:9c43:71e2:83a5] has joined #openbsd
16:54 < ALchat> unbelievable
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16:54  * eea points toward #openbsd-social
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17:51 < riceandbeans> lol damn https://www.blackhatethicalhacking.com/news/critical-linux-kernel-flaw-unprivileged-users-gain-root-control/
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17:51 < riceandbeans> Times like this I'm glad my stuff runs pf
17:52 < pony> lol
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17:52 < pony> I feel a lot safer now
17:53 < thrig> but but where are the containers?!1!
17:54 < riceandbeans> Hmmm, can a container have its own distinct firewall rules given that it's sharing the host's kernel?
17:54 < riceandbeans> Anyway, I read about a type of OpenBSD VM I had no idea about until like a week ago
17:54 < riceandbeans> aaaaaaand I closed the browser tab
17:54 < riceandbeans> God damn it
17:55 < thrig> containers might have bridges or something like that
17:55 < sibiria> you can run pf in your openbsd vmd guests if you want
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17:57 < riceandbeans> https://jonwillia.ms/2023/03/20/vmctl-ssh
17:57 < riceandbeans> yeah!
17:57 < riceandbeans> vmd
17:57 < riceandbeans> I had to dig through my history, but I thought that was really cool when I read that one
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17:58 < thrig> I have an alpine linux virt. even turned it on this year
17:59 < oldlaptop> riceandbeans: See https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2023/05/10/3 for details; it appears that if not for "the containers?!!1!" it would be roughly equivalent to a local privlege escalation exploitable by users with rw to /dev/pf
17:59 < riceandbeans> Fancy
18:00 < riceandbeans> oldlaptop: a lot of places still aren't using containers and a lot of places still think containers fix all their security problems and will somehow make their code faster and more efficient :\
18:00 < riceandbeans> Of all the places I've worked, only the 2 big name groups used containers
18:01 < riceandbeans> No one likes me trying to evangelize BSD
18:01 < riceandbeans> In terms of how annoying I am, it's somewhere between Poettering and Stallman
18:03 < thrig> actually, openbsd might benefit from marketing better than what "crumudegeon unix sysadmin" offer
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18:04 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD: no kids left on this lawn
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18:05 < oldlaptop> Maybe steal sqlite's idea: free, functional, and secure: pick any three
18:05 < thrig> finger jmates@thrig.me
18:05 < riceandbeans> jesus christ
18:05 < riceandbeans> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSkCny-HtTw
18:06 < riceandbeans> I was going to say I know all the words to Stallman's song...
18:06 < riceandbeans> And then I found that a group of dudes covered it...
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18:10 < sibiria> catchy
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18:19 < riceandbeans> sibiria: Imagine if Linux kernel releases came out with songs like that to rival the OpenBSD songs...
18:19 < riceandbeans> I'm just saying...you guys have some competition man
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18:19 < sibiria> give the amount of linux dists available, there'd be enough material for an annual competition along the lines of Eurovision Song Contest
18:19 < sibiria> except all of it would probably be worse. a lot worse
18:21 < n4dir> not if you include the distros focused on audio-production. 
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19:32 < moth_> how do openbsd people deal with the intel management engine or the amd platform security processor? is there any practical advice from a security standpoint or do you just throw your hands up in the air at that point?
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19:35 < oldlaptop> I think, practically speaking, the AMD thing isn't nearly as much of a concern.
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19:36 < thrig> arm is a thing
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19:37 < oldlaptop> The ME is concerning over and above other hardware insofar as intel has a track record of using it to implement (say) buggy out-of-band management systems with security flaws
19:37 < oldlaptop> As far as the black helicopters using it to exfiltrate all your secrets...
19:38 < moth_> i wish arm was a thing on all of my machines. realistically speaking, i have to deal with intel cpus.
19:39 < oldlaptop> Why can't the black helicopters use an ARM, or RISCV, or whatever, to exfiltrate your secrets? (You don't know what the factories and fabs and so on are really doing with those, either.)
19:39 < oldlaptop> At a certain point it doesn't repay worring about
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19:44 < moth_> i assume that at least some of you are using openbsd because you're conscious about security and if there's credible evidence of how it can be undermined it should cause concern.
19:44 < moth_> in the same way that i don't trust my mobile phone.
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19:47 < oldlaptop> I'm suggesting it's better to approach hardware with intel's ME as something squishy and (potentially) full of holes that needs to be behind a firewall to be internet-connected than as a tool of the Illuminati conspiracy or something
19:47 < moth_> if i'd laugh it off by thinking of myself as someone worrying that a squad is roping themselves into my home from the building, i might as well use windows.
19:48 < oldlaptop> The latter isn't something you can deal with in any case, including by choosing other hardware. The former *is*: you can buy hardware that doesn't have buggy remote-management features, or firewall it carefully, or...
19:50 < jcs> so ME has been known about for how many years now and how many attacks on it have ever been published?  vs the infinite number of vulnerabilities in browsers, network stacks, ssl libraries, etc.
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19:51 < jcs> it's kind of silly to even worry about it as an attack vector when there are so many other things to worry about
19:52 < thrig> humans worry a lot about sitting in a plane, but sit in a car with no worries
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19:52 < jcs> yeah, and you're much more likely to die on the way to the airport than in the air
19:52 -!- mnour_bsd [~mnour_bsd@77-160-155-87.fixed.kpn.net] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
19:52 < jcs> but people are not rational
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19:55 < jcs> also, who are you to warrant the amount of state-backed effort to compromise a computer remotely via the ME?  they spend millions buying iOS exploits to spy on other countries and van dissidents, not break into some weirdo's computer just to see his hentai porn and watch him idle on irc
19:59 < moth_> lol... okay, i've been compared to someone who worries about 'black helicopters' and now i'm being told that i have 'hentai porn' to hide and that i'm idling on irc all the time. you guys keep doing your thing on irc. see ya.
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20:00 < thrig> projecting the shadow much?
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20:15 < brocashelm> what just happened here
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20:31 < psionic> So 7.4 will only come next year? 
20:31 < psionic> In that case it's time to try 7.3
20:32 < psionic> dont like the shit getting updated too often either, my last test image is 7.0
20:32 < thrig> next year would be 7.5 and 7.6
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20:35 < oldlaptop> Every six-ish months, spring and fall
20:35 < eea> every 6 months, like clockwork
20:35 < oldlaptop> The "like clockwork" changed when CDs went away
20:35 < oldlaptop> usually seems to be earlier than May 1/November 1
20:36 < eea> Einstien tried to explain relativity
20:37 < psionic> is there some good all in one benchmark sute it can run on it? Like the phoronix thing on linux
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20:41 < Bradipo> Speaking of CDs, I miss them.
20:42 < thrig> fix your scope?
20:42 < Bradipo> I prefer archery.
20:43 < oldlaptop> I'm not sure "good" and "all-in-one benchmark suite" are compatible concepts
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20:44 < finkfox> what your favorte commandline music player on openbsd, that allows for good playlist management? I'm currenly using cmus, still getting used to it.
20:45 < oldlaptop> I stopped using anything but mpd on non-smartphone computers a long time ago
20:46 < oldlaptop> (commandline clients include mpc, ncmpc - which is to "ncmpcpp" as C is to C++, roughly)
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20:46 < typicat> ncspot!
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20:48 < brocashelm> cmus is great
20:49 < brocashelm> moc would be my second choice
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20:49 < finkfox> ok thanks will have a look
20:50 < dqk> mpd and ncmpcpp on top altough any client supporting mpd can be used on boxen where ncmpcpp isn't present
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20:54 < hussein1> if i want to write a program that makes ioctls, netintro.4 says "the ioctl is made on a socket" but how do i know which socket?
20:54 < thrig> probably the one you gave as an argument to ioctl
20:55 < hussein1> how do i know which socket to pass as an argument?
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20:55 < thrig> the one you want the ioctl to apply to
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20:59 < n4dir> xmms2 ist not too bad 
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21:01 < psionic> xmms was always bad :D I stay with winamp
21:02 < psionic> I remember using beep media player for a while 
21:02 < n4dir> xmms2 is not xmms
21:02 < psionic> yeah thats the shit which never had a gui by default
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21:02 < n4dir> i wouldn't bet moc or cmus have it. 
21:04 < brocashelm> only gui music player i'd use is strawberry, for the graphical EQ
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21:20 < finkfox> so I tried to install "mpd" but got something like "... (sqlite3-3.41.0): minor is too small" error
21:20 < finkfox> what does this actually mean? I'm on -current.
21:21 < finkfox> do I need to do pkg_add -u? or sysupgrade?
21:22 < Bradipo> You might have to wait a few years for minor to grow up?
21:22 < finkfox> Bradipo: :-)
21:22 < thrig> or raise the 3rd
21:23 < Bradipo> If you raise the 3rd does it become second?
21:23 < finkfox> but seriously, what does the error actually mean precisely?
21:23 < Bradipo> It's comparing a version string to something.
21:23 < Bradipo> Major could be 3, minor 41.
21:23 < Bradipo> Just a guess though.
21:24 < finkfox> the full error is: Can't install mpd-0.23.12 because of libraries
21:24 < finkfox> |library sqlite3.37.23 not found
21:25 < sibiria> it's built against a version of sqlite not available on your mirror (yet)
21:25 < finkfox> | /usr/local/lib/libsqlite3.so.37.22 (sqlite3-3.41.0): minor is too small
21:25 < oldlaptop> Or it is available on your mirror, but you haven't done a `pkg_add - u` in a while
21:25 < oldlaptop> in that case you could pkg_add -u and try again, or use -U
21:25 < sibiria> pkg_add -Ui
21:25 < oldlaptop> (this is what -U is for)
21:26 < psionic> oooo new encrypt disk option gonna try this next time
21:26 < psionic> How long till partition c  will be reserved ? :)
21:26 < psionic> why is c reserved anyway is that theos favorite letter or smth
21:27 < finkfox> ok thank you.
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21:38 < finkfox> what I find cumbersome with cmus: to a track to a playlist, one hast to select the playlist first. it would be nice if the playlist to use would be asked for interactively.
21:38 < finkfox> (to add a track to a playlist)
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21:59 < vortexx> psionic: it goes back much further than just OpenBSD, it's old BSD lore, when it wasn't on PCs iirc (the good old days of VAX)
22:03 < psionic> Is this new feature that it can display disk geometry now in MB/GB with p M or just I didnt notice in the past :>
22:08 < vortexx> nah that's been there for ages and ages
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22:43 < pardis> the origins of c being reserved go back further than BSD, actually
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22:44 < pardis> AT&T UNIX had hardcoded partition layouts in which the third "partition" was used to represent the entire disk (back then disks were small enough and usage patterns standard enough that custom layouts weren't needed)
22:45 < pardis> that eventually evolved into BSD disklabel, but the convention of the third partition being the whole disk never changed
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22:51 < uwharrie> C:\>
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22:56 < jcs> dir /w
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--- Log closed Thu May 11 00:00:12 2023