--- Log opened Wed May 24 00:00:47 2023
--- Day changed Wed May 24 2023
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00:02 < iceman1> back
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00:27 < ariel> i keep getting "ssh: connect to host anoncvs2.usa.openbsd.org port 22: Operation timed out" when trying to update src by cvs. Is this something I screwed up somehow?
00:28 < iceman1> telnet anoncvs2.usa.openbsd.org 22 and see if its open
00:29 < pardis> or try a different mirror
00:30 < ariel> anoncvs4 seems to work, i was just wondering if there was something I broke or if the server was having issues.
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00:35 < thrig> restic seems pretty cromulent for backups
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03:29 < PyR3X> is it possible to use relayd with smtpd for tls?
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03:51 < corigins> PyR3X: anything is possible. I tried both relayd and opensmtpd relay, I found opensmtpd relay more verbose and configurable so I used that instead.
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06:44 < lavaball> ha! foudn the issue. nameserver on the remote and was laggy. switched it out now it works quick and nice.
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07:48 < lavaball> so, even though i have Bind 10.0.0.2 in tiny proxy, it still uses my actual ip. to get it working, i had to proto tcp nat-to 10.0.0.2 rtable 2 user _tinyproxy. boy am i glad that this isn't rocket science!
07:48 < lavaball> let's see if i can get dante working that way as well.
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07:53 < lavaball> yeah, works that way as well. bind to another interface, then change the route with pf. i'll never complain about linux "hack above a hack" mentality again, i can tell you that much.
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08:18 < lavaball> oh, and firefox calls to google in cali everythign i start it. but the weird part is, it does so over the naked connection, not the socks proxy. weird.
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08:24 < terminaldweller> lavaball: iirc some security features use google services. i think "deceptive content and dangerous software protection" under "privacy and security" is one of them.
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09:20 < sibiria> lavaball: can't you just start your browser in a different rdomain to clamp it down?
09:20 < sibiria> or am i misunderstanding what you've been trying to achieve
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10:00 < lavaball> terminaldweller, oh, thanks so much.
10:00 < lavaball> sibiria, first of all, how do i do that? and secondly, no.
10:01 < lavaball> i have a ssh socks5 running. i want to switch to dante, so i can route some urls over wg0 some over wg1. the dante proxy is running on the server box as was the ssh proxy. firefox and all that i start here.
10:01 < lavaball> an ssh ..
10:01 < lavaball> not a.
10:02 < lavaball> though of course i can't do the url routing with dante, if i route the whole user.
10:02 < lavaball> well, i'll find a way.
10:02 < lavaball> either way, this just proves again what i keep saying. openbsd is for desktops, not for servers.
10:05 < xtile> I enjoy OpenBSD on my server.
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10:06 < lavaball> then we won't be getting in any fist fights if they ever offer free openbsd servers for everyone!
10:06 < xtile> :D
10:06 < rk4> i enjoy openbsd on my router, not so much as a desktop [though last i ran it as my desktop encrypted disks were configured with vnconfig -k]
10:07 < sibiria> lavaball: route -T 123 exec /some/program
10:07 < lavaball> ah, okay. that i knew how to do. didn't know it was called starting bla.
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10:08 < lavaball> i do it cooler now though, because i have a use case for aerc running on the server.
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10:10 < lavaball> nat-to 10.0.0.2 rtable 2 and you don't need the whole route business. but you do need nat-to, because openbsd is retarded. doesn't even help to change the route srcaddr. it just doesn't care. i mean why would i use the ip of my interface in the routing table of my choosing?
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10:11 < lavaball> oh, but you do'nt need nat if you start the way you said.
10:11 < lavaball> so we don't have consistency either.
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10:11 < sibiria> tucking the executable into a specific rdomain kinda locks it in there, as far as originating traffic goes
10:12 < sibiria> there's afaik no way for it to break out of there and originate traffic onto another rdomain
10:12 < dlg> it sounds like you have no idea how route lookups behave
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10:14 < lavaball> well, i know that when i ping 10.0.0.2 in linux, it uses 10.0.0.2 and not the address of eth0.
10:15 < dlg> for what?
10:15 < lavaball> so i guess you are right. i have no idea how the work in openbsd.
10:15 < lavaball> oh, meant to write it uses 10.0.0.1.
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10:16 < dlg> so route lookups in openbsd only care about the destination ip
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10:17 < dlg> it literally does not matter where the packet comes from, the destination ip is literally the only information used in the route lookup to pick the outgoing interface
10:17 < lavaball> that is great for openbsd if it doesn't want an answer.
10:17 < dlg> route lookups are also used in socket to decide what source ip to use when connecting unbound sockets
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10:18 < dlg> so if you ping 10.0.0.2, ping will effectively do "route get 10.0.0.2"
10:18 < dlg> and use the "if address" as the source ip for that connection
10:18 < dlg> does that make sense?
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10:20 < lavaball> that i can even get behind. but why doesn't it use 10.0.0.2 as srcaddr when i say use rtable 2, which is wg0 and 10.0.0.1 is the other end.
10:21 < lavaball> especially! when i say route srcaddr 10.0.0.2
10:21 < dlg> route srcaddr is per rdomain
10:21 < dlg> rdomain/rtable
10:21 < lavaball> as i said, rtable 2.
10:22 < lavaball> for it to work i need nat-to and rtable. otherwise it uses table 2, but not the right source.
10:23 < dlg> route -T2 sourceaddr is 10.0.0.2?
10:23 < dlg> or -ifp wg0?
10:23 < lavaball> anyway, that's all fun and games. it works. hack above a hack. here we go. but what do i do with my proxy now? i can't bind it to 10.0.0.2, because meh. i thought tiny proxy did it, but it doesn't give an error it just doesn't use it and goes with re0.
10:23 < lavaball> tried both.
10:23 < lavaball> doesn't care.
10:24 < lavaball> only nat-to in pf works.
10:24 < lavaball> but let's try again. maybe it's magic hour.
10:25 < lavaball> nope. it's re0 address. not re1, re2, not gre0 and definitely not wg0.
10:25 < sibiria> have you inspected your routing contraption to make sure you haven't spilled lava anywhere in it
10:26 < sibiria> it may or may not interfer with nominal function
10:26 < lavaball> you laugh now, but i'm known for my burning seed.
10:26 < sibiria> yow.
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10:27 < lavaball> anyway, it works with nat-to, so nat-to it is. how do i route with dante though, when i can't bind it to wg0 gre0 ... anything non physical basically?
10:27 < lavaball> either way. gotta take pictures. i'll get back to you.
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10:37 < lavaball> 53 days in and i already look like a young beserker!
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11:06 < morpho> I used FreeBSD for a few months. It does not feel very appropriate for Laptop use. Hear-say is OpenBSD works better on laptops out of the box. How good battery lives do people get? Do your systems get hot? Thinkpad x270 btw.
11:06 < sibiria> i'd be surprised if there's any x86 system where openbsd makes a nicer desktop experience than freebsd
11:07 < morpho> it ships with Xorg cwm and sndio out of the install no?
11:08 < sibiria> yes, but there's more to making the desktop aspect pleasant and comfortable
11:09 < renaud> sibiria: out of the box, OpenBSD experience is better than FreeBSD
11:10 < sibiria> power management, video acceleration and sound are three things people regularly ask for help with in here when it comes to laptops
11:10 < lts> This blog author seems happy with OpenBSD on X270 https://www.coreystephan.com/openbsd-thinkpad/
11:10 < renaud> with FreeBSD, you need to install lots of stuff to have it working correctly
11:11 < lavaball> openbsd is the better desktop on any system. don't be ridiculous. freebsd, i thought about it, but i never found a reason to use it. if you want features and eas of use go linux, if you want security, you use openbsd.
11:12 < sibiria> freebsd has working va-api
11:12 < morpho> not that setting up Xorg things is hard... but I just use cwm and sndio anyway
11:12 < sibiria> better video acceleration
11:13 < sibiria> no (or rather less) sound issues than sndiod which is still in its infancy
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11:13 < morpho> power management is the big one
11:13 < lts> morpho: see the blog post above and give it a try. Might be exactly what you are looking for.
11:14 < morpho> thankyou lts
11:16 < sibiria> freebsd also has a bluetooth stack. though i keep hearing that its wifi support is somehow even worse than openbsd's
11:18 < rk4> was mildly amused when i read of fbsd users running linux vms and passing through their wifi card to it
11:23 < sibiria> i remember similar woes back in the day when ne2000 was still a thing
11:24 < sibiria> running some sort of win32-api compatibility layer on linux to get ne2000 driver working
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11:31 < morpho> never used bluetooth
11:31 < morpho> might take the card out. I have also heard OpenBSD does better with wireless drivers than FreeBSD
11:32 < sibiria> wireless for headphones and mouse is as wonderful as wireless is for network
11:32 < pardis> OpenBSD's wifi support is bad?
11:32 < pardis> news to me
11:32 < oldlaptop> I would say OpenBSD wifi is probably the best UX in free unixoids overall, if you're one of unix's friends. Unfortunately it doesn't have very comprehensive driver support behind that, although amusingly enough I still have (older intel) wireless hardware which works more reliably than under linux.
11:33 < sibiria> well, now you know
11:33 < pardis> yep, only been using it for 8 years without noticing
11:34 < pardis> sound is only really a problem if you either have driver issues (usually only with newer hardware, so not applicable to X270) or want to switch between multiple audio devices (not applicable if you just want to use the onboard audio)
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11:35 < oldlaptop> I get reasonable battery life on my thinkpads, though those are all at least ten years old. I'm sure linux is moderately better in that regard.
11:35 < pardis> video decoding acceleration can be a problem if you want to watch 4K movies, but the existing software decoding is good enough for 1080p on modern CPUs
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11:35 < pardis> power management does indeed leave something to be desired
11:35 < sibiria> all but one driver still stuck in 802.11g and 2.4 ghz. some drivers (athn being the biggest culprit) completely unreliable and support (barely) just a tiny selection of chipsets. most drivers abandoned and support only old 11b/g gen chipsets etc.
11:36 < sibiria> it's "great" if you run intel centrino era wifi. if not, it's crap.
11:36 < sibiria> hardly the definition of good wifi support
11:36 < pardis> there are at least three drivers that support 802.11n
11:36 < oldlaptop> Broadly speaking, intel iGPUs should be more or less trouble-free (assuming they're old enough to be supported - it doesn't take an absurd amount of time to trickle in, but it does take time). radeons should generally work, but you might have a bit more trouble. nvidia chips are paperweights
11:37 < pardis> and many use cases don't benefit from higher throughput than 802.11g anyway
11:37 < sibiria> athn has been touted to support 11n. it does not, because when switching to 11n AP it can't maintain connection for more than 2 seconds.
11:37 < sibiria> documentation and reality not in parity
11:37 < pardis> most of my OpenBSD wifi experience is with iwn, iwm and iwx, which all work great these days (I remember iwm had some teething problems way back)
11:37 < oldlaptop> (and laptops with "switchable graphics", at least involving nvidia chips, can be tricky. Sometimes the nvidia chip can be cut out of the loop entirely in firmware, but the consequences of doing that depend on the specific model - e.g. I have one that can't do external display output without the nvidia chip)
11:38 < pardis> iwn, iwm and iwx are also the drivers relevant to almost all ThinkPads
11:38 < oldlaptop> pardis: not a coincidence, I don't think :|
11:39 < pardis> anyway, I would be careful to distinguish general WiFi suckiness (which I don't think OpenBSD has) from specific driver suckiness (which I can believe is the case on much less-documented and/or less-tested hardware)
11:40 < sibiria> as said, it's ok if one has intel centrino (and successor) hardware, but that's where the good wifi experience ends
11:40 < sibiria> a narrow limelight
11:40 < oldlaptop> The wifi stack, generally, doesn't have much support for the newer high-data-rate standards (only a few 802.11n features and nothing for "ax" or whatever it is now).
11:40 < morpho> Part of what attracted me to the BSD's is learning more about OS development. I already run my own power management scripts on Linux, I would adore to explore this further on OpenBSD.
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11:41 < pardis> but the person asking the question told us their hardware has such Intel wifi hardware
11:41 < pardis> to get back to the original question, battery life is good enough in my experience, if not stellar
11:41 < pardis> it's certainly not *bad*, just middling
11:41 < oldlaptop> A lot of non-intel hardware seems to lack driver support, unfortunately.
11:42 < sibiria> pardis: does APST work on your setup? if you run an NVMe drive that is
11:42 < sibiria> i was surprised to see that - at least the way things look - APST working on my odroid h3
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11:42 < sibiria> nvme drive not showing any signs of running warm during idle
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11:43 < pardis> I do use NVMe drives (two of them, all glory be to Lenovo for providing a second slot) but I haven't really looked at APST at all
11:43 < sibiria> unfortunately it's a bit tricky to gauge APST in software, even on linux
11:43 < sibiria> the ol' finger seems to work best. how ironic
11:43 < pardis> but my T14 has been gradually failing anyway and will probably need replacing soon, and often runs warm as a result, so it might not be straightforward to find out
11:43 < oldlaptop> All the more unfortunate because management and configuration are miles better than linux in particular. (How many different hokey wifi-specific ifconfig-like tools are there on linux now? And those aren't enough, you need wpa_supplicant for pretty much anything. And then we can talk about network-manager...)
11:43 < pardis> I had to remove the internal speaker to avoid it constantly making a short burst of white noise once per second
11:44 < pardis> and the USB-C charge socket only works in one orientation
11:44 < pardis> something really funky is going on
11:44 < sibiria> that's... very strange
11:45 < oldlaptop> it's a *lot* nicer to have (a) one sensible, consistent userspace configuration tool and (b) the kernel capable of doing wpa-psk itself so there's no long-running userland process to fight with in the common case
11:45 < pardis> it's not an OpenBSD problem because the speaker thing starts before loading the OS, so I think I will just get a new laptop
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11:45 < pardis> it's still in warranty but I don't feel like dealing with Lenovo support while I'm without a daily driver for who knows how long
11:46 < oldlaptop> pardis: That's the thing about decade-old thinkpads: they're worth so little you can just have extra ones :P
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11:46 < pardis> I do actually have a couple of decade-old ThinkPads lying around, but I don't think I could go back to those displays
11:47 < pardis> or CPUs with the performance hit of meltdown
11:48 < morpho> my thinkpad x60 works
11:48 < morpho> has 4GB of RAM, works very well
11:48 < oldlaptop> I have the machine that can't do external display output without the nvidia GPU for those-ish reasons. :| (w520, which mostly have at least tolerable panels)
11:48 < oldlaptop> and a relatively beefy CPU
11:49 < oldlaptop> not all that easy to find a foo bridge thinkpad with a half-decent panel *and* no nvidia headaches, *way* too many of those shipped with 14" or even 15" 1366x768 panels :(
11:49 < pardis> oh yeah, and my (not cheap) 4 TB M.2 SSD would be useless with ThinkPads of a certain vintage
11:50 < oldlaptop> yeah, not much to be done about that
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16:07 < lavaball> how did this happen? May 24 15:34:41.541713 rule def/(short) pass in on re2: 46.247.194.65.41430 > 192.168.7.1.0: S 85374488:85375768(1280) win 0 (DF) i did pfctl -sr |grep log and all my log rules start with block. so how did this pass? and what is port 0?
16:07 < MonsoonSecrecy> why do I have such high interrupt load? CPU0 states: 0.0% user, 0.0% nice, 0.0% sys, 0.0% spin, 62.8% intr, 37.2% idle
16:08 < lts> Unfortunately magic orbs are out of order today
16:11 < sibiria> MonsoonSecrecy: does "vmstat -i" say some crazy high number in the several thousands?
16:12 < sibiria> in the "rate" column, that is
16:13 < uwharrie> Is it headless? There were several reports of interrupt storms on certain hardware when nothing was plugged in to the HDMI port
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16:14 < MonsoonSecrecy> @sibiria yes https://paste.systemli.org/?6d467131027c97d9#7UPXrQVjqFQEBQD97ckPkPb3VpaTsQKXvZ7ai5YyhXXC
16:14 < sibiria> that actually looks quite normal
16:14 < MonsoonSecrecy> @uwharrie yes it is headless indeed
16:15 < sibiria> what do you see up in the top with: top -S -s 1
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16:16 < oldlaptop> nota bene: 715 other IRC clients now have the key to your super secret paste
16:18 < oldlaptop> (preusmably it's not actually supposed to be secret, in which case there's really no point to using a special paste site intended to keep it secret)
16:18 < sibiria> interrupt rates have leaked. initiate evasive maneuver
16:18 < MonsoonSecrecy> I see sleep/0 and onproc/2 in tne top
16:19 < sibiria> the command (and its cpu%), not the state
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16:19 < pardis> oldlaptop: the main argument I've seen is that keeping it encrypted indemnifies the person hosting the paste site from the possibility of hosting illegal content
16:19 < sibiria> anything indicating that it's chewing at the cpu?
16:19 < pardis> since in principle an unencrypted paste site could be held liable for moderating submitted content
16:19 < oldlaptop> `top | curl -F 'clbin=<-' https://clbin.com` should actually do about the right thing (though I actually *would* think twice before piping top straight to the internet)
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16:19 < oldlaptop> pardis: doesn't seem to be stopping the numerous unencrypted ones, at the very least
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16:21 < MonsoonSecrecy> the commands in the top are idle0 and idle2
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16:22 < sibiria> ok so there's no syste process (or otherwise) indicating a huge cpu% usage (the column just left of command)
16:23 < MonsoonSecrecy> no everything below 0.05%
16:23 < sibiria> a bit complicated to find what's causing it when interrupt rates were low and normal. might be something that doesn't trigger a lot but somehow gets stuck there before signing off on the interrupt
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16:25 < MonsoonSecrecy> maybe what uwharrie said because it's headless
16:26 < iceman1> Yellow puffers
16:26 < sibiria> i *think* that would've shown in the interrupt rates
16:26 < iceman1> Bsdnow podcast stuff to share
16:26 < iceman1> https://www.bsdnow.tv/507
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16:27 < iceman1> Has Anyone read "OpenBSD Mastery: Filesystems (IT Mastery)" ?
16:28 < MonsoonSecrecy> thanks sibiria and uwharrie for your help
16:28 < sibiria> the issue uwharrie mentioned related to inteldrm i think
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18:17 < Tekk> Anyone running openbsd inside of a qemu+kvm managed by virt-manager have tips on getting usable resolutions? No matter what I try it maxes out at 1280x768
18:17 < Tekk> tried both spice and vnc displays as well as both qxl and virtio "graphics cards" on 7.3
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18:19 < pardis> calling 1280x768 "unusable" is a bit of a stretch
18:19 < pardis> if you need more pixels than that, X11 forwarding over ssh is probably going to be simpler to work with
18:19 < Tekk> It's for a weird setup :D
18:19 < Tekk> Plus it looks pretty small on the 2k monitor
18:20 < Tekk> Trying to set it up for a "fullscreen" capture on my Linux box so I can show it with obs
18:21 < pardis> maybe use X11 forwarding and run Xephyr?
18:21 < pardis> then you can make your "display" as big as you want
18:21 < Tekk> Oh, that'll do it. It's using vesa as its driver. I could've sworn openbsd had a virtio video driver
18:22 < Tekk> Xephyr's my fallback atm
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18:26 < Tekk> Oh, there we go.
18:26 < Tekk> video=vga gives me up to 1920x1200
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23:05 < Newbix> someone having a ledger key and manage it on openbsd?
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23:13 < gman999> what do you use to manage a ledger key?
23:14 < gman999> is it a piece of software Newbix?
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23:29 < Newbix> @gman999 yes using ledger live on Mac before and now I don't know if we need to use the latest repository
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23:30 < gman999> is there something in ports for it Newbix?
23:31 < Newbix> not found something related to the ledger live app
23:34 < Newbix> do you use a key like that to manage crypto ssh gpg?
23:34 < ArtGravity> No. It is a crypto wallet.
23:34 < ArtGravity> As in cryptocurrency.
23:34 < ArtGravity> It does not appear to have any support on any of the BSD platfroms.
23:35 < thrig> oh the humanity
23:35 < Newbix> I'm using it before to manage ssh and sign via gpg (a python fork from trezor)
23:35 < pardis> sounds like the simplest solution to that problem
23:36 < vortexx> ordered and received my APU6b, just installed 7.3 on it. Going to see if the SFP adapter I have works in it or not... got the silver case, looks good and it's great using microUSB instead of DB9 for the serial port
23:38 < Newbix> it's an electron app
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23:40 < gman999> javascript is the hammer that makes everything look like a nail...
23:41 < thrig> it used to be regular expressions back in the old day
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23:52 < Lucas6023> vortexx: nice! I had some issue with mine, seemingly related to ampere requirements of my config, so I'll be quite interested to know if you run into any problems
23:54 < Lucas6023> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugs&m=165887811200629&w=2 for context
23:58 < vortexx> Lucas6023: will let you know
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--- Log closed Thu May 25 00:00:50 2023