--- Log opened Mon May 29 00:00:56 2023
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00:04 < oldlaptop> is that how many kinds of people there are too?
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00:15 < thrig> corrputed dwarf expression, gee thanks backtrace
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02:55 < thrig> hmm okay well vi is (very rarely) trying to do a TAILQ_FIRST on a something that is actually a TAILQ_EMPTY thingy
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03:25 < Intrepid> Hi sibiria how goes it?
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03:28 < Intrepid> Hi all, I've successfully created an encrypted USB drive using the bioctl command. However when I try and detach it, I'm getting "can't locate sd1 device via /dev/bio"
03:29 < Intrepid> Useful context: Prior to all this I used bioctl -c -C -l /dev/sd0a softraid0 to create the encrypted volume whereupon I entered the passphrase, and then it reported "sd1 mounted" or similar msg
03:30 < Intrepid> I also then mkdir a new directory on /mnt/xxusb to which I copied all the files I wanted backed up...
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03:39 < Intrepid> It seem's from having now troubleshot this that I needed to unmount the encrypted USB drive before then entering the bioctl -d command (detaching it thereafter) .... However when I enter "umount /dev/sd1c /mnt/specifiedDir I get "input/output error" ?
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03:52 < rueda> umount /mnt (or whatever mount point you used)
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03:59 < Intrepid> I never mounted though. All I did was create the directory that was going to be used as the mount point at the next step, but I never got there...
04:00 < Intrepid> All my files for backup are now copied into that /mnt/specifiedDIR directory, but I'm unable to mount the USB to it
04:01 < pardis> I reiterate my suggestion of picking up a book on unix
04:01 < pardis> what are you hoping to achieve by copying files into a directory *before* mounting something there?
04:02 < pardis> what does 'bioctl softraid0' say? that should show you which softraid devices are attached, and hence which ones can be detached
04:03 < thrig> or why not use restic and have it encrypt the backups?
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04:05 < rueda> restic (or similar) would also do backup rather than just mirroring
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04:07 < rueda> book / manpage / faq seems like a good idea.
04:08 < pardis> the OpenBSD FAQ and man pages aren't really there to teach unix fundamentals
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04:08 < pardis> a book on unix (not necessarily specific to OpenBSD) would go a long way with this level of knowledge
04:09 * thrig goes back to flailing at orbital math without having wasted time on a proper calculus course
04:10 < rueda> sure, but even reading umount(2) would give "umount - unmount file systems" (which seems like a good hint)
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04:15 < oldlaptop> if it's any easier to find, a book on "linux" may (depending on the book, naturally) count as a book on "unix" for this purpose
04:16 < oldlaptop> (linux being "unix" in the loosest and arguably truest sense)
04:20 < thrig> it's what passes for unix these days?
04:21 < pardis> caution is advisable because Linux's popularity causes it to suffer from an abundance of sources that claim to understand it but don't
04:21 < pardis> as opposed to the relatively small number of sources that claim to understand OpenBSD but don't
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04:24 < oldlaptop> unfortunately this does not seem to stop unsuspecting google-searchers from hitting the ones with bad information on openbsd (though I guess your odds are a lot better in actual print)
04:25 < thrig> print is slightly more filtered than any old thing on the 'net
04:25 < oldlaptop> on the plus side I can't remember the last time I saw someone link to a certain such site named after a certain mercury compound
04:30 < thrig> Chinese emperors used to take cinnabar as a longevity tonic
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05:08 < Intrepid> You seem to have a good grasp of my situation pardis . So given that I failed to mount before copying the files to be backed up over to the intended directory, is there any way I can get those files successfully on there? Or alternatively, at least be able to detach the USB encrypted volume?
05:09 < Intrepid> Is bioctl -d /dev/sd1 not working because I unplugged the USB stick at one point or another between reattempts of this command?
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13:19 < Posterdati> hi
13:19 < thrig> lo
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13:25 < Zyxer> Ok So the issue I had a few days ago seems to have been QT-issues. Nopt sure if it is issue with OpenBSD <-> QT or specifically transmission QT but I haven't had that issue on any other distro and always used QT. Now I tried transmission-gtk and no issues. I personally don't care if I have GTK or QT but I thought to share the issue I had incase someone in the future stumbles upon it
13:26 < Zyxer> I have the workaround not fix.
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13:28 < sibiria> the web-based transmission daemon is great
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13:29 < sibiria> the remote-cli as well
13:30 < sibiria> stig, or whatever it's called
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13:45 < Posterdati> hi
13:46 < Posterdati> please help, I have a problem with an mga g200e pilot: https://paste.nastycode.com/wp67kpibcpejol6vkp2n https://paste.nastycode.com/kxufkdazsxyvspu7416r
13:47 < Posterdati> thanks!
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13:49 < sibiria> wow, holy 1990s graphics cards, Posterdatiman
13:49 < Tekk> ......mga? As in *m*ga?
13:49 < sibiria> matrox 1990s stuff
13:49 < Tekk> Ahhhh
13:50 < Tekk> My mind went to the original monochrome graphics standard for PCs
13:50 < sibiria> Posterdati: i'd sell it on ebay to some "retro" collector and buy a usable card instead
13:51 < Posterdati> it is integrated
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13:55 < sibiria> you should elaborate on what the problem actually is, so people who use X regularly might be able to help
13:56 < Posterdati> sibiria, black screen :) no xenodm greeter
13:56 < Posterdati> xenodm seems to start and stop correctly
13:57 < sibiria> if you get video output during kernel init it might be as simple as modesetting mistake
13:57 < Tekk> I mean looking at that xorg.log it just seems like there's nothing your monitor and graphics card can agree on
13:58 < Tekk> Everything is too big for the monitor, doesn't work with the monitor's refresh rates, or requires more memory for the framebuffer than the box has
13:58 < sibiria> you may need to enforce a specific (lower) resolution and refresh rate for it to play ball
13:59 < Posterdati> already done, not working
13:59 < sibiria> do you get video output during init when the kernel is starting up?
13:59 < sibiria> before xenodm
14:00 < Posterdati> yes
14:00 < Posterdati> the normal pc post
14:00 < Posterdati> then the boot
14:00 < Posterdati> until the login
14:01 < Posterdati> I can reach the console with CTRL + F1
14:01 < sibiria> then it really does sound like you need to figure out a compatible mode and color depth
14:01 < Posterdati> CTRL + ALT + F1
14:02 < Posterdati> sibiria: on 7.2 I set machdep.allowaperture=2
14:02 < Posterdati> and it worked
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14:39 < Posterdati> :(
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14:40 < sibiria> maybe better chance to find someone knowledgeable on the mailing lists
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14:45 < Newbix> (hello, my nickname was used, I'm sorry about words used by someone as me)
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14:50 < thrig> some idiot was using your name to say stupid things?
14:51 < Newbix> idk maybe in case I prefer to apologize for that
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14:54 < thrig> https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/very-truly-yours
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16:53 < thrig> a patch for squiggle heuristics? now I've seen it all
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19:06 < Posterdati> sibiria: this is strange, now I have the xenodm greeter screen, after it stayed 2 hours black! Very strange!
19:06 < Posterdati> sibiria: and funny
19:08 < riceandbeans> Random question, why does starttls exist?
19:08 < riceandbeans> Ie, with ssl/tls being commonplace at this point, why does starttls exist?
19:08 < Posterdati> why not?
19:08 < riceandbeans> I assume it was initially intended as a means to not cause outages during transitions from everything being open to using encryption when supported
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19:09 < quinq> That's for not breaking the existing, while allowing to upgrade to TLS
19:09 < riceandbeans> But, what is the benefit or purpose for it existing right now?
19:09 < riceandbeans> I mean, I understand that justification, 30 years ago.
19:09 < riceandbeans> I'm just more curious why it exists in 2023
19:09 < quinq> 30 years ago only?
19:09 < pardis> how do you propose it stop existing?
19:10 < riceandbeans> What would preclude people from just using tls today?
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19:10 < srfsh> same could be said for ipv4, i'd say.
19:10 < riceandbeans> If you can starttls, you can tls, so starttls needing to exist would imply some people simply cannot tls today
19:10 < quinq> Existing implementations, choices
19:10 < pardis> or that there are more important things to spend time on than updating existing libraries
19:11 < quinq> riceandbeans, it's about not doing tls
19:11 < quinq> Of course if you can starttls you can tls
19:11 < quinq> That's why starttls exists
19:11 < quinq> So you can both
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19:12 < riceandbeans> ipv4 is a different argument...it exists, imo, because it's orders of magnitude easier for humans than ipv6
19:12 < riceandbeans> Between understanding of cidr and netmasks to memorization of actual addresses
19:12 < quinq> Not really
19:12 < xtile> Or more like because ISPs are lazy. :B IPv6 makes it way easier to run servers, as you no longer have to NAT or port forward. (But I should head to sleep)
19:13 < quinq> It exists because most of the hardware would have to be upgraded
19:13 < riceandbeans> I can name 4 different name servers off the top of my head in ipv4, I can't tell you localhost in ipv6 withouth looking it up
19:13 < quinq> But business is lazy and do not like to spend money on something that works
19:13 < riceandbeans> I'm not saying the tech isn't better
19:13 < riceandbeans> I'm saying it's less human parseable and memorizable
19:13 < quinq> Yeah, you're just saying you don't know ipv6
19:13 < pardis> localhost in IPv6 is shorter than in IPv4, so that sounds like a you problem
19:13 < quinq> Which is fine, like ipv4, you have to learn how it works
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19:14 < riceandbeans> pardis: Well, OpenBSD doesn't support it out of the box either :P
19:15 < pardis> wait, what?
19:15 < quinq> Of course it does
19:15 < riceandbeans> Really, since when?
19:15 < pardis> 1998, iirc
19:15 < quinq> Many years ago
19:15 < riceandbeans> I can't give it an ipv6 to talk to my modem, and even if it did, it doesn't have a dhcp server that supports ipv6 for the internal network
19:16 < sibiria> Posterdati: that is indeed strange. and not entirely useful i suppose. extreme boot-to-desktop time
19:16 < pardis> DHCPv6 is not required to support IPv6
19:17 < pardis> apparently I was wrong, IPv6 support was only added in 1999
19:19 < sibiria> the problem with STARTTLS is not just the security concerns, but that more than a small number of applications don't do implicit TLS
19:19 < sibiria> imo no better way to solve it than finally sunsetting STARTTLS and forcing straggling software to catch up...20 years too late
19:19 < Posterdati> sibiria: no, the login is very fast, the screen goes dark during xenodm loading, but is is black, now I had messagebus but not dbus loaded at startup
19:19 < quinq> DHCPv6, who's the bright one that invented that? -_-
19:19 < thrig> or have broken SSL, or
19:20 < Posterdati> sibiria: I enabled dbus, and this happened :)
19:21 < sibiria> STARTTLS being around for so long has been counter-productive
19:22 < sibiria> some steps forward, some steps back. starttls is common -> let's support just starttls because it's good enough
19:23 < riceandbeans> quinq: why is dhcpv6 bad?
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19:24 < quinq> Because there's SLAAC
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19:26 < riceandbeans> Yeah SLAAC is terrible
19:26 < riceandbeans> I don't want random shit on my network making up their own addresses to bypass my filtration rules
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19:27 < riceandbeans> I want a central point knowing and issuing IPs
19:27 < sibiria> dhcpv6 is nice in how it's regular udp traffic you can wrangle
19:27 < IcePic> riceandbeans: you know that on a dhcp network, device can listen for 0.023s and then make up a working ip address, right?
19:28 < IcePic> you running or not running a dhcpd with lots of conf is not the protection against that
19:28 < pardis> if you really do want DHCPv6 for some reason, there's nothing stopping you installing a DHCPv6 server from packages
19:28 < quinq> riceandbeans, it's not random sh*t, it's predetermined format
19:28 < pardis> but it's a bit much to say that means OpenBSD doesn't support IPv6
19:28 < riceandbeans> Out of the box.
19:29 < riceandbeans> You can bolt on something afterwards
19:29 < quinq> You decide what you give to your network
19:29 < pardis> no, it supports it out of the box
19:29 < pardis> you want to use a specific protocol on top of IPv6
19:29 < quinq> And as IcePic pointed out, that
19:29 < pardis> this is a bit like saying IPv4 isn't supported because there is no XMPP server in base
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19:30 < sibiria> though dhcp really lies closer to home in terms of networking fundamentals than chitter-chatter over xmpp
19:30 < quinq> yeah :)
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19:32 < pardis> nevertheless, you can run a fully functional IPv6 router with only base
19:32 < pardis> if you choose to want DHCPv6, that doesn't invalidate that fact
19:33 < quinq> My ISP only have IPv6 from DHCPv6…
19:33 < quinq> I curse them
19:33 < riceandbeans> Same
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20:39 < opv> am i correct in the assumption that busybox's ash is more minimal than openbsd's ksh? iE scripts that run here will run there? thank you
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20:41 < Lucas6023> not necessarily. If you stick to POSIX sh syntax and constructions, it'll most likely behave the same in both shells.
20:41 < Lucas6023> deviate from there, and there will be dragons
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20:44 < thrig> don't deviate from there, and there will be dragons
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20:47 < pardis> if you want to be sure a script works on multiple shells, test on all of them
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20:51 < opv> that's what i feared
20:51 < opv> thank you
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21:38 < phy1729> opv: if you have a /bin/sh shebang, shellcheck will warn on non-POSIXisms (not a guarentee it will run everywhere, but will point out common issues)
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22:09 < opv> thank you
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--- Log closed Tue May 30 00:00:57 2023