--- Log opened Tue May 30 00:00:57 2023
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02:19 < Intrepid> Hi All, I've used bioctl to create an encrypted USB drive successfully now, but can't see how to mount it for when I might need to use it for restoration purposes in future... Anyone know the command?
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02:38 < Intrepid> With the man pages of bioctl not shedding any light on how to access this encrypted USB volume I've turned to this: https://www.openbsdhandbook.com/disk_operations/encryption/#encrypting-external-disks . Is it the case that the last line "The same bioctl(8) command can be used to attach the drive later on." is referring to the 'bioctl -c -C -l
02:38 < Intrepid> /dev/sd0 softraid0' command as a means to reattach the volume?
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03:14 < namtsui> Intrepid https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#softraidCrypto
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03:16 < namtsui> Intrepid https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#softraidCrypto
03:18 < Intrepid> namtsui thanks - I've been using that to create the encrypted USB disk in the first place. Now I need to access it which I'm still unable to do.
03:18 < Intrepid> I've just tried using mount /dev/sd0i /mnt/usb but it says "Device not configured"
03:19 < Intrepid> I've also tried a similar command but using the -t option and specifying RAID as the fstype but I also get an error
03:19 < namtsui> it says to reuse the bioctl command
03:20 < namtsui> # bioctl -c C -l sd3a softraid0
03:20 < namtsui> in the example
03:20 < Intrepid> yeh, and that's what I was seeking clarification on earlier...   Ok, so its like I thought: re-enter that command that is indicated earlier for creating the encrypted volume in the first place. Won't it ask for a new encryption passphrase when I do this (as if it was creating a new encrypted volume from fresh) ?
03:21 < namtsui> it prompts Passphrase:
03:21 < Intrepid> ah great... I'll give it a try now
03:21 < Tekk> It should pick up that it was already made and prompt you for the passphrase
03:21 < namtsui> rather than New passphrase: when you created it
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03:34 < Intrepid> ok thanks namtsui and Tekk - I was able to access the encrypted USB using the original bioctl -c ..... command...
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03:34 < Intrepid> Now, however, when I try to unmount using "umount /mnt/usb" I get "Device busy" error msg
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03:36 < byteskeptical> Intrepid: your probably still in the directory somewhere
03:39 < Intrepid> thanks byteskeptical that was it
03:40 < Intrepid> always pays to be skeptical 0_o
03:42 < Intrepid> phew, glad to have that encrypted USB issue sorted. Now I can get on with the task of making a bootable USB installer to move up to 7.3 ... On that point, I see that one of the new features for 7.3 is a guided Full Disk Encryption as part of the installer. Having done this manually for the USB stick recently and finding that the first step of
03:42 < Intrepid> creating the random entropy was way too long unless I stipulated a bs=16mb or similar, how slow (or fast) has anyone found the process?
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03:51 < Tekk> I did my fde the old fashioned way (and my openbsd partition is only like 200GB anyway)
03:54 < Intrepid> I'm on a 10 year old laptop with what I'm guessing is a 500Gb HDD. How long (roughly) should I expect the full disk encryption process to take do you think? Did you specify a bigger bs=x mb size than the usual bs=1m ? using bs=16m sped my entropy creating stage of urandom up massively
03:56 < Tekk> I know that on linux for the max speed you actually want your bs to = page size. As far as I know you should be safe skipping the dd if you're that worried about it?
03:56 < Tekk> You overwrite the whole disk with random data in that step right?
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03:56 < Intrepid> yeh thats the step
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03:57 < Tekk> Yeah, that step strikes me as one of those "If you need this step you're already screwed" things :)
03:57 < Intrepid> Given how slow it was doing a little 32gb usb stick with the default bs=1m I'm wondering why they don't stipulate a higher bs= number... It's just specifying how big a write size you want it to do at each step right?
03:58 < Tekk> So I know on linux the ideal bs= is actually the page size.
03:58 < Tekk> Which is theoretically what gnu dd checks for and uses
03:58 < Tekk> I'm not sure if the bottleneck is elsewhere on openbsd though
03:59 < Intrepid> I suspect the entropy creation step is actually quite important as part of the broader encryption process...
03:59 < Tekk> Dumping a bunch of randomness into sd0 would deplete the entropy pool if anything, right?
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04:03 < Intrepid> Not sure TBH. If so why would they have it as step 1?
04:04 < Tekk> To clear any data previously on the disk
04:04 < Intrepid> and I can't help but remember this in the context of my OSx experience of filevault where they specifically talk about the benefit of using the OS for a while before doing the encryption as it will improve entropy
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04:04 < Tekk> Generally your entropy gathering is from stuff like keyboard/mouse input, network device timings, etc.
04:05 < Tekk> In the old days things like disk seek times fed into it, not sure how common that is now that SSDs are ubiquitous
04:05 < Intrepid> ok, but if it was to clear data on the disk, why wouldn't they just suggest writing a bunch of zero's across the disk given how much quicker this is
04:05 < Tekk> My guess: foiling recovery
04:06 < Tekk> If I'm trying to recover off of your platters, and I know that you put /dev/zero on there
04:06 < Intrepid> and by recovery you mean the ability to retrieve the password that might decrypt the disk?
04:06 < Tekk> if I see a 0.0 I know it was a 0 before. If I see like a 0.1 I know that before it was probably a 1
04:06 < Tekk> for example
04:06 < Tekk> Assuming the threshold for the had drive reading a 1 was like 0.7
04:07 < Tekk> Overwiting bits in magnetic media (any media really) is analog.
04:07 < Tekk> and based on thresholds
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04:08 < Tekk> You could just as well use /dev/zero if your threat model doesn't include people forensically disassemling your hard drive your previous contents, but there's nothing but wasted time in choosing the safest default
04:08 < Tekk> drive for your previous contents*
04:10 < Tekk> If your threat model is "I don't care about foiling any recovery efforts of previous data" then you can just skip the step entirely I think
04:11 < Tekk> (And I suspect the step is entirely wasted on SSDs since it's impossible to force an overwrite of data there, but an actual dev can chime in there)
04:11 < Tekk> You'd probably be safe if you overwrote the entire drive 2 or 3 times, but then you're severely hurting the life of the drive
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04:25 < Intrepid>  ah ok your 2nd last comment clarifies your point. ... Pending anyone elses experiences of the new guided FDE process I'm tempted to give it a go assuming they would'nt have implemented it if it required anything longer than a couple hours to fully encrypt...
04:25 < Intrepid> oh Tekk were you saying you did a manual FDE on 7.2?
04:25 < Tekk> I think I might've installed this as 7.1, ut yeah
04:26 < Tekk> I don't know what the new automated fde does
04:26 < Tekk> I'd just try it
04:28 < Intrepid> Yeh but I'm also wondering where I'll be if upon trying it as part of the OpenBSD 7.3 installation process, and it taking a ridiculous amount of time (e.g. 10 hours +) I abort the installation.... Where will that leave my system?
04:29 < Tekk> In a state where you can run the install again
04:29 < Intrepid> you mean it will undo whatever installing it's done up to the abort stage, and I'm good to go aagain with the bootable USB installer img?
04:30 < Tekk> If you go into the installer and start to dd garbage onto your hard drive sd0
04:30 < Tekk> and you decide it takes too long
04:30 < Tekk> You should just be able to start the install again
04:30 < Intrepid> hmmm I wonder if its just a matter of CTRL-Z or CTRL-C to abort mid process..
04:30 < Tekk> All it was doing was writing bytes to the hard drive, after all
04:31 < dennis> ctrl-c aborts, ctrl-z puts process in the background
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04:33 < jrmu> can anyone confirm if the CP2102 USB TTL RS232 works with openbsd? I have a few rpi clones I want to put openbsd on. The other one I am considering getting is the PL2303 TA USB TTL RS232 cable
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04:47 < Intrepid> BBL - thanks again for the help folks
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07:16 < Posterdati> sibiria: I understand what's happening! The graphic console is not selected running xenodm, I can switch to it with [CTRL]+[ALT]+[F4}
07:16 < Posterdati> sibiria: strange!
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10:55 < sibiria> Posterdati: ah that's strange, it should be defaulted to when xenodm starts
10:55 < sibiria> glad you found out what's happening
10:57 < sibiria> jrmu: it should, it's one of the most common USB UARTS and there's a driver for it. if you'd like to i can dig my CP2102 out from hiding and test for you
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11:00 < IcePic> jrmu: I agree with sibiria, it should work. I have used a lot of the cheapish usb2serial chips and rather surprisingly most of them work fine on obsd, more-so than other BSDs, at least when I checked.
11:01 < sibiria> all three usual suspects - ft232, ch34x, cp210x - have driver support in openbsd
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11:01 < IcePic> pl2303 is uplcom(4)
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12:35 < brock> Anyone from openbsd.amsterdam here?
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12:47 < byteskeptical> brock: i don't know if there are on at the moment but if you reach out directly through email they usually respond unreasonably quick
12:50 < brock> put another way, does someone on IRC have a referral code?
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12:55 < pardis> you can use mine if you want: OBSD-3238-VLGG
12:56 < pardis> I have no idea if it's still valid or not, that's from 5 years ago
12:56 < brock> I get infrequent but extremely valuable assistance on IRC, so I thought it relevant that this is reflected when I sign up
12:56 < pardis> I forgot about it until you mentioned it now
12:57 < brock> Thanks, pardis
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14:03 < Tekk> Has anyone seen something like "AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri/radeon_dri.so failed (File not found)" before?
14:03 < Tekk> I've confirmed that the file exists and it *is* world-readable
14:03 < Tekk> Full dmesg and xorg log in a sec, getting it off an old laptop
14:04 < byteskeptical> Tekk: check the permissions of /dev/dri/card0
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14:05 < Tekk> https://dpaste.com/5RGKEJ65M dmesg
14:05 < pardis> are you sure that file exists? it isn't in any sets on either of my 7.3 or 7.2 systems (don't have -current handy)
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14:05 < Tekk> byteskeptical: card0 is owned by me as 600
14:06 < Tekk> pardis: ...
14:06 < Tekk> you're right
14:06 < Tekk> the file is radeonsi_dri.so
14:06 < Tekk> One sec
14:08 < Tekk> Yeah, I think the card's just too old to be supported by the amd drivers in openbsd
14:08 < Tekk> It's not a typo somewhere, symlinking the files means it just fails to open some symbols
14:09 < Bradipo> Where did the name radeonsi_dri.so come from?  That's not the quoted error above.
14:10 < Tekk> radeonsi is the file which *does* exist
14:10 < sibiria> old decomissioned driver from mesa maybe?
14:10 < Tekk> I'm guessing that's the moden driver
14:10 < sibiria> decommissioned*
14:10 < Tekk> Yeah, that's what I think it is
14:10 < Tekk> I think radeon_dri.so is a dead driver
14:10 < Tekk> radeonsi is the modern one
14:10 < sibiria> i bet you will find it in older mesa versions
14:10 < Bradipo> In my /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri directory I have radeon_dri.so and radeonsi_dri.so
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14:11 < Tekk> Huh
14:11 < Tekk> On 7.3?
14:11 < Bradipo> 7.2
14:11 < Bradipo> Sorry, 7.1
14:11 < Bradipo> I guess it's time to upgrade. :-)
14:11 < sibiria> fresh 7.1, or upgraded from earlier?
14:11 < Tekk> c:
14:11 < byteskeptical> Tekk: and you have ran fw_update
14:11 < Tekk> I have
14:11 < Bradipo> Whether or not it was upgraded from earlier, all files in /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/dri have the exact same timestamps.
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14:13 < pardis> indeed: https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/xenocara/distrib/sets/lists/xserv/md.amd64.diff?r1=1.82&r2=1.83&f=h
14:13 < pardis> this diff is between 7.1 and 7.2
14:13 < sibiria> i965 was the one someone else was complaining about missing just a few days ago
14:16 < Bradipo> I guess I better check my systems before upgrading to make sure they don't rely on radeon_dri.so?
14:16 < pardis> looks like this was a result of updating mesa to 22.1.7
14:17 < pardis> from 21.3.8, so that makes sense, it's a major bump
14:18 < Tekk> Wouldn't bother me much, but it seems like for some reason swrast doesn't support GLESv2
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14:18 < pardis> https://docs.mesa3d.org/relnotes/22.0.0.html has several "delete driver" and "remove driver" commits
14:19 < pardis> including i965
14:19 < Tekk> Ah wait, different issue there
14:19 < Tekk> Just needed a compat symlink
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14:21 < morpho> widevine is not suported on BSD's. is there a way to download the files from services i pay for so i can watch them outside a web browser?
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14:22 < morpho> has anybody had recent successes with that
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14:22 < pardis> that probably depends on which services you're paying for
14:22 < morpho> bfiplayer specifically
14:22 < pardis> but if they are using widevine, I strongly suspect the answer is no
14:23 < thrig> proprietary DRM, sounds like you're renting those bytes
14:23 < pardis> what is the point of using DRM if they provide a DRM-free download?
14:23 < morpho> they don't for rented/subscription videos
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14:24 < Zyxer> I don't think those services allow proper downloads. Even the ones that allow you to download usually require their own video player.
14:24 < sibiria> you're paying. you're morally entitled to set sail for the pirate bay and friends
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14:24 < sibiria> if they can't fix it for you, you fix it yourself
14:25 < morpho> pretty much my thinking
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14:26 < morpho> i can't find a lot of these movies on piratebays
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14:27 < sibiria> widevine is a shit product. took forever before an x86/linux version showed up. took two forevers before an arm/linux version showed up
14:27 < morpho> you could say its a feature, not supporting these things ;)
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14:29 < morpho> i've been out of the loop for too long. It used to be easy to pirate films, so many ISPs make it too difficult to be practical.
14:29 < sibiria> use a neutral DNS instead of your ISP's
14:30 < sibiria> very few of them actually employ network blocks for this
14:31 < tercaL> https://1.1.1.1 might help?
14:31 < tercaL> Fast and stable, been using it since ages.
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14:33 < sibiria> cloudflare = evil actor
14:34 < tercaL> Oh, why?
14:34 < sibiria> MITM data slurping is their whole business
14:34 < sibiria> they don't do it out of the good of their hearts
14:35 < sibiria> but, sure, they tecnically have good products
14:35 < thrig> cloudflare wanted to run javascript to "check the security" of the SSL connection. broken shit be broken
14:35 < tercaL> Hmmm. Interesting. Man in the Middle? Any sample facts, articles please?
14:35 < sibiria> tercaL: WARP collects data. their free DNS collects data. their cloudflare DoS protection collects data. it's all outlined in their privacy documents
14:36 < sibiria> if you use their registrar they collect data etc. etc.
14:36 < Tekk> tercaL: MitM is literally Cloudflare's entire reason for existence
14:36 < tercaL> I see.. 
14:36 < Tekk> That's what you pay them for
14:37 < Tekk> instead of traffic going from users to you, the traffic goes from users to cloudflare, then cloudflare sends it to you
14:37 < tercaL> Have few domains hosted by their dns (free DNS service + free DDoS protection through their proxies)
14:37 < tercaL> Have no idea how and what would they collect from me..
14:37 < tercaL> But good points.
14:37 < thrig> as much data as they can?
14:37 < Tekk> ^ The point isn't quality of data, it's quantity
14:37 < sibiria> activity on who uses your services under those domains
14:38 < tercaL> Well, they're few newspaper blogs (but very busy), no critical info throught http forms or whatsoever..
14:38 < tercaL> "The point isn't quality of data, it's quantity" <- now, that's a completely different matter.
14:38 < tercaL> I see.
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14:42 < sibiria> offering great services for low (or no) cost is a great strategy
14:42 < sibiria> their registrar is very affordable
14:42 < sibiria> zero markup
14:43 < sibiria> only the nominal icann fee
14:44 < thrig> a govenment in theory can't spy on the citizens, but hey if there's a data package someone happens to be selling
14:44 < sibiria> i moved two .net domains there some time ago to save costs for a family member with low income. ran into some very weird technical mishaps which they blamed on the origin registrar, but other than that it's been working well
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14:54 < morpho> sibiria tercaL, thankyou for that tip
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14:57 < Zyxer> I just setup i2p on my server and use that. Built in DDoS imunity
14:58 < Zyxer> OpenBSD forced me to use good tools, but also very motivating to refuse tracking software and software with backdoors. DRM doesn't work on OpenBSD so while I'm at it why not go full tinfoil and not only find alternatives to DRM but also to youtube, javascript and all that? 
14:59 -!- byteskeptical [~amnesia@user/byteskeptical] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
14:59 < Zyxer> OpenBSD is great as an OS and has also been very motivational for me 8D 
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14:59 < Tekk> Zyxer: you mean mpv and/or invidious?
14:59 < Tekk> :p
15:00 < Zyxer> Not heard of invidious and mpv no work on all services I use. But MPV is good yea
15:00 < jrmu> ok thank you sibiria , IcePic 
15:01 < Zyxer> Like, I refuse javascript so I use dillo (trying but failed to compile dillo-plus but oh well, if I don't learn C and OpenBSD properly I can't really blame it on anything but me)
15:01 < Zyxer> And that means thepiratebay refuses to work, so python script to search pirate
15:01 < Zyxer> Also getting into RSS feeds, 
15:01 < Tekk> RSS is nice
15:02 < Tekk> I've been in kind of a similar boat. OpenBSD makes for a nice low-distraction environment
15:02 < thrig> hi! it looks like you are trying to modify your xterm settings. would you like some help?
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15:02 < eea> agree that using openbsd creates motivation to do IT better
15:03 < Zyxer> Yea, just a bit of hassle to set up the links due to many services, such as youtube, try to prevent people from finding RSS feed link 
15:03 < eea> and every new openbsd thing i learn, grows my loathing of linuxisms
15:04 < Tekk> I mean, I'm on it in the first place because I'm teaching my roommate some BCH stuff
15:04 < Tekk> No S, we're trying lmdb to start with.
15:04 < xtile> Learning C is definitely useful, Zyxer, I fully recommend it.
15:04 < xtile> A lot of Unix documentation references C behavior, so if you know C you'll better understand Unix.
15:05 < thrig> oh that's how easy it is to segfault
15:05 < eea> i know enough C to find rhe bathroom or order a meal
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15:05  * xtile grins.
15:05 < Zyxer> Yea, I have done some small scripting in C and tried to learn, but much distractions and not much motivation due to "What should I do with C?". But now motivated to make ports and fix makefiles 
15:05  * xtile nods.
15:05 < Tekk> Linuxisms are annoying. At least when OpenBSD is annoying there are reasons that make sense.
15:06 < Tekk> Most recent one I saw was a zig bug complaining about how OBSD doesn't have an equivalent to /proc/self/exe
15:07 < Tekk> The wontfix answer pointed out that it's impossible to do it in a reliable way, which was like fair enough. What if the file's not readable by the current user, etc.
15:07 < eea> i love pointing out how much openbsd stuff is intrinsic to linux
15:07 < Tekk> Oh, there was one thing I missed though. afaik openbsd doesn't have anything like gpm
15:07 < eea> a la opensshd etc
15:08 < Tekk> Considering how even 30 year old boxes can run X at this point it's not a huge deal, but it was interesting.
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15:09 < Zyxer> Yea I installed OBSD on old old powerPC, but it is closer to 25 not 30. But almost no other OS, not even linux, support that unless you want to change distro. 
15:09 < Zyxer> Due to added Rust dependency many linux distros that used to support PowerPC stopped due to hassle to make rust run on them  
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15:10 < eea> i want openbsd to run my truck ecu
15:11 < Zyxer> And like, it is a bit anoying to need to kinda learn one different distro for each use case. I heard OpenBSD is being ported to PinePhonePro, so soon my router, server, 25 year old PPC, and all will run the same distro and OS. 
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15:38 < morpho> i have been spoilt with Wayland though
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15:41 < Tekk> I've never really noticed a difference aside from more bugs, personaly.
15:41 < Tekk> Which I guess is sort of the point. The whole sales pitch wayland is "We just removed all the bits of X that aren't used anymore"
15:42 < thrig> besides the portability
15:42 < morpho> iv not had any noticeble bugs on FreeBSD
15:43 < Tekk> Mostly just bugs in newer compositors
15:43 < morpho> it cleans up a lot of visual bugs however, which is hard to go back to on Xorg
15:44 < morpho> I don't know how wayland fits in with UNIX, if its more unix like or whatever
15:44 < sibiria> it's nice that wayland is MIT-licensed. shame on the linuxisms in it that have complicated porting
15:45 < Tekk> aesthetically wayland is definitely unixier
15:45 < Tekk> It breaks a lot of things the X server does into other programs
15:46 < pardis> unix stopped being unix-like 40 years ago
15:46 < pardis> it's a meaningless phrase to throw around now
15:46 < morpho> what are the linuxisms? currently the only gui toolkits that work on it are qt and gtk. They both require dbus and polkit to work I think...
15:46 < morpho> thought those are just the gui toolkits, plenty of wayland native programs dont need that shit
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15:47 < thrig> https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/wayland_on_netbsd_trials_and
15:48 < sibiria> morpho: portions of the sources have been very linux-centric
15:48 < sibiria> it really was built for linux
15:48 < sibiria> a lot of that is being tilled now
15:49 < sibiria> or rather, people are trying to. patches aren't being accepted
15:49 < Tekk> I wouldn't mind it if they accepted patches. Refusing to do that is fucked
15:49 < Tekk> Especially when it's meant to be the "reference implementation"
15:49 < morpho> thats rubbish
15:49 < thrig> Chromium also has like a lot of patches
15:49 < morpho> ^
15:50 < morpho> what just about to say
15:50 < morpho> chromium started to refuse BSD patches
15:50 < sibiria> freebsd devs have outstanding patches since like a year or more now (unless something recently happened)
15:50 < sibiria> same with netbsd
15:51 < morpho> hrmm
15:53 < morpho> if the compositor is ported, does that abstract away OS specific things away from application developers?
15:54 < Tekk> Yes and no
15:54 < morpho> or will porting programs from wayland to Xorg become a thing for BSD
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15:54 < Tekk> Wayland is *literally* just "put these pixels on the screen" basically
15:54 < Tekk> Programs are supposed to rely on toolkits for everything
15:54 < Tekk> Which paper over which wayland extensions are needed for what, which are different for every compositor
15:55 < Tekk> (ish. A lot of Qtish compositors will implement KDE's extensions, a lot of GTKish ones will implement gnome's extensions, a lot of independent ones use wlroots which has its own)
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15:58 < morpho> i have wanted to write applications for wayland but its a bit of a mystery
15:58 < morpho> there are far more toolkits on Xorg for now
15:58 < Tekk> yeah. The official answer from the wayland devs is "Write against gtk, qt, or efl and pretend Wayland doesn't exist, it's not for you to worry about"
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15:58 < sibiria> which is the right approach
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15:59 < Tekk> It'd probably be fun to try and write a toolkit for wayland, though with it not supporting openbsd I don't imagine it happening any time soon
15:59 < Tekk> I like writing against xlib enough. Might rewrite my WM to target xcb next.
15:59 < Tekk> Then eventually wayland support when obsd has it
16:00 < morpho> it would be nice if BSD had their own toolkit
16:01 < morpho> ncurses is great :)
16:05 < morpho> I dont know enough on the subject. But I hate having to deal with dbus, consolekit, pulse audio, common OSS gui shit
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16:06 < thrig> I may have accidentally done a chmod -x dbus*
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16:09 < morpho> thrig: what are the side effects of that?
16:10 < thrig> things that assume dbus might randomly break
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16:10 < morpho> i heard some people get performance increases without dbus running? what things break?
16:11 < thrig> I have no idea. I don't use desktop stuff, and don't mind if firefox dies horribly on the rare occasion I have to start it
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16:21 < sibiria> stuff that demands things like avahi and d-bus belong in pet peeve pile
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18:29 < CheemsBread> is open BSD a good OS for a git server?
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18:29 < IcePic> CheemsBread: yes, I'd say so.
18:29 < CheemsBread> IcePic: ok :)
18:30 < CheemsBread> thanks 
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18:31 < quinq> I'd say pretty much any OS where it runs, though
18:31 < thrig> might want to define 'git server'... a directory you push repos do? or actually some heavyweight web thing?
18:32 < IcePic> quinq: sure, but if you install it as a dedicated git server it doesn't pull in tons of other random crap running, so that is a plus for lean BSD Oses
18:33 < quinq> thrig, that was about git though, not web things
18:33 < quinq> IcePic, agreed :)
18:34 < uwharrie> there are plenty of people that are unaware you can host git repos without a web server, so it's a relevant statement
18:34 < thrig> (because everytime someone wanted a "git server" they actually wanted gitlab or something, which was a non-starter for the amount of work and maintaining and CVEs and...)
18:35 < Bradipo> There are plenty of people that don't understand that Git != GitHub.
18:35 < quinq> You can also distribute git over http2, uwharrie that's still not a heavywheight web thing
18:35 < quinq> Ah yeah thrig, then that's not git
18:35 < Bradipo> And furthermore, Git is a truly DVCS in which each clone is in theory as equivalent as any other clone.
18:36 < quinq> It's also a branching VCS
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18:37 < Bradipo> Yeah, I suppose Git does have that, so in that sense, Git has the potential to diverge (e.g. not all clones will have all branches).
18:38 < quinq> I was just continuing stating quasi random facts ;)
18:39 < IcePic> cat /dev/quasirandom 
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18:39 < thrig> echo 9 > /dev/quasirandom
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18:40 < quinq> \o/
18:43 < Bradipo> yes 9 > /dev/quasirandom
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18:49 < apotheon> 18:35 < Bradipo> There are plenty of people that don't understand that Git != GitHub.
18:49 < apotheon> . . . and that should concern us.
18:50 < apotheon> a little
18:50 < thrig> good thing regulators are there to prevent excess consolidation in the market
18:50 < apotheon> err
18:51 < apotheon> ENOBENEFIT
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19:50 < Posterdati> hi
19:50 < Posterdati> sibiria: hi
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19:54 < quinq> Hi sibiria 
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19:56 < sibiria> counter-helloes
19:56 < thrig> surface to hello missile
19:57 < quinq> hello-crash
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19:58 < thrig> wasn't that a scifi book
19:58 < quinq> The snow one?
19:59 < Posterdati> sibiria: now the mga g200e actually worked, the system, friendly, blank the console I have to perform to [CTRL]+[ALT]+[F4] to summon it :)
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20:06 < sibiria> maybe it's some tunable setting making xenodm not jump there on its own when it starts
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21:40 < leah> there's one thing i'm curious about
21:41 < thrig> who framed roger rabbit?
21:41 < leah> and i already know several reasons why this is insane/unworkable
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21:41 < leah> but i also know several ways it could be made to work
21:41 < leah> what if pledge became mandatory, in openbsd
21:41 < mason> I'm really just curious about how long it'll take to throw off the dominant economic system, but it'll happen when it happens.
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21:47 < leah> like, if pledge is called with promises set to NULL, then everything is allowed,
21:47 < leah> make that still be the case
21:48 < leah> but if pledge is *never* called, abort when the program runs. and modify clang/gcc to error on such condition, when compiling
21:48 < leah> i imagine most people will just opt to not thoroughly pledge their code, and like, just do pledge(NULL, NULL) or something
21:48 < thrig> mandating system that folks then put an 'ignore' line in for doesn't seem handy
21:48 < leah> but BUT
21:49 < thrig> also makes it harder to spot unpledged things
21:49 < leah> this will make more people then automatically become aware of pledge, when writing programs for openbsd
21:49 < leah> harder?
21:49 < mason> It might discourage ports.
21:49 < leah> ok, backup proposal:
21:49 < thrig> ps axo command,pledge
21:50 < leah> *don't* abort, but just modify all the compilers to warn when pledge isn't set
21:50 < leah> but not warn in a way that breaks Makefiles with -Werror set, for example
21:50 < leah> so like, just make it say something on stdout, not stderr
21:50 < leah> the compiler, i mean
21:51 < leah> pledge really is stupidly simple
21:51 < thrig> more warning noise probably isn't nice
21:51 < leah> most people get it like that
21:51 < Bradipo> Seems like too much subterfuge.
21:51 < leah> i've been auditing fiptool, a utility that is part of trustedfirmware's trusted-firmware-a repository, and i pledged it earlier. see:
21:51 < leah> https://review.trustedfirmware.org/c/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/+/21244/2
21:52 < leah> diff: https://review.trustedfirmware.org/c/TF-A/trusted-firmware-a/+/21244/2/tools/fiptool/fiptool.c
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21:52 < leah> i've just been super bored, and they became the subject of my boredom. and then i got that idea about mandating/heavily promoting pledge more thoroughly in openbsd
21:53 < Bradipo> Well, it would certainly work to get the plege() into more program, but would it accomplish more than that?
21:53 < leah> well, general auditing of code is still required with or without pledge
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21:54 < leah> oh, also i ported yt-dlp to openbsd earlier. it already worked, but their Makefile used pandoc for some docs in a way that b0rked. i think openbsd probably has old pandoc
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21:55 < leah> yeah 2.19.2 in 7.3. latest is pandoc 3.1.2. who's in charge of the pandoc port?
21:56 < leah> this is yt-dlp (Youtube download/streaming tool - if you symlink youtube-dl to it under /usr/local/bin, you can also stream youtube links with mpv)
21:56 < leah> https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp
21:57 < leah> so i won't send yt-dlp port (ipatched the makefile where it uses pandoc)
21:59 < namtsui> yt-dlp is available
22:00 < leah> really?
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22:00 < leah> i tried earlier but couldn't see it in ports
22:00 < leah> i stand corrected
22:04 < leah> weird
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22:07 < leah> but when i used pkg_add, nothing happened. sure enough i see it in ports though
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22:11 < sibiria> weird mirror? doesn't "pkg_info -Q yt-dlp" reveal it?
22:12 < leah> oddly enough, it says it's installed
22:12 < leah> but i installed it manually
22:12 < leah> hang on, let me try something
22:12 < Lucas6023> what's the meaning of "installed it manually"?
22:12 < Newbix> (can you unmute me from graphene its better to reply to reset the threshold than just touch the screen)
22:13 < leah> meaning i grabbed it from github and mv/chmod it to /usr/local/bin
22:14 < leah> k now it works. weird.
22:14 < Lucas6023> well, you can use `pkg_info -l yt-dlp` to see the package content
22:14 < xse> it's a dependency for mpv
22:14 < leah> if i install a package manually, but then run pkg_add for the same package, i guess openbsd overwrites it
22:15 < Lucas6023> ports assume full ownership of /usr/local
22:15 < thrig> mixing random changes into a vendor managed space can cause trouble, yes
22:15 < leah> so yeah it was just conflicting with what i'd installed
22:16 < leah> but when i ran it earlier, i'd ran it after i forgot to remove the one i'd installed manually
22:16 < leah> that's why i thought it didn't work
22:16 < leah> if a package is already installed and you do pkg_add, it doesn't say anything, just exits
22:17 < leah> in other words, i'm retarded
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22:18 < sibiria> well, don't worry, scrote. lots of people are tarded and live kick-ass lives. my ex-wife is tarded. she's a pilot now
22:19 < leah> i'm a bit of a weird user, because i've read like 1/3 of your source tree or more
22:20 < leah> but it's not my main OS so i'm not familiar with certain quirks
22:20 < sibiria> it's a little bit weird pkg_add doesn't croak with a clear message when some destination file of the package already exists
22:20 < leah> is that a normal thing? to read someone's source code and never use 98% of the code you read
22:20 < leah> i just get really bored on my nights off
22:20 < Lucas6023> it makes sense imo. It's literally how it makes updates.
22:21 < leah> anyway this was my error, please excuse my inanity
22:22 < leah> i use 2 computers, one of them openbsd, and i've been slowly gravitating to the openbsd machine
22:22 < leah> the other machine dualboots debian and freebsd
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22:22 < Lucas6023> now, if the question is if it should croak if the destination file exists *and* it's being installed for the first time, then yes, a message can be useful
22:23 < Lucas6023> but I'm not super sure if it's helpful. What would be the message? "hey user, destination exists. Thrashing it. kthxbye~"?
22:23 < Lucas6023> or should it abort the installation?
22:23 < leah> but is that normal? like, to learn an OS/project by reading its source code rather than installing it
22:23 < leah> i did that with alpine linux too, and i've used it for a total of about 1 hour :S
22:24 < sibiria> do { exit if -e $_ } for @output; # marc espie wuz here
22:24 < leah> use means: doing stuff on it. as opposed to just like, ssh'ing into it to build-test stuff, which is how i use alpine (when testing stuff on musl libc)
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22:27 < leah> follow-up.... when i did pkg_delete yt-dlp it also deleted mpv - and i was told here that the latter has the former as dependency
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22:27 < leah> i'm going to assume that's normal behaviour
22:27 < Lucas6023> yes, you can't delete a dependency without deleting the main package
22:28 < Lucas6023> otherwise you leave the system broken
22:28 < Lucas6023> "system"
22:28 < leah> noted
22:28 < Lucas6023> the port
22:28 < leah> well, i'd regard yt-dlp as optional for mpv, personally
22:28 < sibiria> same. weird that it's a hard-depend
22:28 < leah> not everyone will use it to stream yt
22:29 < sibiria> because within mpv it's a soft dependency
22:29 < Lucas6023> OpenBSD ports aren't exactly minimal
22:29 < leah> define minimal
22:29 < Lucas6023> they tend to find a balance between not too much crap and being useful for a good portion of people
22:29 < leah> ah, yes
22:29 < sibiria> ./configure --with-most-stuff
22:30 < leah> the machine i'm running openbsd on is a piece of crap
22:30 < leah> old dell laptop
22:30 < leah> *really old* dell laptop
22:30 < Lucas6023> for some reason people tend to start using OpenBSD in that kind of hardware
22:30 < leah> with an unsupported nvidia card. i mean, the nv driver works but it's slow
22:31 < leah> when i'm at home i have 2 computers on simultaneously: one is the dell, with openbsd. i use it to watch anime while i do work, on the main laptop, mostly booting debian sid, occasionally freebsd
22:31 < leah> i got the idea in my head that i want to switch to openbsd as main but not everything i use is ported yet
22:32 < leah> that includes literally all of my own software, which i've yet to port. so it's sort of a transition
22:32 < leah> so when porting i use the dell
22:34 < leah> also the dell is a bit broken in openbsd. em0 only initialises when i say nice things to it
22:35 < leah> only happens in coreboot, which i currently run on it. (yes, i know openbsd hates careboot, because it often breaks openbsd)
22:35 < leah> coreboot*
22:35 < leah> the wifi works tho
22:37 < leah> so, it's a really crappy old dell with no ethernet and slow unaccelerated graphics
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22:39 < sibiria> good thing it's anime you watch on it, with usually low bitrate and low complexity mpeg bitstream, since no va-api or vdpau support
22:39 < sibiria> openbsd would really take a large step into desktopism with hw video decoding support
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22:43 < leah> wayland support would be nice
22:44 < leah> no vaapi/vdpau at all?
22:44 < leah> still it seems to run my stuff fine, especially when i try it on some of my faster machines. guess it depends how you use a computer
22:45 < leah> i found that weird so i checked online, according to this it works on intel graphics: https://www.reddit.com/r/openbsd/comments/j43ptp/vdpauvaapi_support/
22:45 < leah> the other machine i tried had intel hd4600
22:47 < leah> well on the dell, basically anything 720p up to 60fps, unscaled, works well enough. scaling is really slow
22:47 < leah> for watching videos
22:48 < Lucas6023> there are some wayland ports fwiw
22:48 < leah> where can i find that?
22:48 -!- Alhazred [~Alhazred@user/Alhazred] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
22:49 < Lucas6023> pkg_info -Q wayland
22:50 -!- CalculusCats [NyaaTheKit@user/calculuscat] has quit [Quit: Meow Meow Meow Meow Meow Meow Meow Meow]
22:50 < leah> there are 3 things i want in openbsd.... and if nobody else does it i'll eventually attempt it myself: wayland, zfs(or hammer2 port) and... vga emulation in vmm
22:50 -!- Alhazred [~Alhazred@user/Alhazred] has joined #openbsd
22:50 < leah> does it actually work though?
22:51 < leah> that wayland port
22:51 < Lucas6023> no clue
22:52 -!- CalculusCats [NyaaTheKit@user/calculuscat] has joined #openbsd
22:52 < leah> this is all i see in revision history:
22:52 < leah> https://github.com/openbsd/ports/commits/master/wayland/wayland
22:53 < leah> but here i see it reference openbsd: https://github.com/openbsd/ports/commit/59492b887bad67e66cc64dfe6de6db0cf020c921
22:53 -!- archpc [~archpc@user/archpc] has quit [Quit: rm -rf /home/archpc]
22:53 < leah> guess i'll try it at anothe rtime
22:54 < leah> https://github.com/openbsd/ports/commit/059f97c83c19c9d9800c5d256c2eb68ab9b2c699 has the patches
22:54 -!- archpc [~archpc@user/archpc] has joined #openbsd
22:54 < uwharrie> it's mainly a shim similar to some of the systemd shims necessary to keep KDE working
22:54 < leah> it said "import" so i assumed it'd be no changes, then follow up with changes, but the patches are in there
22:54 < leah> yeah that's what i meant when i asked if it works
22:54 < leah> like, actually could you run a compositor on it and then run a window manager on top
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22:55 < uwharrie> heh, xenowayland
22:56 < leah> also, kde in openbsd?
22:56 < leah> https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=&path=&pkgname=kde&category=&maintainer= yes!
22:57 < leah> last i checked, this was still in development
22:57 < Lucas6023> ???
22:57 < Lucas6023> kde is supported since v3 at least
22:57 < sibiria> kde was the very first desktop environment i used on openbsd, same day i did my first install of openbsd in 2001
22:57 < leah> weird
22:57 < leah> i thought kde wasn't available n openbsd for some reason
22:58 -!- sliced [~sliced@81.15.241.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
22:58 < uwharrie> it's still a WIP https://github.com/openbsd/ports/blob/master/x11/kde-plasma/Makefile#L23
22:59 < Lucas6023> sibiria: ok, that's probably beyond v3 ^^
22:59 < leah> https://www.sizeofvoid.org/posts/2022-26-12-openbsd-kde-status-report-2022/
22:59 < leah> this is what i read before
22:59 < sibiria> Lucas6023: it was on 2.8, in early 2001
22:59 < Lucas6023> I meant v3 of KDE ftr
22:59 < sibiria> but i think our KDE is "stuck" on 4.0, no?
23:00 < Lucas6023> 5 I believe
23:00 < Lucas6023> but I don't use KDE
23:00 < leah> what i *really* want is lxde
23:00 < leah> https://openports.pl/search?file=&descr=&path=&pkgname=lxde&category=&maintainer=
23:00 < leah> lxde is unavailable
23:00 < leah> that's my favourite DE on linux/freebsd
23:00 < sibiria> Lucas6023: ah. yeah it was either kde1 or 2, cannot recall
23:01 < Lucas6023> bc it isn't called lxde anymore? isn't lxqt for a long time already?
23:01 < leah> there was work a few years ago on it but evidently dropped
23:01 < leah> no, lxde is still a thing
23:01 < leah> it even gets releases
23:02 < leah> lxqt is quite a lot of bloat in comparison, lxde is much lighter
23:03 < leah> there's not a lot to it because it's just the applications running under openbsd, plus stuff like lxpanel
23:03 < leah> running under openbox rather
23:04 < leah> https://github.com/orgs/lxde/repositories --> and lxqt is many times more code: https://github.com/orgs/lxqt/repositories
23:06 < leah> the last release of lxde was 12 days ago!
23:07 < leah> well, at least archlinux updated it 12 days ago: https://archlinux.org/groups/x86_64/lxde/
23:08 < leah> activity in github says about 2 weeks ago since last update
23:08 < riceandbeans> They were different attempts at a similar goal
23:08 < riceandbeans> lxde wanted to use gtk2, lxqt wanted to use qt
23:08 < leah> lxde has stuff for gtk3 now i think
23:08 < riceandbeans> I believe lxqt became razor something or other
23:08 < thrig> isn't this what the thunderdome was invented for
23:09 < leah> but they support both
23:09 < riceandbeans> That would be unfortunate because gtk3 brought in a lot of performance issues and bloat that it meant to avoid
23:09 < leah> where they have something available for gtk3 they'll still maintain the gtk2 version
23:09 < riceandbeans> thrig: two DE's enter, one DE leaves?
23:09 < leah> yeah gtk3 is horrible
23:09 < thrig> hopefully both die of their wounds
23:09 < riceandbeans> lol
23:09 < riceandbeans> I just sit with openbox and tint2
23:09 < leah> what else is there though, besides qt and gtk?
23:09 < riceandbeans> A lot.
23:09 < leah> other than.... tk
23:10 < thrig> motif, gently used
23:10 < riceandbeans> But in the *nix world, in terms of libraries for x11, those are the top contenders
23:10 < riceandbeans> wxwidgets
23:10 < riceandbeans> the enlightenment libraries
23:10 < leah> i haven't looked much at qt but that's kde land so i assume bloat
23:10 < riceandbeans> qt isn't kde
23:10 < leah> if lxqt is anything to go by (double the memory usage compared to lxde)
23:10 < riceandbeans> kde just makes use of pretty much exclusively qt
23:10 < leah> yeah but qt was made for kde
23:11 < leah> wasn't it?
23:11 < riceandbeans> qt predates jkde
23:11 < riceandbeans> kde
23:11 < leah> ok
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23:11 < riceandbeans> qt was, iirc, originally a nokia project
23:12 < riceandbeans> iirc it also had the benefit of being bsd2 vs the gtk+ libs which were gpl2 and I think gtk3 is gpl3
23:13 < leah> i've never used wxwidgets in anything
23:13 < martian67> it was not
23:13 < martian67> nokia bought it though
23:13 < martian67> and spun it out again
23:13 < martian67> qt was also never bsd
23:13 < martian67> it was always gpl
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23:13 < martian67> (and originally proprietary)
23:14 < brocashelm> would be nice if tde was ported
23:14 < leah> trinity?
23:14 < brocashelm> yup
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23:14 < leah> didn't know that was still kicking around
23:14 < vhns> This is not to bash you or anything, but I always find it interesting how good programmers sometimes don't know the history of stuff like this, leah 
23:14 < vhns> Btw nice work on libreboot :)
23:15 < leah> "good programmer" haha
23:15 < leah> that's a good one
23:15 < brocashelm> for now, i just use xfce, but looking for other options as i dislike post-gtk2 and don't want wayshitland
23:15 < leah> but yeah i rarely touch gui stuff
23:16 < brocashelm> the whole linux ecosystem is a fucking mess of security and stability implementations
23:16 < leah> mainly in the kernel
23:16 -!- adip [~adip@c136-211.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
23:16 < leah> and i guess glibc
23:17 < leah> the rest of it is mostly stuff that's ported to everything else
23:18 < brocashelm> i see all these non-systemd linux distros constantly fighting with upstream decisions, which is the inevitable fate
23:18 < leah> if you ever want to know why gnu software is the worst software ever, i dare you to download and look at this source code:
23:18 < leah> https://www.gnu.org/software/hello/
23:18 < leah> it's a hello world program, but it's so bad it's a meme, and it will colour how you view the rest of gnu
23:19 < leah> they unironically tout that as a shining example of how to write software
23:19 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:19 < phy1729> please try to avoid shitting on other projects (regardless of how well deserved)
23:19 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd
23:19 < leah> it even uses gnulib, their not-invented-here steaming pile of crap assortment of mostly superfluous libc extensions, on top of their already insanely over-engineered libc
23:20 < leah> just to handle translations
23:20 < brocashelm> :D
23:20 < leah> phy1729: noted
23:20 < brocashelm> ^^^
23:20 < leah> i actually once tried to fork it, to write a program called "insult". which would shout random curse worlds and intimidating messages to the user, in english, dutch and german
23:20 < leah> i failed horribly. the code was that bad
23:20 < vhns> sounds like sudo's option to insult you 
23:21 < vhns> except multilang
23:21 < leah> sudo has an insult mode?
23:21 < brocashelm> yep, at least what i saw on slackware
23:21 < brocashelm> like if you fuck up your password, you get one of those teasing responses
23:23 < riceandbeans> Hmmmm so qt wasn't always gpl but it wasn't explicitly bsd either, but it had a whole series of issues of license changes in the early days, with KDE forming a foundation to ensure it would be bsd licensed going forward if someone tried to close source it
23:23 < riceandbeans> I knew there was something bsd in its history
23:23 < brocashelm> iirc, qt was proprietary until or right before kde maintained the free version
23:24 < riceandbeans> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qt_(software)#History_of_Qt
23:24 < riceandbeans> I was just reading this because I was like, did I misremember all of the history?
23:24 < brocashelm> i just want my gtk2 back
23:24 < brocashelm> glad leafpad is still in the ports
23:24 < leah> thing is though, and this is to comply with phy1729's request.... gnu code can be tamed. some of it is redeemable
23:25 < riceandbeans> gpl can taint a codebase if you're not careful
23:25 < riceandbeans> by design.
23:25 < vhns> leah: "     insults           If set, sudo will insult users when they enter an incorrect password.  This flag is off by default.
23:25 < vhns> "
23:25 < vhns> You put that in sudoers file 
23:25 < leah> i want to provide an example of this
23:25 < vhns> You mean the file that includes the insults? 
23:25 < leah> so, GNU GRUB has a program under utils called spkmodem-recv
23:25 < brocashelm> the insults are on by default for openbsd and slackware (which is said to be the most unix-like linux)
23:25 < vhns> Oh, sorry
23:26 < vhns> brocashelm: Yeah, you don't really want people at work on you RHEL box to see cursing
23:26 < leah> it's a receiving client for spkmodem, a protocol that sends pulses over PC speaker to implement a serial console. coreboot has a driver for that, to get serial console
23:26 < vhns> That's a one way ticket to HR, nowadays
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23:26 < leah> here is spkmodem-recv, their receiving client:
23:26 < leah> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grub.git/plain/util/spkmodem-recv.c?id=822b726b33b8dc07dd01b257a2dfcc7b07d12e2f
23:26 < brocashelm> lol, i should turn that on for my devuan systems
23:26 < leah> classic gnu indent style. it's basically a binary blob masquerading as source code
23:26 -!- ox1eef_ [~mrleef@al-quran.reflectslight.io] has joined #openbsd
23:26 < leah> and here's the redemption: https://browse.libreboot.org/lbmk.git/plain/util/spkmodem_recv/spkmodem-recv.c?id=83ecf2683382b11562ab4d4ec10c971b655950f2
23:26 -!- morte [~user@user/monkey/x-0691028] has joined #openbsd
23:27 < leah> ^ i tidied up the code, converted it to bsd-like style, top-down order, split up main into digestable functions and... pledged it :)
23:27 < leah> that last link is my fork of it. some of gnu is ok-ish and salvageable :)
23:28 < leah> vhns: that's hilarious. thank you for showing me that!
23:29 -!- SirJitsu [~SirJitsu@162-231-111-175.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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23:30 < phy1729> leah: https://github.com/openbsd/src/blob/aafb87a3c4068c41e18a4b1a18d559d8259234bb/usr.bin/sudo/ins_csops.h and the other ins_ headers
23:30 < leah> there is one thing that always irks me about openbsd
23:30 < Bradipo> Only one?
23:30 < leah> why isc license?
23:30 < leah> why not mit instead?
23:30 -!- zimmer [~zimmer@51.219.226.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:31 < leah> and why the *old* isc license? (with just "and" rather than "and/or")
23:31 -!- zimmer [~zimmer@51.219.226.24] has joined #openbsd
23:31 < oldlaptop> "There's this one thing that irks me about X11. Why X11 license? Why not ISC instead?"
23:31 < leah> >     "Listen, broccoli brains, I don't have time to listen to this trash.",
23:31 < phy1729> for the later I think that's been asked on misc@ and Theo responded
23:31 < leah> that's from that sudo file
23:32 < oldlaptop> as for and/or, the position seems to be that the change is unnecessary at best and dangerous at worst
23:32 < leah> broccoli is actually good for your brain
23:32 -!- brocashelm [~brocashel@user/brocashelm] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
23:32 < leah> it's full of calcium and other goodness
23:32 < oldlaptop> and yet does brocolli work as a brain?
23:32 < oldlaptop> Or even broccoli.
23:32 < leah> probably not
23:33 < leah> certain green vegetables are rich in calcium. and animals you drink milk of get their calcium from eating lots of green things
23:34 < leah> and calcium assists with bloodflow to the brain, and general brain function
23:35 < leah> everyone talks about bones, but it's the brain that you should be looking at. calcium deficiency has severe impact on cognition
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23:37 < leah> that's enough of my insanity for one day, i think
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23:42 < leah> i'm really annoyed that openbsd has yt-dlp. i was excited earlier and was going to do a port
23:42 < leah> but i'll put on todo to update pandoc. openbsd's pandoc version is horribly out of date
23:43 < leah> i actually maintain my own static site generator that uses pandoc. it's written in bash but i've on todo to un-bashify it. running it onan openbsd server with httpd would be kinda cool
23:44 < brocashelm1> i just wget the upstream binary and run yt-dlp -U since youtube keeps fucking it up
23:44 < leah> yeah best always use upstream. youtube changes stuff all the time
23:44 < brocashelm1> although due to the annoying throttling i get with mpv, i've come to just use invidious instances like yewtu.be
23:44 < leah> throttling in mpv?
23:44 < brocashelm1> and that's only youtube's fault
23:45 < brocashelm1> yes, i get like 15 seconds of video as most and then it just stops buffering
23:45 < brocashelm1> sometimes i won't get video at all (but audio plays)
23:45 < leah> i recall youtube-dl having throttling issues, yt-dlp seemed to fix that
23:45 < brocashelm1> nope
23:45 < brocashelm1> still a problem
23:45 < leah> really now
23:45 < oldlaptop> haskell stuff is, AIUI, rather painful
23:45 < leah> what is invidious doing differently?
23:45 < brocashelm1> i'll have to retry the url 4-5 times to get a working stream
23:45 < oldlaptop> there was a big stink about that some time ago, ended with most hs-foo ports being removed as unmaintainable
23:45 < brocashelm1> not being based on python? lol
23:45 < oldlaptop> (or something)
23:46 < brocashelm1> err, not using python
23:46 < leah> the nice thing about invidious is you can use it with javascript disabled
23:46 < leah> you only get the low res modes when you do that, but still
23:46 < oldlaptop> On the plus side ghc doesn't generate WXNEEDED binaries anymore, so that's nice.
23:46 < brocashelm1> https://github.com/iv-org/invidious
23:46 < leah> so like. tor browser with security on max will work just fine in invidious sites
23:46 < brocashelm1> if there was a way to use mpv with that, i'd be sold
23:47 < leah> weird, i'm watching a resident evil longplay in mpv as we speak and it works great
23:47 < brocashelm1> but i think mpv only relies on youtube-dl/yt-dlp
23:47 < brocashelm1> sometimes it can work
23:47 < leah> (using yt-dlp)
23:47 < brocashelm1> it usually doesn't IME
23:48 < leah> (stream in mpv with yt-dlp)
23:48 < brocashelm1> thankfully, my rss lit of channels is mostly odysee and bitchute, so no throttling there
23:48 < leah> also, yt-dlp works with age restricted videos
23:48 < leah> invidious doesn't, last i checked
23:48 < brocashelm1> i use newsboat for my non-account, non-bloatware rss feed reader to keep up with my channels
23:48 < leah> or was that copy protected videos?
23:48 < leah> like official music videos or whatever
23:49 < leah> there is one thing that would be absolutely killer in mpv+yt-dlp
23:49 < leah> so, viz media, a US-based media company, they do anime stuff right?
23:49 -!- brocashelm1 is now known as brocashelm
23:49 < brocashelm> or manga? ;)
23:49 -!- lpn-cls [~lpn-cls@user/lpn-cls] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
23:49 < leah> well, for US viewers (US IP address), if you're *logged in* to youtube.com in the browser,
23:50 < leah> viz media provides classic animes for free, via youtube. but only via youtube.com, to US IP addresses, and only if you're logged in
23:50 < leah> i tried with US VPN and yt-dlp, no luck
23:50 < leah> you can legally watch death note and sailor moon on youtube
23:50 < leah> the *good* sailor moon, with the gay stuff uncensored
23:52 < leah> i don't know if that using EME stuff though, in the browser. haven't checked
23:53 < leah> if it is, then that implies wivedine. so, no luck for bsd users (unless you can somehow run wivedine in bsd?)
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--- Log closed Wed May 31 00:00:59 2023