--- Log opened Tue Jun 13 00:00:17 2023
00:01 -!- manu1 [~p4x639@2001:871:250:615:d004:bcf8:798f:4440] has joined #openbsd
00:01 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has joined #openbsd
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00:11 < manu1> what could one do with openbsd at home?
00:11 -!- jfsimon1981_c [~jfsimon19@86.207.155.171] has joined #openbsd
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00:17 -!- foul_owl [~kerry@71.212.137.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
00:18 -!- terminalpusher [~terminalp@2a01:586:b48:1:38ff:6f5:d6b9:5000] has joined #openbsd
00:19 < pardis> build a detonator for a homemade explosive
00:19 -!- weevoy [~weevoy@5.202.22.181] has joined #openbsd
00:21 < manu1> lol
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00:25 -!- kodcode3 [~kodcode@user/kodcode] has joined #openbsd
00:27 < brocashelm> rock-solid, stable
00:29 < thrig> demon core, daemon core
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02:31 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: okt, frodo, emigrant, shann, insistent, coyote, ninjin, fputs-, anshupati, sliwkr,  (+49 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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08:49 < Voyager_MP> I would like to combine 2 auth methods in login.conf like this :auth-styles=auth-yubikey,auth-password:\
08:49 < Voyager_MP> is it possible ? 
08:50 < Voyager_MP> :auth=yubikey,password:\ does not work 
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09:03 < rjc> Voyager_MP: it's possible but you'll need an authentication type which forces both, e.g. -totp-and-pwd
09:04 < rjc> , means or
09:08 < holsta> Voyager_MP: Is that for local login or via SSH? If the latter, see AuthenticationMethods in sshd_config
09:09 < Voyager_MP> I got ssh working with both, I would like this for local 
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09:17 < holsta> Voyager_MP: Pretty sure you need to write your own login handler that accepts both password and yubikey.
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11:40 < rebo> While reddit is down, some light riceing in OpenBSD
11:40 < rebo> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/727023752348434436/1118142778547896330/OpenBSD.png
11:42 < xtile> Imagine linking a Discord link in a channel for an OS without a Discord client.
11:42 < rebo> Use the webapp, that's what I did :) But yeah
11:43 < xtile> Or use something that works on OpenBSD. :P
11:43 < sibiria> like a web browser?
11:44 < rebo> yep
11:44 < rebo> Discord works in the browser, so I have that going for me as well :)
11:44 < sibiria> discord web client works great in my experience, including audio/video
11:45 < rebo> Still, I'm way way new in OpenBSD so I have a lot to learn still. 
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11:45 < rebo> haven't really got audio (michrophone) to work YET, but video works fine!
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12:27 < cpet> Kind of disappointed in my yubikey
12:29 < chumphries> it's silly to not use something just because there isn't native app support in OpenBSD - webapps are fine, no need to go all 31337 about it. 
12:29 < chumphries> cpet: what's wrong? Is this related to attempting to use it for local auth? 
12:30 < cpet> Yeah and a lot of apps don't support it 
12:30 < cpet> Rather use web clients than software
12:32 < chumphries> That has been my experience with yubikey, too. It is nice (I think I have them all), but ultimately it comes down to two problem domains: 1) lack of support across the board [versus like google authenticator and compatibles; 2) I lose everything but I always have my phone (and tablet as backup) for Authy. Sure it is a tradeoff, but better than having to get 2FA/MFA reset everywhere [I've done that 
12:32 < chumphries> more than once, heh]
12:33 < chumphries> plus web clients versus native electron/webapp wrappers is an rediculous argument, anyway. They're both webapps. 
12:34 < cpet> Basically mobile apps are just that 
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12:45 < IcePic> yes, electron "apps" is just a rehash of the old "this program/game is just MS IE going to localhost:80 to get a flash game" 
12:45 < IcePic> flash program*
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13:00 < jcs> grandpa, what's a flash game?
13:02 < byteskeptical> the devil boi, the devil
13:02 < byteskeptical> or gur
13:04 < rjc> jcs: it's a bit like a java applet - you need a plug-in for that, child
13:04 < jcs> oh java, that's like javascript right?
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13:06 < thedaemon_> You are giving me anxiety lol
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13:13 < quinq> They call it “modern” software
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13:13 < quinq> Rebranding old mistakes
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13:13 < oldlaptop> (or just making them again because we forgot already)
13:14 < quinq> I'm not sure they forgot much
13:14 < thrig> didn't the browsers get rid of plugins
13:14 < quinq> They just were not bothered to look at history
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13:14 < oldlaptop> That's a species of 'we forgot' for this purpose
13:15 < quinq> “Hey, let's invent a square wheel! Surely we're the first to have thought about it!”
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13:15 < oldlaptop> thrig: then reimplemented them in webassembly, or something
13:16 < oldlaptop> there is a concrete difference, I suppose, the browser has one bytecode VM built in that you must use, there isn't an extra one
13:16 < thrig> maybe the security is better this time around?
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13:18 < quinq> Because of the theorical model, or the implementation?
13:19 < oldlaptop> there's no obvious reason the VM should be inherently more secure because it's tightly coupled to the browser
13:20 < oldlaptop> whether in practice browser vendors do a good job than every single plugin vendor would be a different question
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14:17 < SusanTheNerd> has anyone issues with firefox on current?
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14:18 < SusanTheNerd> it worked before switiching to current
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14:18 < SusanTheNerd> and now it gives me core dupmed as the e
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14:21 < thrig> welcome to current, enjoy the testing of new things
14:21 < IcePic> SusanTheNerd: yes, the new clang security stuff shows issues with browsers and some other ports
14:22 < SusanTheNerd> so is there any fix?
14:22 < SusanTheNerd> or should I just reinstall everything?
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14:26 < IcePic> wait a bit, pkg_add -u in a few dates
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14:31 < SusanTheNerd> thats really not a solution for me
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14:31 < SusanTheNerd> I need to have a working browser and I won't use chromium
14:32 < thrig> try running 7.3 then
14:32 < chumphries> jcs: nice trolling :) 
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14:40 < chumphries> running current is inherently unstable, there should be no expectation of anything working (should be a few neon signs about it in the FAQ) 
14:40 < SusanTheNerd> I used it before and everything was working
14:41 < xtile> Don't use current then.
14:41 < SusanTheNerd> I mean I used current
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15:01 < caze> Sheesh, at least use a snapshot.
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15:02 < sibiria> SusanTheNerd: if you're using -current you're dogfooding the product. it's how it is
15:03 < SusanTheNerd> I am on the latest snapshot
15:03 < sibiria> -stable 4 lyfe
15:04 < caze> Check that your package mirror is synced with your snapshot.
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15:16 < byteskeptical> SusanTheNerd: it's a know issue
15:17 < byteskeptical> there is fix/work-around in the works just a matter of time until it hits the mirrors
15:21 < Bradipo> Known issue for what?
15:23 < byteskeptical> Certain ports on the current core dump: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugs&m=168659284227736&w=2
15:24 < Bradipo> Ahh, ok.
15:24 < byteskeptical> firefox, thunderbird, ffmpeg
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15:24 < byteskeptical> even chromium/iridium though I think it's dependency related they still technically launch
15:25 < ninjin> If I suspend with zzz(1) without starting X, I can resume safely. If I suspend from X the computer wakes up with dead X and borked keyboard input (I can reboot with the power button though). Not finding anything about this when reading, but maybe I am missing something?
15:25 < sibiria> that's a given. software must first launch before it can croak.
15:25  * sibiria runs
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15:25 < byteskeptical> well the rest of the list begs to differ
15:25 < sibiria> though that could be a nice and curious feature for comp-sci to take a bite of
15:26 < sibiria> (software that pre-emptively crashes even before launched)
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15:28 < byteskeptical> sibiria: i was being cheeky given that they do literally crash on jumps but yeah they do still init
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15:45 < solene> hello
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15:47 < byteskeptical> howdy
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15:55  * oldlaptop waves
15:55 < cpet> If you device resume from zzz consider yourself lucky 
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15:57 < oldlaptop> ninjin: You're certainly not going to find anything to the effect that "yeah, suspend/resume in X doesn't work for anyone", because that isn't the case. You have (presumably) some issue particular to your hardware, most likely your video hardware.
15:58 < oldlaptop> sendbug(1) may be the thing to do, though nobody can really say much without knowing anything at all about the hardware
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17:04 < sozuba> Hi does openbsd support wayland yet.I can't find updated info on that. Would appriciate if someone could let me know on the status
17:04 < xtile> A better question would be if Wayland supports OpenBSD yet.  Weston has a hard dependency on the Linux kernel and the Wayland devs have opposed changes to provide support for other OSes.
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17:05 < sozuba> fair enough. That's more than enough for an update. Thank you :)
17:06 < sozuba> and i agree, a project such as wayland should be open enough to not rely or fix themselves on any particular unix system.
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17:06 < xtile> but tbqh some third-party softwares do support... I heard some support FreeBSD but I haven't tried it yet
17:08 < sozuba> xtile: yes its possible to install Hyprland (a wayand compositor) on freebsd, I have tried it myself. I am moving away fromlinux to bsd and i am trying things one by one to decide
17:08  * xtile nods
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17:19 < oldlaptop> There's been some movement on getting certain wayland-ish libraries in ports so that ports that are actually useful (newer KDE stuff) will build
17:19 < oldlaptop> I strongly doubt X will be replaced until it truly has to be.
17:21 < pardis> I've been hearing that X is going away any moment now for about 10 years
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17:21 < pardis> (not in relation to OpenBSD, just in the broader ecosystem)
17:22 < xtile> I like X, it comes with nice tools that use Xaw
17:22 < xtile> xcalc, etc
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17:31 < sozuba> oldlaptop: i agree too. I don'tthink x will go way any time soon. This is more of a choice for me, I like hyprland and wanted to have it with BSD. But its fine.
17:32 < oldlaptop> patches welcome, I'm sure
17:33 < sozuba> haha,i wish.I am not that much of an expert yet,may be one day :)
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18:08 < dkeav> cool, so patches tomorrow then
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18:16 < sozuba> i am just about to install, i''make patches the moment i am done :P
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19:24 < sozuba> Okay openbsd installed, first time. I checked sysctl hw.sensors.cpu0.temp0 and the rsult is 60, is it to be expected for a newly installed system with nothing running 
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19:25 < lts> 60 is fine and there is nothing related to OpenBSD that would make it run hotter than with some other OS
19:25 < thrig> 46C here with a few things running
19:26 < thrig> (few things meaning 95% idle)
19:26 < quinq> Well, there's hw.setperf
19:27 < oldlaptop> Temperature sensor readings will be intensely specific to particular hardware
19:27 < quinq> (or rather hw.perfpolicy)
19:28 < oldlaptop> I'd generally expect laptops to idle in that range, and at any rate it's not remotely concerning as far as damage to anything goes
19:28 < thrig> and obsdfreqd
19:28 < oldlaptop> specified maxima in the datasheets are generally around 100C for modern CPUs
19:28 < lts> They will throttle before damage anyway
19:29 < oldlaptop> (and in practice it's not at all unusual for laptops, or for AMD's recent desktop products, to run in the 80C-90C range under load)
19:29 < sozuba> i recently installed freebsd too and  got similar range, it boots with 31 C from a state of rest and cool down and reaches to 58-60 C in a span of 18 mins without anything running in the background
19:29 < lts> It is typically the BIOS which controls the fans
19:29 < sozuba> in linux it starts at 33-34 C and reaches max 38-40 when idle
19:29 < oldlaptop> Higher operating temperature relative to ambient is actually better, assuming the hardware can tolerate it, in the sense that it improves the cooling system's efficiency
19:30 < sozuba> quinq: hw.stepref / perfpolicy? will check it out
19:30 < lts> Perhaps your linux runs a powersave governor, or similar. You can achieve the same with tools mentioned above
19:30 < oldlaptop> graphics cards designed to operate at 100C and above have shipped
19:30 < Erhard> The latest AMD Ryzens are designed to bang against 99degC.
19:30 < brocashelm> the only tool i know so far is obsdfreqd for frequency
19:31 < sozuba> Mine is an old lapatop, Thinkpad E450 bought in 2016
19:31 < sozuba> I am checking what quinq sugested
19:31 < sozuba> :)
19:31 < brocashelm> openbsd works well on my core2 cpu, but hw.sensors displays 0 for my frequencies
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19:32 < oldlaptop> sozuba: That does sound like there's probably something suboptimal in power management, then
19:32 < lts> Or dust
19:32 < oldlaptop> (which is not terribly surprising, unfortunately)
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19:32 < sozuba> lts: dust? is that a tool?
19:32 < oldlaptop> You can probably expect battery life to be worse relative to linux
19:32 < thrig> old laptops probably need cleaning
19:32 < oldlaptop> Dust is a substance which could cause your laptop's cooling system to operate poorly.
19:32 < lts> It is a tool for entropy and clogging fans, yes
19:33 < brocashelm> pkg-delete dust
19:33 < oldlaptop> if only it were that easy
19:34 < Erhard> An Air Compressor helps...
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19:34 < brocashelm> it didn't work. should've used the underscore XD
19:34  * oldlaptop would worry offhand about Edge-series alleged thinkpads being hard to take apart
19:34 < sozuba> thrig: its clean
19:34 < oldlaptop> Erhard: (careful about that drain valve)
19:34 < oldlaptop> most electronics do not enjoy being pelted with high-pressure rust water
19:34 < sozuba> oldlaptop: ah you meant that dust, sorry i am a bit drowsy and tired from work. So my mind is a bit wayward, haha
19:34 < sozuba> got it
19:35  * oldlaptop did not bring up dust at all
19:35 < brocashelm> my pcs were running smoothly without having been opened up once in just a whole year, but when i opened them up recently, i wasted an entire can...
19:35 < sozuba> lts: tool for entropy and clogging fans, that's a line i should use when seeling dust, I am stealing it
19:35 < sozuba> pkg_delete dust, hahahah yeah that would be awesome
19:36 < brocashelm> :)
19:36 < oldlaptop> pkg_add difluoroethane
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19:42 < sozuba> where can i read more about hw.setperf and hw.setperfpolicy?
19:42 < sibiria> simple cotton filter on all the air inlets, and sealing up the ones that don't aid with air flow, helps tremendously to reduce dust build-up even from years of usage
19:42 < Erhard> oldlaptop: LOL. It has never been an issue, but I do drain it.
19:42 < lts> sozuba: man 2 sysctl or internet search
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19:43 < Erhard> Got sick of destorying the environment for canned air.
19:43 < sozuba> lts: uternet search faild me, man sysctl, okay
19:43 < Erhard> And it saved tones of money. Paid for itself just for blowing electronics in like a year.
19:43 < dayid> sozuba: man 2 sysctl; the default is likely man 8 sysctl which is likely not what you want.
19:43 < Erhard> And works well for the nail gun too
19:43 < lts> The internet search is probably better actually :-) 
19:44 < Erhard> UNless you are blowing front silvered irrors I find the moisture thing to be way overrated.
19:44 < Erhard> front silvered mirrors...
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19:47 < sozuba> dayid: thanks dayid lts oldlaptop 
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20:17 -!- CheemsBread [~Thunderbi@2601:980:c003:ede0:1e37:cdf:5077:66bc] has joined #openbsd
20:17 < CheemsBread> hello openbased friends :)
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20:20 < brocashelm> we are the openbased lads
20:20 < brocashelm> leave tux at the door
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20:20 < brocashelm> the puffer fish is the word
20:21 < yuripv> is that a song or something?
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20:26 < brocashelm> it should be
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20:27 < brocashelm> let's make it happen on 7.4
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20:27  * brocashelm plays drums
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21:27 < yjgsjejdks> trying to install build nodejs using ports on aarch64 pinebookpro, got many deprecated warning from OSSL3.0. Ending at Makefile:134 with a Bus error. Every command is bus error and reboot is needed. what can I try please?
21:30 < yjgsjejdks> something related to memory?
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