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08:58 < cadmio> Hello
08:58 < cadmio> Do you known how the ARP protocol maps data pakcages containing public IPs with MAC addresses? 
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09:00 < zelest> I might misunderstand the question, but that shouldn't happen? The only arp packets you should see is the one from your network segment.. and if it's spoofed somehow, I *guess* it's ignored, if it doesn't match any of the locally routable networks.
09:01 -!- b50d [~b50d@62.96.54.30] has joined #openbsd
09:02 < renaud> if it's soofed, it is not ignored, but to spoof it, you will need to already be on the same network segment
09:02 < renaud> s/soofed/spoofed/
09:05 < cadmio> when a node wants to communicate to another node on another networks it uses the router's public address. I don't understdand how eventually it can reach the particular host on the local network
09:05 < renaud> that's the purpose of the routers
09:07 < renaud> if you are on 192.168.0.0/24, machines on 192.168.0.0/24 will ask for arp when they see something from an IP from the same network. If it comes from another network, they will send the packets to the router according to the route list on the host
09:07 < IcePic> if I want to ping 8.8.8.8 (not on my network) I talk to my default-gw, which gets the packet, and talks to its uplink, over and over UNTIL it is the last router closest to where 8.8.8.8 is, and that router gets to resolve the mac for 8.8.8.8. All the routers in between (and my host) don't know the mac of 8.8.8.8, but we know that in order to reach 8.8.8.8 we must hand the packet over to our router that 
09:07 < IcePic> will take it to the next step
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09:07 < IcePic> knowing the mac of 8.8.8.8 would not help my machine or my router the least and would only consume ram to no use
09:08 < zelest> renaud, spoofed as in, we sitting on 192.168/16 and me sending you "hey, 1.1.1.1 has 28:7f:cf:be:6c:91"
09:09 < zelest> s/has/is at
09:09 < renaud> if you closely look at the rules for network, technically, 2 hosts with different network ranges, but on the same physical network can talk to each other without a  router
09:10 < renaud> but, in general, that doesn't happen, because there are antispoofing rules
09:10 < zelest> ah, i guess
09:10 < renaud> and also, because they won't send arp
09:10 < renaud> by default
09:10 < IcePic> in the old days, the router (if it knows both networks) could send an icmp_redirect telling your host that host-on-other-net-but-same-L2 is reachable via mac x:y:z:w:r:t
09:11 < cadmio> so the end point router maps a private IP to a MAC address
09:11 < renaud> I remember that on windows NT4, you could set up 2 hosts on the same physical network, with 1 in the range 192.168.0.0/24 and the other on 10.0.0.0/24, and they wer e able to communicate without any issue
09:12 < IcePic> cadmio: not really sure what "private" is meant to mean in this context
09:12 < IcePic> not that I don't know that people use the term "private ip" for RFC1918 networks, but when talking about ARP, the privateness or not of any ip is not a factor at all
09:14 < renaud> private is a very bad term
09:14 < renaud> unrouteable is better
09:14 < cadmio> e.g you've an IP address like 192.168.1.52 that's a private IP addres
09:14 < renaud> although still confiusing
09:15 < IcePic> and not really related to Layer2 things, they don't care for Layer3 routability
09:16 < renaud> you can play with nping (part of nmap package), if you want to experiment
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09:18 < IcePic> I used to work with someone who was consistently wrong but ended up right anyhow, which would say things like "A switch is like a hub but it only sends out packet on the switchport where the destination IP is", which may feel like its true but the switch is more or less not caring about the ip at all, but only the mac. Which coincides with the ip, so the end result is "the same" except he didn't know the 
09:18 < IcePic> difference.
09:22 < renaud> some switches have IP to MAC tables too for security, to protect from spoofing.
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09:29 < IcePic> renaud: yes, and there are switches with L3-things added to them, but this was the period when one might encounter hubs in closets still
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09:44 < lts> I'm having trouble with pf queues. It seems I cannot set a queue bandwidth higher than about 4G, until it flips over and starts from zero, e.g. "bandwidth 5G" is interpreted as "bandwidth 705032704". Is there some 32-bit limit with PF I am hitting here?
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09:51 < lts> It seems I am, this FreeBSD commit looks very familiar https://reviews.freebsd.org/D16782
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09:59 < lts> Is it possible to have higher bandwidth queues?
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15:33 < Bradipo> Anyone recommend a lightweight python "IDE" that doesn't rely on Java?
15:33 < Bradipo> And isn't vim. :-)
15:34 < sibiria> so just syntax highlighting won't cut it?
15:34 < Bradipo> Honestly, it's more for debugging than editing.  I do all my edits in vi(1).
15:34 < Bradipo> pdb is kind of a bear to work with.
15:35 < sibiria> openbsd has a port of Kate, which has a lot of "IDE features"
15:35 < Bradipo> I don't even care about syntax highlighting.
15:35 < sibiria> though i don't know if it has a dedicated debug dialog
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15:36 < Bradipo> Neither Sublime nor Atom are in ports or I would give those a try.
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15:37 < sibiria> Sublime has a few debugger packages that are decent
15:37 < sibiria> pity no OpenBSD port from the author
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16:49 < Foxy_> Bradipo: Spyder https://www.spyder-ide.org/ is and IDE for Python written in Python - never personnaly used (Neovim rulez :) )
16:50 < Bradipo> Interesting, if it's written in python, I suppose it should work on OpenBSD.
16:50 < Bradipo> I don't see it in ports/packages.
16:51 < thrig> crouching tiger, hidden /proc use
16:52 < Bradipo> They claim that their Linux support is experimental---that may not bode well for OpenBSD.
16:52 < Bradipo> Though, perhaps the installer is the only experimental part about it.
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18:37 < Voyager_MP> rxvt-unicode-9.31p1-everything seems to have some bugs 
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18:37 < thrig> "everything" includes bugs in most philosophical systems
18:37 < Voyager_MP> vim looks ok, but vim under tmux 
18:37 < Voyager_MP> :D 
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18:49 < avemestr_> Bradipo: Geany perhaps?
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21:07 < oldlaptop> Bradipo: kdevelop (also in ports, same editor engine as kate) has some degree of python support, but I don't recall debugger-frontending being part of that
21:08 < oldlaptop> (it does have a serviceable gdb frontend - the most important feature obviously being that you can drop to a gdb prompt)
21:08 < Bradipo> I wonder if I can install kdevelop without pulling in all of KDE. :-)
21:09 < solene> Bradipo: pkg_add -s kdevelop to simulate what will happen
21:09 < oldlaptop> Well... define "all of kde"
21:10 < oldlaptop> It'll pull in a lot of libraries, and if it doesn't pull in the kate package you might as well install it anyway, but it shouldn't pull in that many other KDE *applications*
21:10 < brocashelm> you won't pull *all* of kde, but you'll still pull a lot of it, even for just one program (like okular or kolourpaint)
21:10 < oldlaptop> There still isn't a "desktop" per se to pull in anymore, though IIRC rsadowski@ is still working on that
21:10 < brocashelm> yeah, mostly libraries
21:10 < brocashelm> i don't think TDE is currently supported on openbsd, no?
21:11 < oldlaptop> I don't think anyone's shown real interest in porting it
21:12 < oldlaptop> https://openports.pl/path/devel/kdevelop the two actual applications I see here are sensible enough: kdevelop embeds the same kparts that kate and konsole are wrappers for
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21:18 < Bradipo> solene: Thanks, never knew about -s.
21:19 < solene> Bradipo: it's in the man page, and almost all package manager have a simulate option ;)
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21:21 < Bradipo> Yes, it's in the man page.  This is the first time I've encountered a "simulate" or "dry-run" option for package managers.  I don't often wonder "What would happen to my system if I install X" because generally, I don't care.  But now that I know about the option, I may use it more often.  I think a better option would be just to list the entire dependency list.
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21:23 < Bradipo> Yeah, this kdevelop is going to install a plethora of things, nice.
21:23 < solene> Bradipo: pkg_info -S http://ftp.fr.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.3/packages/amd64/kdevelop-22.12.3.tgz
21:23 < solene> it's not super user friendly, but you get the dependency tree through the signature
21:25 < solene> just add | tr ',' '\n' and it's much more readable :D
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 23 00:00:31 2023