--- Log opened Sun Jun 25 00:00:34 2023
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04:27 < tercaL> Good morning
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04:30 -!- J4gu4rKat [~JaguarKat@45-231-220-76.dyn.distrokom.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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04:54 < Erhard> 43
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11:02 < quinq> Does somebody around have an sshguard parser (or alternative) for smtpd?
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11:42 < seninha> Hi, yesterday i fell in a pitfall after trusting posix_spawnp(3) blindly... it does not say that the way it handles the envp parameter is an OpenBSD-only feature, and not portable: https://github.com/phillbush/xfiles/commit/a2b00ba9444ad6d2af221d9d1fef677eb110d821
11:42 < seninha> also https://github.com/phillbush/xfiles/commit/ad627cd8610859b780718a5e2e44e18dd25c51c0
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11:43 < seninha> I'm working on a patch for the manual to send to bugs@. I just want to know whether that is indeed a bug or something that should be fied
11:43 < seninha> *fixed
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11:55 < quinq> seninha, you can't rely on undefined behavior to have any portability
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11:55 < quinq> The bug isn't openbsd doing something on undefined behavior, it's calling the code with undefined behavior on the first place
11:56 < quinq> s/on the first place/in the first place/
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12:31 < seninha> quinq, i was referring to the manual, not the library call :). like, whether it is a bug to not specify that the behavior is undefined
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12:38 < quinq> Not really
12:38 < quinq> Because that's the general rule
12:39 < quinq> It's part of the standard
12:39 < quinq> Well, actually sorry
12:39 < quinq> (I'm reading it now)
12:39 < quinq> “If envp is NULL, the environment is passed unchanged from the parent process.”, yeah that could be improved indeed
12:40 < quinq> Sorry, I thought that the current behavior was just undocumented (which would make sense)
12:40 < seninha> Like, at least mention the OpenBSD behavior on the STANDARDS section
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12:41 < quinq> Do the glibc man-pages do something better in that regard?
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12:49 < seninha> quinq, no they only handle that case without describing it. But since OpenBSD's manual describes it, it should have a line at the STANDARDS section; just like how sleep(3) has the line "Setting errno is an extension to that specification."
12:50 < seninha> OpenBSD manual usually signals extensions to the standard.
12:50 < seninha> egrep "is an extension|are extensions" /usr/share/man/man3/*
12:56 < quinq> Or the infamous rand(3)
12:59 < thrig> people actually use posix_spawn?
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15:55 < TinyTimmyTokyo> Hi, I'm unable to boot OpenBSD 7.3 and -CURRENT on my laptop because of the error "panic: pci_make_tag: bad request". The laptop is a Dell Inspiron 3558.
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18:16 < arm64bro> hi all, i'm trying to install openbsd to an Arm computer, but its quite new so i'm not sure it's totally supported
18:16 < arm64bro> the rk3399 CPUs have a special installation step, thats: dd if=/usr/local/share/u-boot/board/idbloader.img of=/dev/sdXc seek=64
18:17 < arm64bro> oh and: dd if=/usr/local/share/u-boot/board/u-boot.itb of=/dev/sdXc seek=16384
18:17 < arm64bro> I'm trying to install to a FriendlyElec R5S, which uses the rk3588 i believe
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18:17 < arm64bro> So i'm wondering if I need a special magic seek number too, or I use this, or I do nothing and boot
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18:20 < sibiria> i don't think RK3588 support is fully formalized yet
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18:25 < arm64bro> that makes sense, but i actually bought the r5s because i heard someone else already got open running on it, and i just thought that would be so cool
18:25 < arm64bro> but in this space waiting a year for hardware support is normal right
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18:34 < sibiria> at the least
18:34 < thrig> ENODEVS
18:34 < thrig> or maybe ship a unit to a dev so they can play with it, but that gets into cat herding
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19:30 < kodcode> arm64bro: Have a look in the archive of arm@openbsd.org - there have been a few threads about the R5S - https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-arm&m=168142787314648&w=2
19:30 < arm64bro> kodcode awesome! thanks so much :)
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20:30 < p4x639> which download to chose? img or iso? i downloaded iso because it is the biggest one and hopefully includes most things, although i've an internet connection anyway so
20:31 < pardis> img is a disk image (mainly for USB sticks), iso is a CD-ROM image
20:31 < phy1729> Did you read https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Download?
20:31 < phy1729> bah should have added a space   https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Download
20:32 < p4x639> phy1729: yes that exactly, i'm used to iso from various linux distros, i guess there is not much difference?
20:32 < pardis> you've now read the answer in the FAQ and had it explained here
20:32 < pardis> I'm not sure how much clearer it can be made
20:33 < p4x639> both of them include file sets, i guess the faq is very opinionated about why it recommends me to use img over iso
20:33 < oldlaptop> p4x639: "Various linux distros" try to create ISO images that work both when actually burned to optical media and when written to a USB stick. OpenBSD's ISOs do not work like that, which is why the ".img" versions exist
20:33 < p4x639> ah okey thanks, so i'll go with the img then
20:34 < oldlaptop> You see that there are 'big' and 'little' versions of each, right?
20:35 < p4x639> yeah
20:35 < p4x639> didn't want to offend anyone, i very much like the docs and instructions, very simple and easy to read!
20:36 < thrig> please insert DVD #640, browser extensions part XVII
20:36 < p4x639> :)
20:37 < p4x639> i hope i'm not called crazy for using openbsd on a desktop :)
20:37 < oldlaptop> Not likely (in here anyway)
20:37 < thrig> that's a fairly typical use (here)
20:38 < cpet> Depends on what your use case is and how willing you are or trying to get a device working, or searching for compatible devices 
20:38 < cpet> Makes for a nice system 
20:38 < p4x639> i saw a discussion youtube, someone claimed i'm a "hacker" (in terms of the og definition) if i'm using openbsd on a desktop, the other one negotiated that
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20:38 < cpet> I doubt that 
20:38 < oldlaptop> I don't think the "og definition" involves using some particular operating system.
20:39 < cpet> I don't even consider myself a hacker for using Kali just a tool 
20:39 < cpet> But it's YouTube 
20:39 < p4x639> i'm just interested in how things work and i thought openbsd is the perfect os to learn how things work, i really hope everything is explained in hopefully useful manpages this time
20:40 < thrig> you may still need to read a Stevens book or two
20:40 < oldlaptop> (OpenBSD, and the modern BSD forks in general, *do* fit well with the orginal-sense 'hacker' ethos in the sense that it's relatively easy to have the whole system's source just sitting there for reference and/or ad-hoc modification)
20:41 < cpet> How things work ? 
20:41 < oldlaptop> It's definitely relatively easy to "learn how things work", partly for that reason and partly because OpenBSD is pretty simple for a production unixoid in 2023.
20:41 < pardis> a lot of the internals are not fully documented in man pages, but thankfully the source is also easy to read (at least, the parts that don't come from CSRG...)
20:42 < p4x639> i feel like openbsd is very much like emacs in terms of documentation :)
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20:46 < p4x639> thrig: which stevens book do you mean? 
20:46 < p4x639> advanced Programming in the Unix Environment (3rd Edition)?
20:46 < thrig> maybe also the networking one
20:47 < cpet> PF 
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20:52 < oldlaptop> https://www.openbsd.org/books.html may be worth a look (note there's at least one new MWL book not mentioned there, on filesystems; some might speculate that means there's an Absolute OpenBSD 3E in the offing)
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20:54 < thrig> is the HTML supposed to indent more for the BSD-specific books list?
20:54 < oldlaptop> The disclaimer at the top is important, and probably more so the more OpenBSD-specific it looks. (Just the description there for Palmer/Nazario mentions two technologies that have been ripped out since 2004, and one that's arguably superseded by wg(4))
20:54 < oldlaptop> thrig: I see constant indentation here
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20:55 < oldlaptop> and no reason in the markup they ought to be different
20:56 < oldlaptop> Doesn't ever close <dd> or <p> though, so maybe different browsers will parse that differently
20:56 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/le-indent.png
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20:56 < oldlaptop> yeah, firefox does not interpret that as nesting
20:57 < thrig> the web is buggy, who knew?
20:57 < oldlaptop> nor chrome(ium)
20:57  * oldlaptop rather suspects a likely reaction to a complaint about this markup on the lists might be `rm books.html`'
20:57 < thrig> xman did get nuked when somone complained about it
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20:58 < p4x639> depp is the abbrevation for? :)
20:58  * oldlaptop remembers someone getting lynx tedued by whining "where's my finger?!"
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23:13 -!- emigrant [~emigrant@109.231.52.255] has quit [Server closed connection]
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 26 00:00:35 2023