--- Log opened Tue Jun 27 00:00:37 2023
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07:22 < solene> morning
07:26 < renaud> hello solene 
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07:54 < Foxy_> hi solene :)
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07:55 < Foxy_> solene: are you THE Solène (R.) solene@ ?
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07:56 < pardis> as opposed to café Solène
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08:23 < tercaL> Good morning.
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08:55 < rebo> A bit better placement of screens. https://imgur.com/Vum3VQs
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08:58 < cpet> Are you the famouss foxy ? 
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09:01 < rebo> Foxy? Nope
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09:02 < cpet> No? Damn
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09:03 < sibiria> that's a lot of screens. i like your view outside
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09:04 < pardis> maybe that's also a screen
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09:11 < cpet> Screens on screens 
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09:23 < rebo> @sibiria? The view is awesome. 
09:23 < rebo> paradis: Nope. Just a regular window. 
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17:12 < mystic> hello guys, usually I have problems with chrome with freshness of page. This problem happens on website like facebook that should not have this kind of problem. To temporary solve the problem I have to press everytime the key ctrl+r.  What's could be the cause ?
17:12 < cpet> Doesn't really say much
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17:14 < mystic> cpet: what do u need to know ? I have openbsd 7.3 on virtualmachine.
17:15 < pardis> running chromium in a VM is probably not the best of ideas
17:15 < cpet> OpenBsd in a cm is fine just won't be fast you can easily run chrome in a vm
17:16 < pardis> can and should are two very different things
17:16 < cpet> Well he's running it in a vm help or be quiet 
17:16 < pardis> if you have a VM with a graphical display, you have another computer capable of rendering that display, which (in the 21st century) is almost certainly more powerful and capable of running chromium itself
17:17 < cpet> You can easily run chrome in a vm using soft rendering 
17:17 < cpet> Maybe he has windows on it and doesn't require a full install or he's learning it
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17:19 < pardis> there is no problem description adequate enough to help with as yet
17:19 < pardis> but based on the vague indication of a problem, I strongly suspect the slowness of chrome in a VM is related to the slowness of updating pages
17:19 < mystic> to be honest I don't understand why these comments. I run the virtualmachine on FreeBSD and I think to be experienced user. I have this kind of weird configurazione because I want add a further security layer around chrome. Because in my opinione te real weakness in modern desktop is the browser.
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17:21 < mystic> pardis: it's not slow, just simple chromium is unable to detect freshness of the page... for example. I make a post on facebook. I click in my profile to see the post, I don't see anything..I wait and I repeat and again I dont' see anything... my post is there, but chromium doesn't see the page is stale. I have to press ctrl+r to see the post. 
17:22 < pardis> that doesn't make any sense
17:22 < pardis> the web browser doesn't "see" any pages is stale
17:22 < pardis> it loads a page once, and doesn't load it again until you tell it to
17:22 < pardis> some websites have javascript which updates content on a page after loading, but that's not chromium's doing
17:23 < pardis> but if you are using software rendering in a VM, and your vcpu(s) are busy calculating polygons, javascript execution is likely to be slower
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17:24 < mystic> pardis: if you know how it works squid-proxy you should know what I'm talking about. It's not a rendering or speed problem. 
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17:24 < pardis> this is the first time you've mentioned squid at all
17:24 < pardis> how is it involved?
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17:25 < riceandbeans> Well, it used to be an octopus
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17:26 < mystic> I dont' have squid in my lan... this is just example to explain the problem of the freshness of the pages. If you configured squid there are some parameter in squid.conf to tunes the fresshness of the pages.. 
17:26 < riceandbeans> d'oh, ignore me, I read at first, how has it evolved.
17:26 < pardis> squid is a caching proxy, chromium is not a caching proxy
17:27 < pardis> it does cache, but it won't randomly "notice" it needs to refresh things in its cache if you don't refresh (which, according to you, fixes whatever problem you're seeing, so the problem is not using stale cache)
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17:29 < mystic> pardis: some years ago when I have configured squid I remember that there are some parameter to order to squid how decide that a page is fresh or not. If these parameter are to "conservative" the page are often stale during browsing web site. In this case is the same, but I don't have squid installed in my pc or lan.
17:30 < pardis> no, it's not the same
17:30 < pardis> the behaviour may be superficially similar, but you can't deduce that the cause must be the same based on that
17:30 < pardis> it clearly is not the same because you have already said that refreshing the page helps
17:31 < mystic> pardis: yes, but even in squid refreshing help squid to understand that the pages are stale..
17:32 < pardis> a refresh is, from squid's point of view, the same as loading a page the first time
17:33 < pardis> in any case, I still don't know why you expect a webpage to update without a refresh
17:33 < pardis> the only case in which that will happen is if the website does it for you, in which case the problem is with the website and not the browser
17:33 < mystic> pardis: no, I'm sorry it's not the same. Especially the key shift+ctrl+r is designed to order to a proxy to mandotory refresh the page.
17:34 < pardis> but we aren't talking about that
17:34 < eea> browser cache is not proxy cache
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17:34 < mystic> pardis: but cant' be that facebook has this kind of problem... in the past with other os I never had this problem
17:34 < pardis> which is why I said it might be a result of slowness in the VM
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17:35 < mystic> ok
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17:36 < pardis> or maybe general OpenBSD slowness, or maybe OpenBSD's chromium patches, or maybe Facebook serves different Javascript based on OS
17:36 < pardis> there are a million possible reasons but none of them are to do with "stale pages"
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17:38 < mystic> pardis: I'm sorry I'm meaning that the pages are stale... it's like to be the pages are stale... it's just a symptom... 
17:38 < mystic> pardis: I'm sorry I'm NOT meaning that the pages are stale... it's like to be the pages are stale... it's just a symptom... 
17:38 < thrig> a caching proxy is probably a bad fit for a javascript application
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18:10 < mystic> I want give you an other example of what I mean. Now I have two screenshots. I was browsing youtube on channel called "crime & justice", after watched one video on that channel I clicked in an other video on an other channel called "living light chrstian church". In the description of this video there is written a fake information: the channel is "crime & justice". This is the screenshot 
18:10 < mystic> https://i.imgur.com/CF0za44.jpg . The following second screenshot is after refreshing the page, now the description is true: https://i.imgur.com/y1fPrVP.jpg
18:13 < thrig> if the cache is causing problems, remove it
18:14 < mystic> the only cache is using chrome is that under ~/.cache/chromium there is not any squid-proxy installed in the lan or in the machine.
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18:28 < kodcode> how do I report a little bug (wrong file path) in a man page of a package?
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18:29 < thrig> is the bug in the upstream whatever?
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18:32 < cpet> send-pr
18:33 < cpet> Never understood why people don't like to send in PRs guess looking a fool upsets there ego 
18:33 < cpet> But that's what I would use 
18:35 < lts> Plus you get spam forever after your email address is a sender on a public mailing list
18:35 < cpet> Why I don't use them 
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18:39 < cpet> Plus Google caches it all 
18:40 < cpet> But I don't think the ML software gets updated much I know the gnu one hasn't been updated for years 
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19:03 < avemestr> mystic: Pressing F12 to open Developer Tools might reveal something in Chromium.
19:04 < avemestr> E.g. that the javascript on the websites are trying to load elements that fails or similar, that is served in a different way when you reload the browser.
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19:12 < avemestr> *the page
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19:16 < quinq> Hello o/
19:16 < byteskeptical> anyone ran into issues with trunkproto failover on a usb ethernet device? The initial failover works just fine but when plugging back in I get no dhcp except ipv6 temp
19:16 < quinq> I need halp with bridge and pf :)
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19:17 < byteskeptical> this is on an intel 2.5G nic
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19:22 < cpet> quinq: that sounds expensive my rate is 67/hr 
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19:23 < quinq> cpet, hahaha
19:23 < quinq> I'm trying to make a nice diagram (which could have just been explained in a few words)
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19:26 < cpet> DHCP isn't really meant to be used that way 
19:26 < quinq> ok, so
19:26 < quinq> https://fifth.space/misc/bridge0-egress.txt
19:26 < quinq> I follow teh FAQ at https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html
19:27 < quinq> I have one ethernet if (em0), used for Internet, that's my egress
19:27 < quinq> I have one ethernet if (em1) for my LAN
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19:27 < quinq> I had a classic working setup with that
19:28 < quinq> But I want to add wlan in there, so I added a mini-pci wlan card
19:28 < quinq> wi-fi side, it works fine
19:28 < quinq> But then I want to have both LAN and WLAN on the same addressing network
19:28 < quinq> So I created a bridge as recommended on that FAQ
19:29 < quinq> Now, I have no idea what I'm supposed to make in and out about that bridge
19:30 < quinq> Should I allow in from *all* bridge interfaces? Only for the actual interfaces, em0 and athn0? Or only the bridge0 interface? Or only the vether0 one?
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19:32 < quinq> Same question for “out”
19:33 < quinq> The note from bridge(4) has even thickened the story: “Bridged packets pass through pf(4) filters once as input on the receiving interface and once as output on all interfaces on which they are forwarded.  In order to pass through the bridge, packets must pass any in rules on the input and any out rules on the output interface.  Packets may be blocked either entering or leaving the bridge.”
19:33 < quinq> Because it's kind of contrary to the reality, where I can see packets blocked in f
19:34 < quinq> *blocked in on athn0
19:34 < quinq> Bute *also* in on vether0
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19:34 < quinq> Why vether0 and not em1?
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19:36 < quinq> Did I bore everybody to death?
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19:37 < tommyrot> we didn't want to interrupt your blog
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19:38 < quinq> :>
19:38 < cpet> Like I said 66/hr 
19:38 < cpet> 67
19:39 < quinq> I can give 67 cents per hour
19:40 < cpet> That's works but you'll just have me do a ls and then logout 
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19:42 < quinq> To be honest, I'm not really interested about what's in your CWD
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19:53 < nathanbw> I installed OpenBSD 7.3 (arm64) on a VM with a small qcow2 disk. Later, I expanded the size of the qcow2 disk and used fdisk to increase the size of the OpenBSD mbr partition, but now I'm having trouble making a new disklabel partition in the 
19:54 < nathanbw> new space
19:55 < nathanbw> I'm trying to add a new partition after all the other ones, and I'm getting "'m' aligned offset 31457280 lies outside the OpenBSD bounds or inside another partition"
19:55 < nathanbw> But that offset seems definitely inside the OpenBSD mbr partition and after all the other disklabel partitions
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19:57 < pardis> the disklabel has its own copy of the OpenBSD boundaries, which is populated based on the fdisk partition on creation but needs to be manually maintained afterwards
19:57 < pardis> see the 'b' command in disklabel(8)
19:58 < nathanbw> Thanks pardis -- trying that now
20:00 < nathanbw> That worked perfectly, thanks
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20:15 < mystic> avemestr: ok, thanks I try.
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20:25 < quinq> ok, so for those interested, veb+vport actually did nicely what I wanted
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20:25 < quinq> (in terms of networking at least)
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20:52 < mischief> we do be virtually bridging ethernet sometimes
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20:55 < mischief> quinq: https://github.com/mischief/ansible is my probably terrible attempt at using ansible for my router, which also uses veb+vport. i don't use wifi on it though.
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22:22 < wakaflaka> Hey
22:22 < wakaflaka> You guys run the opebsd source through chatgpt4 yet?
22:22 < wakaflaka> * open
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22:24 < pony> why
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22:28 < fro> who is you guys
22:29 < fro> like the whole channel or what?
22:29 < phy1729> it's not particularly topical
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22:30 < fro> it's a weird question but i don't agree that it's off topic
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23:39 < cpet> the whole ontopic offtopic shit is stupid
23:39 < cpet> if the channel is quiet we should be able to talk about !=- openbsd things
23:50 < fro> i don't disagree with that but it does get out of hand
23:50 < fro> however, asking if openbsd source code is run throuhg something isn't off topic
23:50 < fro> and if it is then that makes no sense
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23:51 < cpet> this whole libera chat twitter hashtag bullshit get irritating 
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23:52 < cpet> fro let me know how that goes though heard some interesting thigns regarding chatgpt
23:52 < fro> well i'm not the person that asked about it
23:52 < fro> just don't understand being told it's not topical
23:52 < cpet> oh for fucks sake
23:53 < fro> defending someone's right to ask stupid questions especially if they're related to openbsd!
23:53 < thrig> hopefully the next AI winter kills off the chatgpt noise
23:53 < cpet> against AI i see
23:53 < cpet> scared of Sjynet 
23:53 < fro> i don't even understand this chatgpt stuff
23:53 < cpet> skynet
23:54 < fro> obviously we about to get killed by robots
23:54 < cpet> if youll die seeing the titanic youll die getting killed by robots
23:54 < cpet> just how you see it
23:54 < fro> we're busy killing each other but all these nerds worried about a chat bot on the internet
23:55 < fro> i can't even get realiable search results these days
23:55 < fro> but i'm supposed to be scared of AI
23:56 < cpet> we need to let the robots fix out shity software
23:56 < fro> anyway i don't see what good can come of running openbsd source code through chatgpt
23:56 < fro> but i'll read about the results if someone does it
23:56 < cpet> im sure itll show and mention some funny things
23:57 < cpet> ok cool fixed curl
--- Log closed Wed Jun 28 00:00:38 2023