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03:38 < ubunju> Hi. I am trying to do something like ssh user@remote_server 'bash -s' < /root/script.sh from an openbsd computer, the sever is ubuntu. seem to be having issues, what am I doing wrong please?
03:39 < ubunju> ksh telling me permission denied, it thinks the script is local with that syntax
03:42 < thrig> something like or exactly like
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04:00 < ubunju> ksh: cannot open /root/script.sh: Permission denied
04:01 < thrig> maybe make it so the user has permission to open that file?
04:06 < ubunju> the user on the server is root, and created the script
04:06 < thrig> touch foo ; chmod 000 foo ; exec < foo
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05:32 < ubunju> thank you
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12:57 < icy> so i upgraded my server from 7.2 to 7.3 just now, and for some reason i can't seem to ssh into it anymore
12:57 < icy> i get a connection closed immediately after the motd gets printed
12:57 < icy> lemme pastebin the logs
12:59 < icy> https://paste.sr.ht/~icyphox/acf7e28fab55badac0ab04f542965470373affe6
13:00 < icy> it looks(?) like pledge
13:00 < icy> is doing something
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13:02 < icy> oh nevermind, it might be worse. i have ssh working on the git user and i tried switching to my primary user, and i get a segfault
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13:03 < icy> looks like fish (my shell on the main user) is borked somehow
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13:04 < phy1729> did you pkg_add -u after upgrading?
13:05 < icy> i wanted to shell into the machine to do post upgrade tasks
13:05 < icy> but i can't
13:05 < phy1729> ssh host ksh
13:06 < icy> that ends in exit status -1 as well
13:06 < phy1729> ksh -i seems to work better
13:06 < icy> welp, same thing
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13:07 < phy1729> I suppose you could try   ssh host doas pkg_add -u
13:08 < icy> debug1: Exit status -1
13:08 < icy> whatever command i try
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13:09 < icy> not sure why this is
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13:20 < jf> ky what is / was your shell on your server?
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13:20 < jf> *icy
13:20 < icy> jf: fish
13:23 < jf> icy thought so. installed fish is 7.2 and won't run under 7.3 changes. does "ssh -v denna /bin/ksh" work?
13:23 < icy> nope. i can't seem to run any commands.
13:24 < jf> ok, time to try the console then. 7.2 fish won't run under 7.3 :(
13:24 < icy> yep. that's my last resort. 
13:25 < icy> thanks for the help folks!
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14:08 < soundmodel> Hello, didn't find much infor on OpenBSD specifically on SoC Atom computers
14:08 < soundmodel> those with 32-bit UEFI, but 64-bit processor
14:09 < soundmodel> For these I assumed that grabbing the latest i386 version should work, right?
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14:10 < soundmodel> but it says "Machines using custom BIOS (such as older proprietary PCs, laptops, and some specialized server machines) may cause problems." at https://www.openbsd.org/i386.html
14:10 < soundmodel> so I wonder if these SoC computers fall under such
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14:15 < thrig> boot it and find out
14:16 < soundmodel> how do I recognize if it has such custom BIOS?
14:16 < thrig> boot it and find out
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14:17 < oldlaptop> soundmodel: There's such a wide variety of i386 (and amd64) machines with such a wide variety of firmware broken in such a wide variety of ways that it's impossible to make guarantees
14:18 < oldlaptop> I would expect OpenBSD/amd64 to run on 32-bit-UEFI-on-amd64 machines, offhand, though I don't have any hardware broken in that particular way to test.
14:18 < thrig> therefore...
14:19 < oldlaptop> You might find the PowerVR iGPUs in some Atom machines don't work. (I don't know if those tend to be the same ones with firmware broken in this particular way.) Machines with Atoms in them also tend to have things like unsupported SDIO-connected wifi, but we have no idea whether yours is one of them.
14:20 < oldlaptop> This is all, of course, a long-winded way of saying "boot it and find out".
14:22 < soundmodel> well it says American Megatrends 5.008 UEFI 2.3; PI 1.2
14:22 < soundmodel> I am also slightly debating between FreeBSD and OpenBSD because they said OpenBSD would have tier 1 for i386 still
14:23 -!- edthix [~Thunderbi@183.171.120.222] has quit [Quit: edthix]
14:25 < soundmodel> this one seems to have the PowerVR G6230.
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14:37 < soundmodel> the PowerVR might not be a problem, because I found this https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/intel-3600-powervr.38791/ that talks about VESA drivers in 2014
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14:37 < soundmodel> which should not be a problem for most tablets and headless computers of such type
14:39 < soundmodel> except if it meant that the max res. is still 1024x768, while wikipedia said: Industry standard 16-bit and 24-bit graphics modes for resolutions from 320×200 up to 1600×1200.
14:40 < oldlaptop> You may or may not find that VESA performs acceptably for what you want to do. (It's hard for us to guess, we don't know what you want to do.) efifb(4) might perhaps be a bit less bad.
14:40 < soundmodel> still not a problem for home server use
14:40 < oldlaptop> Either way, there's one really good way to find out.
14:40 < soundmodel> might be a problem for media server use
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14:41 < soundmodel> well if it's for a home server then I'm more concerned about the OS booting
14:41 < soundmodel> than whether the display output is nice
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14:42 < soundmodel> because it could also be run without a desktop environment
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14:42 < soundmodel> but I am failing to find any official recommendation as to what BSD to install on such
14:42 < oldlaptop> (This is, of course, the first time you have mentioned a "home server".)
14:42 < soundmodel> well but someone's mileage may vary
14:42 < soundmodel> it's originally a media server
14:43 < thrig> do we even have officials?
14:43 < soundmodel> but there's a guarantee that these will work fine on "commodity" i386
14:43 < oldlaptop> If you're planning to run the thing headless, most of the usual issues with atom junk won't really apply
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14:43 < soundmodel> the question is about whether these SoC computers fall under such
14:43 < oldlaptop> So: "boot it and find out".
14:43 < soundmodel> but what's the best version to start with
14:43 -!- SiFuh_ [~SiFuh@user/sifuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:43 < oldlaptop> There is no guarantee that Grandma's box from Best Buy will work either.
14:43 < soundmodel> the latest supported one for i386?
14:44 < oldlaptop> There's too large a variety of them that are broken in too many ways.
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14:44 < oldlaptop> I would expect amd64 to run; if it does, it's pretty much categorically preferable.
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14:44 < soundmodel> but it should not
14:45 < soundmodel> because these computers have 32-bit UEFI
14:45 < soundmodel> therefore i386 should be more likely to work without doing anything
14:46 < soundmodel> these also have only 2GB of RAM
14:46 < oldlaptop> You are incorrect.
14:46 < oldlaptop> The 32-bit UEFI thing "should" only pertain to the bootloader and so on.
14:46 < soundmodel> yes but the consensus on Linuxes was
14:46 < soundmodel> that i386 versions will work, see e.g. https://askubuntu.com/questions/1417698/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-a-pc-with-a-32-bit-uefi
14:46 < oldlaptop> In any case, it's easy enough to... boot it and find out.
14:47 < tommyrot> do what you want we don't care
14:47 < oldlaptop> askubuntu.com is not the best source of information about openbsd
14:47 < soundmodel> "but the UEFI refuses to boot any 64-bit .efi file."
14:47 < soundmodel> no but it's for reference
14:47 < soundmodel> about 32-bit UEFI boards
14:48 < oldlaptop> And for a question about whether single quotes or double quotes are more appropriate in this particular shell command, it'd be an okay-ish reference.
14:48 < oldlaptop> For the openbsd boot process, it's about as useful as the service manual for my van.
14:49 < soundmodel> I thought I'd be looking at some version that bundles a 32-bit .efi
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14:50 < soundmodel> here https://www.reddit.com/r/BSD/comments/nj5i24/comment/gz5z0ji/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 it says
14:50 < soundmodel> that some version of OpenBSD should have "a 32-bit EFI bootloader is provided that is able boot amd64 kernels"
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14:50 < soundmodel> but I wonder what version that's now
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14:51 < oldlaptop> Even this random person on the Internet (correctly) doesn't say you need some "special" version.
14:51 < oldlaptop> http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.3/amd64/ See those two files at the top?
14:51 < oldlaptop> One of them is the ia32 bootloader, and one of them is the amd64 bootloader.
14:51 < soundmodel> okay cool
14:51 < soundmodel> so I will try that then
14:52 < soundmodel> yes but there could've been differences in availability of drivers
14:52 < soundmodel> or something
14:52 < soundmodel> esp. w.r.t. to other BSDs
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14:52 < soundmodel> my general seeking was about understand what BSD is most geared towards such hardware
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14:53 < oldlaptop> That would be why the second thing (after "boot it and find out") you heard was about what driver support problems you're most likely to run into on such hardware. (They don't happen to have anything to do with whether the EFI is broken in this particular way.)
14:53 < soundmodel> and I thought it was OpenBSD, because FreeBSD implied that they're focusing less on niche platforms
14:53 < soundmodel> or niche hardware
14:53 < soundmodel> yes but that could motivate development then
14:53 < soundmodel> I think these boxes are very useful for home server use
14:54 < soundmodel> but they need BSD for that
14:54 < oldlaptop> Totally. I mean, who wants to use ip(8) or ipfilter?
14:55 < thrig> or maybe nftables has documentation now?
14:55 < soundmodel> okay I am going to try with 7.3
14:55 < soundmodel> some day
14:56 < soundmodel> but that Reddit post also said
14:56 < soundmodel> "Remember to use the USB install69.img media and not the .iso."
14:56 < soundmodel> so I wonder if this applies
14:57 < oldlaptop> It shouldn't matter for whether it works properly with ia32-efi-on-amd64 or not.
14:57 < soundmodel> well but why the recommendation then
14:57 < oldlaptop> It would, however, matter for whether it will boot after having been dd-ed to a USB stick.
14:58 < soundmodel> well yes sure
14:58 < oldlaptop> (The .iso is intended to be written to an optical disk, and therefore will not work after being dd-ed to a USB stick. It is likely your random Reddit person was thinking of that. Your random askubuntu people would almost certainly assume they could write the .iso to a USB stick and expect it to work.)
14:59 < soundmodel> but I've made Linux USBs with .iso
14:59 < oldlaptop> That's because they prepare their .iso files a bit differently.
14:59 < Bradipo> Doesn't mean OpenBSD works.
14:59 < soundmodel> okay
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15:00 < oldlaptop> (That's said to cause some problems, though I can't say I've ever known it to.)
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15:02 < soundmodel> at https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html it also says
15:02 < soundmodel> "Verify compatibility with your hardware. You may want to consult the platform-specific installation notes, especially if you're using one of the non-x86 CPU architectures. They contain detailed instructions and any possible caveats: "
15:02 < soundmodel> but I see nothing w.r.t. to these boxes
15:03 < oldlaptop> The "platform-specific installation notes" are the INSTALL files the hyperlinks under that bullet point point to.
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15:03 < oldlaptop> For amd64, that would be https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.3/amd64/INSTALL.amd64.
15:03 < soundmodel> okay yes but there was the question between i386 or amd64
15:03 < oldlaptop> You're not using "one of the non-x86 CPU architectures".
15:04 < byteskeptical> is samba the only package that provides an smbclient?
15:04 < soundmodel> and I would've picked i386 based on what I read elsewhere
15:04 < soundmodel> only to notice that BSD is different
15:04 < Bradipo> I thought there was another one...
15:04 < soundmodel> since it bundles a 32-bit EFI in amd64 version
15:04 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: me too but I can't seem to find it
15:05 < Bradipo> Did it have the word "light" in it?
15:05 < oldlaptop> (One side thing: the last version of "BSD", without qualification, as some unitary thing, was released in the mid-1990s. OpenBSD is not "BSD", and it's not necessarily safe to assume that other operating systems with "BSD" in their names will behave the same way in this or any other respect.)
15:05 < Bradipo> Or maybe "lite"
15:07 < Bradipo> byteskeptical: sharity-light?
15:08 < soundmodel> yes but again I still think the choice between amd64 or i386
15:08 < soundmodel> is unintuitive
15:08 < soundmodel> given the details on the page
15:08 < soundmodel> and this hardware
15:09 < oldlaptop> We've done what we can to make that clearer for you. In any event, it's not hard to boot it and find out.
15:10 < soundmodel> someone could've pondered ARM even
15:10 < soundmodel> because this hardware ships with Android
15:12 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: I think that was it though it seems deprecated
15:12 < oldlaptop> It's unfortunately not really going to be practical for openbsd documentation to enumerate every weird android set-top box or whatever and whether they're i386, amd64, or arm
15:12 < soundmodel> no but I can maybe add my hardware there
15:13 < soundmodel> also this hardware is in many closely related forms
15:13 < soundmodel> there are tablets that have the same atom
15:13 < soundmodel> Atom*
15:13 < soundmodel> there are newer Atoms that might work with the same version
15:13 < soundmodel> so on ...
15:14 < soundmodel> currently I find no information of Intel Atom and Open BSD
15:14 < soundmodel> except for those random Reddit posts
15:14 < oldlaptop> You find no particular information for Intel Pentium and OpenBSD, or AMD Phenom and OpenBSD, or Cyrix MII and OpenBSD, either
15:15 < oldlaptop> instead the documentation treats all this insane variety of i386/amd64 stuff as reasonably and briefly as it can
15:16 < soundmodel> and the board is not here https://bsd-hardware.info/
15:17 < soundmodel> are some of those of the same type as these ia-32 on amd64 boards?
15:17 < oldlaptop> Presumably the only way it gets there is for someone to boot it and find out.
15:18 < thrig> no no, I think we can talk through this one
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15:18 < oldlaptop> (Judging from their list of results, this site is overwhelmingly used by freebsd people - pfsense and opnsense being freebsd)
15:19 < soundmodel> there are some mentions of openbsd
15:19 < soundmodel> but they were 6.0
15:19 < soundmodel> so possibly quite old
15:20 < oldlaptop> As a general rule, if the FooCorp IntelZoot 2000 worked with OpenBSD 6.0, it's going to work with later versions too.
15:20 < soundmodel> well or it also says: 565 tested computers
15:20 < soundmodel> but my board is not there
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15:20 < soundmodel> and nor can I find anything close to it
15:22 < soundmodel> here it also suggests
15:22 < soundmodel> https://bsd-hardware.info/?probe=614326a3d3
15:22 < soundmodel> that e.g. this is arch i386
15:22 < oldlaptop> (The main reasons a machine might quit working with newer releases of OpenBSD are not going to be pertinent here. An arch might get removed outright - maybe that will happen to i386 someday, but not today - or a driver might get tedued for being ancient and unmaintained. The only things I recall that happening to lately were certain user-mode drivers for obscure '90s GPUs.)
15:22 < soundmodel> which may sound confusing w.r.t. to another Atom board
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15:23 < thrig> linux also eventually tosses old drivers, and then I had to tell folks that their systems purchased in 2004 would no longer be supported (that was in 2018 or so)
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15:24 < soundmodel> well, OTOH, the Intel Atom Z3735F is very much newer
15:24 < soundmodel> than that Atom
15:24 < oldlaptop> (Wow, it's not exactly useful to the rest of the world to complain that this user's particular crappy HDD happens to be reporting SMART errors.)
15:25 < oldlaptop> it treats the (super-old) intel iGPU weirdly too, wonder what's up with that
15:27 < oldlaptop> It shows up in dmesg twice, though, so fair enough I guess.
15:27 < soundmodel> yes and I do understand based on FreeBSD
15:27 < soundmodel> that boot and find out is up next
15:27 < soundmodel> but I wanted to understand first that I would not pick the wrong installation media
15:28 < soundmodel> or the wrong version to start with
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15:35 < soundmodel> since this computer is not a "commodity PC"
15:35 < avemestr> soundmodel: Your board might be a this site: https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi
15:36 < avemestr> soundmodel: If "home server" implies "media server with Plex" be aware that Plex doesn't support OpenBSD but only FreeBSD (and a bunch of linuxes).
15:37 < soundmodel> no there's no mention of Intel Baytrail Z3735F
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15:38 < avemestr> It's also the first time you mention that in this chat.
15:38 < soundmodel> yes but this is just my computer
15:38 < soundmodel> there are other boards
15:38 < soundmodel> that might perform similarly
15:39 < soundmodel> Intel Atom Z8350 is another popular one
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15:40 < avemestr> Seems http://www.openbsd.org/59.html added support for Bay Trail and Broadwell graphics.
15:40 < soundmodel> it's still surprising because Bay Trail seemed a totally ignored platform for Linuxes
15:41 < soundmodel> or something that was added later on on some distros
15:41 < thrig> or, folks working in their spare time produces random outcomes
15:42 < avemestr> https://www.openbsd.org/60.html added a driver for the Bay Trail GPIO controller and SD card slot on Bay Trail SoCs...
15:42 < avemestr> Sooo... boot it and find out?
15:43 < soundmodel> it's not a problem if the support is incomplete
15:43 < thrig> crazy talk!
15:43 < soundmodel> but it's a problem if there's no mention to either direction
15:43 < soundmodel> about what version will work at all
15:44 < soundmodel> because some people might brick their computer
15:44 < soundmodel> if they attempt something without knowledge
15:44 < soundmodel> it's not easy to recover these machines
15:45 < avemestr> Okay: Don't try it. It won't work. Happy?
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15:48 < thrig> another satisfied customer
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15:58 < eea> i think i just got it... the bsd license says i can take a stellar rtos like openbsd and *make* it do stuff it does not currently do
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16:01 < oldlaptop> You could even make an rtos out of it.
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16:01 < Bradipo> Well, more importantly, you can keep those stuffs that you make it to do yourself and sell it to others if you want.
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16:02 < thrig> people do that for the GPL as well
16:02 < Bradipo> Maybe the former.
16:02 < soundmodel> avemestr: It takes less time to research and gauge the probability of working
16:02 < soundmodel> than the time on fixing something that's broken
16:03 < soundmodel> with no official recovery support, losing the original configuration can be non-recoverable
16:03 < soundmodel> someone could therefore suggest only LiveUSBs
16:03 < soundmodel> for such computers
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16:06 < soundmodel> this one cost €15
16:06 < soundmodel> so it's probably not bad even if it fried
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16:08 < soundmodel> I think I once bricked a Mac Mini that took weeks to fix
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16:10 < eea> i want to shoehorn ooenbsd into a dominant hpc solution
16:11 < thrig> high performance concrete... just drop it in before it sets?
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16:58 < ssm_> I'm trying to configure my email server to use dovecot; I can recieve mail through imap fine, but when I try to send mail I get result="530 5.5.1 Invalid command: Must issue a STARTTLS command first" when sending from thunderbird. ssh'ing into my mail server and sending mail with mail(1) works fine, but trying to do it with imap results in this
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16:59 < Bradipo> Apparently you've configured your SMTP server to require STARTTLS first.
17:00 < Bradipo> So either disable that, or instruct Thunderbird to use STARTTLS.
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17:00 < Bradipo> Sending with mail(1) probably doesn't even do SMTP, just uses whatever is defined for sendmail in /etc/mailer.conf
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17:01 < eea> plus, smtpd doesn't to imap afaik
17:01 < eea> s/to/do
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17:02 < Bradipo> Right, but IMAP isn't really relevant for *sending* email.
17:02 < eea> also that
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17:02 < thrig> doing LOGIN or PLAIN AUTH over not-STARTTLS is dubious
17:04 < Bradipo> Depends on the network.  Maybe there's a VPN.  Maybe instead of disabling STARTTLS, don't require it for specific ranges of client IPs where encryption is provided in another means.
17:04 < Error> hiya im having issue with httpd. it cannot load gif or png files
17:04 < thrig> (I do open relay over the wireguard interface, but that's smtpd talking to smtpd)
17:04 < Bradipo> e.g. it's often not necessary to require STARTTLS on lo(4) connected clients.
17:04 < Error> i also have tried the type {...} in httpd.conf
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17:05 < Error> but no luck yet!
17:05 < avemestr> It's "types" with an s.
17:06 < avemestr> And you can get a lot with: include "/usr/share/misc/mime.types"
17:06 < Error> yeah yeah
17:06 < Error> typo
17:07 < Error> this is what i have added 
17:07 < Error> types { include "/usr/share/misc/mime.types" }
17:07 < Error> but no luck at all
17:07 < Bradipo> Email is a quagmire anyway.  People think that enabling TLS makes it "secure".
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17:07 < thrig> Email Hates the Living
17:08 < Bradipo> All it does is make it "wire secure" between your SMTP client and the receiving party, but that doesn't make it "private".
17:08 < Bradipo> s/party/relay/
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17:59 < apotheon> Bradipo: It secures authentication for your mail server, and secures content against skimming data on public wifi.
17:59 < apotheon> . . . which is only a tiny part of the whole journey of an email, of course.
18:00 < apotheon> I guess you already know that, though.
18:01 < Bradipo> Yeah, that much is obvious.  But a fair point.
18:01 < apotheon> I pretty much just think of it as authentication protection, and that's it.
18:01 < Bradipo> If I ever use "public" wifi, I most certainly won't send out anything except over SSH or some other VPN.
18:02 < Bradipo> So TLS on SMTP is mostly irrelevant in this case.
18:02 < apotheon> If I want to keep the contents private, I'll encrypt the message.  If that's not feasible for some reason, or I want to keep the metadata private, I'll use something other than email.
18:02 < Bradipo> But for most, it may be the only thing securing the wire.
18:02 < Bradipo> I'm pretty disappointed that end-to-end encryption for most people is still out of reach.
18:03 < Bradipo> Sorry, end-to-end encryption in email.  Protonmail is alright if you want to live within the Proton universe.
18:03 < thrig> gasp! that there is for criminals!
18:03 < apotheon> I basically don't even use email for anything that isn't some hidebound BS like getting order confirmation from an online retailer.
18:03 < Bradipo> That's right, only criminals need privacy. :-)
18:04 < apotheon> Yeah, you shouldn't need privacy.  Now post photos of your anus on Facebook.
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18:22 < jkc> Facebook is already full of assholes.
18:23 < apotheon> Yeah, nobody would notice, but it's still not the kind of thing people are likely to want to do unless they're specifically into that kind of thing.
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19:06 < Filystyn> hello
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19:32 < Filystyn> Can i run somethign different than sndiod on openbsd 
19:33 < Filystyn> or there are no alternatives?
19:34 < thrig> you are free to write or port your own audio system
19:34 < apotheon> I don't know the answer to your question, other than "if you write code to make it work you can use something else".
19:34 < apotheon> . . . but I'm curious: Why?
19:36 < Filystyn> I wanted to test/compare  somethign simply. well nvm ;-)
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19:57 < apotheon> Filystyn: For all I know, it might be easy to swap something else in, but I'm guessing not, and thrig likely knows more about it than me.
19:57 < apotheon> . . . so what thrig says seems like it's probably the answer.
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19:58 < oldlaptop> Filystyn: The interface that libsndio uses to communicate with the audio hardware is, AIUI, now treated as private to libsndio, not a stable application interface. Given also the fact that the devices themselves now require elevated privleges to access, there really isn't any other reasonable option, not one that exists already anyway.
19:58 < oldlaptop> https://openports.pl/path/audio/pulseaudio for example is just another sndio client.
19:58 -!- BotSrv is now known as Candlestick
19:58 < apotheon> Yeah, that's kinda what I expected.
19:59 < oldlaptop> (and for that reason isn't useful for much other than compatibility itself)
20:00 < oldlaptop> If you were to write your *own* sound server (why?), the only really supported interface for it to use would *be* libsndio
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20:01 < oldlaptop> and if you don't want it to be a sound server on top of a sound server (sndiod), you'd have to arrange for it to run in a similar system-wide privdrop sort of way to sndiod
20:04 < Filystyn> nah lets not get too deep into this. Thx for good answers
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20:26 < brocashelm> well, i don't want any pulseaudio or jack on my system, but removing either of them will take down a lot of my multimedia stuff like mpv and cmus, plus system stuff like xfce4-notifyd and kde software
20:26 < brocashelm> i don't mind keeping just the lib files, but absolutely no chance at all of their "daemons" existing. sndio should be the only one
20:27 < thrig> I don't know jack
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20:39 < ssm_> I think thunderbird might be bugged, I've been reading several guides on setting up imap and smtpd, and unless I'm missing something (totally possible) starttls auth should be working
20:40 < ssm_> decided to try out kmail and currently it's busy pulling in half of the ports collection
20:41 < fro> ok
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20:48 < brocashelm> claws-mail is pretty good
20:48 < brocashelm> thunderbird is a cve nightmare
20:53 < mischief> ssm_: can check https://intodns.com/, pretty comprehensive checking for mail servers
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21:05 < ssm_> I got it to work with claws-mail! had to change my smtp port to 587
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21:05 < ssm_> defaults to 25, hidden away in advanced
21:07 < ssm_> maybe that was the problem in thunderbird too
21:08 < ssm_> brocashelm: does the To: field also remain blank for you when typing in it?
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21:15 < ssm_> oh I just needed to pull down on the To: field and now it displays
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--- Log closed Fri Jul 07 00:00:51 2023