--- Log opened Sun Jul 09 00:00:42 2023
--- Day changed Sun Jul 09 2023
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07:46 < mavavilj> do I get any visible benefits for donations?
07:47 < avemestr> A warm fuzzy feeling.
07:47 < mavavilj> considering it, because I find the project much more useful than any Linux I saw in the past
07:48 < avemestr> There's also hosts like openbsd.amsterdam, that donates some of their revenue to the OpenBSD Foundation continously.
07:50 < avemestr> http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/activities.html < what money is spent on.
07:51 < mavavilj> is the number of donators somewhere?
07:51 < mavavilj> it just says ~$300k
07:51 < mavavilj> but I wonder how many people paid it
07:52 < avemestr> http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/contributors.html
07:52 < mavavilj> seems to list only companies
07:52 < avemestr> No amount of donors, but consistently more than $100000 by smaller donors in total.
07:52 < mavavilj> or possibly large individual donors
07:53 < mavavilj> it's also surprising to see those big corp donations
07:53 < mavavilj> even when up to this point I was certain that MS or Google would have something in-house instead
07:54 < mavavilj> or well, since it's BSD licensed, then maybe they have
07:55 < avemestr> The contributions by e.g. Google and Microsoft is "peanuts" compared to how much they contribute to Linux development.
07:55 < mavavilj> I wonder how much they put on some Linux project in comparison
07:55 < mavavilj> okay
07:55 < mavavilj> but that's surprising, because Linux should be less useful for them except as a platform target
07:55 < mavavilj> because they cannot lift the GPL code
07:57 < mavavilj> I thought BSDs would offer better prospects for corporate funding
07:57 < mavavilj> because corporations get tangible benefit
07:57 < mavavilj> since they can leverage all open contributions to their own closed source
07:59 < mavavilj> I would have liked though if I could decide where my specific money gets allocated
07:59 < mavavilj> because I don't want to fund hackathons as much I want to fund time spent on the project itself
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08:02 < avemestr> Then don't donate.
08:02 < mavavilj> I will, but I want to specify where it can be allocated
08:03 < avemestr> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/leadership < click "Board of Directors" if you want to see who sets the course for the Linux Foundation.
08:03 < mavavilj> and I think it's reasonable
08:03 < quinq> Why would they want to lift the GPL?
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08:03 < mavavilj> for the reason they want to lift BSD
08:03 < quinq> They don't sell software, they sell advertisement
08:03 < avemestr> So, you want to donate $1000 and think you can direct developer resources in the project?
08:03 < mavavilj> I think there was a history for OpenBSD or something
08:03 < mavavilj> where corporations do take the code
08:03 < mavavilj> and then package it as their own
08:04 < mavavilj> which is allowed by the license, but which indicates that corporations are eager to do so
08:04 < mavavilj> and which the GPL specifically prohibits
08:04 < quinq> Yeah, that happens every day
08:04 < quinq> “just sue me”
08:05 < mavavilj> I just thought that GPLed code is generally unappealing to commercial users
08:05 < avemestr> I'm pretty sure you can pay a standard hourly consultancy fee to some of the openbsd developers if you want them to work on something specific. OTOH, if you "donate" something, it is a given that you do not get a say in how the money is spent.
08:05 < quinq> And that's pretty reassuring
08:05 < mavavilj> it shouldn't require much effort to add some division to the pool
08:06 < mavavilj> e.g. divide it to "development use", "non-development use"
08:06 < brocashelm> there are certain software that you can install on linux that use bsd/mit licenses, like runit, openrc, ssh, i3, zstd, nginx, opus, vorbis, etc.
08:06 < mavavilj> so people who only want to support development can donate to the other pool
08:06 < avemestr> mavavilj: So, what do you think happens on hackatons?
08:06 < mavavilj> and don't have to fund someone's energy drinks
08:06 < quinq> It's a project
08:06 < quinq> It's a whole
08:06 < quinq> You can't develop without non-development
08:06 < quinq> People are not robots
08:07 < mavavilj> yes but I don't want to fund energy drinks
08:07 < avemestr> mavavilj: Again: You have a lot of opinions about how other people should do work, yet contribute... nothing? 
08:07 < mavavilj> I came to this project three days ago
08:07 < quinq> Then get into politics and ban them
08:07 < brocashelm> when it comes to licensing and corporations using software as their own, it is more apparent that freebsd is a much larger target of the three main *BSD operating systems
08:09 < brocashelm> didn't seem like gpl/lgpl could prevent microsoft from "getting involved" with the fsf and turning gnu/linux further away from unix philosophy and more into a corporate-controlled os/kernel
08:09 < avemestr> mavavilj: It this also how you acts in real life? You should up at a new workplace and within 3 days you tell everybody how you think they're doing it wrong? You show up at a local sports club and within 3 days you tell everybody they're doing it wrong?
08:10 < mavavilj> does it list the allocations of donations somewhere
08:10 < mavavilj> except just by name
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08:12 < brocashelm> i donated last week, but the 2023 thermometer hasn't updated
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08:20 < mavavilj> when I donate to some other orgs then sometimes they do provide an option to decide on the allocation
08:20 < mavavilj> so perhaps it could be worked in
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08:49 < Filystyn> Is there even need for better PRNG generators ?
08:50 < rsadowski> Could someone with IBT cpu support (dmesg|rg IBT) install konqueror (from packages or port) on -current and can confirm it still works?
08:51 < rsadowski> s/rg/grep/
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10:47 < Filystyn> https://www.reddit.com/r/openbsd/comments/14rjjvl/current_softdep_disabled/  what is softdeps ?
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11:06 < avemestr> Filystyn: man mount
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11:13 < avemestr> Btw a change committed at a hackathon where the only drink energy drinks!
11:13 < avemestr> *the=they
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11:15 < avemestr> I think it'll have great impact down the line when the removal enables other developments in the (virtual) file system layer.
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11:46 < Filystyn> soft
11:47 < Filystyn> haha ok i got it thx for help
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11:53 < avemestr> Filystyn: Not sure if you're joking :-) Nevertheless, the man page for mount explains it somewhat: https://man.openbsd.org/mount#softdep
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12:12 < Filystyn> yes i saw
12:12 < Filystyn> no jokes
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13:30 < Xeroine> `df -i` shows two columns for used inodes "Used" and "iused", there's also "Avail" and "ifree". They sound similar to each other and I couldn't find anything about what difference there is between them in the man page. The values are different too. Can someone explain?
13:30 < IcePic> used is space, iused is inodes-used
13:30 < IcePic> avail is space, and ifree is free-inodes
13:31 < Xeroine> IcePic: So "Used" and "Avail" that's in bytes?
13:31 < IcePic> I think it is in 512-bytes blocks
13:31 < Xeroine> ah okay, thanks
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13:31 < IcePic> df -hi for "human readable" values
13:32 < Xeroine> oh right
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13:33 < IcePic> df -ki for kilobytes, but I guess most people are fine with -hi 
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13:34 < Xeroine> I guess the Used depends on newfs -i option that was used, right?
13:35 < Xeroine> only I don't know what was meant by "fragments" in the man page for newfs at that option
13:35 < IcePic> Xeroine: yes, and if you didn't use an option to newfs, some default based on size got chosen for you
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13:37 < Xeroine> I think "fragments" there might mean sectors
13:37 < IcePic> I guess from the newfs manpage that a fragment is a slightly-larger-than-sectorsize "chunk" used to hold data, and the -i chooses a number of inodes per frag (or frags per inode)
13:37 < IcePic> in the bad old days, sectors were almost exclusively 512b, and only later did 2048b and larger sectors appear
13:38 < Xeroine> yeah, thanks =)
13:39 < IcePic> 12 years ago this was committed to newfs => newfs creates one inode per 4 fragments, rather than one per 8KB,
13:39 < IcePic> this lets it adapt to large filesystems (disklabel -E automatically increases
13:39 < IcePic> fragment and block size for these).
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13:40 < Xeroine> ah cool
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17:01 < GnarledHorn> I've got an old Panasonic Toughbook heading to me (eBay purchase). Joshua Stein's "OpenBSD on Laptops" series (https://jcs.org/openbsd-laptops) inspired me to try it out
17:02 < GnarledHorn> I was thinking it would be cool stylistically to have a tough os on a tough laptop :)
17:03 < GnarledHorn> the laptop is missing the 's' key and has no harddrive, so I have some initial work to do before I can report back. 
17:05 < quinq> Like plugging in a storage media and an usb keyboard
17:06 < GnarledHorn> I'm not sure if the toughbook form factor requires a special caddy that I'll need to hunt down, and using an external keyboard with a laptop is annoying
17:11 < oldlaptop> It's pretty typical for laptops to have special HDD caddies; a machine ordered without the HDD may or may not have a caddy anyway
17:11 < tux0r> i'd totally carry my model f over any built-in laptop keyboard, honestly
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17:11 < oldlaptop> I'd expect one for a toughbook to be relatively elaborate (shock mounting and so on), at least if it's old enough that spinning HDDs were practical politics in a laptop
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17:23 < GnarledHorn> There's another toughbook on ebay that's listed as parts only for $20, so I can scavage key caps and maybe a harddrive caddy from it if I need to. 
17:24 < GnarledHorn> oldlaptop: You have a point re: spinning vs ssd though. I think it's from the SSD age, so maybe it'll use something commonplace :)
17:30 < Davus> Hope the Toughbook goes well; Looks like the CF-53 had SSD option, not sure which one you got
17:33 < GnarledHorn> it's a cf-31, apparently it had an SSD option as well. Also (from the product sheet) a GPS receiver. Neat!
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17:48 < jf> you may end up looking for a caddy + cable. something like this. I don't know if the cf-31 is different: https://www.ebay.com/itm/114712276321?hash=item1ab5626d61:g:oyQAAOSw2NVfcFUO
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17:54 < Davus> Looks like they have them for CF-31 around the same price, both new generics and used around similar range
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18:24 < GnarledHorn> hey that's great - thank you both
18:24 < GnarledHorn> that's like 1/4 the price I found elsewhere with some quick searching
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18:26 < GnarledHorn> free shipping too. Good find ^_^
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--- Log closed Mon Jul 10 00:00:42 2023