--- Log opened Wed Jul 12 00:00:58 2023
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14:53 < olk> hey, I'm installing OpenBSD on my laptop, wondering if default sizes of /usr/src and /usr/obj partitions will be enough for the OpenBSD src tree (3Gb and 6Gb respectively)?
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14:54 < oldlaptop> They should be, sure. (You may want to remove both outright if you don't actually plan to build your own releases, though.)
14:55 < olk> nah, I want to play with it a little
14:55 < njn> 2gb for src and upto 4gb for obj
14:55 < njn> if you build your own release, youll need 4 gb
14:55 < jcs> i make /usr/src 4G on my laptop to fit a full git clone, which is fatter than a cvs checkout
14:56 < olk> njn: you think that will be enough?
14:56 < olk> jcs: wow, never thought I'd talk to you! thanks for your blog posts about OpenBSD on laptops, I loved them!
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14:57  * oldlaptop certainly wouldn't vary *downwards* from the defaults except in the face of actual disk size pressure - which would more likely end up at "okay, this machine won't be building releases"
14:57 < thrig> deification in 3, 2, 
14:58 < jcs> olk: hello!
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14:59 < olk> oldlaptop: I think I'll leave the defaults then, as I just want to read the source a little
14:59 < njn> i tend to use 2gb as a default size for src whether i update the tree or not
14:59 < oldlaptop> I can see value in having /usr/src and *no* /usr/obj for that kind of thing
14:59 < njn> and 4gb for obj
15:00 < njn> usually ends up about 3.7gb
15:00 < njn> when i build a release ...
15:00 < oldlaptop> njn: That probably isn't likely to do *down* over time.
15:00 < oldlaptop> (Or to *go* down.)
15:01 < olk> hm, maybe I really should just give those 6 gigs to /usr
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15:01 < oldlaptop> Having a bigger /usr in itself isn't really useful
15:01 < njn> its really up to you how you set it all up
15:01 < njn> i make my /usr 2gb
15:01 < oldlaptop> if you want /usr/obj at all, you probably want it as a separate partition
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15:02 < olk> no, I don't plan to make an .img on a Core 2 Duo laptop
15:02 < olk> where should I put those 6 gigs, /home?
15:02 < njn> well, youll also need /dest and /usr/xobj
15:03 < olk> I mean, the whole disc is like 111 gigs
15:03 < oldlaptop> You might consider /usr/local too
15:03 < njn> yeah ...
15:03 < thrig> laptop maybe can get away with a smaller /var
15:04 < olk> oldlaptop: it's created by default, it's 16.2G on my machine, and /usr is 11.6
15:04 < oldlaptop> (If this is a ~120G spinning disk, maybe think about a cheap SSD, given how *cheap* they are now)
15:05 < olk> thrig: /var is 10.5 gigs
15:05 < olk> oldlaptop: it's a 120Gb ssd
15:05 < thrig> and my laptop is using 59.5M in /var (yours might be different)
15:06 < njn> mines 10megs atm
15:06 < olk> then why does installer give it 10 gigs?
15:06 < njn> /dev/sd1m      497M   10.8M    462M     3%    /var
15:07 < njn> i made mine 512 megs just to be on the safe side ... im not running anything crazy
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15:07 < oldlaptop> /var is pretty important for some machines
15:08 < thrig> servers, firewalls with too many logs, that sort of thing
15:08 < oldlaptop> might be important for a laptop too, if you want to run (say) a local database server for development work
15:08 < oldlaptop> (or for kdepim from ports/packages for that matter)
15:08 < njn> webserver ...
15:08 < olk> how do I print size in Mb/Gb in installer's partition editor?
15:08 < njn> p m
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15:09 < oldlaptop> You should see that in the usage help message in disklabel (the "installer's partition editor" is just disklabel(8))
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15:09 < olk> thanks, guys
15:10 < oldlaptop> in any case it's certainly documented *in* that manual: https://man.openbsd.org/disklabel.8#p~2
15:10 < olk> why do you do *this*?
15:10 < oldlaptop> also covers the precise algorithm used for the defaults, incidentally
15:10 < oldlaptop> olk: Emphasis, think boldface or something
15:11 < oldlaptop> one might also see /italics/
15:11 < oldlaptop> I guess there's always mIRC codes, but eew.
15:11 < thrig> not with xterm. maybe some other terminal
15:11 < olk> my client doesn't show bold texts, it shows asterisks
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15:12 < njn> read and learn, youll love openbsd more and more every day ;)
15:12 < olk> I think that's just my problem
15:12 < olk> njn: yeah, I think I will
15:12 < oldlaptop> The only client software I've seen try to interpret *emphasis* or /emphasis/ (except markdown renderers or something) is not even an IRC client. (thunderbird/seamonkey will render them in plaintext mail bodies)
15:13 < thrig> (irssi bolds *bold*)
15:13 < thrig> and probably _this too_
15:13 < thrig> or maybe _this_ ?
15:13 < njn> *bold*
15:14 < njn> huh! see. learn something new every day haha
15:14 < thrig> probably this all dates to usenet or who knows
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15:22 < Bradipo> exmh makes *bold* bold.
15:22 < olk> polari doesn't
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15:25 < thrig> not the mutt pager as I've configured it
15:26 < thrig> whoops patch time
15:27 < njn> i guess same here ;)
15:28 < thrig> go go microvirt! relink that kernel!!
15:31 < njn> glad you said something, i prob wouldnt have noticed till later
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15:48 < njn> i need a faster laptop ...
15:49 < njn> or be lazier and use syspatch
15:50 < thrig> how much faster? it's already moving at something like 107,000 km/h
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15:55 < olk> weird, whatever I do to resize /home, disklabel says Amount too big
15:55 < olk> I tried with c k and R k
15:56 < olk> tried 100&, +100&, +[free sectors] and [previous + free sectors] in R k
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15:59 < olk> just tried all this in c k
15:59 < olk> still have free 11 gigs
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16:05 < olk> maybe I'm missing something? how do I add all free space to latest partition?
16:05 < byteskeptical> olk: are you trying this on a mounted filesystem?
16:05 < olk> I don't think so, I'm in the installer
16:06 < olk> every other partition resizes fine
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16:08 < olk> I also tried * and +* in R k
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16:10 < olk> alright, I had to do c k and enter *
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16:54 < njn> that took long enough, brb, rebooting
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18:11 < avemestr> em(4) supports I350-T2 and I350-T4 (explicitly mentioned in man), but do anyone know if I350-AM2 is supported as well?
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18:23 < avemestr> Seems nacelle answered me more than a year ago - at least AM4 works fine.
18:26 < olk> is anyone here sadistic enough to use gnome? I am experiencing a lot of graphical glitches and I don't know is it my gpu or the gnome port
18:27 < thrig> gnome? buggy? no...
18:27 < quinq> Impossible
18:27 < quinq> Especially that they're releasing new versions often
18:28 < olk> well, I'm on 43.3
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18:31 < njn> i prefer the gnome 2 forks better, but i use cwm
18:31 < thrig> "The CADT Model" was named with GNOME as an example
18:36 < oldlaptop> olk: I think you mean "masochistic"
18:37 < olk> yeah, sorry. english is not my native
18:37 < oldlaptop> What GPU and what kind of "glitches"?
18:37 < oldlaptop> ("what GPU" might best be answered with a dmesg)
18:37 < olk> it's RV515 (AMD X1400)
18:38 < olk> oldlaptop: I know what gpu I have without a dmesg :)
18:38  * oldlaptop would expect something that old to run pretty well
18:38 < oldlaptop> The dmesg might have other hints, though.
18:38 < avemestr> The masochist says "hit me, hit me" and the sadist says "no I won't".
18:38 < oldlaptop> as might Xorg.0.log
18:38 < olk> avemestr: xD
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18:39 < avemestr> olk: Did you follow the rather comprehensive pkg-readme after installing gnome?
18:40 < olk> will try to upload a screenshot of the glitches in a couple minutes
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18:40 < olk> avemestr: yeah, without reading it I couldn't ever run gnome
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18:42 < avemestr> Cool, good :-)
18:42 < quinq> 94
18:43 < olk> did you see the message? if not, I should change nickname on openbsd laptop
18:44 -!- olk_ is now known as olk_laptop
18:46 < olk> weird, I see the message on other laptop, but not on main
18:46 < olk> let me relogin
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18:48 < oldlaptop> olk_laptop: You probably need to authenticate with nickserv
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18:48 < oldlaptop> olk: I just told your friend olk_laptop he probably needs to authenticate with nickserv. (You probably would see that)
18:49 < oldlaptop> https://libera.chat/guides/channelmodes we're +R
18:49 < quinq> I've had SASL failures on Libera, and I admit it's a bit anonying looking into the server buffer to see a bunch of “Your message couldn't be sent to #openbsd” after a while
18:50 < olk> uh-huh. didn't know we're +R because my client doesn't show that
18:51 < olk> too long to make sasl work on a slow machine with graphical glitches, so I'll just type links manually
18:52 < oldlaptop> You shouldn't need SASL specifically, I don't think?
18:52 < olk> https://i.imgur.com/IDcvclX.png and https://i.imgur.com/qokPfRd.png
18:52 < olk> glitches like these
18:52 < quinq> Of course not, SASL is more a convenient way of identifying to NS
18:52 < olk> oldlaptop: too late :P  
18:53 < oldlaptop> Do any ordinary 3D things act up?
18:53 < oldlaptop> (glxgears might be too simple, but something like 0ad?)
18:54 < oldlaptop> I think it might be significant that the weird clipping in your first screenshot (gnome-terminal) isn't pure black, it's whatever the background color is in that spot
18:54 < olk> nope, glxgears run just fine. font is being eaten though, check first image
18:54 < oldlaptop> seems less likely (in that case) to be GPU driver stuff
18:55 < olk> weird, I heard radeon(4) is stable enough
18:55 < oldlaptop> I mean it seems unlikely a GPU driver issue would cause that first screenshot in particular
18:56 < oldlaptop> it'd be weird for a GPU driver artifact to still carefully render the correct background color
18:56 < olk> second one might seem more like gnome's fault, right>
18:56 < olk> *?
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18:56 < oldlaptop> I'm not sure what the second one is supposed to look like.
18:56 < oldlaptop> I assume "something" is supposed to be where the black bar is?
18:57 < olk> I should probably test some things in xorg.conf
18:57 < olk> oldlaptop: it's supposed to be without the black bar entirely. it appears when I scroll and there's nowhere to scroll to
18:58 < oldlaptop> That definitely sounds like application code or something.
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18:58 < oldlaptop> (Unless some weird 3D effect is supposed to be rendered? I don't do gnome.)
18:59 < olk> didn't see that in two months using this irc client
18:59 < olk> it also appears in gnome's control center
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18:59 < oldlaptop> Do things other than gnome-terminal do the weird font-clipping thing?
18:59 < oldlaptop> Things other than vte?
18:59 < oldlaptop> (vte being the embeddable terminal thingummy gnome-terminal is based on)
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19:00 < olk> yeah, font is being eaten on window titles, like glxgears' window title
19:00 < olk> oldlaptop: I know what vte is, you don't have explain most of the stuff you type unless someone asks about it
19:02 < oldlaptop> (I try to be careful about random goofy acronyms like that. Not everyone cares what gnome's embeddable terminal thingummy is.)
19:02 < olk> also, this is the effect which is supposed to be rendered instead of the black bar: https://i.imgur.com/s5frmcz.png
19:02 < oldlaptop> ah.
19:02 < olk> when you have nowhere left to scroll
19:03 < oldlaptop> I wonder if possibly there *is* some feature the GPU doesn't support or that's broken in the driver, or something
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19:03  * oldlaptop has had issues in the past with older radeon hardware not /actually/ supporting all of OpenGL 2.1 or whatever
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19:13 < olk> font is also being rendered wrong in gedit
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19:19 < oldlaptop> The next question would be if things still render wrong in, say, xfce (which would still provide the ability to enable/disable a compositing WM)
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19:29 < byteskeptical> noticed a sharp increase in zombie processes on current since #1279. Specifically when closing tmux windows using crtl d.
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19:43 < olk> does anyone know why X uses r300 driver for my r500 gpu?
19:45 < olk> glamor garbles display, and DRI3 made gdm give me an error "oh no, something haas gone wrong" with no clues in /var/log/gdm
19:48 < olk> I think I should go breathe some air, then return and try to fix it
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22:11 < olk> hey oldlaptop, those glitches just fixed themselves somehow. but now that they're gone, I realised I can't use gnome on a core 2 duo (at least not on openbsd), and I'd like to switch to cwm. can I delete *all gnome stuff* and leave just chromium? or is there a way to delete all packages and just install chromium again?
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22:12 < oldlaptop> you might be interested in https://man.openbsd.org/pkg_delete#a
22:12 < olk> past me would've just reinstalled the os, but now I know that's not the way you should do stuff
22:12 < oldlaptop> (after you remove whatever metapackage you manually installed)
22:13 < olk> can I just do pkg_delete -X chromium?
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22:13 < oldlaptop> If you're absolutely sure you don't want *any* other packages, sure
22:13 < oldlaptop> I can recommend https://openports.pl/path/meta/lxqt if you want something between gnome and cwm
22:13 < olk> got it, thanks. just had to read manpage
22:13 < oldlaptop> perhaps xfce?
22:14 < oldlaptop> (I run lxqt on a C2D, works well enough for me)
22:14 < oldlaptop> with an intel iGPU at that
22:15 < olk> nah, I don't like xfce. thanks for advising lxqt, it's a nice option and I used it on debian, but I like that cwm is in base, and that's the way I see myself using OpenBSD. it's like a stereotype, but only in my mind, don't know if you understand me
22:15 < oldlaptop> Incidentally: as nearly as I recall, "r500" is similar enough to r300 that it uses the same driver
22:16 < olk> oh, glad you saw the question
22:16 < oldlaptop> (I have one of these - which still /sort of/ works - that takes r300g. https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ATI_Mobility_FireGL_V5250)
22:16 < olk> it's still weird, there's no mention of r500 in Xorg.0.log, but r300 is all over the place
22:17 < oldlaptop> r600 was the next time there was a "time for a new driver" level of discontinuity
22:17 < olk> also, any idea why DRI3 and glamor didn't work?
22:17 < oldlaptop> Nope. :(
22:17 < oldlaptop> The closest thing I've run to that hardware always Just Worked, Right Out Of The Box (TM) modulo firmware
22:18 < oldlaptop> and the occasional opengl feature that mesa claimed to support on it, but which the hardware doesn't actually do
22:18 < olk> huh, thinkwiki. I don’t know if you guessed it already or not, but I do all this on the T60 with ATI graphics 
22:19 < oldlaptop> Ah. As far as I know, the "FireGL V5250" was substantially the same chip that went into the normal T60, just with more VRAM and clocked faster
22:19 < olk> sorry for slow typing. I'm on my phone, lying in bed
22:19 < oldlaptop> (The cooling system was totally inadequate - mine had a scorch mark on the thermal pad already when I got it. I assume that's why it only sort of works now.)
22:19 < olk> never had a firegl card
22:20 < oldlaptop> I don't believe there was much difference other than more RAM and different windows drivers
22:20 < byteskeptical> olk: anything in ~/.xsession-errors
22:21 < oldlaptop> So, no, I have no idea why your very similar hardware wouldn't work :(
22:21 < olk> oldlaptop: it's obvious there won't be enough cooling if the card is basically overclocked and cooling system is the same
22:21 < oldlaptop> IMO it was already inadequate for the base-model integrated-graphics Core Duo T60
22:21 < oldlaptop> I wound up with a T/W500 heatsink in mine
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22:21 < olk> it's probably gnome shenanigans if your r500 card also didn't work with DRI3 and glamor
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22:22 < oldlaptop> I honestly couldn't tell you that specifically - it worked just fine for me however X autoconfigured it
22:22 < olk> byteskeptical: thanks, I'll check it in the morning
22:22 < oldlaptop> (linux or openbsd, after the appropriate software support went in to openbsd)
22:23 < olk> well, gnome on debian worked a lot better for me
22:23 < oldlaptop> and I couldn't tell you for sure *now*, because the hardware's degraded (or I suspect as much)
22:24 < olk> I think you generate 90% of traffic in this room XD
22:24 < byteskeptical> yeah I was going too suggest trying 7.2
22:24 < byteskeptical> s/too/to/
22:25 < olk> well, gotta hope someone with r500 card on 7.3 tells me if DRI3 and glamor not working are my issue or not
22:25 < olk> why downgrade? isn't it logical to try -current, and not previous release?
22:25 < byteskeptical> well if it works on 7.2 then you can just upgrade your way to back to current
22:26 < olk> nah, I don't want to reinstall the os
22:26 < oldlaptop> byteskeptical: If it doesn't work on 7.3, but does work on 7.2, that would suggest it was broken by something before the 7.3 release, and is unlikely to have been fixed since.
22:26 < byteskeptical> olk: normally yes but in the case of driver deprecation it may work better the other way around
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22:27 < oldlaptop> (The driver isn't "deprecated" as far as I know, but it's not entirely ridiculous to wonder if there have been regressions. It's probably not the most thoroughly-tested hardware these days.)
22:27 < olk> I ran 7.1 once on this machine, but I don't remember trying out DRI3, as cwm worked perfectly then
22:28 < olk> oh btw, is my domain cloaked?
22:29 < byteskeptical> olk: is for me
22:29 < olk> then it is for everyone :)
22:29 < olk> thanks for checking 
22:30 < typicat> yup, ~olk@user/olk
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22:36 < olk> to conclude the radeon topic: I'll try DRI3 and glamor again in the morning (it's 1:35AM for me rn), check ~/.xsession-errors (if gdm used it) and will migrate to cwm, as I did year ago
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22:47 < olk> (sorry for leave-join spam) 
22:47 < olk> goodnight everyone
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23:58 < seninha> Hi, i'm running `echo foo | { cat & }` on ksh and it does not print "foo" after returning control to the prompt; it works on bash tho
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--- Log closed Thu Jul 13 00:00:50 2023