--- Log opened Tue Jul 18 00:00:06 2023
00:01 < Guestdoo> Hi OpenBSD - seek your advice about hyperthreading being disabled. With respect to AMD chips, say ryzen 5 or 7 series, is it still recommended to leave disabled? or is not really only a concern with Intel CPUs? thank you
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00:06 < tommyrot> the default is recommended
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00:17 < brocashelm> smt is disabled by default for security reasons; you can try enabling it and see if it's "worth it" or not (leave as is)
00:18 < Guestdoo> Yes, I was reading about it a while back and thought the vulnerabilities were more specific to Intel, but now I see this was rolled out for other vendors. I'll leave it disabled, probably won't see any performance issues anyway
00:19 < Guestdoo> thanks!
00:26 < thrig> maybe one of these years I'll find a use-case where smt actually helps
00:36 < Guestdoo> I wonder if programs like GIMP or Shotcut for video/image editing use it. or if creating or deflating big archives
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00:37 < pas> €/whois Guestdoo
00:37 < pas> oops
00:38  * pas crawls back into the darkness
00:42 < Guestdoo> I think I read somewhere that most programs will see a performance decrease if you've got more than two cores anyway
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00:57 < a1fa> never heard that one
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01:04 < thrig> certainly there will be a performance decrease with less than one core
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01:10 < Guestdoo> I said more than two cores you get a decrease, not less than one core
01:15 < polarian> So I have a /32 IPv4 and a /29 block of IPv4s, the /29 being a alias on the LAN interface and then also a local address (192.168.2.1/24) which is then NAT'd within pf, how does OpenBSD decide which address to use for connecting to the WAN
01:15 < polarian> will it use the /32 or the default gateway of the /29
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01:16 < polarian> when I do "curl ifconfig.me" the /32 is returned, but I believe this is due to the firewall as I have no rules allowing inbound or outbound traffic on the /29 block
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01:57 < pardis> there is no such thing as the default gateway of a particular subnet; a default gateway is per route table (hence the name "default")
01:57 < pardis> if those subnets are non-overlapping then it should use the default gateway, which you can see with 'route -n show'
01:58 < pardis> if they are overlapping then I'm not really sure how it picks the source address for the same gateway
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02:01 < sinvet> how's this rowhammer fingerprinting effect on OpenBSD ?
02:02 < thrig> routing tables may have a priority, but uh never seen overlapping subnets in practice...
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02:39 < jcs> https://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=commit;h=454a20c8756c9c1d55419153255fc7692b3d2199
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02:40 < oldlaptop> O_o
02:41 < oldlaptop> today in "about damn time"
02:41 < oldlaptop> or last month, I guess?
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02:43 < apotheon> egad
02:43 < apotheon> That's . . . slow.
02:44 < apotheon> It's slow like Microsoft-fixing-a-critical-bug levels of slow.
02:52 < thrig> OpenBSD 2.4 was pretty recent
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03:31 < pardis> wow, those functions are nearly half as old as Unix itself
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07:58 < gry> hello, i am using vmd, in the host the 'top -C' says a vm cpu column entry is around 80%; yet at the very top of the output it says there are 12 CPUs of which 20% are in use and 80% are idle. so why does it say '80%' next to one vm? is it 80% of what? of one cpu or what? does vmd allocate one cpu core per vm?
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10:09 < dennis> yes
10:09 < dennis> (:
10:15 < dennis> gry: if you do `vmctl show` you can se that there is one vcpu allocated to each vm
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10:17 < gry> dennis: this sounds good
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10:18 < gry> dennis: what is that 80% of?
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10:20 < gry> one vm in 'top - C' being 80% means it is using 80% of the 1 cpu it is allocated, correct?
10:20 < gry> correction, 'top -C' without the space
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10:33 < dennis> Yes :)
10:41 < dennis> At least very simply speaking. In reality top shows something like percentage of cpu-time for one cpu or something. A multithreaded process can therefore easily use more than 100% cpu (up to 100%*number of cores).
10:41 < dennis> you can throw in the `-H`-flag to show process threads
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11:33 < tercaL> Hi, I'm trying to set PostfixAdmin's Virtual Vacation/Auto-Reply module, and it needs "GetOpt::Std" as Perl module dependency. There were dependencies/modules that I luckily found in OpenBSD's pkgs, however this one seems missing: GetOpt::Std. 
11:33 < tercaL> The closest ones are; p5-Getopt-ArgvFile-1.11p0 - p5-Getopt-Euclid-0.4.5 - p5-Getopt-Long-Descriptive-0.110 - p5-Getopt-Simple-1.52p0 and p5-Getopt-Tabular-0.3p0. Can I use one of these, instead? Any clue?
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11:41 < xse> tercaL: is it not already there ? don't know perl but with a name like std and 52 references in src according to github "repo:openbsd/src Getopt::Std" it might be
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11:50 < pardis> yes, it's in base
11:51 < pardis> ways to tell this include perl -MGetopt::Std -e '', man Getopt::Std, pkglocate Getopt/Std.pm
11:53 < sibiria> perl -e 'use Getopt::Std 99999'
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11:54 < sibiria> (handy "trick" for combined version feedback)
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12:14 < tercaL> cool one, thanks sibiria and pardis
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12:34 < finkfox> how do I mount ffs to be writeable by a specific "user"? the mount point (e.g. /mnt/usb) is owned by that "user", but after mounting I still get permission denied when trying to write to it.
12:36 < finkfox> with something like mount_ntfs it is possible to set user/group of mount point
12:37 < tyfon> since this is a "native" filesystem you need to have it set on the filesystem itself (chown+chmod) afaik, I don't think you can force it via mount
12:42 < finkfox> tyfon: ok thanks
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15:13 < GnarledHorn> I picked up a print copy of Michael Lucas's book, OpenBSD Mastery Filesystems. Barely into chapter two and I've already learned a lot of cool filesystem facts
15:13 < GnarledHorn> I like how he goes into minutae but warns you if it's irrelevant first haha
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16:18 < hitest> I also like Lucas.  I like Absolute OpenBSD 2nd edition.
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16:39 < Rynn> Same, Absolute FreeBSD 3rd edition is great, I've been waiting for him to drop an update to Absolute OpenBSD before grabbing it as well.
16:41 < thrig> probably not good to drop absolut on openbsd
16:43 < GnarledHorn> for the homies
16:44 < GnarledHorn> Rynn: I'd love to grab that as well. Maybe we should send him some fan mail
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17:35 < orwell> Hi, is there a way to apply microcode updates for the processor from within OpenBSD?
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17:37 < sibiria> it's done during boot
17:37 < lts> https://man.openbsd.org/fw_update specifically
17:40 < orwell> fw_update -d <file> would be correct?
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17:40 < lts> No
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17:41 < lts> If you want to apply the microcode updates, just run "fw_update"
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17:41 < orwell> Yeah, but i want to apply a Microcode Update which isn't available from the default source.
17:42 < lts> I think that is outside of available tooling
17:43 < lts> Hmm, or maybe "fw_update <file>" 
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17:43 < lts> No, "fw_update -p <file>"
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17:43 < lts> Good luck
17:44 < orwell> ups, i meant -p
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17:44 < orwell> but after re-reading i don't think fw_update is what I'm looking for.
17:44 < sibiria> fw_update installs package files. it doesn't upload firmware to cpu/devices
17:44 < sibiria> the kernel does
17:44 < sibiria> (at boot)
17:45 < quinq> orwell, fw_update installs update, it doesn't apply them
17:45 < quinq> Yeah, I'm just paraphrasing sibiria, too late, sorry :)
17:45 < Zyxer> Hi
17:46 < orwell> so there is no way to apply a custom microcode update? Maybe i just boot linux and apply the microcode update.
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17:46 < sibiria> i don't know if the kernel does any verification of the files in /etc/firmware, but you might be able to get it to work by just dropping the ucode file in /etc/firmware/intel (amd not supported yet) and rebooting
17:46 < quinq> orwell, that's not how it works
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17:47 < quinq> You don't flash your cpu with a new microcode, you load it at startup
17:47 < orwell> ah
17:47 < orwell> ooops
17:48 < Zyxer> I installed openBSD on an old iMac G3, it worked no issue (well some bug but that's besides the point atm). However I have gotten an IDE to SATA adapter and at boot it errors out and then says somethine about Ultra-DMA mode set to [4-0] until it gets to PIO mode 3. It boots and starts fine until it gets the errors and then it takes forever to boot. 
17:49 < Zyxer> May be placebo but after it boots it feels less responsive as well, taking up to one second to just open vim 
17:49 < quinq> You're lucky, it crashes on G5 ^^
17:49 < quinq> Ah, I misread, maybe I'm actually encountering the same issue
17:50 < quinq> Do you actually get to some console prompt eventually?
17:50 < Zyxer> Yea well, the adapter may need some BIOS config or maybe there is some boot option in OpenBSD to fix this? Without adapter it is only slow, painfully so. With adapter it boots even slower 
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17:50 < quinq> How loong ~ to reach it?
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17:50 < quinq> -o
17:51 < Zyxer> Yes I do get to prompt eventually but I suspect a 20+ year old HDD should be slower than a new SSD
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17:52 < Zyxer> how I did the bincli thing? So I can send dmesg
17:54 < Zyxer> Also all I done so far is install vim, I SSH to my server with Weechat but no grafix and obvious issues with the interface, not sure how all symbols are read
17:55 < Zyxer> I tried to change the jumper to the other setting, then nothing booted, now I removed jumper altogether to test and it boots but I think the CD drive isn't connected. It booted somewhat faster now but that could have been a coincidence
17:56 < orwell> sibiria, so you mean replacing /etc/firmware/intel/06-9c-00 with the microcode file i have at hand?
17:56 < orwell> `cpu0: Intel(R) Celeron(R) N5105 @ 2.00GHz, 2893.74 MHz, 06-9c-00`
17:56 < orwell> What could happen in a worst case?
17:56 < quinq> How long ~ to reach it?
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17:57 < sibiria> orwell: you don't replace, you just put all of it there. all of what intel has released
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17:59 < Zyxer> quinq: How do I check how long it took to boot?
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17:59 < quinq> You can use a clock
17:59 < quinq> But also count in your head if you're able to evaluate time
18:00 < Zyxer> Ok I will poweroff, add the jumper, and then boot and time it. Brb
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18:01 < quinq> Well, you don't have to, I was just curious in case you already had an idea
18:01 < quinq> Like 1min, 5min, 10min, 30min, etc.
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18:02 < orwell> sibira, i assumed that on boot only the correct file for the cpu would be loaded. Since there is just one file called 06-9c-00 I thought i would have to replace it.
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18:03 < sibiria> orwell: i mean that you should keep the entire state of intel ucode in sync
18:03 < sibiria> instead of just replacing one or two files of their current set
18:03 < sibiria> but don't hesitate to test
18:03 < orwell> ok, is there a risk to brick something?
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18:04 < sibiria> i would be surprised if that happened. it does internal verifications before loading ucode as well
18:04 < sibiria> and ucode isn't permanent
18:05 < orwell> ok thx
18:07 < sibiria> i run N5105 as well. afaik the ucode for that is up-to-date
18:07 < sibiria> at least intel has not published anything newer on their github repo
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18:07 < Filystyn> I have seena lot of patches
18:10 < orwell> sibira, you don't have high ACPI CPU load with N5105? Maybe it's just the board, but my vendor told me there's a bios update and/or a microcode update which fixes this bug. On misc@ were two people who got it working by updating the bios, but i thought it would be better to apply just the microcode update.
18:11 < Filystyn> even some elf got patched
18:13 < sibiria> orwell: do you mean high acpi interrupt rate?
18:13 < sibiria> on this board i have no problems in fact
18:13 < orwell> si
18:14 < sibiria> irq96/acpi0  total: 1        rate: 0
18:14 < orwell> ~15% sys and 75% intr
18:14 < sibiria> 99%+ idle for me
18:14 < sibiria> on all cores
18:14 < orwell> your luck
18:15 < sibiria> what board are you running?
18:15 < orwell> https://www.ipu-system.de/produkte/ipu651.html
18:15 < orwell> rack version
18:16 < sibiria> rebranded Qotom board?
18:16 < orwell> yup
18:17 < orwell> i think so
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18:23 < sibiria> i'd guess that an EFI/BIOS update would be needed to solve the interrupt storm, rather than microcode update
18:23 < sibiria> i suspect we're both running the exact same ucode
18:23 < sibiria> MD5 (/etc/firmware/intel/06-9c-00) = ac382f7cfef95e97c37a5eae70c6ac71
18:24 < orwell> yes, that's mine too
18:24 < Zyxer> Ok it took 15 minutes to get to login prompt, but it refused any input and kept spitting out errors until 17 minutes. 
18:24 < Zyxer> I can't scroll and don't remember username I can't ping whoever asked T-T
18:25 < Zyxer> quanq?
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18:32 < quinq> Ah, that must be for me ^^
18:32 < quinq> Thank you very much Zyxer 
18:32 < quinq> I'll try to wait that much (and maybe more) on my side to see if I can match the result
18:33 < sibiria> orwell: do you have SpeedStep enabled in EFI/BIOS?
18:33 < sibiria> i noticed your dmesg reports the full boost freq. instead of the idle freq. of ~800 MHz
18:34 < orwell> sibira, i don't know. I can have a look. Should it be on or off?
18:34 < sibiria> on
18:34 < orwell> i'll check
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18:35 < Zyxer> https://clbin.com/TlP0l
18:36 < Zyxer> quinq: I get those weird errors at boot. But getting past the Mac BIOS takes some time, at first I thought it was stuck (still less than a minute)
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18:38 < quinq> Yeah, I have the same!
18:38 < quinq> But I didn't wait that long, so I assumed it just hanged
18:38 < quinq> WARNING: bad clock chip time
18:38 < quinq> WARNING: CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!
18:39 < quinq> That could be something
18:39 < quinq> But I don't have that one
18:39 < quinq> I'll try during the weekend
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18:41 < orwell> sibiria, SpeedStep is enabled
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18:43 < Zyxer> quinq: Yea well over 20 year old MoBo probs dead MoBo battery. 
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18:43 < Zyxer> I think I had that same error before but no issue when I used IDE HDD
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18:44 < quinq> ^^
18:44 < quinq> Also, how do you boot it?
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18:44 < quinq> Il tried both PXE and USB
18:44 < quinq> Same results
18:44 < sibiria> orwell: sorry, i'm out of ideas. unless it's something strange like maybe apmd somehow managing to mess with the CPU i think the only solution is in an EFI/BIOS update
18:45 < orwell> probably, thx anyway
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18:52 < Zyxer> quinq: What do you mean? I burned CD, boot CD, then install to drive
18:52 < Zyxer> Hmm... I can't eject the CD? wat
18:52 < quinq> ah, and booting from CD was immediate?
18:52 < Zyxer> Yes
18:52 < quinq> Interesting
18:52 < quinq> I don't have a CD to write on…
18:52 < Zyxer> CD had no problem, just a bit slow that you expect from a CD and 20+ year oild hardware
18:53 < Zyxer> Perhaps some pin or something isn't properly connected? It is such a hassle to get inside this this T-T
18:53 < Zyxer> and boot time is 17 minutes+ 
18:54 < quinq> haha yeah it is a hastle
18:54 < quinq> I opened it once after I bought it second hand, to clean it up
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19:10 < oldlaptop> Zyxer: I would suspect either some problem with that adapter, or a bad connection.
19:10 < oldlaptop> What you described in your initial question sounds like what IDE controllers do when they're trying to cope with excessively high error rates and so on
19:11 < oldlaptop> in something other than a tube mac I'd say it sounds like a bad and/or excessively-long cable
19:11 < oldlaptop> (and maybe I'm remembering wrong and that still has a stubby little three-inch ribbon cable anyway? still a failure point)
19:12 < oldlaptop> CF cards might be a better route for solid-state storage in IDE systems, incidentally (as actual native IDE devices that are still commercially available)
19:13 < oldlaptop> (CF-IDE "adapters" are just plug adapters, because CF cards are actually just IDE devices - so there's very little for them to get wrong)
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19:16 < oldlaptop> The business about the time being wrong is probably just the RTC battery being old enough to vote (and therefore dead)
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19:33 < Zyxer> oldlaptop: I just booted up from touching the hardware, you are right. I pushed every connection on all places they existed and pushed jumper. Felt like nothing happened until I booted then boom it is extrememly noticeable I am on SSD now compared to the old slow IDE HDD
19:35 < Zyxer> quinq: Read how I solved it, hardware issue, some cable probs not properly attached so one pin or something was missing, it booted at the speed of light (ok around 20 seconds) instead of like 2 minutes like it did with HDD
19:35 < Zyxer> :D
19:35 < oldlaptop> Out of curiosity/searching: had some of those connectors maybe been plugged in for 20 years?
19:35 < Zyxer> No, in order to remove the old IDE HDD I had to unplugg all connections and reattach them
19:36 < oldlaptop> Maybe something just wasn't seated all the way then?
19:36 < oldlaptop> Strange
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19:36 < oldlaptop> Or maybe the extra poking and prodding scraped a little more 20-year-old oxide off that you didn't quite get when you reseated them to install the new drive
19:37 < Zyxer> Or, to be perfectly honest, I somewhat deattached the ribbon cable on the mobo board just now, just to double check it was all the way in, and I think it was. Other than that all I did was push and mollest every single connection from mobo, to CD, to IDE adapter and then also IDE poweradapter (it didn't even buldge I doubt that was related) as well as the jumper
19:38 < Zyxer> Aw well, I also read it was boot partition that can't be over 4GB, so I am gonna reinstall all, issue before was probs same as now: Some bad connection
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19:38 < oldlaptop> Power connections (probably) wouldn't be the issue, it'd be one of the data cables
19:39 < oldlaptop> then again a wonky power supply can do all sorts of strange things
19:39 < Zyxer> I will tinker some, thanks for your time. 
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19:39 < Zyxer> Yea but the poweradapter didn't even buldge at least the other felt like the plastic did some buldge or something
19:39 < sibiria> there may be stale data in the cables, too. vflush(9) thoroughly before use
19:40 < Zyxer> Thanks!
19:40 < oldlaptop> I don't recall hearing of issues with where the boot partition is located on ppc macs, that was (AIUI) an issue with old i386 BIOSes
19:41 < oldlaptop> though on an openbsd-only machine there'd be no reason for / to extend past the first 1GB or whatever, no matter the disk size
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19:42 < Zyxer> oldlaptop: Accoprding to forums it is iMac firmware that cannot boot a partition over 4GB (or 6 results are a bit unlcear which it is, but all agree on an issue with the firmware booting a too big boot partition)
19:42 < Zyxer> iMac G3 to be specific
19:42  * oldlaptop will have to remember that
19:42 < oldlaptop> (or not, more likely)
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19:43 < Zyxer> I need sleep now. Bye and thanks! Great community. 
19:44 < Zyxer> b(OuO)d   (emoticon with 2 thumbs up, yea I personally didn't see it at first and was confused )
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20:18 < quinq> Thank you for the update, Zyxer 
20:18 < fifi> why is downloading torrents going so  badly? There are a lot of seeds, much more than peers, but eventually after a few minutes the torrent goes down from 2mb/s to 20bytes/s. I have to turn the qbittorrent off and turn it back on again and then it happens over and over again
20:20 < fro> how would anyone here to able to answer that
20:20 < fro> be able to
20:20 < fro> also why would you immediately assume it's the operating system and not something else?
20:20 < fifi> I am not sure ;o
20:20 < fifi> but ok, thanks :)
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20:22 < sibiria> try a different torrent client, like transmission
20:22 < fifi> ok
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20:23 < fro> there are a plethora of things you should try before deciding "this is an openbsd-specific issue"
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20:27 < quinq> Zyxer, booting the kernel.
20:27 < quinq> first wd0 timeout
20:28 < quinq> See you in 15 min
20:29 < fifi> ok :)
20:29 < fifi> it probably isn't the openbsd anyway, at first I thought it might be a firewall or something, I will find out, thanks :)
20:39 < quinq> fifi, I don't have this problem with transmission
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20:40 < fifi> ok, thanks! I will try it in a bit, cheers :)
20:40 < fifi> thank you for your time and I wish you all the best
20:40 < quinq> You too :)
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21:37 < GnarledHorn> I'm at 30 hours of trying to reproduce my tmux crash. 70 MB of tmux verbose logging. I think it knows I'm watching so it it's behaving 
21:38 < Bradipo> I made vi crash yesterday by trying to open a 500MB+ file and filling up /tmp.
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21:38 < Bradipo> Haven't seen tmux crash on OpenBSD as long as I can remember.  I have seen it crash on Linux though.
21:39 < thrig> vi crashes lots, I have two I'm working on
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21:42 < Bradipo> I don't often see vi crashes, so I was a bit surprised.
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23:26 < GnarledHorn> Bradipo: I have a small fanless PC that runs tmux and an irc client. Every so often I ssh in to find the tmux session has died! I've got it spitting out logs so I can maybe get some clues next time it happens
23:26 < GnarledHorn> but like I said... it knows I'm watching so it's being well-behaved!
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 19 00:00:08 2023