--- Log opened Wed Jul 19 00:00:08 2023
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02:29 < zwr> anyone else have the weird issue that disabling or uninstalling extensions doesn't work on iridium? 
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02:31 < zwr> uhh sorry I found the answer after I gave up and asked, seems to be a known issue and you need to use the extension icon and not the settings page
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03:22 < topcat001> GnarledHorn: Do you get a "server quit unexpectedly" message on the client terminal when tmux crashes?
03:23 < topcat001> Also are you running release or current?
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13:17 < BadCoderFinger> zwr:  Not sure if this will help, but maybe start a screen session, and a tmux session inside that, leaving it running that way and maybe you'll see an error message if tmux dies.
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13:18 < BadCoderFinger> Sorry zwr, I meant GnarledHorn 
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13:54 < a1fa> o/ hello cyberpals 
13:54 < a1fa> rsadowski: how's the plasma thing going?
13:56 < a1fa> a bit of excitement last few days with "wayland" making its appearance on openbsd
13:56 < a1fa> https://xenocara.org/Wayland_on_OpenBSD.html
13:56 < a1fa> we actually may be gracious with KDE Plasma if all of the cards align
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14:06 < ClaudioM> Here's hoping, but it seems that there's still a lot of work to do.
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14:08 < GnarledHorn> topcat001: Unfortunately I just started actively debugging and I've been blowing away my irc logs each time I restart the process. I'll find out the next time it happens! This machine is running 7.3 release
14:08 < GnarledHorn> BadCodeFinger: That's an interesting idea
14:09 < BadCoderFinger> GnarledHorn:  Do you have a scrollback limit set in tmux?
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14:11 < BadCoderFinger> The "history-limit" option...
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14:15 < GnarledHorn> BadCoderFinger: It would be the default. No customization
14:15 < BadCoderFinger> You might try a loop that cats a text file over and over, and see if you hit some kind of buffer memory error.
14:17 < Bradipo> Doesn't tmux have a default history-limit?
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14:18 < Bradipo> man page doesn't mention it, so maybe not.
14:20 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: set -g history-limit
14:20 < BadCoderFinger> Even if it's high, it might be enough to hit a ulimit
14:20 < byteskeptical> GnarledHorn: why not ktrace it
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14:21 < BadCoderFinger> byteskeptical:  Yeah, mine comes back "empty value"
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14:21 < GnarledHorn> also "empty value" 
14:22 < BadCoderFinger> GnarledHorn:  I'd still do the file test, because I just gotta know!
14:22 < GnarledHorn> byteskeptical: I'm capturing verbose tmux logging for this run. Given that it can take days for the error to occur, ktrace might fill up this tiny lil computer's storage :)
14:23 < GnarledHorn> So your theory is without a set history limit, tmux may be asking for more and more memory until it's killed? Would I see something like an "oom_killer" log someplace if that happened before?
14:23 < BadCoderFinger> GnarledHorn:  That would be my guess, but it's just a guess.
14:24 < BadCoderFinger> I'm not sure if you'd see that in the syslog, but probably.
14:24 < Bradipo> OpenBSD has oom_killer?
14:24 < Lucas6023> no
14:26 < BadCoderFinger> I've got a test running, and I don't see memory growing, so it must have a default limit.
14:27 < Bradipo> Well, it's easy to test the default limit... just enter the scroll back function and see how far back you can scroll.
14:28 < Bradipo> You should see something like "08:06:06 [75/75]"
14:28 < Bradipo> By the way, I've never noticed the timestamps until now, interesting.
14:29 < Bradipo> Or is history-limit not the scrollback buffer...
14:29 < Bradipo> Yes, it is.
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14:31 < GnarledHorn> I apologize for the oom_killer confusion. Showing my linux roots 
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14:32 < thrig> the oom_killer is the written-for-linux program that kills itself after not checking what malloc returned
14:34 < oldlaptop> GnarledHorn: you don't get core files?
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14:46 < GnarledHorn> oldlaptop: Not that I've found. Would it fall to the directory where tmux was launched? /tmp? Someplace else?
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14:49 < thrig> working directory of tmux process at time of kablooie
14:49 < GnarledHorn> right, then no. There are a lot of variables so I'm not blaming any particular piece of software yet
14:50 < GnarledHorn> this is a small fanless computer that runs 24x7 and is also running some software that does shared memory magic using lisp processes 
14:51 < GnarledHorn> 12
14:52 < Bradipo> 20
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14:55 < byteskeptical> GnarledHorn: you can run with tmux with -vv which should give you pretty verbose logging you can at least see if any activity up to a failure
14:57 < byteskeptical> GnarledHorn: you can also pass -f/dev/null as suggested by its maintainer to eliminate variables or unaccounted for configs
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15:00 < GnarledHorn> right - I followed that advice from before and that's how it's currently running
15:00 < GnarledHorn> no failures since then
15:00 < byteskeptical> GnarledHorn: if you suspect a history limit then setting a artifically low limit may help confirm or eliminate your theory
15:00 < byteskeptical> GnarledHorn: ah sorry missed that pary
15:00 < a1fa> what's happening yo!
15:01 < GnarledHorn> I have no theory. I'm collecting more data before I break my brain about it. It's the tiniest of inconveniences right now. I sometimes log off irc during the night, haha. Not a big deal
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15:02 < byteskeptical> GnarledHorn: For me it was the reorder windows setting that hangs my server
15:02 < GnarledHorn> that's good to know
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16:06 < Zyxer> Hi. Anyone know of a pleasant terminal that works on iMac PPC? 
16:07 < Zyxer> so far st, sakura, and all other either get error in regards to color or they don't exist in repo. So xterm is what I use
16:08 < Zyxer> Also, I dunno where to report bugs, but the installer for iMac PPC doesn't ask for keyboard layout and thus keeps it as US layout (or whatever the default is)
16:08 < BadCoderFinger> Zyxer:  Kinda surprising about st...  sakura is based on VTE, so that rules out a lot... Maybe urxvt if you want something lighter than xterm.
16:08 < Zyxer> It also doesn't ask about encryption
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16:09 < Zyxer> st complains about not being able to lock color 61, but I think the color number changes when you try multiple times. 
16:09 < phy1729> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#Keyboard for changing the keyboard layout
16:09 < BadCoderFinger> Is your X server running with 24 bit color?
16:10 < Zyxer> Yea I changed keyboard layout. Just thought maybe that the installer doesn't ask about it on iMac PPC may be a bug or oversight since the x86_64 asks for keyboard layout
16:10 < Zyxer> BadCoderFinger: How I check that? It is a CRT 
16:11 < BadCoderFinger> I should be in the X log file
16:11 < Zyxer> urxvt not in repo
16:11 < BadCoderFinger> s/^I/It/
16:12 < BadCoderFinger> It's x11/rxvt-unicode in ports
16:13 < Zyxer> Pixel depth 8 
16:13 < BadCoderFinger> Ah, yeah, st wants to be able to do truecolor...
16:13 < BadCoderFinger> rxvt should do the trick, though
16:13 < Bradipo> xterm?
16:14 < phy1729> Zyxer: it's because of https://github.com/openbsd/src/blob/master/distrib/miniroot/install.sub#L2134 and https://github.com/openbsd/src/blob/master/distrib/notes/powerpc64/features#L17  I think
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16:15 < Zyxer> How do I enable ports? 
16:15 < Zyxer> Or is it different from FreeBSD?
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16:15 < thrig> what does enable mean
16:16 < BadCoderFinger> Should just get it from pkg_add:  pkg_add rxvt-unicode
16:16 < phy1729> You should probably read https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html
16:16 < Zyxer> Oh ok yea I missunderstood
16:16 < Zyxer> I thought package name was rxvt
16:17 < BadCoderFinger> I should have said "packages" -- sorry for the confusion...
16:17 < Zyxer> Ok rxvt-unicode works
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16:18 < BadCoderFinger> Nice!
16:18 < Zyxer> Thanks for that term, at least one alternative to consider other than xterm 
16:18 < BadCoderFinger> Lighter than xterm, so less memory required, which will definitely be a problem on a PPC mac...
16:19 < Zyxer> I lost all my dot files, I apparently decided to overwrite all dotfiles with dotfiles from a normal laptop. But oh well, I guess this helps learning it properly. 
16:19 < Zyxer> Yes I have 320MB RAM, and the CPU is not powerful 
16:20 < Zyxer> PowerPC is kinda false marketing today smh
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16:26 < oldlaptop> Zyxer: Perhaps either konsole or qterminal would meet whatever your needs are? I don't recall either being hosed for big-endian (but then again I thought vte still worked on big-endian)
16:27 < Zyxer> I dunno what big endian is... >_<
16:28 < oldlaptop> If one has a number composed of multiple bytes (let's say two for now), one could put the most significant bit first, or the least significant bit first. i386/amd64 put the least significant bit first. POWER/PowerPC/whatever can do either, but old macs put the most significant bit first.
16:29 < oldlaptop> There's not really much reason to prefer either one, but since macs went i386 (and therefore little-endian - little end first) lots of badly-written software (like, even more than before) is broken for big-endian machines
16:30 < oldlaptop> it was already bad enough around ten years ago when POWER8 CPUs came out that IBM started trying to get everyone to use those in little-endian mode
16:30 < BadCoderFinger> I'm a software guy working mostly with networking, so I much prefer BE...
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16:35 < oldlaptop> If you suppose you have the number 0xBEEF, your old tube imac stores those two bytes as 0xBE 0xEF, where an amd64 will store them as 0xEF 0xBE
16:35 < oldlaptop> Software doesn't need to care about this if it's written well, but software isn't always written well
16:36 < oldlaptop> as all those people like BadCoderFinger writing network software can tell you, it's not all that hard to control what byte order you emit when serializing something to disk or on the network or whatever else
16:37 < thrig> mailman, for example, failed hard at a 32- to 64-bit upgrade
16:37 < thrig> so I wrote some perl scripts to export all the lists and import them on the other side
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16:42 < Zyxer> Thanks for the explanations. So if I understood this correctly big-endian is most important byte first?
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16:43 < BadCoderFinger> "Most significant", yeah
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16:45 < phy1729> The big end goes first
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16:46 < thrig> does your bank account have $2000.00 or $0000.02 in it?
16:46 < BadCoderFinger> <- checks...  "Dangit!"
16:47 < BadCoderFinger> Now I need beer money...
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18:40 < a1fa> syspatch73-010_ssh_age...
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18:52 < BadCoderFinger> Every time I have to go through a windows update at work, I love syspatch that much more.
18:52 < Bradipo> Interesting: syspatch: connect: Operation timed out
18:52 < Bradipo> First time I've seen that.
18:53 < thrig> ETOOBUSY
18:54 < Filystyn> update is not that bad as installation ( win )
18:55 < a1fa> BadCoderFinger: windows updates are a lot more than just "syspatch"
18:55 < BadCoderFinger> True, but that doesn't make the process any good...
18:55 < thrig> new features! security fixes for fixes! etc
18:56 < BadCoderFinger> "More 'telemetry' than most government agencies!"
18:56 < BadCoderFinger> Heh
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18:58 < Filystyn> and the best thing is b bsd.rd
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18:59 < BadCoderFinger> Bradipo:  ESERVERMELTING
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19:28 < topcat001> tmux by default has a 2000 line history limit for scrollback. See, for example, https://github.com/tmux/tmux/blob/fda393773485c7c9236e4cf0c18668ab809d2574/tmux.1#L6312
19:29 < BadCoderFinger> topcat001:  Good to know, thanks!
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19:39 < Bradipo> topcat001: Yeah, I did look at the man page, but it's not documented there.
19:39 < GnarledHorn> he's been scrolling this whole time!
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19:43 < thrig> man tmux | col -bx | grep history-limit
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19:45 < Bradipo> The man page I have documents history-limit, but it does not document the 2000 default, at least not where one would expect it to be found:
19:45 < Bradipo> http://man.openbsd.org/tmux#history-limit
19:45 < Bradipo> So yeah, if I grep the entire man page, I may find a discussion of it in the discussion of BUFFERS, but I think that's a bit silly.
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19:47 < GnarledHorn> thrig: why col in the middle of that one-liner? I just scanned the col man page. 
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19:49 < topcat001> I agree; it does not hurt to mention the default value where history-limit is documented.
19:51 < thrig> try it without the col
19:53 < GnarledHorn> huh. I even tried piping it through cat in the middle in case `man` was expecting a pager or something
19:54 < GnarledHorn> ah! you can use `man -c tmux` as well (-c sends content to stdout)
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20:01 < GnarledHorn> my toughbook installation is in great shape. I still need to figure out the suspend/resume functionality,  but all of the hardware and function keys work out of the box! 
20:02 < GnarledHorn> It was a pleasant surprise to have the keyboard backlight and screen brightness keys work right away. I guess I'm used to having degraded experiences on laptops
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20:24 < orwell> Is there any tool like x86info to get the loaded microcode version for the cpu? I'm still debugging acpi errors on an b5105 board for which a bios update isn't available yet.
20:25 < orwell> *n5105
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20:26 < thrig> cpuid, maybe
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20:30 < orwell> thrig, is there any guide how to use cpuid? I don't get what I see there
20:33 -!- concrete_houses [~g@c-73-47-11-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openbsd
20:33 < concrete_houses> is the signal protocall used by whataapp etc something new or based on SSL or something?
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20:34 < concrete_houses> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_Protocol
20:34 < fro> what does this question have to do with openbsd?
20:34 < concrete_houses> The protocol combines the Double Ratchet algorithm, prekeys, and a triple Elliptic-curve Diffie–Hellman (3-DH) handshake,[5] and uses Curve25519, AES-256, and HMAC-SHA256 as primitives.[6]
20:34 < concrete_houses> openbsd is security minded
20:34 < concrete_houses> I would thing users might know something
20:35 < concrete_houses> in this area
20:35 < fro> so nothing then
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20:36 < concrete_houses> well say you wanted to create a competitor to whatsapp
20:36 < concrete_houses> or get into modern security
20:36 < concrete_houses> isn't openbsd a starting point?
20:36 < fro> no
20:36 < uwharrie> you'd find another channel to ask such vague questions
20:37 < concrete_houses> openbsd can be used to create distributed secure networks right? it can be a rtouer and firewall?
20:37 < fro> maybe
20:38 < concrete_houses> do you gentlemen work at organizations running production openbsd setups?
20:38 < fro> i certainly don't
20:39 < fro> i don't see how any of this relates back to your original question
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20:46 < dgriffi> has anyone here successfully booted install73.iso from a ventoy thumb drive?
20:47 < phy1729> Why would you use the .iso with a usb drive?
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20:48 < phy1729> There's a description of the different images at https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Download
20:48 < sibiria> dgriffi: not 7.3 but i did a few versions ago around 7.0
20:48 < dgriffi> see ventoy.net.  it's a set of programs that allows a thumb drive to contain multiple boot images
20:49 < dgriffi> sibiria: what version of ventoy were you using?
20:50 < dgriffi> phy1729: I don't see how that part of the FAQ is relevant.
20:50 < sibiria> dgriffi: no idea but whatever was the latest at that time, ~18-24 months ago
20:50 < sibiria> phy1729: ventoy can do CDROM emulation for .iso images
20:50 < concrete_houses> seperate question
20:50 < concrete_houses> @ running show on openbsd
20:50 < concrete_houses> i find openbsd bit slower than freebsd or archlinux
20:51 < concrete_houses> I heard a university in canada uses openbsd a lot for whole campus
20:51 < uwharrie> sounds like hearsay
20:51 < fro> is that a question?
20:52 < fro> 2023 and literally on the internet and someone is still saying "i heard ..."
20:52 < fro> just verify it
20:52 < fro> also yeah openbsd is slow
20:52 < dgriffi> phy1729: my point is that somehow the 7.3 iso won't boot when presented through Ventoy.
20:53 < concrete_houses> I was watching a youtube video i think a guy named beck and he was talking about campus using openbsd for everything
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20:53 < concrete_houses> I know openbsd vs archlinux and freebsd since I sued them last 10+ years
20:53 < concrete_houses> on personal desktops
20:53 < fro> ok
20:53 < concrete_houses> so openssh is from openbsd
20:53 < concrete_houses> but openSSL is not.??
20:53 < fro> correct
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20:56 < concrete_houses> is TLS now better to use for a website?
20:57 < uwharrie> better than what?
20:57 < dgriffi> so I can better track down this problem, where can I get a copy of the 7.0 install ISO?
20:57 < dgriffi> the earliest I can find on the site is 7.2
20:58 < concrete_houses> https://letsencrypt.org/ better than SSL?
20:58 < dgriffi> concrete_houses: it is ssl.
20:58 < concrete_houses> I rememebr getting keys signed with thawt at one jb
20:58 < concrete_houses> job
20:58 < concrete_houses> oh it is ok
20:58 < dgriffi> concrete_houses: letsencrypt is a means of getting ssl certificates.
20:58 < concrete_houses> i also remmeber this liek intermediate cert
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20:58 < concrete_houses> ok
20:58 < uwharrie> these "questions" continue to be vague and unanswerable
20:59 < dgriffi> concrete_houses: and automatically renewing it
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20:59 < fro> haha
20:59 < concrete_houses> Well if I understood exactly I would not ask for help
20:59 < phy1729> dgriffi: you'd have to hit the master site I think https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/
20:59 < dgriffi> concrete_houses: SSL is for encrypting network traffic.  
20:59 < metavoid> dgriffi: https://ftp.lysator.liu.se/pub/OpenBSD/
21:00 < concrete_houses> ok cool
21:00 < fro> concrete_houses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Layer_Security
21:00 < dgriffi> phy1729: found it.
21:00 < phy1729> concrete_houses: you should really consider asking #security not here
21:01 < concrete_houses> are we not allowed ot talk about uses for openbsd as part of website making and money making?
21:01 < uwharrie> asking if "X" is better without really knowing what "X" is or  providing anything against which to judge it makes it difficult for anyone to respond. you'd be much better off asking for resources to learn what these things are
21:02 < concrete_houses> see I was going to circle back and ask why not make a website for chat instead of a phone app, maybe make it better for small screen and just use ssl+tls?  
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21:02 < concrete_houses> I loved aolchat back in the day and yahoo chat and then phones came and they seemsed to be kileld off I used to have an app called pidgin which talks yahoo msn and aol chat all in 1 and was awesome you could chat to friends all teh time free
21:02 < phy1729> concrete_houses: your questions have nothing to do with OpenBSD
21:03 < concrete_houses> that needs to come back as far as im concerned I diskliek phone apps since htye do too many popupps
21:03 < concrete_houses> well in the context of using openbsd as secure platform for websites and moneymaking
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21:03 < fro> pidgin is still around
21:03 < fro> the companies behind those services just shut those services down
21:04 < concrete_houses> :(
21:04 < fro> meaning aol, msn, and yahoo
21:04 < fro> in any case
21:04 < fro> nothing to do with the actual app really
21:04 < fro> or openbsd
21:05 < Bradipo> pidgin can do IRC.
21:05 < fro> pidgin can do lots of things
21:06 < fro> probably too many
21:07 < dgriffi> concrete_houses: SSL is a means of protecting transport.  It has nothing in particular to do with any one operating system.
21:07 < dgriffi> concrete_houses: it's like going into #gentoo to ask general questions about Apache
21:08 < dgriffi> concrete_houses: if you have questions about how to use SSL specifically with OpenBSD, then this is the right place.   Otherwise, see #security
21:08 < dgriffi> Bradipo: I was under the impression that Pidgin has been reduced to useless over the past several years.
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21:11 < fro> it still works
21:11 < fro> still supports multiple protocols
21:12 < Bradipo> To be fair, I haven't used it in a while because of lack of support for other protocols like Matrix.  But pidgin+otr was great in its day.
21:14 < Bradipo> Maybe I should give it another try, maybe it's gotten better.
21:15 < fro> looks like it has a matrix plugin
21:15 < fro> unmaintained tho
21:15 < fro> anyway not trying to sell using pidgin
21:15 < fro> i haven't used it since before AIM was killed off
21:15 < Bradipo> Understood.  I used to use pidgin a lot.
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21:19 < byteskeptical> it was never pidgin but its libpurple dependency that became/is an issue
21:19 < Bradipo> https://github.com/matrix-org/purple-matrix/#readme
21:19 < Bradipo> Seems it lacks any real utility (no end-to-end encryption).
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21:22 < byteskeptical> Weechat might be the closest replacement with support for a similar range of protocols
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21:28 < sibiria> Pidgin is still being developed. not the least abandoned
21:28 < Bradipo> Right, pidgin proper works great.
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21:29 < dgriffi> it seems that stand-alone chat programs other than for irc are seldom used now.
21:30 < dgriffi> you have yo log into a website to use it, or else it's embedded into a monstrosity like Facebook.
21:30 < thrig> or uh electron app
21:30 < dgriffi> s/yo/to/
21:31 < Bradipo> Right, that's why I had high hopes for pidgin and libpurple, but their matrix support is lacking.  There are other matrix clients in ports, but they are kind of icky.
21:31 < dgriffi> thrig: electron is a special-purpose browser
21:31 < thrig> with extra special access to the system
21:31 < dgriffi> thrig: with lots of overhead
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21:37 < apotheon> dgriffi: Isn't that implicit in "browser"?
21:38 < apotheon> (at least that particular browser family)
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21:40 < dgriffi> apotheon: not quite.  something like pidgen is not a browser.  it implements just a chat protocol.  electron is a kitchen sink that allows one to wrap up web stuff into something that appears to be a standalone application.
21:42 < tux0r> electron is a headless web browser with known security holes and no sane way to get security fixes quickly that happens to be able to simulate something that resembles a desktop application.
21:43 < dgriffi> that kitchen-sink mentality leads to those known security holes
21:43 < dgriffi> "extra special access"... 
21:43  * dgriffi snickers
21:45 < apotheon> dgriffi: I think you didn't quite get what I was saying.
21:45 < apotheon> 21:31 < dgriffi> thrig: electron is a special-purpose browser
21:45 < apotheon> 21:31 < dgriffi> thrig: with lots of overhead
21:46 < apotheon> 21:37 < apotheon> dgriffi: Isn't that implicit in "browser"?
21:46 < apotheon> Isn't lots of overhead implicit in (that family of) browser?
21:46 < dgriffi> apotheon: any sort of browser
21:47 < apotheon> now, instead of "not quite", you're saying "quite a bit more than you said"
21:47 < dgriffi> apotheon: the point of electron is a quick and very dirty means of creating something that looks like a standalone application.  As tux0r points out, it does that poorly.
21:47 < apotheon> . . . but there are degrees to browsers.  Compare w3m to Chrome.
21:47 < apotheon> dgriffi: Yes, I'm aware of what Electron is and its implications.
21:47 < apotheon> Never mind.  Forget I said anything agreeing with you.
21:48 < apotheon> I didn't come here for a debate.
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21:50 < tux0r> why then?
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22:15 < dgriffi> sorry... I don't know how we got off onto that mess
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22:20 < GnarledHorn> apropos of nothing, I just discovered the xterm "unreadable" size. Very cool! I have the tiniest little window monitoring a port build
22:21 < oldlaptop> Unfortunately it is unreadable
22:21 < Bradipo> I use the "unreadable" size for running a lot of things in xterms.
22:22 < oldlaptop> (Then again, you were really just watching the shapes scroll by anyway, I guess)
22:22 < Bradipo> I just use banner(1) to output things if I want to read them.
22:22 < Bradipo> banner on an "unreadable" xterm is actually leggible.
22:22 < GnarledHorn> oldlaptop: exactly
22:22 < GnarledHorn> Bradipo: I like that! 
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22:23 < GnarledHorn> You could have some long running process wrap up with a banner statement
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22:23 < Bradipo> That's what I did basically.
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22:24 < sibiria> <long-running thing here>; printf \\x07\\x07\\x07    # then just minimize
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22:25 < oldlaptop> But then you don't get the shapes
22:26 < Superbblue> Hi, does anyone have any pointers where to start troubleshooting this? When I try to install the amd64 install73.img on my machine it loads the stick, gets working and then gets stuck at the first prompt (Press (i) to install). Doesn't react to keyboard input at all. :( thanks
22:26 < Bradipo> USB keyboard?
22:26 < Superbblue> yeah
22:26 < Superbblue> works in uefi/bios though
22:26 < Bradipo> Did you try unplugging/plugging it in?
22:27 < Superbblue> yup, tried different usb slots, to avail
22:27 < Bradipo> When you do that, the kernel should report the device detach/attach.
22:28 < Superbblue> there's definitely nothing on the screen. I tried all kinds of keyboard combos, even just to restart the machine, but it doesn't react
22:28 < oldlaptop> It's probably not practical for you to post a dmesg (because you don't have a working keyboard), but it might be worth watching the white-on-blue text scrolling by carefully to see if (a) any USB controller is attaching at all and (b) if so if there are any suspicious-looking messages about it
22:29 < oldlaptop> If this is a USB3 machine and if there are any non-USB3 slots, you should try one of those specifically
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22:30 < Superbblue> I wouldn't know how to post the dmesg from that position, to be honest :) but thanks, those are some things to go by
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22:31 < oldlaptop> You should be able to mount a umass(4) or other removable storage device (got any floppies?) from the bsd.rd shell
22:31 < oldlaptop> (you know, assuming you have a shell)
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22:32 < oldlaptop> If you have another keyboard you can try, that might be worthwhile.
22:32 < oldlaptop> For that matter, if you have other USB devices you can try, that might be worthwhile - see if it gives you any messages on attach/detach
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22:33 < oldlaptop> There might be UEFI settings that are pertinent (something about "legacy USB", maybe)
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22:33 < Superbblue> Oh, right, I can start a shell from the img instead of go into the installer (I think). That might work. But I did install freebsd after that on the machine yesterday. So bios settings should check out keyboard support wise and such
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22:35 < oldlaptop> If there's some way to get a serial console on this machine, that might also be worth trying. (Would help to distinguish among "the keyboard doesn't work", "usb doesn't work", and "everything is broken")
22:36 < oldlaptop> likewise for not-USB keyboards (i.e. PS/2 on i386 or amd64)
22:36 < GnarledHorn> fwiw, I had to monkey with the installer image to get a com0 connectino during install
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22:37 < Superbblue> Alright, thanks I'll try that. Hopefully my abandonware box will find a new life as openbsd host :)
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22:37 < oldlaptop> GnarledHorn: that normally should not be necessary :|
22:37 < GnarledHorn> Here's the instructions I followed: http://www.weirdnet.nl/openbsd/serial/
22:37 < oldlaptop> :(
22:38 < GnarledHorn> This was for a completely headless (as in no VGA or HDMI etc output) machine
22:38 < GnarledHorn> maybe it was required long ago?
22:38 < oldlaptop> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq7.html#SerCon
22:38 < oldlaptop> I've never had to "monkey with the installer image" on my apu2 hardware
22:39 < GnarledHorn> this was for an apu2
22:39 < oldlaptop> That absolutely shouldn't be necessary
22:39 < GnarledHorn> you got com0 input/output by default?
22:39 < GnarledHorn> huh. I'll try a vanilla installer next time
22:40 < oldlaptop> (That site doesn't even load here, so I can't comment further)
22:41 < GnarledHorn> it's a small change to boot.conf 
22:41 < GnarledHorn> but I hear you - this was for the same device.
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22:42 < tommyrot> what change?
22:42 < tommyrot> set tty com0?
22:42 < oldlaptop> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fnrofSypstwJ:www.weirdnet.nl/openbsd/serial/ "I supply install media for... versions starting from 3.5" :|
22:42 < tommyrot> right :)
22:43 < oldlaptop> this is now over a quarter century ago
22:43 < GnarledHorn> ha!
22:43 < oldlaptop> (no, 19 years rather) https://www.openbsd.org/35.html
22:44 < tommyrot> that's why howtos and guides are dumb, just stick to the man pages and FAQ
22:45 < tommyrot> which are always up to date
22:46 < oldlaptop> http://www.weirdnet.nl/openbsd/ Hey, some of those are reasonably cool machines. (Although I don't think either of the not-i386 ones run openbsd anymore.)
22:47 < oldlaptop> (huh, and I guess the mips one never did, I thought those worked for a while)
22:48 < GnarledHorn> yeah. I failed to consult the release info etc beforehand. At least I got some experience exploring the installer image :) Glad to fix my misunderstanding though
22:49 < oldlaptop> "punch it into google" is one of the later steps for openbsd, as a general rule
22:50 < oldlaptop> (although site:openbsd might be a sensible idea)
22:50 < oldlaptop> er, site:openbsd.org rather
22:50 < oldlaptop> should be faster than grepping a www checkout
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22:57 < GnarledHorn> ack
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--- Log closed Thu Jul 20 00:00:09 2023