--- Log opened Sat Jul 22 00:00:12 2023
00:01 < greg00> I am intersted to know more about that, I have openbsd running on two other machines, their reported memory matches more closely to what the bios reports
00:02 < xse> igpu?
00:03 < greg00> xse yes
00:03 < topcat001> an integrated gpu takes some also
00:06 < greg00> hadn't thought of that. where can I see how much is allocated to the igpu? I don't think it is shown in dmesg or systat
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00:16 < xse> don't know if it's even reported anywhere, there might be bios options to tweak like here i have an "UMA frame buffer size" one that goes from 1 to 8GB - ryzen 7 PRO 6850U
00:18 < greg00> cool, thanks for the tip
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00:35 < GnarledHorn> I moved my long-lived tmux session off the apu2 and onto a different machine. Unfortunately I'll never have an answer about the tmux sessions vanishing
00:36 < GnarledHorn> fwiw, I had /tmp as an mfs filesystem and it was mysteriously at > 100% capacity the other day. Possibly related *shrug*
00:47 < oldlaptop> How much above 100%? That's not necessarily unusual or mysterious: the denominator is based on the unreserved area that can be used by nonroot users
00:48 < oldlaptop> some small portion of a filesystem (I think 10% by default?) is reserved for root so a nonprivileged user can't just fill it up and make it difficult for root to do root things
00:48 < oldlaptop> (and mfs is just ffs in RAM)
00:49 < oldlaptop> https://man.openbsd.org/newfs#m 5%, not 10%
00:50 < oldlaptop> https://man.openbsd.org/tunefs.8#m would imply that there's more going on than just leaving root space to work
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08:42 < cadmio> Hello
08:42 < cadmio> do you know how can I use xmodmap to switch two key of a keyboard?
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09:05 < op2> cadmio: don't know if there's a better way but you could use xmodmap -pk to dump the current layout and then load the other one
09:05 < cadmio> op2: yes but how you understand what's the keycode for the particular key?
09:05 < op2> i'm doing something similar to switch between dvorak + left-handed mouse and querty + right-handend mouse
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09:06 < op2> well, you have to pick a key that's different in the two layouts and use that to decide
09:07 < cadmio> of which layouts are yout talking about?
09:07 < soundmodel> anyone know if OpenBSD + Windows dual-boot is usable?
09:07 < cadmio> I tried to use xev
09:07 < op2> ah oops, i misread the original question xD
09:07 < soundmodel> I mean because originally I tried to go for a triple boot Win/Linux/OpenBSD
09:07 < soundmodel> but now I am thinking whether I can suffice with Windows, OpenBSD and Linux via Linuxulator
09:08 < soundmodel> that is, do I need Linux for anything with OpenBSD?
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09:13 < op2> cadmio: anyway, you can get the keycode with xev and then use something like xmodmap -e 'keycode <code> = <letter>' twice to swap the keys
09:14 < cadmio> op2: the 1st issue it to identify the keycode
09:14 < op2> 'keycode 38 = a' and 'keycode 40 = e' for example swaps 'a' end 'e' on a dvorak layout (they're 'a' and 'd' respectively on a querty)
09:14 < op2> open exev, press the keyboard and watch the output
09:14 < cadmio> this is what I get with 'xev' https://paste.debian.net/1286615/
09:15 < cadmio> if you press like 'q' it clearly tells you that you pressed 'q' and its keycode but with that key nothing appears
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09:16 < op2> stupid question: are you focusing xev' window when pressing q ?
09:16 < op2> if you focus the terminal it doesn't work
09:17 < cadmio> I mean if I press 'q' or 'esc' it works well, but with that particular key I want to replace it doesn't display the keycode
09:18 < soundmodel> anyone know a graphical disk management tool?
09:18 < soundmodel> have a hard time finding one
09:19 < op2> cadmio: the only thing i can think of is that that key is intercepted by something else, maybe your window manager
09:19 < soundmodel> the main issue is that I cannot understand all the stuff fdisk reports
09:20 < soundmodel> I thought my second hdd has ubuntu + win
09:20 < cadmio> op2: it's an apple keyboard
09:24 < soundmodel> but fdisk shows:
09:24 < soundmodel>  0: 07      0  32  33 -  15525 246  30 [        2048:   249422605 ] NTFS
09:24 < soundmodel>  1: 27  31051 213  11 -  31130 158   4 [   498847744:     1265664 ] Win Recovery
09:24 < soundmodel>  2: 00      0   0   0 -      0   0   0 [           0:           0 ] unused
09:24 < soundmodel>  3: 00      0   0   0 -      0   0   0 [           0:           0 ] unused
09:24 < soundmodel> is it possible that OpenBSD just doesn't see other than windows?
09:24 < soundmodel> or then there's not really Ubuntu there
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09:30 < cadmio> this guy seems to have the same issue https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/328039/unable-to-find-keycode-for-volume-key-on-apple-keyboard
09:30 < soundmodel> why does disklabel report a partition c: that has fstype unused
09:31 < soundmodel> but is the size of the entire disk
09:31 < soundmodel> even when the disk has stuff
09:31 < soundmodel> is it just some convention
09:31 < soundmodel> it's not empty space
09:33 < pardis> because that partition represents the entire disk, and does not have a filesystem
09:33 < soundmodel> oh I see
09:33 < soundmodel> can I trust that OpenBSD reports all file systems
09:34 < soundmodel> as I said I thought that disk also has Ubuntu
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09:34 < soundmodel> but it's not reported by disklabel or fdisk
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09:44 < bob_x1> what filesystem I better choose if I need it to work on openbsd and linux ?
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10:02 < sibiria> ext2
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10:06 < sibiria> some will suggest ext3, but besides journaling ext3 has a couple of other features which if applied to the file system will make it unreadable by a pure ext2 driver like openbsd's. safer to stay on ext2
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10:12 < soundmodel> still wondering what's the best way to go with OpenBSD w.r.t. to the existing Linux and Windows ecosystems
10:13 < soundmodel> I also thought that what if one installed only OpenBSD and the attempted to make Windows programs usable only through Virtualbox
10:13 < soundmodel> so that I would not have to install Linux nor Windows natively
10:14 < sibiria> virtualbox doesn't run on openbsd
10:14 < soundmodel> something else then?
10:14 < sibiria> qemu is available
10:14 < sibiria> it's not a snappy experience, but it's stable
10:14 < soundmodel> multibooting seems to messy that I don't think it's a good solution for a reliable system
10:14 < soundmodel> I just had my windows boot procedure broken
10:14 < soundmodel> because of how it acts with OpenBSD
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10:15 < soundmodel> so now I think of installing only OpenBSD and then figuring out how to emulate everything else
10:15 < soundmodel> as long as there's no native alternative
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10:17 < soundmodel> why is FreeBSD's virtualbox not available
10:17 < sibiria> because openbsd isn't freebsd
10:18 < soundmodel> yes I know, but I don't want more incompatibilities
10:18 < soundmodel> but compatibilities
10:18 < soundmodel> then FreeBSD's virtualbox be ported
10:18 < soundmodel> yes?
10:19 < soundmodel> or maybe qemu is meant as an alternative?
10:19 < soundmodel> never used it
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10:20 < sibiria> porting needs: time
10:20 < soundmodel> qemu site says
10:20 < soundmodel> "Run programs for another Linux/BSD target, on any supported architecture"
10:20 < soundmodel> so this means one may run FreeBSD on qemu and then Virtualbox on that?
10:20 < sibiria> sure, if you want to make things doubly complicated and twice as slow
10:21 < sibiria> instead of just running windows/linux directly in qemu
10:21 < cadmio> op2: here https://askubuntu.com/questions/690202/swap-roles-of-super-r-and-iso-level3-shift-keys-of-apple-keyboard-on-ubuntu it says that the keycode should be 134 and indeed xmodmap -pk gives me Super_R at 134
10:21 < soundmodel> okay so it's an alternative then
10:21 < cadmio> do you known how can I swap with this keycode https://paste.debian.net/1286618/ ?
10:21 < sibiria> qemu is emulation/virtualization, just like virtualbox
10:21 < sibiria> they both do pretty much the same thing
10:22 < pardis> bob_x1: ext3 will be more reliable on Linux and works fine on OpenBSD too
10:22 < pardis> just steer clear of ext4
10:24 < pardis> soundmodel: what would be the point of running Windows on FreeBSD on OpenBSD instead of just running Windows in qemu in the first place?
10:24 < soundmodel> I just thought that maybe Virtualbox would've been better
10:24 < soundmodel> than qemu
10:24 < soundmodel> having no experience with qemu itself
10:25 < soundmodel> I mean because my main concern is whether the API layer is sensible
10:25 < sibiria> virtualbox is a lot more convenient, but that doesn't matter since you cannot run it on openbsd anyway. qemu is your option
10:25 < soundmodel> so that it can run e.g. Android Studio
10:25 < soundmodel> or other things that require an "authentic OS representation"
10:25 < sibiria> if i were you i'd just sort the multiboot problem out. evidently it works fine to run windows, linux and openbsd off of the same HDD/SSD
10:26 < soundmodel> yes, but I cannot find a clear 100% foolproof guide
10:26 < soundmodel> the official guide is also MBR-oriented
10:26 < pardis> the emulation tool cannot make the OS running inside it less real
10:26 < pardis> but running anything non-trivial in unaccelerated qemu is going to be too slow to be practical
10:27 < soundmodel> my experience has been that a virtual machine can fail to support some drivers
10:27 < soundmodel> because it does not represent the real hardware
10:27 < soundmodel> or does not represent it fully
10:27 < pardis> you have that backwards
10:27 < pardis> hardware doesn't "support" drivers, drivers support hardware
10:27 < soundmodel> so you e.g. use "Nvidia-only software"
10:27 < soundmodel> and it cannot run
10:28 < pardis> of course it can't run, you don't have Nvidia hardware
10:28 < soundmodel> because the virtual machine does not give full Nvidia api
10:28 < soundmodel> even if you have such card
10:28 < pardis> it would be the same thing if you used real hardware with no Nvidia card in it
10:28 < pardis> no, the VM doesn't have such a card
10:28 < pardis> unless you use PCI passthrough or something
10:28 < soundmodel> yes but obviously one wants to run such programs
10:28 < pardis> that's not at all obvious
10:28 < soundmodel> anyways I can do the multiboot
10:29 < soundmodel> if there's a good guide with UEFI
10:29 < soundmodel> and not some archaic grub MBR
10:30 < pardis> UEFI multiboot is straightforward enough that it doesn't require a guide
10:30 < pardis> all you need is something that can provide a menu
10:30 < pardis> if your firmware can't, install rEFInd or something
10:30 < soundmodel> well that's why I also wanted UEFI
10:30 < pardis> or GRUB can do that as well
10:30 < soundmodel> I haven't actually figured out ety
10:30 < soundmodel> yet
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10:30 < soundmodel> whether the boot menu in my HP Bios
10:30 < soundmodel> is essentially the same as refind
10:31 < soundmodel> rEFInd*
10:31 < soundmodel> I think it's
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11:01 < cadmio> op2: I tried to create a .Xmodmap file in homedir with the following content https://paste.debian.net/1286625/ but it doesn't work
11:01 < soundmodel> why is dd/pv so slow
11:01 < soundmodel> compared to what "format disk" does in e.g. Windows
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11:06 < sibiria> quick-formating in windows is something else than overwriting the entire disk with dd
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11:07 < sibiria> but that said, openbsd's disk i/o is inherently slower than windows' and linux' dittODo
11:07 < sibiria> you don't need to overwrite the disk with dd/pv to use it. you can just "newfs" the labels dirrectly
11:07 < sibiria> ditto*
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11:22 < soundmodel> how can I delete the partitions on a disk
11:23 < soundmodel> read fdisk manual already
11:23 < sibiria> if you want to zero out the entire disk layout you can just dd one or two megabytes of zeroes onto it
11:24 < sibiria> dd if=/dev/zero of=... bs=1m count=2
11:24 < sibiria> if you want to deal with just the openbsd portion of the disk, use disklabel
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11:25 < soundmodel> i did fdisk -g sd1
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11:26 < sibiria> that's fine
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11:44 < xse> here are the notes i took for a dualboot windows11+openbsd FDE, was fairly simple tho my bios includes the uefi boot selector so no refind was needed https://0x0.st/HeMV.txt
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12:57 < soundmodel> why does disklabel say "16 partitions"
12:57 < soundmodel> for an empty disk
12:58 < soundmodel> it's just a shorthand for "up to 16 partitions"?
12:59 < sibiria> i think so. it always says 16
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13:06 < pardis> it's referring to the number of partitions in the metadata, even if they are not allocated
13:06 < pardis> the disklabel metadata format used to support fewer partitions
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13:25 < soundmodel> why is a thing like this not in official docs? https://www.h-i-r.net/p/multi-booting-windows-10-and-openbsd.html
13:25 < thrig> why would it be?
13:26 < soundmodel> because it's a common use case
13:26 < soundmodel> because windows has software that many people need to use at work
13:26 < thrig> that's a different view
13:26 < soundmodel> just speculation, but what if someone goes away because they cannot see such guide
13:27 < soundmodel> and it seems "too difficult"
13:27 < soundmodel> even if they were interested in OpenBSD
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13:33 < op2> cadmio: sorry was afk.  no idea then.  if you're sure the wm nor any other program (sxhkd, sndiokeys, ...) has taken those keys then i don't have the slightest idea ^^"
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14:08 < se1> soundmodel: given that a 250gb ssd can be had for around $25 usd, might it be easier for you to merely install each operating system on it's own drive and use your bios boot menu to select from?
14:08 < soundmodel> on a laptop?
14:09 < eea> lots of newer laptops have 2 drives
14:09 < soundmodel> not all have
14:09 < soundmodel> and will not have
14:09 < se1> didn't realize you were using a laptop, though there are external drive docks
14:09 < eea> usb3 docks are a thing
14:09 < soundmodel> yes and then the performance drops
14:09 < sibiria> it's not too bad over usb3
14:09 < soundmodel> I think multibooting is of serious importance for laptops
14:09 < eea> not by much, especially openbsd
14:09 < sibiria> also: openbsd's disk i/o is slow already :PP
14:10 < sibiria> you won't notice the perf drop at all!
14:10 < soundmodel> until OpenBSD is mature as The One OS
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14:10 < eea> i have an openbsd usb3 thumbdrive that performs flawlessly
14:11 < soundmodel>  anyways I am going to attempt https://www.h-i-r.net/p/multi-booting-windows-10-and-openbsd.html
14:11 < soundmodel> and if it works then I think it should be in official docs
14:11 < thrig> very unlikely
14:11 < soundmodel> ?
14:15 < sibiria> it's sort of outside the scope of official documentation
14:15 < sibiria> no matter how relevant it may be for a lot of users
14:17 < soundmodel> but it's there www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html
14:17 < soundmodel> it's just possibly incomplete
14:18 < eea> if only diffs/pr were allowed with openbsd official docs
14:19 < sibiria> soundmodel: you can produce an updated document and see if it's accepted
14:19 < soundmodel> will do
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15:05 < bob_x1> sibiria: thank you
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18:07 < monkeybusiness> \11
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18:36 < a1fa> o/
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20:10 < tommyrot> i see openbsd is getting amd microcode updates next release, that's nice
20:11 < sibiria> very nice. not a day too soon
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21:38 < pardis> but losing softdep :(
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22:04 < topcat001> pardis: what's that?
22:04 < topcat001> I must have missed it
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22:08 < pardis> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20230706044554
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22:14 < phy1729> If you're really curious https://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedings/usenix99/full_papers/mckusick/mckusick.pdf which has the nice side effect of convincing you they're rather involved.
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--- Log closed Sun Jul 23 00:00:02 2023