--- Log opened Fri Aug 04 00:00:30 2023
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00:50 < a1fa> test# ./MMDVMHost MMDVM.ini                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
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00:58 < wakaflaka> alix?
00:59 < wakaflaka> oh, nevermind
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01:00 < wakaflaka> i wish the operators here would chill out
01:01 < wakaflaka> and let people have normal conversations in here without the fear of being banned
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02:38 < d93> how do i get xclock to start when fvwm does?
02:42 < fro> just put xclock in your .xsession
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02:58 < d93> thanks 
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03:06 < a1fa> ez
03:13 < a1fa> hw.model=Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by AMD PCS ("AuthenticAMD" 586-class)
03:13 < a1fa> old's cool
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04:06 < dongdigua> hello, where's the original mail thread of "three line diff"
04:13 < fro> what
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04:21 < vortexx> a1fa: positively ancient lol
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04:22 < dongdigua> fro: the song https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#62
04:23 < pardis> given the description says this happened at a hackathon, why do you expect there to be a mail thread?
04:24 < fro> exactly what i was thinking
04:24 < fro> i mean i don't know either way
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04:49 < bob_x1> is there a tool that can help to change path pointed by symbolic link? like rename or something
04:49 < bob_x1> but which works with patterns 
04:59 < bob_x1> or I should implement it by myself with expansions in a script
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05:47 < vortexx> very curious, the source tarball for firefox 116 won't download in dpb...
05:51 < vortexx> size does not match <-- error. I guess the hashes don't match up or something
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10:56 < monkeybusiness> add
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11:15 < fifi> hey why is audio not recording on my laptpo?
11:15 < fifi> I use audacity and have got audio recording enabled in sysctl.conf
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11:21 < IcePic> fifi: perhaps you need to select which audio input to use (if multiple)
11:21 < fifi> there's onlt one recording device: default
11:22 < IcePic> the faq mentioned a few buttons to try: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq13.html#confaudio
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11:28 < fifi> ok tnx will have a look :)
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11:56 < fifi> Do I have to reboot the session after I make changes?
11:56 < fifi> into mixerctl
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12:09 < fifi> I tried aucat but still no audio, this is a mixerctl output, does something look wrong?
12:09 < fifi> https://paste.oddprotocol.org/odd/64ccea72760e4.html
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12:55 < z3bra> is it a bad idea to NOT use "set skip on { lo }" in pf.conf ?
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12:59 < z3bra> My initial need is to prevent a user from accessing network resources other than on specific ports listenning on lo0
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13:07 < a1fa> on a multiuser system, its ok
13:07 < a1fa> that's just a suggestion 
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13:31 < MaddieKalan> When I start my OpenBSD vm I can type stuff into the "boot: " prompt, but if I just let it boot into the installer, it wont let me type anything.  Any ideas on why this happens? I'm going to try to see if this is an issue on older versions of OpenBSD as well, I remember being able to install 7.0 a while ago so either its my system or newer versions of OpenBSD.
13:34 < MaddieKalan> Hmm weird.  But either way the keyboard shouldn't just suddenly break like that.
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13:37 < sibiria> MaddieKalan: add the line "set tty com0" to /etc/boot.conf and reboot
13:37 < sibiria> see what happens
13:38 < MaddieKalan> sibiria: This is the installer.
13:38 < sibiria> write the same on the boot prompt
13:38 < sibiria> then "boot"
13:39 < z3bra> a1fa, I'm afraid my ruleset would cause problems with services
13:39 < sibiria> you can also change the baud rate with "stty com0 <baud rate>" if your host needs something else than the default, whatever that is these days
13:39 < MaddieKalan> :O that did something, I guess I will beable to do the install now, thanks :)
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13:40 < a1fa> you should be fine
13:40 < sibiria> z3bra, a1fa: one or two things might croak
13:41 < sibiria> make sure to have a rule that allows all traffic that *isn't" from this or that group/user you want to lock down
13:41 < sibiria> as a facsimile for skipping lo*
13:41 < a1fa> i dont know of anything that depends on l0 in base
13:41 < MaddieKalan> This may be off topic but since when did OpenBSD start asking for if you want encrypted root partition? This is pretty cool.
13:41 < a1fa> MaddieKalan: 7.3
13:42 < MaddieKalan> What? That isn't in the changelog is it? I remember reading it, or was that 7.2? I skimmed the last half of the changelog so that may be why.
13:42 < z3bra> like, I have rules to "blacklist" all IPs connecting to unused ports. If 127.0.0.1 end up on this table I'm fucked
13:42 < sibiria> a1fa: some mail stuff might relay over tcp instead of socket or mail.local etc.
13:43 < sibiria> some time-keeping stuff might expect to do the same. using unwind locally is another case
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13:44 < a1fa> :thumbs_up
13:45 < sibiria> ::pufferfish with sunglasses emoji::
13:45 < MaddieKalan> Does OpenBSD install with only 256MB ram? I forgot to change it back, when I tought that might be some kind of buffer overflow.
13:46 < a1fa> MaddieKalan: yes
13:46 < MaddieKalan> Then I'll change it back after install.  I'm trying to prove a point lol.
13:46 < a1fa> # sysctl hw.physmem       
13:46 < a1fa> hw.physmem=267931648
13:46 < a1fa> works fine
13:46 < a1fa> dont expect miracles
13:46 < MaddieKalan> What do you mean, a1fa?
13:46 < sibiria> it's gonna be pretty starved when it comes to relinking kernel etc.
13:47 < dqk> i already installed openbsd on a thinkpad 380ed which have a pentium mmx 166 and 80 mb of ram, i think you'll be fine with 256mb
13:48 < MaddieKalan> I'm not thinking of if it will work amazingly, I just want to know if it technically could run smtpd, nsd, unbound and dovecot and httpd.
13:48 < thrig> email is porky if you have to add rspamd and what
13:49 < MaddieKalan> No rspamd.
13:49 < sibiria> dovecot can eat a bit. opensmtpd is much leaner (and in base)
13:49 < sibiria> oh nvm, you wanted imap/pop3
13:49 < MaddieKalan> I hate rspamd, I only use it for DKIM, there is probably a better solution (DMs are open, I want to get rid of it).
13:49 < MaddieKalan> sibiria: I want pop3 only. I think there is a pop3 server implementation out there.
13:50 < sibiria> there is a tiny one in ports. popa3d or apop3d, i forget which
13:50 < sibiria> and opensmtpd has dkim module
13:50 < MaddieKalan> Is this a bad sign? "fatal protection fault in supervisor mode"
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13:51 < sibiria> opensmtpd-filter-dkimsign is what you're looking for
13:51 < MaddieKalan> sibiria: I remember haveing *some* issue with the dkim module, just not what it is.  Can you link to the pop3 implementation? I currently don't have OpenBSD installed on any system, however someone said something a moment ago that makes me think it may be great to install on my 32bit laptop.
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13:52 < MaddieKalan> My install has been stuck like this for a while now https://emailaffinity.top/~mk/files/a.a do you want/need full logs to debug?
13:53 < sibiria> MaddieKalan: they are called "pop3d" and "popa3d" two different but both tiny and lean pop3 daemons. you can find details in https://github.com/openbsd/ports
13:53 < sibiria> no idea if they are still under development or if it's abandonware
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13:54 < z3bra> that's odd, "pass in quick on lo" and "set skip on lo" do not have the same effect
13:55 < sibiria> z3bra: remove "in" on the pass rule
13:55 < sibiria> else it's just IN, not also OUT
13:55 < z3bra> indeed, nice catch
13:56 < jf> z3bra the skip tells pf to stop evaluating rules on the interface. the pass in quick is a rule. if you are wanting to limit local (ie logged in) user access, you can do that. see the "user" directive in the "PACKET FILTERING" section of pf.conf
13:57 < z3bra> jf, yeah that's what I use
13:57 < z3bra> but I must remove the "set skip on lo" for it to work. And if I do that, I need a replacement rule for lo to allow most of the traffic
13:58 < jf> "pass on lo0" before other lo0 rules.
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14:00 < sibiria> MaddieKalan: i'm not aware of any problems with it, from having used it for about a year. though it only SIGNS, it doesn't offer verification. the author has a verification module as well which works fine in my experience, but needs to be built manually as it's not packaged yet
14:00 < z3bra> nah I can't do that, because afterwards I have rules for adding offenders to a "<bruteforce>" table, so I might blacklist 127.0.0.1
14:00 < MaddieKalan> I did the install again from scratch but without encryption now this is the error... https://emailaffinity.top/~mk/files/b.a
14:00 < jf> I usually lay out pf.conf with a "drop on" for an interface (or interface group), then add explicit "pass quick" rules. that way i get default "drop" and "pass" for things I want
14:01 < z3bra> yeah that's the classic "first match stops evaluation" way of firewalling
14:02 < sibiria> MaddieKalan: your other alternative is dkimproxy which does both, but is a little bit clumsier solution
14:02 < MaddieKalan> sibiria: "signs"? Are you talking about the dkim (openbsd module) or the pop3 implementation? For DKIM: I don't care about dkim, other people are the ones who care, so I don't actually check for signatures. For pop3: no idea what you're talking about.
14:02 < z3bra> but my setup is more complex than that, so I use the traditional way of pf to handle it (last match wins)
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14:02 < sibiria> MaddieKalan: dkim
14:02 < sibiria> oh, well if you don't care about signing or verifying inbound signatures then forget what i said
14:03 < MaddieKalan> sibiria: No I want to sign them, I just don't want to verify them.
14:04 < jf> great. do what works. i've been at this since iptables was briefly in the kernel - it's interesting to hear references to pf tradition ;)
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14:04 < sibiria> opensmtpd-filter-dkimsign, or dkimproxy, then. the former is my preferred solution
14:05 < z3bra> by "tradition" I mean the way it works by default
14:06 < z3bra> I'm a total newbie on the pf field so I can't really say I stick to "traditions" indeed
14:06 < MaddieKalan> What is the very smallest disk I need to install OpenBSD? I was told 1GB was fine.
14:06 < MaddieKalan> > https://emailaffinity.top/~mk/files/c.a
14:07 < sibiria> 1gb seems to be fine for i386 target. it's not for amd64, where you need 2gb at the very least and that's still gonna be a tight install
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14:08 < sibiria> on amd64 /usr alone is 1.6gb (with X packages, which you should install to save yourself hassle)
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14:09 < MaddieKalan> sibiria: Why would I need X packages for a server?
14:09 < sibiria> you don't, but unfortunately the developers decided that they belong to the base system
14:09 < sibiria> so opting out of them forces you into a bit of hassle during certain updates
14:09 < jf> (i can't type this morning. ipfilter. need more coffee)
14:09 < sibiria> additionally there are a few packages that might need stuff from X to do e.g. text rendering (into images or similar)
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14:10 < sibiria> unless you use X, the X packages are inert and do nothing but occupy ~350 mb space, so just install them and move on
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14:11 < MaddieKalan> sibiria: I'm attempting to do a bare bones install.
14:11 < jf> sibiria +1 for filter-dkimsign 
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14:12 < MaddieKalan> Not production grade, just to prove its possible.
14:12 < MaddieKalan> Now I see it wont even install with 2GB.
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14:12 < sibiria> i personally use 5gb disk as the minimum requirement
14:12 < sibiria> when setting up test VMs etc.
14:12 < sibiria> 5gb disk, 1gb ram
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14:19 < sibiria> 2gb *should* work for amd64, just barely, if you don't use the default disklabels and just go for a single / file system
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14:19 < sibiria> though that's not recommended
14:23 < MaddieKalan> It doesn't work. Then I tried 3, then 4, then 5 and now I'm trying 5 again, this is annoying something else must be interfering.  Yes I know its not recommended.
14:23 < sibiria> are you using the default disklabels? they are finicky
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14:24 < MaddieKalan> No, I'm useing custom layout where the entire disk is /
14:25 < MaddieKalan> Just to see if its the disk size or something else, I'm gonna try a regular 20gb one now.
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14:27 < MaddieKalan> Its not me, its the system.
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14:28 < sibiria> i suspect it is you after all. i have several installs on just 5gb. i'm sure i could get one going on just 3
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14:29 < MaddieKalan> https://emailaffinity.top/~mk/files/d.a
14:30 < MaddieKalan> sibiria: Go a head, see for your self, I'm a bit... I don't know, I hate when things that should work, don't and then you look at it for so long and keep telling yourself it should go but why dosn't it?
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14:32 < MaddieKalan> Whta is the hash sum for install73.iso? Maby its corupted?
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14:34 < MaddieKalan> If https://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.3/amd64/SHA256 is to be belived, its not corupted.
14:34 < sibiria> are you perhaps accidentally trying to install onto the installation medium
14:34 < jf> MaddieKalan looks like you've triggered the QEMU bugs with that VM. What is it?
14:34 < sibiria> i don't need to see for myself - i have several installations on just 5gb disks
14:34 < sibiria> i know it works
14:35 < MaddieKalan> jf: What is what?
14:36 < jf> well, you are running inside a QEMU vm and hitting an odd bug in QEMU. try reconfiguring the VM to emulate sata (not ide) for the CD and for the disk.
14:37 < MaddieKalan> jf: I'll try to use sata for both.  But for the record I used the default option.
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14:42 < pardis> how did you get from "fatal protection fault in supervisor mode" to "my disk isn't big enough"?
14:47 < MaddieKalan> That install went smoothly.  I guess it must be something with the IDE implementation of either QEMU or OpenBSD.
14:50 < oldlaptop> the Occam's razor explanation is a qemu bug.
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14:59 < pardis> do you have a deep, pressing desire to avoid virtio?
15:06 < MaddieKalan> LOL.
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18:35 < dfdx> Hi #openbsd. On my Gentoo machine I can open a terminal and, using bash, run $ echo -e "\U0001fae4"  and the result is an emoji. I then ssh into my OpenBSD machine. I know echo on OpenBSD does not have the -e flag to interpret backslash escapes. Is there any way to print emojis in the terminal? 
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18:37 < schillingklaus> is this echo a builtin of bash or a system command?
18:38 < Erhard> printf ?
18:38 < sibiria> openbsd printf doesn't know \U
18:38 < Erhard> Ah
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18:41 < schillingklaus> the virtual console cannot display unicode characters,, anyways
18:42 < pardis> that is unlikely to affect ssh
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18:42 < pardis> dfdx: perl -E 'use open ":std", ":encoding(UTF-8)"; print chr(0x1fae4)'
18:43 < pardis> alternative: printf '\360\237\253\244'
18:44 < sibiria> can printf utf8 in hex also. a bit easier conversion
18:44 < sibiria> \xf0\x..\x..\x.. etc.
18:45 < pardis> you can write the perl a bit more nicely if you have your local set up for utf8, too
18:45 < pardis> perl -Mopen=locale -E 'print chr(0x1fae4)'
18:45 < sibiria> printf '\xf0\x9f\xab\xa4'
18:45 < pardis> (arguably, you should not be printing utf8 at all if you *don't* have a utf8 locale, but the first perl command I gave should work even in that case)
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18:50 < dfdx> pardis: that perl one-liner worked!!
18:50 < dfdx> thank you. for some strange reason, though, it does not work within tmux. hmm... 
18:51 < schillingklaus> python can probably do something similar
18:51 < dfdx> of course it can. but perl was first. :)
18:54 < sibiria> python too heavy and too slow choice for it, imo
18:54 < sibiria> bloated interpreter
18:54 < sibiria> also it's not in base!
18:56 < afresh1> `perl -C -E 'say chr(0x1fae4)'  
18:56 < afresh1> works in my tmux
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19:05 < uwharrie> can also: 'say "\N{FACE WITH DIAGONAL MOUTH}"'
19:07 < thrig> that's worse for golf
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19:09 < pardis> dfdx: see my comments about your locale
19:09 < pardis> I suspect your tmux is running in a non-UTF-8 locale
19:10 < pardis> afresh1: thanks, I didn't know about -C
19:11 < thrig> tmux -u could force UTF-8ness
19:11 < afresh1> I do have LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8
19:11 < afresh1> in the output from locale(1)
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19:44 < stolen> Can i live boot openbsd cli ?
19:45 < uwharrie> it's possible, but what's your end goal?
19:45 < sibiria> stolen: https://fuguita.org/
19:46 < stolen> only to use vim and clang
19:46 < uwharrie> vim doesn't come pre-installed
19:47 < stolen> oh !! nano ?
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19:47 < uwharrie> no nano either
19:47 < schillingklaus> openbsd vi is vastly sufficient for sysadmin and configurationfile writing tasks
19:47 < uwharrie> it's got ed, nvi, and mg
19:48 < thrig> and echo
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19:49 < sibiria> and if it's a Proper(tm) installation it also has fortune(6) and hack(6)
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19:50 < schillingklaus> of course, vim is available in teh ports, as is GNU emacs, nano, and others. but ports are out of question for a live disk, aren't they?
19:50 < se1> 186,282 miles per second: It isn't just a good idea, it's the law!
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19:51 < dfdx> pardis: I changed my locale to LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8. That, combined with running "tmux -u", means that now emojis work in tmux aswell. Thanks!! :)
19:51 < schillingklaus> I am the only one who still plays bsd games, such as hangman
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19:53 < stolen> what is the cli OS with vim and C compiler then and minimum other things ? I was refered to openBSD
19:54 < uwharrie> any of them?
19:55 < uwharrie> you've got a pile of odd sounding requirements but no stated goals, so it's tough to figure out what exactly you want or need
19:55 < schillingklaus> most people are not able to tell vim from vi 
19:56 < Bradipo> Really?
19:56 < Bradipo> Depends on which "vi" you mean.
19:57 < Bradipo> Most people are quite taken aback when they try to use arrow keys in edit mode in vi and discover that they get a bunch of control and escape characters dumped into their text.
19:57 < Bradipo> Now, OpenBSD's vi apparently does have arrow key support, but I've never used it.
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20:01 < schillingklaus> this distinguishes openbsd vi from netbsd vi
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20:04 < Bradipo> Does netbsd vi behave more like a traditional vi?
20:04 < thrig> (my OpenBSD vi removes arrow key support)
20:05 < Bradipo> I'm actually surprised that OpenBSD's vi has any arrow key support.
20:05 < thrig> also, removing arrow key support surfaced a segfault
20:05 < Bradipo> I always thought it didn't have it, but then, I never use them anyway.  I just use the appropriate vi mode and use hjkl
20:06 < schillingklaus> no support for arrow keys is traditional vi behaviour
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21:20 < topcat001> the reliance on arrow keys is disturbing
21:22 < Bradipo> Haha, well, you typically find it where the user has been in the GUI editor world for a long time.
21:26 < topcat001> Didn't the original mac have no arrow keys? :)
21:28 < oldlaptop> or just the "editor that isn't vi" world
21:28 < tommyrot> or just the "vi supports it so why not use it" world
21:30 < Bradipo> How many editors outside of "vi" have "modes"?
21:31 < Bradipo> I suppose vi never really needed arrow keys because of the distinction between editing mode and command mode, and ex mode.
21:32 < Bradipo> Not only that, maybe I want the characters produced by pressing an error key in my text file.
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21:39 < topcat001> I grew up using traditional vi on a VT100 in uni so never got used to arrow keys lol
21:41 < topcat001> (managed to skip the Windows stuff entirely and went straight to unix-like on PCs)
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21:55 < pardis> I use arrow keys even in vi
21:55 < pardis> apparently the hjkl thing originated just because those keys had arrows on them on Bill Joy's keyboard in 1978
21:55 < pardis> if he'd had separate arrow keys, he would have used those
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22:05 < thrig> otoh, moving hands off the home row is slow
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22:17 < Bradipo> I don't use arrow keys because it means moving my hands off of the keyboard onto some other place.
22:17 < Bradipo> In this case, hjkl is preferable because I don't have to move the position of my hand.
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22:37 < pardis> sure, I'm not saying using hjkl is bad
22:37 < pardis> just saying there's nothing wrong with a preference for arrow keys
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22:39 < Bradipo> Right, nothing wrong with it, it's just a preference.
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 05 00:00:32 2023