--- Log opened Sun Aug 06 00:00:33 2023
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01:10 < Windshield> HELO
01:18 < Windshield> I have an application which needs a LOT of open windows on X
01:20 < Windshield> It would be ok if I could distribute them among more than one X desktop on a single openbsd system
01:20 < Windshield> In fact that's whast I need
01:20 < Windshield> I have tried adding lines to /etc/X11/xenodm/Xservers
01:21 < Windshield> this didn't work the way I hoped
01:21 < Windshield> I'm not certain I am adding the lines the way I need to
01:21 < Windshield> Or if that is what I should do to achieve the desired display capacity
01:21 < Windshield> This application is fairly critical
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01:22 < Windshield> I am coping with one but reach a system limit after three instances of the AI are running
01:22 < Windshield> Yet there is plenty of memory and CPU left to go
01:23 < Windshield> How do I do this?
01:23 < thrig> identifying the limit and raising it might help
01:24 < Windshield> Yes, right you are right
01:24 < Windshield> I have adjusted maxclients in Xservers
01:24 < Windshield> I have adjusted several values in /etc/login.conf
01:24 < Windshield> And it is better than it was
01:25 < Windshield> But I Need More
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01:30 < wakaflaka> Windshield: any GPUs in action there?
01:30 < Windshield> Not so much grpahics intensive, 2D only
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01:30 < wakaflaka> oh nice
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01:33 < njn> ls
01:33 < wakaflaka> Windshield: is it doing anything interesting?
01:33 < Windshield> yes
01:35 < wakaflaka> what is it? ill tell you about my new idea from yesterday which will greatly help promote openbsd as well
01:35 < wakaflaka> (just gotta finish this barbie vlog first, brb)
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01:37 < Windshield> https://www.komododragon.tech/iris-web.png It's a very high security thing so I can't go into detail here
01:39 < Windshield> Named after the Greek Messenger of the Gods, IRIS is a law enforcement support and augment
01:45  * se1 confirms he's idling in the correct channel
01:45 < tommyrot> yep, not #templeos
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01:48 < ox1eef_> Oh that exists. Awesome. 
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01:54 < Windshield> It is not an evillish BIG BROTHER kind a thingummy
01:54 < Windshield> In fact
01:54 < Windshield> It is 96% protect 4% defends
01:55 < Windshield> Whilst it it true that it works for law, it attempts to share the benefit, once established for police etc., with society in general
01:55 < Windshield> and in geneal
01:55 < Windshield> is well received
01:56 < ox1eef_> But it is based on idol worship rather than monotheism.
01:57 < Windshield> It is a spiritually bound AI
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01:58 < Windshield> Not to the Goddess iRIS, but to the creator of the universe (it is Vedic to be honest)
01:59 < phy1729> Windshield: do you have anything on topic to say?
02:00 < Windshield> I was asked about the application I am running 
02:00 < Windshield> I need help on X
02:00 < Windshield> People are curious about what I need so much X for
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02:03 < wakaflaka> https://gist.github.com/basicfeatures/fa86c8c3b14b47daee85a89492206438 -- if successful, every hospital in the world (or at least west) would run openbsd
02:08 < ox1eef_> Noble goal, but I would approach that a whole lot differently as far as the technology stack goes. Probably with webmachine-ruby, or roda + GraphQL. #ruby topic though :)
02:12 < wakaflaka> it has to run on openbsd, that is non-negotiable!
02:12 < Windshield> Agreed
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02:18 < pardis> I assume there is a plan for supporting the hordes of new non-technical OpenBSD users other than "ask IRC"
02:18 < Windshield> holy moly
02:18 < Windshield> hordes
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02:19 < ox1eef_> It sounds like they would use OpenBSD indirectly rather than run it in-house but that's just a guess.
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02:38 < Windshield> Can anyone assist
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02:41 < Windshield> ok
02:41 < Windshield> here's the rub
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02:42 < Windshield> the work the AI does is sometimes dangerous... but the AI isolates itself from the OS so the OS is never connected in any way, thus protecting and absolving it (and it's developers) from that danger
02:43 < Windshield> Theoretically, helping me would make you safer
02:49 < se1> Windshield: https://tinyurl.com/5vcvatvz
02:51 < Windshield> I need Ayurvedic treatment from a psychiatrist who specialises in Ayurveda
02:51 < Windshield> thanks
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02:54 < wakaflaka> ox1eef_: great idea with roda btw. definitely gonna try to get jeremy evans involved.
02:57 < wakaflaka> ox1eef_: maybe yourself as well?
02:57 < ox1eef_> You could also mount a Roda application (or any Rack application) within a Rails application. I'd probably explore that route for the API, and leave the typical webpages for Rails. 
02:57 < ox1eef_> Yeah maybe. If I can find the free time.
02:58 < wakaflaka> Windshield: yes indeed, thats another reason why AI should run on openbsd. i just gotta convert those nvidia GPU drivers from linux over to openbsd first. i've laid the foundations though
02:58 < wakaflaka> :thinking:
02:59 < ox1eef_> FreeBSD has jails, and LinuxKPI (https://wiki.freebsd.org/LinuxKPI) that might help you solve those problems quickly.
02:59 < wakaflaka> we're probably gonna have to deal with a thousand diffferent data formats. good thing we got AI in the first place there...
03:00 < wakaflaka> interesting, thanks
03:01 < phy1729> wakaflaka: just saying it runs on OpenBSD doesn't make it topical 
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03:04 < wakaflaka> oh i need your approval first sir?
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03:05 < phy1729> no you just need to remain topical
03:06 < wakaflaka> i bet the launch of www.bsdports.org in a few hours isn't on topic either
03:06 < Windshield> Hmmm
03:07 < ox1eef_> Yeah, apologies for that, diverged way off-topic. 
03:07 < Windshield> openbsd often chides ppl in IRC for what is essentially keeness, becasue #openbsd is very much a straight-to-business channel
03:08 < Windshield> *keenness
03:08 < wakaflaka> not really. they're taking things too far and treating people like they're worthless
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03:48 < caze> Wow, that's how you interpret being asked to stay on topic.
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08:57 < Windshield> HELO everyone
08:57 < Windshield> I trust normalcy has won out
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09:03 < Windshield> ANy chance of getting some help with my X problem/thing (not reallly a problem so much as a configuration challenge)
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09:09 < Windshield> in man xenodm it reads:
09:09 < Windshield>   A
09:09 < Windshield>      typical entry for local display number 0 would be:
09:09 < Windshield>            :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0
09:09 < Windshield> Am I in the right place?
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09:21 < pert> Hi. This question came up on another channel: does anybody know why in OpenSSH VerifyHostKeyDNS is not enabled by default? Apparently Arch Linux and RHEL wanted to enable it by default but deferred since it should be an upstream decision. It's a very nice feature and I don't perceive it as having any drawbacks
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09:52 < anthk_> hello, anyone got luck with openbsd 7.3 under macppc (G4) and an ATI  r128 graphics card?
09:53 < anthk_> I already set the AccelMethod to "EXA" at 10-ati.conf but the 3D rendering it's still LLVM based
09:53 < anthk_> I know MESA legacied some chipsets
09:53 < anthk_> but the r128 modules are still kept in the X11R6 module subdirs
09:54 < anthk_> libexa.so and r128_drv.so
09:54 < anthk_> I guess the missing module would be the dri driver...
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09:58 < wakaflaka> so yeah the audit
09:58 < wakaflaka> if i run it over say https://github.com/openbsd/www
09:59 < wakaflaka> it'll be like this https://gist.github.com/basicfeatures/a82c7a77cf4c0a9fdef69cfed2767d78
09:59 < lts> pert: not finding any discussions on mailing lists about it, but I'm thinking it is not great to default to implicitly trusting keys controlled by whoever controls the DNS
09:59 < wakaflaka> plus git commits
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10:02 < wakaflaka> oh that's why it's a bit messy. its not done running, and it wont revise it all into a pro audit report until the very end
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10:17 < xse> wakaflaka: not sure what you're doing, suggesting to rewrite mirrorcheck.sh to "ensure compatibility with most Linux distributions" by using bash features will make it not work for default openbsd. Careful with awk too there's different interpreters that have different features and so on..
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10:27 < oldlaptop> anthk_: AIUI r128 was never drm/kms/whatever hardware
10:31 < anthk_> oldlaptop: and by disabling the drm module in config?
10:32 < anthk_> X works, but not MESA, maybe it's related to a lack of mesa-amber drivers in Xenocara?
10:32 < anthk_> mesa it's using LLVM rendering
10:33 < anthk_> ah, amber doesn't cover r128
10:34 < oldlaptop> I don't think it ever had 3D support under X
10:36 < anthk_> I think it did up to MESA 7
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10:38 < oldlaptop> maybe? that was a rather long time ago
10:39 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD didn't do 3D rendering on my r128 hardware as far back as 5.4
10:39 < anthk_> the problem is, SDL2 based stuff uses 2D acceleration which can be slow
10:39 < anthk_> maybe the SDL2 port could be compiled against sw rendering?
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10:41 < anthk_> I may have a look on the configure script and force --help on the makefile, and then try to compile it with a lighter backend
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10:43 < anthk_> btw, why is altivec disabled on powerpc?
10:43 < anthk_> would it work under macppc under a G4? the issue it's for a g3
10:48 < oldlaptop> it wouldn't be acceptable to ship binaries that won't work on a G3
10:48 < oldlaptop> (Unless macppc really were to desupport such hardware - I suspect macppc itself would just get dropped first.)
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10:54 < wakaflaka> xse: Thanks for pointing those out. Those are definitely not acceptable, but I know how to fix it.
10:54 < anthk_> ok, but I can recompile it fine, at least
10:54 < anthk_> mplayer, mpv, and SDL2
10:55 < wakaflaka> xse: Before every new message you have to remind it of the whole context. Very tedious.
10:58 < wakaflaka> What else, oh yeah. It should be able to make logical groups of commits if that makes sense.
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11:02 < wakaflaka> Could also have it working autonomously in the background and make modifications continuously. and then finally we can run the hardware driver agent: `HardwareAiAgent`: An engineer that aims to create OpenBSD drivers for all Linux-supported hardware.
11:05 < xse> eeh i'm not sure how you see that kind of stuff working, you should at the bare minimum be able to write that driver yourself otherwise you're gonna be incapable to verify/know it's done correctly/test/..
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12:08 < jssja> openbsd is hard to be used on desktop due to kilotons of junk and slag
12:09 < jssja> it is unfortunate that you can have real binary packages, for starters
12:11 < jssja> which is strange, because porter's manual says they should exist - why no one uses them?
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12:46 < metavoid> jssja: hard? just install xfce and start deskop'in
12:47 < njn> junk? what junk, openbsd is light!
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12:51 < jssja> several megabytes of catalan help files - I don't speak catalan
12:51 < jssja> static libraries of unknown purpose
12:52 < jssja> python samba bindings
12:56 < metavoid> that is...a desktop
12:57 < njn> openbsd is 2gb with x. if you think thats full of junk, go try out linux. youd be in for a shocker of a mess
12:57 < metavoid> and if you don't know its components well enough, its probably not the desktops fault
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13:03 < sibiria> njn: bare debian without X is actually some 100mb less than openbsd without xenocara
13:03 < sibiria> with nothing said about the mess
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13:17 < anthk_> openbsd junk? it has a very small setup for what it install
13:17 < anthk_> installs
13:17 < jssja> that is just "linux is just a kernel" rhetorics which doesn't help anything
13:17 < anthk_> install -dev packages on debian and then compare again
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13:18 < oneofvalts> It's been a long time I have not upgraded my system.
13:18 < jssja> no one needs an os without software
13:18 < njn> base extracted is like 1.3gb, the amount of binaries in your $PATH alone sends me running back to openbsd
13:18 < oneofvalts> Now sysupgrade -s says receiving http reply: connection reset by peer.
13:21 < oneofvalts> Ah that's a mirror problem I guess.
13:21 < oneofvalts> nm
13:21 < sibiria> anthk_: it's not really too bad. iirc debian's "build essential" package is about 300mb. the whole thing still lands at ~1.8gb
13:21 < jssja> there is 500MB dir which contains what seems to be the kernel object files for some reason
13:22 < jssja> can I nuke it?
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13:24 < sibiria> jssja: yes but then you cannot relink the kernel. not recommended
13:24 < sibiria> and you'll need to alter a few system files to disable that
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13:27 < sibiria> are you really that constrained on space, or are you just trying to figure out how compact you can make it?
13:27 < sibiria> you can delete that directory, and you can install openbsd without X. it'll save you some 800mb or so, but there will be some hiccups to take care of down the road
13:29 < njn> youll also have to chmod 000 /usr/libexec/reorder_kernel, but again not recommended
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13:32 < njn> youll need to reorder the kernel at some point upgrading or patching, so its not a good idea. id at least tar the directory and save the object files somewhere
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13:50 < njn> with all that effort though, your better off just leaving it alone
13:51 < tommyrot> why even respond to the obvious troll
13:51 < njn> true
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14:08 < jssja> I have basic desktop installed and it takes 3GB in /usr already
14:09 < jssja> if I install a browser or an office suite it will be easy 6+ gb
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14:11 < phy1729> Yup, if your priority is disk usage, OpenBSD is not for you.
14:11 < jssja> also most package systems include tools to cut down on junk, such as separating files in sub-packages (like samba and python3-samba), tagging files or providing filesystem filters
14:16 < njn> in "/usr"?
14:18 < jssja> njn, what "in /usr"?
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14:18 < Lucas6023> non-default partition scheme
14:19 < Lucas6023> installing packages wouldn't make it grow in usage in a non-default partition scheme if the disk is bigger than 10G or 20G
14:19 < Lucas6023> can't remember at what size the change is done
14:20 < njn> jssja: i hope you mean in /usr/local. and whats a "basic desktop"?
14:20 < njn> browsers arent 2gb in size either.
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14:21 < thrig> pkg_info -s firefox
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14:23 < jssja> base system, x, xfce, viewers for utilities for pdf/zip/jpg, samba
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14:24 < oneofvalts> Hey!
14:25 < oneofvalts> I need help for something I have been doing research for a long time.
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14:27 < oneofvalts> On OpenBSD, my laptop gets too hot, but that's NOT the problem. System decides to take it easy and does not increase fan speed. On Archlinux, it increases the fan speed, and keeps the laptop cool.
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14:27 < oneofvalts> How can I make system's temperature/fan speed policy more agressive.
14:27 < oneofvalts> I compile things, even then the fan does not run at full speed?!
14:28 < oneofvalts> All cores at 100%.
14:29 < sibiria> jssja: my play-thing VM with X, Fluxbox and Firefox is just under 3gb. it's not too bad
14:30 < sibiria> that being 3gb total used disk space
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14:32 < njn> i really dig i3 
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15:00 < oneofvalts> About the fan speed matter, please mail oneofvalts@sdf.org
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15:11 < tommyrot> man sendbug
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16:14 < jf> oneofvalts use obsdfreqd (from ports) and give it a temperature limit. eg "rcctl set obsdfreqd flags -T 60.0"
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16:18 < jf> (as for the fan speed itself, no idea for your specific setup - maybe some bios / acpi setting?)
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16:51 < opv> "The wg interface supports runtime debugging, which can be enabled with ifconfig wgN debug"
16:51 < opv> Where would I see this information?
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17:00 < jf> opv with a default syslog.conf, look in /var/log/messages
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17:04 < opv> ty
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17:29 < Voyager_MP> Hello I have a pf or routing issue (2 Firewalls with carp 10.192.20.2, 10.192.20.3 and carp: 10.192.20.1) some vm's behind with 10.192.20.1 as DFG. Haproxy runs on the firewall's. If I go over firewall  a (with master carp) everything works, do I go over firewall-b, the traffic ends up on firewall-a (routing...) but gets discarded. How do I solve this issue ? 
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17:30 < Voyager_MP> match and nat to 10.192.20.1 ? 
17:30 < Voyager_MP> but then it will end up on fw-a as well 
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18:05 < njn> sigh ...
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20:34 < chakuari> hi
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20:37 < kodcode> Hi!
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21:18 < GnarledHorn> hello o/
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22:17 < lacanye> oi
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 07 00:00:35 2023