--- Log opened Mon Aug 14 00:00:44 2023
--- Day changed Mon Aug 14 2023
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00:31 < njn> blows my mind intel makes 32+ core cpus
00:32 < thrig> it ain't the 90s no more where you could double the clock every 9 months or so
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00:38 < njn> i must be stuck in the stoneage, because i dont even think a 4th or 5th gen 4 core is all that slow combined with an ssd
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00:39 < njn> even a handfull of other pcs i have are only 2 cores
00:41 < oldlaptop> Not all that many 'home user' workloads scale particularly well with more CPUs
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00:42 < apotheon> Basically, to me it seems like the fact it's getting harder to get some kind of performance doubling just gives us a chance to force software devs to start thinking about how to do more with less again, instead of just blatantly dumping giant loads of pointless shit code into a system to fill up its performance capabilities.
00:42 < apotheon> Wouldn't it be nice to do MORE with the performance of a system, instead of increasing performance and using it all for garbage?
00:43 < thrig> jevon's paradox comes to mind
00:43 < apotheon> I remember when I first laid eyes on a Windows Vista computer.  It was a high-end display-model laptop in a store.  I walked over to it to see how it was to use.  It had a tachometer-dial kinda thing on the screen showing CPU usage.
00:44 < apotheon> I moved the touchpad to move the mouse across the screen, to get to the Windows menu, and that simple act pegged the CPU meter at 100%.
00:44 < apotheon> I walked away.
00:44 < apotheon> thrig: indeed
00:44 < oldlaptop> they kind of got ahead of that performance-doubling stuff
00:45 < apotheon> no shit
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00:45 < apotheon> Microsoft was at forefront of performance waste for a long damned time.
00:46 < apotheon> I don't even know if it still dominates in that manner, now.  I don't touch the stuff.
00:46 < thrig> I guess they have competition from electron?
00:46 < apotheon> I like the sparseness of OpenBSD.  I fill it only as much as I want to fill it.
00:46 < apotheon> thrig: Microsoft uses Electron, too, so I guess there's that.
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00:47 < njn> i guess still the case
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00:52 < njn> id rather have kernel security
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00:53 < thrig> put the corn in a bank vault and toss it down a deep sea trench
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01:01 < njn> just dreaming is all 
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01:13 < njn> linux isnt much better 
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01:18 < tux0r> linux is bad.
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01:19 < thrig> all software is bad! (some just sucks less)
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01:53 < brocashelm> systemd/linux
01:54 < brocashelm> too bad that more wayland is going to get in openbsd
01:54 < brocashelm> that's something i'm not a fan of, at all
01:55 < brocashelm> it targets linux systems
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02:01 < martian67> brocashelm: there is no viable alternative
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15:52 < GnarledHorn> Hello everyone! Hope you're all having an excellent start to the week
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16:25 < thrig> what if the week started on Sunday
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16:40 < quinq> thrig, that would be barbarian
16:41 < thrig> I do recall being dragged to church on saturday a lot, growing up
16:43 < quinq> lo siento ;_;
16:44 < thrig> because see in Pakistan the week runs Sunday-Thursday
16:45 < quinq> Like default USNA calendar
16:46 < thrig> other places have it rougher, where you have friday and sunday off but work saturday
16:49 < quinq> haha
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19:29 < GnarledHorn> I have a little fanless computer I'd like to install on a customer site to provide remote access. I was thinking of having a process that connects to a VPS server and provides a reverse SSH tunnel. Are there better ways I should do this? I have complete control over the remote access computer and the VPS machine. 
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19:30 < GnarledHorn> The customer site is regular commercial internet service behind NAT, running on cable
19:31 < aaronm04> Wireguard maybe?
19:32 < Erhard> Do you need access only to the single remote box, or the network?
19:33 < GnarledHorn> I'm familiar with wireguard only as much as I know it's a vpn enabler. Making connections in through the NAT would be doable? I'm not sure I have credentials for their ISP provided equipment
19:33 < Erhard> If just the one box then just ssh into it. If the network, then, yeah, wireguard
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19:33 < GnarledHorn> Erhard: To my box, from there maybe others. I can probably configure the customer-provided networking gear (a switch) as needed
19:34 < GnarledHorn> Definitely other machines, actually. I'd need to access their NAS web UI for instance, or one of their app servers
19:34 < Erhard> Then you could make a tunnel (vpn) with wireguard
19:35 < Erhard> Or just forward specific ports with ssh if you want
19:35 < Erhard> But do you have WAN access to your machine?
19:35 < Erhard> (internet)
19:35 < GnarledHorn> Erhard: I'll read up on wireguard and setup a prototype. It seems less of a hack than just reverse SSH
19:36 < thrig> DNS and HTTP over SSH is something of a hack
19:36 < GnarledHorn> Their entire network is behind the ISP-provided cable modem, which I don't think anyone has credentials for (they have no IT personnel here)
19:36 < GnarledHorn> So it can reach out, but I wouldn't be able to address it from the outside to initiate any connections
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19:38 < Bradipo> GnarledHorn: I've done reverse SSH tunnels before in this manner, it can work.
19:39 < Bradipo> You basically have to create an SSH "service" that will automatically reconnect if the connection drops.
19:39 < GnarledHorn> Bradipo: I've done exactly that in another situation before. Hence it being my "go to" idea
19:39 < Erhard> maybe autossh ? I have never used it though
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19:40 < Erhard> Thought wireguard may prove easier if you need a bunch of resources on the remote LAN end
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19:40 < Bradipo> You can setup a tun device with SSH.
19:41 < Bradipo> I've done that.  You can route over it just as well as wireguard, but it's not as performant.
19:41 < Erhard> Then that might be easier, since wireguard networking is a bit of a pain sometimes. 
19:42 < Erhard> You have to understand AllowedIPS
19:42 < GnarledHorn> Erhard: I can only think of two resources on the remote side. The use-case I can clearly see is tunneling my port 80 traffic from localhost:something to their NAS via the remote access machine
19:42 < Erhard> Just a comple tunnels could be ssh port forwarding.
19:43 < Erhard> couple
19:43 < GnarledHorn> So I can do very basic things like seeing if they have a disk failing or pulling a snapshot, etc, without driving 45 minutes to their office
19:43 < Erhard> If you do go the wireguard route make sure you understand this: https://www.procustodibus.com/blog/2021/03/wireguard-allowedips-calculator/
19:44 < Erhard> Because it does some routing of its own you need to grok
19:45 < Erhard> Combine that info with the same topic from the WG docs for a pretty decent picture
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19:59 < GnarledHorn> Looks like I may be able to use "PersistentKeepAlive" with a Peer to keep the NAT working
19:59 < thrig> networks are clever at ensuring that things break in strange ways
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20:03 < GnarledHorn> that's the truth!
20:05 < Bradipo> My SSH tunnel was fairly resilient to network breakage (utilizing ServerAliveInterval and ServerAliveCountMax).
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20:05 < Bradipo> This would ensure that if the SSH tunnel hung, the SSH client would timeout the connection, and being the process of reestablishing the connection.
20:08 < Bradipo> In one case, I set it up so that the tunnel would open "on demand".
20:08 < Bradipo> So that it wasn't "always on", but only on when desired.
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20:14 < Bradipo> This was accomplished by having the tunnel "service" send out a probe via HTTPS to see if a remote resource existed.  Once that resource existed, it would attempt to establish the SSH tunnel.
20:15 < Bradipo> Of course, the one flaw in this is that if the remote resource never exists, then the SSH tunnel will never come up---that's kind of by design though in this particular instance.
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20:27 < GnarledHorn> Note that I'm not the guy on misc@ asking about wireguard. Coincidence only
20:27 < pardis> a likely story
20:28 < GnarledHorn> Looking at the bigger picture, wireguard is a good fit for my situation anyway. I have several other machines that like to talk to the VPS machine 
20:28 < GnarledHorn> pardis: :P
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20:30 < typicat> GnarledHorn, looked at tailscale? (built upon wireguard)
20:31 < GnarledHorn> I haven't
20:32 < leah> i'm super bored, so i made an openbsd meme
20:33 < leah> https://mas.to/@libreleah/110889865174428595
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20:46 < GnarledHorn> The wireguard config was pretty straightforward. I've got a similar setup from my home computer here to the VPS and I can connect from the VPS to the wireguard IP. Thanks for the suggestions!
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20:46 < tux0r> leah: and just like every other meme, it's not quite good.
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20:46 < GnarledHorn> I'll get my little tiny fanless beauties configured later ^_^
20:46 < tux0r> gentoo CAN be quite different
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20:47 < Bradipo> The man page for encrypt(1) seems to suggest that one can specify either a cipher algorithm, or a class...
20:48 < Bradipo> "In the case where no specific algorithm or specific user login class was given"
20:48 < Bradipo> But I don't see any option for specifying an algorithm...
20:48 < Bradipo> All I see is -c class
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20:51 < Bradipo> Do I really have to configure login.conf with a class just so I can request something other than the default hash algorithm?
20:53 < Bradipo> Maybe none of the crypt(3) methods even support anything else...
20:53 < Bradipo> If not, I guess I need to find a tool that will generate different hashed passwords.
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20:56 < megaTherion> can I do something about restore's "Incremental tape too high"? Im pretty sure I simply skipped a number when choosing the level.
21:01 < Bradipo> Is this a "mission critical" thing are are you just learning about dump/restore?
21:04 < megaTherion> it's kinda critical, yet private usage
21:04 < megaTherion> not all too much important data
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21:19 < Bradipo> Hopefully someone else can answer your question, I've never encountered that error before.
21:19 < Bradipo> If it is an error... maybe it's just an advisory question?
21:20 < megaTherion> I dont know, Im looking for an --force flag
21:20 < megaTherion> its definetly a human error, I have something like 1,2,3,4,6...
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21:26 < Bradipo> Man page says that -r can be used to "restore any necessary incremental backups on top of the level 0."
21:26 < Bradipo> http://man.openbsd.org/restore#r
21:27 < Bradipo> Also says that -r can be detrimental to one's health.
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21:35 < pardis> megaTherion: if you look at the code, you'll see it's basing that error on the date metadata in the dump, not the level
21:36 < pardis> /usr/src/sbin/restore/symtab.c:563 in 7.3
21:37 < pardis> running restore with -v may show you what is wrong with the dumps you are trying to restore
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23:23 < Erhard> If you are trying to ptotect the receiver when transmitting a straight connection to be ground should be goo. You shouldn't need a resistor.
23:23 < Erhard> Wrong chan sorry
23:24 < megaTherion> pardis: I see, thanks - I'll look into the issue tomorrow ;)
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23:45 < riceandbeans> if you have old gpg keys pushed to servers that have expired, does it make sense to revoke them if you have a new totally different one?
23:45 < riceandbeans> or just assume people will only use the non expired one
23:46 < Bradipo> I've never worried about expired ones.
23:46 < Bradipo> What if you have lost the key to revoke it?
23:46 < thrig> CRL didn't really work out too well over in SSL
23:46 < Bradipo> And yet, thing still try to do CRL, poorly.
23:46 < thrig> I guess it could if you control all the clients like for a VPN rollout on managed systems
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23:47 < riceandbeans> Most people still don't care about doing tls right, but if you're doing gpg you're in deep enough you probably care a bit
23:47 < pardis> on the other hand, revoking old keys can't possibly harm anything
23:47 < pardis> the absolute worst outcome is that it has no effect
23:47 < thrig> "noooo we were using that expired cert in workflow X"
23:48 < riceandbeans> I depend on space bar heating
23:49 < AlaskanEmily> I would hope most people would like it to work properly, but provide a warning and a "I don't care" option when it doesn't.
23:49 < Bradipo> What is "proper"?
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23:50 < Bradipo> I mean, what's the purpose of an expiration date if it's ignored?
23:51 < Bradipo> But sure, if you want to "guarantee" that nobody can use it to encrypt data with that key, revoke it.
23:51 < Bradipo> Assuming the client doesn't ignore revocation.
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 15 00:00:46 2023