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08:40 < V-T60> hello. what the fact that i have everything shifted left on my VGA output display is connected with? like one character left
08:40 < V-T60> probably i should've been tweaking openbsd
08:40 < V-T60> because there is nothing to do in display menu
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10:27 < Guestmod> hi
10:29 < Guestmod> i have two users one root and another is staff user. i dont want the staff user to ever be in wheel group. infact i dont have a wheel group
10:30 < Guestmod> so please tell me what should i do. Is staff user ok or should i do something so that the staff user can never become wheel group
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10:31 < Guestmod> still here
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11:08 < IcePic> Guestmod: what is the actual goal for which removing the wheel group is the solution for?
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11:23 < sibiria> breaking the system, perhaps?
11:23 < sibiria> on openbsd, wheel is gid 0
11:23 < sibiria> there's no removing it without hobbling the system
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11:31 < Guestmod> i mean i was thinking that wheel group users can become root. So if my system gets infected still it may never escalate to root privileges
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11:31 < Guestmod> i dont want to remove wheel group
11:32 < Guestmod> i have root which i very safely use and a staff user also which i safely use but i was thinking that staff user should not escalate privileges to root
11:32 < sibiria> they can only become root if they know root's password - or if you do the stupid thing of giving them those bonus privileges via sudo/doas
11:32 < Guestmod> oh thank you then
11:33 < Guestmod> i never use sudo and doas is only for usb drive and shutdown
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12:20 < a1fa> o/
12:22 < trench> Guestmod: how do you update the system and install packages then? login in with root user?
12:23 < Guestmod> yes its a personal old laptop so i log out and log in with the root user
12:23 < eea> oof, is using 'su -' in xterm out of the question?
12:26 < Guestmod> less knowledge makes me more paranoid. so yes out of the question. but on a bright side even if they hack this computer i will lose nothing
12:30 < oldlaptop> it's generally not a good idea to run X sessions as root (certainly a much worse idea than using su)
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12:56 < Guestmod> preach sir
12:56 < Guestmod> :)
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14:24 < se1> i wonder if many folks actually install sudo on openbsd
14:25 < xs> it has been shipped in base for a long time before doas was created
14:26 < se1> yes, I'm trying to imagine what the use case would be for installing it now
14:26 < thrig> extra CVEs
14:26 < sibiria> i think few install it manually these days. but most keep abusing it in all the same ways they abused sudo
14:27 < xs> It can be useful if you want to dragn'drop a huge sudo config but honestly, better rewrite it with doas
14:27 < se1> yeah
14:27 < sibiria> doas just forces them to be somewhat specific about the misuse instead of leaning back on a default "&wheel ALL=(ALL)" setting
14:28 < sibiria> %*
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14:39 < eea> doas nopass keepenv :wheel
14:39 < eea> heh
14:39 < sibiria> "backward compat mode"
14:39 < eea> forces one to be prudent about what users are put in wheel
14:39 < thrig> sudo at least handles duplicate environment variables these days
14:40 < eea> ish
14:40 < sibiria> imo the creation of doas has led to more slop in the system
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14:40 < sibiria> people now keep stuffing their doas configs with all kinds of stupidity, handing out superuser bonus privileges left and right, blurring the line between staff and superuser
14:41 < sibiria> in the olde days of dangerous sudo defaults they committed no mistake of their own, but now...
14:42 < thrig> but you install sudo and maybe there's a CVE that gives someone everything
14:43 < sibiria> it's software. it has bugs. 
14:43 < sibiria> now the users shoot themselves in the foot
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14:45 < sibiria> i remember when users were still somewhat clever, and substituted for root when they needed to, then got out, just like The Lorde intended
14:45 < sibiria> Pepperidge farm remembers, too
14:45 < thrig> no?
14:45 < sibiria> yeah they remember. they never forget over there
14:45 -!- nckx_ is now known as nckx
14:46 < sibiria> "su -l; <stuff>; exit" should be printed on toilet paper and diner napkins
14:46 < sibiria> lest the people will never learn!!
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14:52 < dostoyevsky2> Is it safe to assume that in a default install /tmp will always be a ram file system?
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14:55 < sibiria> dostoyevsky2: by default /tmp is just a directory on same file system as /
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14:55 < sibiria> the default labels don't include /tmp
14:57 < dostoyevsky2> sibiria: Ah, right....  I guess if I need a ram filesystem I'd have to create it myself
15:00 < sibiria> actually maybe the auto-allocator can include /tmp depending on disk size, but it's still gonna be a regular on-disk file system
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15:30 < se1> lol pepperidge farm
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15:32 < se1> I had to throw another drive in my system for Macrosoft Binbows, and now my rig is having a battle over system time. Boot from either drive, and the last OS I used has screwed up the system clock for the other. heh
15:33 < thrig> oh yeah Windows does that different like
15:34 < thrig> another joy of multibooting
15:34 < onebitboy> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\TimeZoneInformation]
15:34 < onebitboy> "RealTimeIsUniversal"=hex(b):01,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
15:35 < onebitboy> if you want to force windows to keep the clock at utc
15:36 < se1> onebitboy: oh thanks for this, I'll take a look. 
15:38 < pardis> /tmp will be a separate on-disk filesystem on approximately all disks by default
15:38 < pardis> you need a disk smaller than 10G for it to be a directory on /, which in 2023 basically means VMs and nothing else
15:39 < thrig> or something you dragged out for the old computer challenge
15:39 < martian67> heres a nickle kid, get a real computer
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16:44 < ssm_> how important is it that you put passwords on your ssh keys? I've always considered unnecessary. I don't put passwords on other cert-auth mechanisms and I don't see why I would for ssh auth
16:50 < Bradipo> Do you have a passphrase on your GPG key?
16:50 < Bradipo> As for SSH, it depends entirely on the usage.  I have a passphrase an any key that *I* use.
16:50 < Bradipo> But if it's a key for automated systems, generally no passphrase.
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16:56 < se1> anyone recall what you put in ~/.config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini to provide normal ctrl+a ctrl+v copy paste stuff? something like gtk-something-theme-name=Default
16:56 < Bradipo> I usually enable vi-mode in that file.
16:57 < Bradipo> But it sounds like what you want is to disable emacs mode.
16:57 < Bradipo> And prefer Windows mode.
16:58 < thrig> .oO( ctrl+v for paste is normal?? )
16:58 < se1> i think so, ctrl+a select all, ctrl+c copy, ctrl+v paste
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16:59 < se1> Bradipo: yes disable emacs mode, I lost my config because I'm a bad sysadmin
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16:59 < Bradipo> ctrl-a is move to beginning of line, and ctrl-v, well, doesn't really apply in a GTK application I suppose.
17:00 < se1> Bradipo: what's the line you used to enable vi mode?
17:00 < Bradipo> I'm trying to find it now...
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17:00 < Bradipo> Seems I haven't enabled it for a while.
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17:00 < thrig> those control keys ain't normal (in the context of unix)
17:00 < Bradipo> Yeah, and it really bugs me when websites (think Teams) override them!
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17:03 < se1> thrig: might not be. I put one line in my gtk settings.ini a long time ago, so it's been what I'm used to. I think that's the default keybind on windows
17:11 < sibiria> ssm_: you should password-protect all ssh keys you use interactively
17:12 < pardis> ssm_: how important is it to you that any random program you run can't copy your private key?
17:13  * se1 generates new passwordless ssh keys on his work machine and downloads some sketchy programs because he's been trying to get fired for months now
17:13 < ssm_> pardis: not very, but I see the point
17:16 < thrig> if they can run a program to borrow your private keys, they can run a program to borrow the password for the private keys
17:16 -!- drathir_tor [~drathir@wireguard/tunneler/drathir] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
17:17  * se1 self destructs
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17:20 < pardis> that's assuming malicious intent and sufficient patience
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17:20 < pardis> copying a file is much lower-effort, and easier to do accidentally, than logging keystrokes and waiting for hours/days until the key is finally used
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17:22 < pardis> also, on OpenBSD, ssh-add is typically run on X session startup, before there are any user programs running that could snoop on its input
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17:29 < Bradipo> However, if you follow GPG guidelines, you'll keep your SSH keys "offline" as well as your GPG keys. :-)
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17:29 < Bradipo> Though, arguably, it might be more secure to have them "online" at the time that ssh-add runs before any other user programs.
17:29 < ssm_> on openbsd, most of the programs I'd be concerned about stealing my ssh keys are already unveil(2)'d
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17:30 < Bradipo> At any rate, I always have a passphrase on keys that *I* use personally, and not in some automated fashion.
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17:33 < ssm_> s/most/all
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18:42 < thrig> I wonder if libiconv is supposed to segfault when fed random inputs
18:47 < pardis> why handle errors when the OS has such a good error handling mechanicsm on your behalf?
18:48 < thrig> meanwhile, libutf8proc is "lol, documentation? read the header"
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18:49 < eea> magic, check
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19:25 < fifi> hey, I am trying to compile a mouse icon theme, but everything is compressed with gz, so I get errors like this:
19:25 < fifi> tar: unknown option -- -
19:25 < fifi> Or something like that: tar: input compressed with gzip; use the -z option to decompress it
19:25 < fifi> chmod: Supernatural_Cursors/*: No such file or directory
19:25 < fifi> :/
19:27 < Bradipo> What command did you run?
19:31 < fifi> doas make install
19:31 < fifi> or I simply use lxappearance to install icon theme
19:31 < fifi> but the tar won't unpack the tar.gz file
19:31 < fifi> so I am stuck
19:31 < fifi> I know it's not related to openBSD that much, but I don't know where to ask
19:33 < sibiria> tar -xzf ... ?
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19:38 < fro> lol
19:38 < se1> not sure I understand the issue but a lot of GUI file managers provide right click menu options for extracting various archives. also I like to put a function like this in my .profile   https://clbin.com/oJhlp
19:39 < fifi> yeah but how to tell this to automake
19:40 < fifi> yup, but lxappearance requires compressed file to install theme, I am trying to install mouse cursor theme, I use autoconf and automake 
19:40 < se1> “A Problem Well-Defined is a Problem Half-Solved”
19:40 < thrig> se1: what no shar support??
19:41 < se1> thrig: i blaspheme
19:41 < fifi> so I use automake and autoconf to install about 15 mouse themes, but when I type doas make install it reports that I need to use -z to decompress .gz file, that's why I am stuck
19:42 < fro> so use -z then
19:42 < fifi> doas make install -z
19:42 < fifi> ??
19:43 < fro> obviously no
19:43 < fro> pretty sure there's an lxde channel
19:43 < fro> btw
19:44 < fro> not that they are going to help you either
19:44 < fifi> maybe if I could change the default behaviour of tar to decompress .gz files with -z somehow...
19:44 < fifi> during doas make install
19:44 < se1> it sounds like you're trying to run make prior to extracting whatever is you are trying to make
19:46 < fifi> it says in readme to do doas make install, but maybe this is for linux or something, I don't know, it says nothing about decompressing this first, ehh
19:46 < fifi> ok nevermind, thanks for your time
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19:49 < fifi> how do you install icon/mouse themes on openBSD?
19:53 < fro> i don't understand this question
19:53 < typicat> pointers/icons to $HOME/.icons and gtk themes to $HOME/.themes 
19:53 < fifi> ok, tnx :)
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19:54 < fro> that isn't specific to openbsd
19:58 < fifi> yeah, I know, I am just learning how to make my openBSD desktop look more beautiful, customize themes/icons etc. etc.
19:59 < xse> i'd be picking one that's already packaged and works, then from that point figuring out what that one did when u installed it, which is likely gonna amount to "get those files in specific place"
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19:59 < Bradipo> fifi: It sounds like you have a piece of software that makes assumptions about the environment in which it wants to be installed.
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20:04 < fifi> yeah so when I open lxappearance in terminal and click Install theme + I choose the icon theme, it says in terminal: tar: unknown option -- - 
20:04 < fifi> where is that option - -  - saved? sorry but it's bothering me 
20:04 < fifi> xD
20:05 < fifi> how can I tell it to use tar -xzf instead of tar -- - ehh
20:05 < fifi> maybe I will find the solution
20:08 < typicat> do you have some weird tar alias? type tar
20:09 < typicat> gunzipping from tar is pretty universal 
20:10 < thrig> GNU things tend to need GNU tars
20:10 < xse> eeh gtar maybe, like a gtar symlink named tar in ~/bin and double making sure ~/bin is first in PATH
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20:11 < se1> I don't think fifi has extracted the archive at all based on what she said
20:11 < xse> idk doing that is likely to fuck up something else at one so it'd need to be only temporary
20:12 < xse> at one point*
20:13 < fifi> ok nevermind, thanks anyway ;)
20:14 < typicat> thrig, you are correct - the lxappearance calls tar with '--gzip' which doesnt work with obsd tar :)
20:14 < thrig> shocking
20:14 < typicat> fifi, just extract the archives to their respective folder in either .icons or .themes and use lxappearance to activate
20:15 < fifi> I did extract it to /usr/share/icons but something is not right, there's the theme in lxappearance but no images/can't press apply, huh so confusing, damn I just want to change my mouse icon for something else ;p
20:15 < fifi> theme name I mean
20:15 < a1fa> reload
20:16 < fifi> I will put it to .icons and create the folder and edit index.theme to see what happens
20:16 < fifi> ok, tnx
20:17 < se1> why are you edting index.theme?
20:17 < typicat> why edi.. but ok
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20:18 < fifi> nah, I am not, it says to not edit this
20:18 < fifi> ok I did it!
20:18 < fifi> easy, just have to move the folder to ~/.icons :)
20:18 < fifi> it appears in the lxappearance now, thanks! :)
20:18 < fifi> solved :)
20:19 < fifi> looks sick :)
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20:25 < fifi> I've used plenty of linux distros, but none of them was so smooth and fluid like openBSD is, it's so amazing <3
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20:27 < GnarledHorn> You're using puffy the puffer fish as a mouse cursor? and it expands to be spikey when you click? that's awesome
20:27 < fifi> something like that :)
20:28 < fifi> sounds good ;p
20:28 < fifi> does something like that exist?
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20:32 < fifi> Welcome to fish, the friendly interactive shell | wow that looks so cool in the terminal!
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20:41 < osc> hi, I have problems maintaining nfs connections to my openbsd servers. I've observed this problem on 3 different hosts running -current. The 2 nfs clients are debian and ubuntu. Servers and clients are on a flat l2 network, without any firewalls (pf / iptables are disabled everywhere). After some time the connections show FIN_WAIT_2 on both sides,
20:42 < osc> mounted nfs directories hang and sometimes the application accessing these directories hangs or crashes, too. There's no way to recover from that, other than (lazy) unmounting the nfs shares and terminating the connections manually using ss.
20:42 < osc> I've tried literally every single mount option including different values for timeo, without success. Since I only have this problem with openbsd being the server I expect there's an issue with openbsd's nfs implementation.
20:42 < osc> This exact problem was reported by someone else to misc@ back in march, but there weren't any responses. What should I do now? An ideas what I could try? Is it worth reporting it to bugs@?
20:47 < avemestr> It is always worth reporting something like this to bugs@. A good idea to point to the previous thread and submit as much information about the parameters/options used.
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20:55 < osc> ok, thanks! I'll capture the traffic between the server and a client tomorrow and file a bug report.
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--- Log closed Wed Aug 16 00:00:47 2023