--- Log opened Thu Aug 17 00:00:49 2023
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00:14 < pardis> it's a good fit for HTTP APIs, too
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00:23 < dev1ls> i
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05:33 < concrete_houses> how do I make a lot of money in computing?
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05:39 < fro> you're not going to find out in here
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05:40 < Xeroine> =D
05:42 < concrete_houses> :(
05:42 < concrete_houses> I have lot of experience in linux web platform
05:45 < Xeroine> concrete_houses: yeah but this isn't the right place to ask probably
05:46 < fro> not probably
05:47 < fro> it's just not
05:49 < concrete_houses> Where should I ask?
05:51 < fro> somewhere that isn't irc
05:51 < Xeroine> =DD
05:52 < concrete_houses> gnap gnap ok
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06:07 < CosmicDJ> concrete_houses: learn cobol and became a mainframe guy?
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06:15 < CosmicDJ> concrete_houses: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/07/the-ibm-mainframe-how-it-runs-and-why-it-survives/
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07:12 < concrete_houses> we should go back to mainframes!! hell yeah! alan kay style the one bob barton made or heyk a forth one greenarrays.com and flibe-energy.com for unlimited energy
07:13 < concrete_houses> cobol? lol why not lisp? or smalltalk ?
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07:16 < concrete_houses> cool mainframe link
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07:32 < zelest> Hmms, my mouse has 7 buttons, but OpenBSD only seem to see 5 of them. Anyone who could point me in the right direction on how to fix this? I assume it's the driver?
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07:43 < concrete_houses> how many buttons?  last time I head about 3 button mouse was when I was playing with plan9
07:44 < oldlaptop> zelest: I know linux has special (driver-level) workarounds for some elecom products
07:44 < zelest> left, right, middle, scroll-wheel up, scroll-wheel down.. isn't that the default these days? :P
07:44 < zelest> I can move my scrollwheel left/right as well though.. which is nice for back/forward in browsers
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07:45 < zelest> oldlaptop, Ah, this is a "normal" Lenovo wireless mouse.. nothing special or fancy gaming mouse or so
07:46 < oldlaptop> neither are what I'm talking about really
07:47 < oldlaptop> e.g. https://www.amazon.com/ELECOM-Left-Handed-Thumb-Operated-Trackball-M-XT4DRBK-G/dp/B08GR2K8WH/
07:47 < oldlaptop> I guess they have put "Gaming" in the crazy list of amazon keywords at some point
07:47 < zelest> wow
07:47 < zelest> pass on that crazy mouse :D
07:48 < oldlaptop> (it is, as far as I can tell, the only option on the market in left-handed thumb-operated trackballs)
07:48 < lts> Gaming with a thumb trackball sounds incredibly painful
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07:48 < zelest> my dmesg says "ums0 at uhidev1: 5 buttons, Z and W dir", on Linux, it says 7 buttons.. :P
07:49 < zelest> https://download.lenovo.com/km/media/images/PD026882/precision%20mouse_20191126122040688.jpg
07:49 < zelest> nothing fancy about it :)
07:50 < oldlaptop> odd, then - that doesn't add up, "Z and W dir" should show up as two buttons each(?) to linux, I thought
07:51 < oldlaptop> which would add up to seven if that really is just two buttons and a wheel
07:51 < zelest> Hmms...
07:51 < zelest> now that you mention it
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07:58 < zelest> No idea if that's how it's mapped, but if I use 'xev -event button', it lists the scolling and the left/right as the same buttons (4 and 5)
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08:14 < kodcode> I am getting several `Authorization required, but no authorization protocol specified` errors using doas - why is that?
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08:17 < zelest> I can't find that phrase anywhere in /usr/src :o
08:18 < zelest> And you're using this on OpenBSD?
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08:28 < zelest> oldlaptop, heh, found what you was referring too
08:28 < zelest>     if (uaa->vendor == USB_VENDOR_ELECOM)                                       
08:28 < zelest>         ums_fix_elecom_descriptor(sc, desc, size, uaa->product);  
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08:29  * oldlaptop did not recall elecom fixes going in
08:29 < zelest> :)
08:30 < oldlaptop> (the machine that trackball is plugged into runs Linux mostly because I still need to move the lvm crud to a real nas)
08:35 < kodcode> zelest: Yes, 7.3
08:36 < zelest> Strange
08:37 < kodcode> More specific. I can run programs with doas, but I _also_ get those error messages. For example, running `doas vi /etc/resolv.conf`, I get 3 times this message.
08:38 < zelest> Silly question, but doas isn't an alias for something like sudo?
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08:42 < kodcode> zelest: Nope. `permit nopass keepenv :wheel` is what I have in /etc/doas.conf
08:44 < zelest> Aha!
08:45 < zelest> kodcode, https://www.reddit.com/r/linux4noobs/comments/lu1plx/comment/hwkdvlf/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
08:45 < zelest> Seems to be X related?
08:45 < CosmicDJ> vi on OpenBSD is not linked with any X libs
08:46 < zelest> I know
08:47 < sibiria> kodcode: are you aware that your non-root user is now effectively a superuser?
08:48 < sibiria> i.e. no privilege separation at all
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08:48 < catlemon> Thursday and new BSD Now: https://www.bsdnow.tv/520
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08:53 < kodcode> sorry, `doas vim` is throwing this error, `doas vi` not. 
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08:55 < sibiria> since you've already broken privilege separation on your system, save yourself time: just write "doas su -l" once and you're root
08:55 < sibiria> then you can stop writing "doas" infront of everything all the time
08:55 < zelest> doas su -l ?!
08:55 < zelest> doas -s
08:56 < sibiria> don't ask me about doas features, i don't use it :P
08:56 < zelest> :D
08:57 < kodcode> zelest: doas -s works, no errors
08:57 < sibiria> and what's great is that because of your clever doas.conf spec you don't even need to provide root's password :)))
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09:37 < tercaL> sibiria: You got "Quote of the Year" on a bsd blog; https://ozgurkazancci.com :))
09:40 < ludovicus> Nice!
09:40 < sibiria> glad to be of service
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10:00 < IcePic> sibiria - ranting for fun and profit
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10:12 < sibiria> it's a tough gig but someone's gotta do it
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13:29 < z3bra> Has anyone encountered this when compiling a port? "Fatal: requires make(1) with .VARIABLES support (in sysutils/tarsnap)"
13:32 < xse> there was a patch for .VARIABLES on tech@ like a few days/weeks ago
13:33 < z3bra> oh right. I might have fetched the -current port tree indeed
13:35 < z3bra> thanks for the hint
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15:36 < betabube> hello, does openbsd work on intel compute stick?
15:37 < jcs> yes
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16:03 < jab> hey openbsd people...I think I found the error in my smtpd.conf file.
16:03 < jab> https://paste.debian.net/1289289/  
16:03 < jab> if you look at the vusers table...I think that actually has to be an aliases file.
16:03 < jab> does that sound right?
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16:08 < jab> surprizingly smtpd -nf smtpd.conf  says that conf file has the right syntax...
16:08 < thrig> no, smtpd.conf(5) mentions three table forms
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16:11 < jab> thrig: well in that case, then my smtpd.conf should be correct.
16:11 < jab> however I can send email via username: joshua & PASSWORD... but not with joshua@gnucode.me & PASSWORD
16:12 < jab> /var/maillog says that I am using the incorrect password when I make the username "joshua@gnucode.me"...
16:12 < z3bra> smtpd will say the password is incorrect when username doesn't exist too
16:13 < z3bra> that's your issue imo
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16:14 < z3bra> if you want to authenticate with "joshua@gnucode.me" as the username, it should be:
16:14 < z3bra> table "vusers" { "joshua@gnucode.me" = "joshua@gnucode.me", … }
16:15 < z3bra> table "NAME" { key = value }
16:15 < jab> z3bra: I want to authenticate the way that is norammly done.  say my email address is silly@gmail.com...isn't the smtp username "silly@gmail.com"  ?  
16:15 < z3bra> where key is the email address of the user, and value the username associated with the account 
16:16 < jab> normally* 
16:17 < z3bra> depends on what you set :)
16:17 < z3bra> in the config you posted, the same user can authenticate for both email addresses
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16:18 < jab> hmmm.  interesting.
16:18 < z3bra> mmmh wait I might be mistaken.
16:18 < jab> is it considered a bad idea to have a lot user on a Unix machine "silly@gmail.com"  
16:19 < jab> a *local user
16:19 < z3bra> you might want to look into virtual users 
16:20 < jab> man.  This is getting really confusing...
16:21 < z3bra> table passwd passwd:/etc/mail/passwd
16:21 < z3bra> listen on eth0 [...] pki smtp.gnucode.me auth <passwd>
16:22 < z3bra> then don't bother, you can create users with the @ in name
16:22 < z3bra> it's not very "clean" as I see it, but it works (and is simpler than virtual account)
16:23 < z3bra> I need to go sorry
16:23 < jab> z3bra: what is a clean way to do it?  I would like to potentially scale this so that I could give out free emails to 20+ friends.
16:23 < jab> no worries.
16:23 < z3bra> the clean way to do it is what's called "virtual accounts"
16:24 < jab> I will read into that. thanks.
16:24 < z3bra> you create the accounts in a flat file, say /etc/mail/passwd, then deliver mails to /var/vmail/$DOMAIN/$USER 
16:25 < eea> extra points for keeping all virtual users in a db table :)
16:25 < jab> eea that would make it faster I suppose...
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16:27 < eea> jab: this howto seems mostly reasonable... https://uberblo.gs/2020/04/opensmtpd-dovecot-with-a-shared-postgresql-sieve-and-rspamd-on-openbsd
16:27 < jab> eea thanks!
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16:28 < eea> jab: you are welcome
16:28 < jab> this one was really helpful for me too.  
16:28 < jab> https://poolp.org/posts/2019-09-14/setting-up-a-mail-server-with-opensmtpd-dovecot-and-rspamd/
16:28 < eea> poolp is a much better resource
16:28 < eea> but does not cover the postgres setup
16:28 < jab> gotcha. 
16:29 < z3bra> ^ agreed for poolp
16:29 < eea> swear there was a good one on dataswamp
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16:30 < eea> maybe @solene took it down, or i am just dreaming it up
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16:37 < jab> hmmm. 
16:38 < jab> @solene has some pretty cool stuff!
16:38 < jf> jab virtual user tables (virtual <vusers>) are for mapping incoming email. auth tables are different (auth <credentials>) and your paste does not include an auth table (auth without a table specified falls back to system auth)
16:41 < jf> (and +1 for poolp / gilles' documentation)
16:43 < eea> ^
16:43 < jab> jf.  Yes.  I thought that I was telling opensmtpd that "joshua@gnucode.me" should be authed as user "joshua".  Apparently that is not how that works.
16:44 < jf> you want to login as (eg) "joshua@gnucode.me", totally separate from the system auth?
16:46 < jab> jf:  yes.  I think the best way forward is to set up virtual users.
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16:49 < eea> all my vusers use full email address for auth username
16:49 < eea> only way to sanely manage multiple domains
16:49 < eea> imho
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16:53 < ssm_> Does anyone know the best way to do mail processing server-side, so I don't need to set up every one of my IMAP clients with their own rules?
16:53 < jf> jab see https://0x0.st/HL1k.txt . I deliver to dovecot via lmtp for the incoming mail. both smtpd and dovecot use the same sqlite db / tables for auth.
16:54 < Bradipo> What do you mean "IMAP with own rules"?
16:54 < Bradipo> The very best rules are "personal" rules.
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16:56 < jf> (yes, i only included the smtp submission listen in the snippet / partial)
16:57 < jf> you may need opensmtpd-extras from ports to get the sqlite table support
16:58 < ssm_> Bradipo: like claws-mail processing rules to move OpenBSD mails to their own subdirectories like reading the LIST-ID header and moving the mail to OpenBSD/misc
16:58 < ssm_> would be easier to do server side than setting up processing rules for all my mail clients
16:59 < Bradipo> If it's done "server side", how does the customer inform the "server" of the filtering?
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17:06 < pardis> if this is just for personal mail, there is no customer
17:07 < Bradipo> Oh, well, I guess in this case, I interpreted "clients" as "customers".
17:08 < Bradipo> But sure, I suppose it could be "clients" as in "various client softwares that I use".
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17:30 < jab> jf thanks.  I'm actually running opensmtpd on guix system.  writing a service for it.  Don't hate me.  :)
17:31 < jab> gotta go to work now.  talk to ya'll later.
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18:04 < ox1eef_> Buy more lottery tickets, and maybe you'll be able to stay around to chat longer.
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18:51 < ciprian_craciun> Hello all!  Quick question:  how to install the latest OpenBSD on an (Intel) MacBook Pro 15 (mid-2010)?  I've already tried writing to an USB stick both the ISO and the IMG, and none want to boot.  (I've tried some other live Linux sticks and they do boot.)  Thanks.
18:53 < thrig> the ISO is for a CD-ROM, not a USB stick. exactly how was the IMG written?
18:54 < ciprian_craciun> thrig> `dd if=... of=/dev/sdX oflag=direct bs=1M` from a Linux machine.
18:54 < ciprian_craciun> (I know that the ISO is for a CD-ROM, but I thought I should give it a try if all else fails;  which it did.)  :)
18:55 < ciprian_craciun> Alternatively, is there a way to launch the installer from rEFInd?  (Which does boot without an issue from USB.)
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19:07 < ciprian_craciun> (Using the same `dd` command, the mini memdisk for FreeBSD 13 works as expected.)
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19:08 < ciprian_craciun> I assume that the OpenBSD 7.3 install IMG doesn't support EFI.  (`parted` does report it as MBR.)
19:08 < thrig> in theory there's a README but it's been years since I looked at it for macbooks
19:08 < ciprian_craciun> (Although the same is reported for FreeBSD memdisk also, thus I don't know.)
19:09 < ciprian_craciun> thrig> the README does explicitly mentions PPC MacBooks, but nothing about the Intel ones.
19:10 < ciprian_craciun> However, I've seen quite a few blogs on the internet that said they've managed to install it on Intel MacBook's, but it seems all went for CD install, and none give concrete instructions about the installation.
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19:20 < avemestr> https://www.reddit.com/r/openbsd/comments/y3020e/still_looking_at_laptops_for_openbsd/ < note the first comment.
19:20 < avemestr> https://www.reddit.com/r/openbsd/comments/fqf24e/cant_boot_openbsd_from_usb_on_intel_mac/ < amusing first comment here as well: "Insert a Ubuntu usb stick and press option while restart. When you are presented with device to boot from remove the Ubuntu stick with the openbsd USB stick then boot. "
19:21 < pardis> ciprian_craciun: the installation media have all supported UEFI for years
19:21 < pardis> but they don't support secure boot, maybe that's the problem?
19:21 < ciprian_craciun> avemestr> I'll try to follow the advices in there.
19:22 < ciprian_craciun> pardis: I don't know if secure boot is enabled on this Mac.  Other OS's boot without a problem.
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19:27 < ciprian_craciun> Never mind...  It might be lack of sleep...  Now it works...  (Perhaps I've misplaced the USB stick, I have identical ones, or mis-writen the wrong image...)
19:30 < thrig> OCD Santa... he's making a list... and checking it again... and again...
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19:32 < avemestr> Sorry, we should have done usual Windows support: "Have you tried turning it off and on again?" :-D
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19:40 < ciprian_craciun> avemestr:  I have "turned it off and on again" several times (by which I mean tried writing and booting USB sticks).  It seems the last one was a lucky charm.  :)
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19:43 < thrig> hence having a magic totem made of pipe cleaners and old washers to bless the hardware with
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19:51 < GnarledHorn> Hey that's a great idea thrig
19:51 < GnarledHorn> do you need to make contact with the hardware or does it stand separately?
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19:54 < thrig> usually it sat on the SCSI drive back when SCSI termination was something of a voodoo science
20:00 < extrowerk> avemestr: "remove the Ubuntu stick with the openbsd USB stick then boot." lol
20:00 < thrig> similar tricks were used on playstations to get around region locks or whatnot
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20:02 < ciprian_craciun> Just wanted to let you know it installed and booted all right on an MacBook Pro 15 (mid-2010).  (The WiFi card is not detected (yet?), and the sleep doesn't seem to work.  I'll play with it in the weekend perhaps.)
20:02 < thrig> probably need a usb wifi
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20:06 < jcs> you can probably swap the wifi card for one that works with bwfm
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20:08 < jcs> BCM943602CS
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20:17 < GnarledHorn> I just had a successful test of using google meet with iridium on -current. The video is laggy but that's probably more about my underpowered hardware than anything else. Cool to see it working!
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20:18 < GnarledHorn> I made a script inspired by https://astro-gr.org/openbsd-video-conferencing/ that enables the video and audio recording (and rwx to /dev/video0) just for the duration of the browser session
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22:09 < se1> clear
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22:09 < pardis> crystal
22:09 < se1> derp
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22:13 < quinq> ^Lel
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 18 00:00:50 2023