--- Log opened Mon Aug 21 00:00:54 2023
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12:33 < renaud> has anyone tried recent snapshots on Oracle cloud?
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18:33 < eea> feel like using anything in oracle cloud would result in a multitude of expletives
18:34 < eea> for me
18:34 < sibiria> has worked great for me. ironically the most annoying part was getting 2FA working for logins
18:35 < eea> same for aws+azure sso
18:39 < GnarledHorn> sso + UNIX is something completely exotic to me. I'll have to do a demo setup sometime and see how it works
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20:22 < betabube> wanted to use freebsd first but am going to go with openbsd now, i feel like it is even simpler
20:23 < betabube> i hope to get my ethernet usb adapter to work
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20:24 < betabube> to my understanding, the installer downloads from firmware.openbsd.org during installation? so when i don't have an internet connection while installing openbsd, it doesn't download the firmware?
20:24 < betabube> just downloaded it manually i'll give it a try again, any reason the fw doesn't come with the iso?
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20:25 -!- user71 [~user71@2001:1530:1012:fbc5:1e6f:65ff:fe88:557f] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:27 < sibiria> there's probably a reason, but i wouldn't know :) downloading it separately and providing it over USB is a working solution
20:28 -!- userfoo [~absc@213.55.241.117] has quit [Quit: Got to go. irctk 1.0.0-alpha]
20:28 -!- fro [fro@humpty.dance] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:28 -!- absc [absc@2a04:ee41:8:6055::4] has joined #openbsd
20:28 < phy1729> The second paragraph of man fw_update tells why it's necessary.
20:29 < betabube> ty
20:30 -!- jfsimon1981_b [~jfsimon19@lfbn-lyo-1-1454-239.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openbsd
20:30 -!- acidfoo [~acidfoo@modemcable137.64-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:30 -!- jfsimon1981_b [~jfsimon19@lfbn-lyo-1-1454-239.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit]
20:30 < betabube> "Since firmware with an acceptable license is already present in OpenBSD, fw_update exists purely to deal with firmware that may not be freely distributed with OpenBSD." Ok, so my guess is that the driver for that amazon basics usb ethernet adapter doesnt have an acceptable license
20:31 < betabube> but the interface has been recognized as axen0, thought it was due to the driver hmm
20:31 < betabube> i've to give it a try :)
20:32 < sibiria> they're all getting that treatment, for the same of tidiness presumably
20:33 -!- viq|w [~viq@user/viq] has joined #openbsd
20:33 < quinq> betabube, what does the kernel say through dmesg?
20:34 < sibiria> no external fw needed for axe/axen. source: me, owning USB axe and axen devices
20:35 < quinq> sibiria, prove it!
20:35 < sibiria> WELL IF I COULD FIND THEM I WOULD TAKE PIKSHURS FOR YOU
20:35 < sibiria> ALSO IF I COULD FIND MY PHONE
20:35 < thrig> dual wielding axe? really?
20:35 < sibiria> yes; axen is plural for axe
20:36 < sibiria> nah i have two because one had a flimsy USB cable that annoyed me
20:36 < sibiria> s'what you get for spending $3 with china
20:36 < quinq> dual welding axe!
20:37 < Bradipo> wielding or welding?
20:37 < betabube> sibiria: you're sure? because i can't get an internet connection through it
20:37 < thrig> wedding
20:37 < quinq> Whatever you think is more badass
20:37 < quinq> haha thrig 
20:38 < sibiria> betabube: yes i'm sure. but we might have different variants. what does your dmesg say exactly?
20:38 < quinq> betabube, before getting internet, try having a regular ethernet connection
20:40 -!- jacobk [~quassel@129.110.242.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:40 -!- toxic063 [~toxic0@82.66.203.96] has joined #openbsd
20:41 < Bradipo> Before getting ethernet, well, where's the story called "I, Ethernet" when you need it?
20:41 < betabube> don't know how to show you the output of dmesg without an internet connection, it is just oo much
20:42 < Bradipo> You could mount the install media and write the dmesg output to it, then mount the install media on a different host.
20:42 < quinq> dmesg > /mnt/dmesg.txt
20:42 < betabube> i can ping 8.8.8.8 hmm
20:42 < Bradipo> Assuming, of course that youre install media isn't optical.
20:42 < quinq> unmount yous usb stick, plug it in your machine with Internet
20:42 < betabube> but i don't know why i can't ping by domain name :/
20:42 < quinq> They you have internet
20:43 < quinq> Just no functional DNS, maybe
20:44 < betabube> but i've set /etc/resolv.conf to nameserver 8.8.8.8
20:44 < betabube> lookup file bind
20:45 < Bradipo> Are you sure DNS to 8.8.8.8 is permitted on the network where you are installing?
20:45 < betabube> it is my homenetwork
20:45 < Bradipo> PING shows that there is a network device that responds, but it doesn't show that UDP packets on port 53 work.
20:45 < quinq> Your ISP network, then
20:46 < betabube> yeah i mean i can ping 8.8.8.8 on my archlinux
20:46 < Bradipo> dig +short www.yahoo.com @8.8.8.8
20:46 < quinq> yahoo.com is still a working domain? :D
20:46 < Bradipo> As working as any.
20:47 < betabube> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
20:47 < betabube> so bad why i can't get openbsd internet to work? i followed the faq still doesn't work :(
20:47 -!- jacobk [~quassel@utdpat241106.utdallas.edu] has joined #openbsd
20:48 < betabube> i want to try openbsd because of drkhsh :)
20:49 < Bradipo> How is your network configured.  This clearly shows that you cannot query a DNS resolver.
20:49 < Bradipo> Doesn't prove that you've properly configured your network.
20:49 < betabube> my network is just my isp router on 10.0.0.138 and dhcp
20:50 -!- Leone [~Leo@45.72.224.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:50 < quinq> What's 10.0.0.138?
20:50 -!- acidfoo [~acidfoo@modemcable137.64-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openbsd
20:50 < Bradipo> I mean, on OpenBSD.  Can you pastebin output for "ifconfig -a" and "netstat -nr" ?
20:50 < betabube> i've added a file to: /etc/openbsd.axen0 with the contents: "inet 10.0.0.100 255.255.255.0"
20:50 < Bradipo> And also "dmesg"
20:50 < Bradipo> I hope you mean /etc/hostname.axen0
20:50 < quinq> also route -n show
20:51 < betabube> openbsd is my hostname yes
20:51 < quinq> /etc/hostname.openbsd
20:51 < Bradipo> No, that's wrong.
20:51 < betabube> what? O_o
20:51 < Bradipo> The filename must be /etc/hostname.axen0
20:51 < quinq> "hostname" here should actually be "hostname", it's not a place-holder
20:51 < betabube> yeah, openbsd.axen0 
20:51 < Bradipo> No.
20:51 < quinq> no
20:51 < betabube> oh
20:51 < Bradipo> I did not say /etc/$(hostname).axen0
20:52 -!- wblue [~Thunderbi@2600:1700:4f00:2c20:6d66:fb62:8d56:634f] has joined #openbsd
20:52 -!- wblue [~Thunderbi@2600:1700:4f00:2c20:6d66:fb62:8d56:634f] has quit [Client Quit]
20:52 < Bradipo> http://man.openbsd.org/hostname.if
20:53 -!- fro [fro@humpty.dance] has joined #openbsd
20:55 < sibiria> betabube: the file must be LITERALLY named hostname.axen0
20:55 < betabube> thank you i'll try again after reboot
20:55 < betabube> and i'm sorry for not showing you dmesg and ifconfig yet
20:56 -!- hussein1 [~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hussein1] has joined #openbsd
20:56 < Bradipo> No, that's fine.
20:56 < Bradipo> The most important thing is that /etc/hostname.axen0 was misnamed.
20:56 < Bradipo> It might actually start working once you get that correct.
20:57 < betabube> now i'm getting spammed with: axen0: invalid buffer(pkt#1), continue
20:57 -!- acidfoo [~acidfoo@modemcable137.64-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
20:57 < betabube> i can barely enter anything, it will spam this on every line :/
20:58 < sibiria> there are quite a few variants of the chipsets that the axe/axen driver supports, usually indicated by a letter at the end
20:58 < sibiria> AX88178a, b, c etc.
20:58 < sibiria> i'm not sure what i have
20:59 < betabube> i've got this one https://www.amazon.de/dp/B00M77HMU0?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
20:59 < sibiria> that says nothing since the chips are used by a hundred different OEMs
20:59 < sibiria> the dmesg output will say what chip it is
21:00 < betabube> ok how to turn it off for a second to see at dmesg?
21:00 < quinq> “Compatible with Windows 10/8/7 and Mac OS; does not support Chrome OS, Windows RT, Linux or Android.”
21:00 < Bradipo> Try a different console?
21:00 < betabube> srsly why does openbsd spam those messages?
21:01 < betabube> wE aRe gOinG tO sspAm tHiS bEcAuSe wE wAnT tO be anNoying!!!
21:01 < Bradipo> Time for a break?
21:01 < martian67> leave that shit on 4chan
21:01 < sibiria> betabube: do you happen to have it connected to a long ethernet cable? a lot of those cheap USB-ethernet dongles come with sub-standard isolation transformers that misbehave on cables that are 3+ meters long
21:01 < quinq> It's getting back at you for feeding it a shitty $10 USB ethernet adaptor
21:01 < betabube> 0,5m cable
21:01 -!- toxic063 [~toxic0@82.66.203.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
21:02 < betabube> my openbsd experience so far: look ma, i'm an openbsd user, i'm superior to those arch n00bs, i don't support the simplest hardware because if you're too dumb to find out on your own, you're not worth it to use me
21:04 < sibiria> that's great. though do take a peek in the dmesg. it might give some clue
21:04 < quinq> :'(
21:04 -!- SexWarrior [~DankFrank@2a01:4b00:940e:f600:394e:7e70:53a5:c058] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:05 < betabube> sibiria: it is the ASIX AX88179A model
21:05 < betabube> rev 3.20/2.00
21:05 < Bradipo> betabube: Nobody here has behaved in the way you assert.
21:06 < betabube> Bradipo: but that's what people tell about openbsd "community" all the time
21:06 < sibiria> betabube: hold on, let me locate mine and see what i have
21:06 < Bradipo> But that's not what you said, you said it was *your* experience, not something you read.
21:06 -!- bgs [~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:06 < betabube> ok i'll hold my breath
21:07 < Bradipo> Take a deep breath.  OpenBSD is not like other OSes.  If you want to use it, you're going to have to figure things differently than other OSes.
21:07 -!- toxic063 [~toxic0@82.66.203.96] has joined #openbsd
21:07 < Bradipo> Sometimes cheap hardware is harder to make work.
21:07 < betabube> it feels like someone told me i'm dumb, but i did my homework and read the faq
21:08 < Bradipo> That's because you're unfamiliar with it.
21:08 < Bradipo> And you have cheap hardware potentially getting in the way.  People working on OpenBSD aren't paid for it, they do it out of their own pocket (or donations).
21:08 -!- _0bitcount [~BigByte@85.60.131.232] has joined #openbsd
21:08 < oldlaptop> betabube: The only one being impolite here seems to be you. Amazingly enough, people are still trying to help you anyway.
21:08 < oldlaptop> If you'd like that to continue, maybe try being polite.
21:09 < Bradipo> If something doesn't work, that's because they don't have your hardware.
21:09 < betabube> i feel like openbsd can't run on anything other than a thinkpad x61, because it is superior and all of us have to bow down to it. at least that's how the neckbeards i've met behave
21:09 < Bradipo> lol
21:09 < Bradipo> Doesn't every neckbeard claim his OS is superior in some way.
21:09 < betabube> ok i'm just not used to things not work
21:09 < oldlaptop> The OpenBSD developers do not in fact have infinite resources, and therefore do not have the ability to make sure every random piece of hardware in the world works.
21:09 < jcs> then why do you even want to use it?
21:10 < viq|w> betabube: you're going to have a bad experience with computers in general then :D
21:10 < sibiria> betabube: sorry man, i can only find my older axe (non-n) device
21:11 < Bradipo> Sometimes hardware doesn't work.  If you want it to work, you can buy some hardware and ship it to a develoepr that can make it work.  There are no free lunches here.
21:11 < hussein1> i had an axen USB3 device, it wasn't that reliable, it would fail every 6-7 months and also randomly stop sending/receiving traffic. I'm not convinced it's even openbsd's fault it had these issues
21:12 -!- quiliro` [~user@157.100.143.15] has joined #openbsd
21:12 < oldlaptop> hussein1: could that even be a gross mechanical issue?
21:12 < betabube> to feel even more superior to the people using arch. to be like drkhsh and so people respect me. tbh, i just want to give it a try and maybe someday i can be like them. i've read openbsd is simpler and i like simple things. i don't know why, maybe also because the narcisist in me tells me that i can become even cooler than already using arch with dwm and suckless philosophy 
21:12 < sibiria> i never ran my axe USB2 dongle that long, though the times i did run it it behaved well
21:12 < oldlaptop> (bad strain relief -> bad electrical connection after a modest amount of use)
21:12 < Bradipo> Maybe you should readjust your expectations and goals.
21:13 < quinq> betabube, life tips, if you want to master something, you have to study it and work with it, there's no magic
21:13 < hussein1> oldlaptop: it was a very short and rigid cable. i can't disprove the possibility.
21:13 < martian67> you aren't cool, and using openbsd isnt gonna help either
21:13 < sibiria> betabube: you sure you're not projecting now? people here have been trying to help and troubleshoot. we can't be blamed for the device not working or the OS not having a suitable driver
21:13 < betabube> quinq: yeah but what to do if the faq page doesn't tell me? it is not like i didn't put any effort into it :/
21:13 < oldlaptop> hussein1: I can just picture the tiny little solder joints inside the plastic dongle screaming
21:13 < betabube> ok np i'll just sell it then
21:14 < quinq> You come here, you explain the issue, people try to help
21:14 < betabube> or maybe gift it to openbsd, don't know if they need an intel compute stick
21:15 < Bradipo> betabube: Do you have a different NIC you can try?
21:15 -!- quiliro [~user@157.100.143.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
21:15 < betabube> maybe i should just play with openbsd.amsterdam for a year before using my own hardware
21:15 < betabube> Bradipo: sadly no, that's why i'm so frustrated, because i couldn't even give openbsd a try without an internet connection
21:16 < jcs> or buy a thinkpad x61 and grow a neckbeard
21:16 < viq|w> betabube: there's a ton of in depth manual pages in addition to FAQ
21:16 < hussein1> what to do? don't assert that people intentionally wrote the driver to annoy you with a spammy message, because that's not constructive. someone's headcanon about 'what people tell about openbsd "community" all the time' isn't very relevant to this channel, where i can assure you people don't set out to dunk on other OSes
21:17 < quinq> haha jcs 
21:17 < betabube> viq|w: yeah i really like manpages, always use them on linux, i've heard only good things about the manpages on openbsd. i'm always asking a friend if he has already jerked off to his manpages today (he is an openbsd user too)
21:17 < oldlaptop> Thinkpads tend to be a relatively safe bet for the simple reason that they (seem to be) relatively commonly-owned by openbsd developers. To a lesser extent, laptop hardware that's reasonably common in general is reasonably likely to work.
21:17 -!- sunwind [~paradox@31.111.34.236] has quit [Quit: Outside Context Problem.]
21:17 < Bradipo> Probably because laptop hardware is more "standardized".
21:17 < oldlaptop> (Thinkpad X61 does indeed work pretty well. Unfortunately the web has just about outgrown core2)
21:17 < Bradipo> If one exists, and one developer has one, then everyone wins.
21:17 < betabube> ok maybe i can install openbsd on my L570 before I sell it, good idea!
21:18 < hussein1> they also have great support for coreboot. however they're ageing and the maintenane burden is annoying. the backlight just went on one of mine
21:18 < Bradipo> Random hardware on the other hand is more difficult to support.
21:18 < sibiria> or maybe just install it in a virtual machine under virtualbox or so, to get a feel for it
21:18 < betabube> but i would loose hyper threading, one of the reasons i wanted to go with the intel stick, i wouldn't have to miss lots of performance there
21:18 < oldlaptop> ISTR L-series thinkpads are actually more or less identical to ideapads (i.e. lenovo's consumer line) internally - whether that means they're less likely to work I couldn't say.
21:18 -!- scain [~scain@2603-8080-b104-4e00-45cf-678b-0a7f-b897.res6.spectrum.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:18 < betabube> oldlaptop: you think so? even with ethernet?
21:18 < hussein1> openbsd has lower performance than linux and windows, it's an intentional tradeoff in my understanding, if you need performance imho it's fair to consider another OS
21:19 < oldlaptop> SMT ("hyper threading" in intel marketing-speak) is not much of a performance gain in general, and especially doesn't matter very much on intel hardware
21:19 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD disables it by default in any case.
21:19 < quinq> Got a T450 at werk, not really good design
21:19 < quinq> graphics always getting too hot, not booting after ~3 years of usage
21:19 < oldlaptop> quinq: I'm going to be in trouble when the web outgrows sandy bridge. (last thinkpads with vaguely good designs)
21:19 < quinq> yeah
21:19 < oldlaptop> ^ totally not an inflammatory opinion
21:19 < betabube> ok ty guys and sorry for me being such a dick, i've already got banned on my local hackerspace for my behaviour, wish i could undo it
21:20 -!- LW [~LW@i5E866B3D.versanet.de] has joined #openbsd
21:20 < sibiria> betabube: you don't really get "twice the performance" with HT. best-case scenario requires extremely well-leveraging software and it still only gets about 20% extra performance at best
21:20 < sibiria> because you simply don't have twice as many cores
21:20 < oldlaptop> sibiria: I would say 20% throughput on *AMD*'s current hardware (which derives a relatively large benefit)
21:20 < betabube> sibiria: good to know, thought it is twice performance
21:20 < quinq> betabube, change behavior, ask to come back nicely
21:20 < Lucas6023> quinq, oldlaptop: I'm quite happy with my X13 Gen2, including design-wise
21:20 < oldlaptop> even less on intel
21:20 < Lucas6023> previous Thinkbooks were T420 and X230
21:20 < Lucas6023> ehm, Thinkpads
21:21 < quinq> Thinkbads
21:21 < quinq> Thinkpooks
21:21 < betabube> Lucas6023: how do you deal with stuff you actually have to run, e.g. stuff that only runs on linux? do you dual boot then or is vmm reliable enough?
21:22 < Lucas6023> how is that even related to anything I have said, especially taking into consideration that I haven't engaged with any of your comments?
21:22 < Lucas6023> but that apart, I only run things that run on OpenBSD
21:22 < betabube> Lucas6023: just wanted to know
21:23 < betabube> Lucas6023: ok, you must be an opsec guy then, because that is totally delusional to me
21:23 < betabube> if you never have to run a zoom client for instance, you must be from a different planet :D
21:23 < sibiria> betabube: vmm is still in its infancy. no virtual GPU. only a single CPU exposed to the guest. performance isn't jaw-dropping. but it works well for most things that suffice in a VPS-esque fashion
21:23 < Lucas6023> how is opsec even related to anything in current context?!
21:23 < betabube> Lucas6023: it is related to your use case
21:24 < betabube> Lucas6023: how did you even make it to irc when you feel offended by someone asking you simple question?
21:25 < quinq> betabube, please don't bother people :)
21:25 < oldlaptop> Just be polite.
21:25 < betabube> ok then don't worry am not going to become an openbsd user i guess, i must be just too dumb, i don't even know C
21:25 < Bradipo> betabube: Zoom works on OpenBSD.
21:25 -!- sunwind [~paradox@31.111.34.236] has joined #openbsd
21:25 < oldlaptop> It isn't (or shouldn't be) that hard.
21:26 < betabube> docs would be nice though
21:26 < oldlaptop> Most 'normal' open-source software that runs on Linux also runs on OpenBSD.
21:26 < Lucas6023> betabube: indeed, it seems that OpenBSD is too complicated for you, or not up to your expectations.
21:26 < betabube> yeah and i'd have to give up on saying "btw, I'm using Arch"
21:27 < sibiria> betabube: highly recommend setting OpenBSD up on virtualbox on whatever OS you run that works well, to get a feel for it. then you can decide if you want to fight again with finding compatible hardware
21:27 < Bradipo> You would then say, "btw, I'm using OpenBSD".
21:27 < oldlaptop> (Sometimes because it's more or less portable to anything that smells like unix, sometimes because OpenBSD porters expend vast amounts of effort on making it work.)
21:27 < betabube> sibiria: why do you use openbsd when hardware compatibility is such an issue?
21:28 < Bradipo> betabube: The only relevant question at this point what do you want to do?
21:28 < fro> what a stupid question
21:28 < fro> "i can't get this to work so it must not work for anyone else"
21:29 < Lucas6023> pls fro, be more respectful. The world spins around betabube. :)
21:29 < fro> no
21:29 < sibiria> betabube: i've personally never run into hardware it didn't run on, from 20+ years of using openbsd. with the exception of some PCI wifi card, actually
21:29 < fro> this person is a jackass and isn't being "respectful"
21:29 < betabube> i want to feel superior to arch users
21:30 < sibiria> ok then run linux mint
21:30 < fro> of course there are no ops here that will deal with it
21:30 < sibiria> done, settled
21:30 < oldlaptop> betabube: That is a bad place to start.
21:30 < fro> they'll just warn me to stay on topic
21:30 < fro> etc
21:30 < quinq> fro, just take into account the age difference, no need to be aggressive
21:30 < fro> what age difference?
21:30 < betabube> ok sorry
21:30 < fro> how would i know how old this person is?
21:30 < betabube> i'm 32
21:30 < fro> also why would i care?
21:30 < quinq> Well, we can read it
21:30 < fro> i'm 39
21:31 < fro> not much of an age difference really
21:31 < fro> that makes this even worse
21:31 < betabube> how long do you run openbsd fro ?
21:31 -!- tjdaugaard [~tjdaugaar@nat-cgn9-185-107-12-178.static.kviknet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:31 < quinq> Just don't engage, it'll shut down
21:31 < fro> like 15-16 years maybe more
21:31 < betabube> maybe i should jsut get another thinkcentre m700 and install it there
21:31 < betabube> wow so long nice
21:32 < betabube> how do you think about those soystemd users?
21:32 < fro> i don't care about this
21:32 < bsandro> oldlaptop: for what it's worth SMT gives around 40% performance boost (depending on task ofc, but I've measured it with compilations around that number).
21:32 < betabube> oh, you're an emacs user then? they don't care about many things as well!
21:33 < fro> i don't use emacs
21:33 < fro> i don't know what this has to do with anything either
21:33 < codermattie> some people like to stir the pot
21:33 < betabube> i always wonder what will happen once theo retires
21:33 < oldlaptop> betabube: Are you trying to get help with OpenBSD, or are you trying to get reactions?
21:34 < fro> obviously trolling
21:34 < fro> but you know we should all be nice
21:34 < betabube> no, just like to discuss with people
21:34 < fro> and just ignore it
21:34 -!- gman999 [~GMan999@user/gman999] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.8]
21:34 < fro> because that works
21:34 < oldlaptop> Okay. Then you should try to be a little easier to tell apart from someone trolling for reactions.
21:34 < codermattie> he seems pretty ok as far as stirring things go
21:34 < betabube> ok
21:34 < codermattie> Ive seen far more
21:35 < codermattie> if you want to see a complex emacs config I have one
21:35 -!- Bradipo [~amb@50-77-44-29-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
21:35 < betabube> sometimes i just get angry when people think they are somewhat better just because they have studied or had better conditions to start with
21:35 -!- ArGGu^^ [~quassel@84-231-24-121.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
21:35 < betabube> and then it wents downhill
21:35 < betabube> codermattie: i've seen one on reddit today, 6k lines, crazy
21:36 < codermattie> betabube: opensbd is nice people and you will learn far more UNIX than anywhere else
21:36 < codermattie> betabube: you should give it a spin
21:36 < betabube> codermattie: do you need an intel compute stick?
21:37 < codermattie> Ive used it on intel
21:37 < jf> betabube what is your full dmesg line for axe0? ( dmesg | egrep '^saxe0' )
21:37 < codermattie> betabube: apple silicon failed
21:37 -!- byteskeptical [~amnesia@user/byteskeptical] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
21:37 < jf> betabube oops: dmesg | egrep '^axe0'
21:39 < jf> and you are on some home network behind the isp router / modem that handles dhcp, etc for the network inside it?
21:39 < betabube> let me check...
21:39 < hussein1> if i boot up a system and a service hangs and then i ssh in and kill the process (with kill -5) does that generate a coredump, and if so, where do i look for it?
21:39 -!- absc [absc@2a04:ee41:8:6055::4] has quit [Quit: Got to go. irctk 1.0.0-alpha]
21:39 < betabube> jf: yeah, just default setup, isp that gives me an ip over dhcp
21:39 < oldlaptop> hussein1: AIUI to the process's cwd.
21:39 < betabube> and sorry for me being such an asshole, i don't know how to stop being offended from everything and things i come up with on my own
21:40 < codermattie> betabube: your not an ass
21:40 < topcat001> the first unix I used was HP-UX :) OpenBSD has some of that retro feel (the bootup sequence for example)
21:40 < betabube> codermattie: i'm, just ask drkhsh he knows me
21:40 < codermattie> I love the opensbd bootup, I use my openbsd machine as my true unix machine
21:41 -!- Quantafac [~Quantafac@12.22.122.66] has joined #openbsd
21:41 < topcat001> it's a little silly perhaps but it is fascinating to watch :)
21:41 < jf> topcat001 so there was more than one of us! the way hp-ux handled multi-arch binaries in the same filesystem (eg an exported / shared one) was .. nuts
21:41 < codermattie> I just wish it wouldnt shit the bed on a fsck
21:42 < topcat001> jf: you mean in a good way?
21:42 < oldlaptop> codermattie: (I don't think there's a filesystem in the world that can't be corrupted under the wrong circumstances.)
21:42 < thrig> or there was, but it was too slow for any practical use
21:42 < topcat001> I've had my share of crashes but fsck is fairly quick
21:43 < jf> topcat001 no. it was .. nuts (a folder the name of the "executable", with a magic attribute, and with actual executables inside the folder that had names to match the cpu family)
21:43 < betabube> jf: https://imgur.com/a/Z96l1tF
21:43 -!- toxic063 [~toxic0@82.66.203.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:44 < topcat001> hehe yes those were quirky
21:44 < topcat001> but as with everything, you get used to it
21:44  * jf betabube imgur link has blank content
21:44 < oldlaptop> jf: pkg_add gnustep-desktop :P
21:45 < codermattie> oldlaptop: I want to master the openbsd bootloader so I can fix things on my own
21:45 < oldlaptop> (although I don't know offhand whether the gnustep people support multiple arches in their .app bundle things)
21:45 -!- format_c [~format_c@home.koeppe.rocks] has joined #openbsd
21:45 -!- format_c [~format_c@home.koeppe.rocks] has quit [Client Quit]
21:46 < betabube> jf: ohs orry https://i.imgur.com/kLEQXLJ.jpeg
21:46 < oldlaptop> Doesn't seem promising.
21:46 < jf> betabube ty. thinking
21:46 < betabube> :/
21:46 < betabube> oldlaptop: doctor, how bad does it look? 
21:46 < betabube> 5mg epi?
21:47 < oldlaptop> That's probably a sendbug case.
21:47 < betabube> also does someone know hammand from texas?
21:47 < betabube> sendbug?
21:47 < oldlaptop> https://man.openbsd.org/sendbug
21:47 < betabube> i think it is not worth it to waste time with it i mean, who would run an intel compute stick in 2023?
21:48 < oldlaptop> although: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugs&m=164832882524713&w=2
21:48 < oldlaptop> This is a separate USB dongle, correct?
21:48 < betabube> crazy, i haven't been able to find this with google O_o
21:48 < oldlaptop> There are (presumably) reasons to use those on things other than intel compute sticks. (Although probably not that many good ones.)
21:48 < betabube> yeah
21:48 < oldlaptop> Google is not a good first step for (most) things with OpenBSD.
21:49 < betabube> the problem is, the wifi on that intel compute stick has a broken driver on linux, which means, it looses connection and then one has to reboot
21:49 < oldlaptop> the FAQ and manual pages are where *good* documentation is to be found; marc.info provides full-text search on the mailing list archives
21:50 < betabube> weird, google isnt indexing them properly
21:50 < betabube> anyway ty for your helps
21:50 < jf> betabube ok, do you know if you are on a 100MB link or a 1GB link? if you try "ifconfig axen0 media 100baseTX" to force 100MB .. does the error stop?
21:50 < jf> (yes this is odd. I'm looking at https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugs&m=164845237630729&w=2
21:51 < jf> (if this was ure, i could give a much better answer. I'm much less famiiliar with axe / axen)
21:51 < betabube> jf: i think it is set to auto, but ill give it a try...
21:52 < betabube> jf: ifconfig says it is 1000baseT full-duplex,master
21:52 < jf> yes, try forcing it to 100baseTX with the command i linked above
21:52 < betabube> ok set
21:53 < jf> and .. did the errors dry up?
21:53 < betabube> they went away! but still can't ping google.at
21:53 < jf> ok. that's not great
21:53 < betabube> why not?
21:53 < jf> "ifconfig axen0 media auto" will push the thing back into autonegotiation
21:54 < betabube> 100 mbit woould be more than enoough, i only have 50 mbit/s from my isp
21:54 < jf> yes, but the other end of the cable has to understand / negotiate the xfer settings
21:54 < betabube> jf: but when the errors are away, how can i get ping to yahoo.com work?
21:54 < betabube> oh ok hmm
21:55 < jf> so if you say "ifconfig axen0 media 100baseTX" then the ethernet device at the other end of the cable has to figure that out and conform. sometimes that isn't .. "great"
21:55 < betabube> oh hmm you're right, my router no longer shows it connected
21:55 < jf> ya
21:55 < jf> so, turn the "auto" back on (that is the default)
21:56 < betabube> anyway, thanks for the help, i just sell it
21:56 < jf> and the router / device will spend a few seconds figuring out how to communicate again
21:57 -!- toxic063 [~toxic0@82.66.203.96] has joined #openbsd
21:57 < jf> I understand you have a different device. I have used these for "years" ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0838W1NLF ). 
21:57 < betabube> "dear isp, pls send me an old router with 100baseTX ethernet, thanks a lot!"
21:57 < jf> lol
21:57 < jf> it should autonegotiate
21:58 < betabube> jf: lol, it is that easy? just get a different usb adapter?
21:58 < jf> if you add "media 100baseTX" at the TOP of your "/etc/hostname.axen0" and reboot
21:58 < jf> then try
21:58 < oldlaptop> If the problem is with the USB adapter, or with its driver, it would stand to reason that replacing the USB adapter would work around the problem.
21:58 < oldlaptop> (Or at least replace it with a different problem.)
21:59 < jf> these ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z8S6PN4 ) do not auto negotiate 1GB correctly and fall back to 100MB. best avoid them.
21:59 < jf> so the two I linked are ure
21:59 < jf> yours is axen
21:59 < jf> different driver
21:59 -!- Quantafac [~Quantafac@12.22.122.66] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:59 < betabube> axen... amazon
22:00 < jf> axe / axen: just a different chipset. I have .. opinions .. on the ure devices, even though they are realtek.
22:00 < betabube> if i ever get banned here, that would make a nice short username, axen0, hey axen0 how are you? yeah i'm fine
22:01 < betabube> so bad they don't write it in the description of amazon
22:01 < jf> so, summary: "ifconfig axen0 media 100baseTX" == "use 100MB". "ifconfig axen0 media auto" == "figure it out yourself"
22:02 < betabube> ok cool good to know
22:02 -!- Bradipo [~amb@50-77-44-29-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #openbsd
22:03 < jf> that email i linked suggests that different hardware revisions of the same chipset are .. quite different
22:03 < betabube> jf: do i just need to make sure it has realtek?
22:04 -!- Chargen [~macbethwi@user/Chargen] has joined #openbsd
22:04 < quinq> If it works in 100Mb, just use 100Mb
22:04 < betabube> Realtek Semiconductor Corp. RTL8153
22:04 < jf> so, not ALL RTL work. same as not ALL AXE / AXEN work
22:04 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd
22:04 < betabube> quinq: i guess it would work in 100mb but my router is bad :/
22:04 -!- toxic063 [~toxic0@82.66.203.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
22:05 < jf> and amazon is really bad at telling you what the chipset is
22:05 -!- toxic063 [~toxic0@82.66.203.96] has joined #openbsd
22:05 < oldlaptop> In many cases an apropos query for one of those chip models will be useful.
22:06 < oldlaptop> (Or for the chip vendor's name.)
22:06 < jf> https://man.openbsd.org/ure has some info. kind of like https://man.openbsd.org/axen / https://man.openbsd.org/axe having info.
22:06 < jf> when buying, you care very much about the chipset and, if the manual page is specific about the vendor, about the vendor
22:06 < oldlaptop> (note that https://man.openbsd.org/?query=rtl8153&apropos=1 redirects to the ure page :))
22:06 < hussein1> oldlaptop: i don't know what the processes cwd is, i only saw it in ps aux 
22:06 < jf> (I have contributed ure code, which is why I have a bias to ure)
22:07 < oldlaptop> hussein1: I suppose you could guess :|
22:07 -!- deepesttoaster [~deepestto@user/deepesttoaster] has joined #openbsd
22:07 < hussein1> i checked /etc/rc.d...
22:07 < oldlaptop> judging from my core files chrome's cwd is usually ~oldlaptop
22:07 < oldlaptop> I would bet food's cwd is ~_food
22:07 < betabube> jf: but are you sure openbsd73 comes with the required firmware? because when i've installed it, i didn't have an internet connection and it asked me to download from firmware.openbsd.org but i couldn't do that so i just "skipped" it i guess with "done"?
22:07 < jf> if the binary was called "wibble" you could "find / -name wibble.core -print"
22:07 -!- _0bitcount [~BigByte@85.60.131.232] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:08 < hussein1> it was relayd so relayd.core i guess
22:08 < jf> betabube this is not a firmware thing
22:08 < oldlaptop> hussein1: relayd would normally have more than one process
22:08 < oldlaptop> not sure how that would interact with whatever you did
22:09 < oldlaptop> betabube: realtek stuff will generally not need fw_update.
22:09 < jf> (look in ~root/ for relayd.core)
22:09 < hussein1> ahh, found /ksh.core
22:09 < betabube> hmm... one more idea, am going to try if i can connect it to my android phone and use the hotspot over usb, don't know if that would work
22:09 < hussein1> wonderful
22:11 < jf> betabube if you set your android phone to tether mode and connect it (via usb) it will probably show up as https://man.openbsd.org/urndis
22:12 -!- Foxy_ [~fox@user/Foxy/x-8224177] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.0.2]
22:12 < jf> so, you will need something like "echo dhcp > /etc/hostname. urndis0" followed by "sh /etc/netstart urndis0"
22:12 -!- Foxy_ [~fox@user/Foxy/x-8224177] has joined #openbsd
22:12 < jf> "etc/hostname.urndis0" .. no space. 
22:13 < jf> grr. "/etc/hostname.urndis0". one day i promise to learn to type
22:13 < betabube> jf: why echo dhcp into /etc/hostname.urndis0? and not "inet autoconf"?
22:13 < jf> oops!@
22:14 < jf> yes! I am using old-style
22:14 < jf> you are correct
22:14 < jf> sorry about that
22:14 < betabube> :D
22:14 < betabube> oh ok
22:14 < oldlaptop> dhcp worked before there was `inet autoconf`
22:14 < oldlaptop> (and presumably will continue to work if the way dhcp is handled ever changes again)
22:14 < jf> indeed. and .. my systems are updated but my brain is not
22:15 -!- jacobk [~quassel@utdpat241106.utdallas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
22:15 -!- fspax [~fspax@host-185-209-29-241.hosted-by-vdsina.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
22:16 < betabube> jf: you're sure it is hostname.urndis, the device appears as ugen0?
22:17 < oldlaptop> It would be hostname.urndis if it was going to work.
22:17 < oldlaptop> ugen(4) is not a network device
22:17 < oldlaptop> (Perhaps the phone isn't in tethering mode, or perhaps it doesn't support tethering as a urndis(4))
22:19 < jf> +1 for "check tethering mode"
22:20 < betabube> but ifconfig doesn't show an interface, there is only lo0, enc0 and pflog0
22:20 < betabube> maybe it is enc0?
22:22 < sibiria> no
22:23 < sibiria> that's encapsulatin interface for ipsec
22:23 < codermattie> betabube: in the log run compatible hardware will save weeks of debugging
22:23 < jf> so, the firmware thing: think of the usb ethernet device as a little computer. it needs to know how to talk to whatever it is plugged in to. "most" usb devices have built-in firmware (in a rom, loaded when the device powers up). sometimes there is no rom and no firmware built-in to the device hardware. in these cases there is a need for firmware to come from somewhere. ure / axen /axen (and others) have their firmware on a rom on the device and do not need
22:23 < jf>  anything from the host/os
22:24 -!- fifi [~fifi@188.47.117.4.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:24 < betabube> ;w;
22:24 < betabube> i've the worst luck
22:25 < betabube> no urndis, no axen
22:25 < jf> when you plug in a device, it will get logged in dmesg. looking at the last lines of the output of dmesg can help you understand what the device presents as and how the os wants to understand / use the device
22:25 -!- jacobk [~quassel@utdpat241106.utdallas.edu] has joined #openbsd
22:25 < jf> the phone will not give you an axen. not ever.
22:26 < codermattie> betabube: can you do a hotspot on your phone?
22:26 < betabube> i still thinkg it should be hostname.ugen0 because thats what appears when i connect the usb and turn on thethering
22:27 < jf> well, that is a reasonable path of thinking .. except .. ugen is not an ethernet device. look at https://man.openbsd.org/ugen
22:27 < betabube> i give up :/
22:27 < codermattie> betabube: get compatible hardware, thinkpad or framework
22:28 < jf> when you plug in a usb device there is a search through the vendor id and the device id (two 16 bit unsigned numbers) looking for the a driver that understands the device based on the combination of vendor / id
22:28 < betabube> i'll try to enable wifi from bios, maybe it works better on openbsd
22:28 < jf> if there is no match then the os basically goes "shrug. let's make it a ugen"
22:29 < jf> but .. if you have an ethernet device (ie all the os calls to do ethernet-stuff) then the vendor / id combination has to match something that a device driver (axe / axen / ure .. etc) has declared.
22:30 -!- talos [~talos@2600:6c5d:0:4b06:65e6:269c:5a4d:4acb] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
22:30 < jf> the usb driver source is basically "yo kernel, i recognize these combinations of vendor / id as devices i can, y'know, manage. if you find a match, i'm your code. if not, don't ask me"
22:31 < betabube> lol
22:31 < betabube> yo sup :D
22:31 -!- Guru_DE [~guru@200-231-142-46.pool.kielnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:31 < sibiria> to be technically correct, the driver's greeting is actually "how do you do, fellow kernel"
22:31 < jf> (i'm waiting for oldlaptop to stop laughing, but .. yeah .. that's basically what happens)
22:31 < betabube> definitely more kind than me :)
22:32 < betabube> ok, rebooted, i've iwm0 now, but need to read about wireless first
22:32 < jf> oooo
22:32 < jf> that's a good sign
22:32 < jf> you need the iwm firmware
22:32 < betabube> could not read firmware iwm-7265-17 error 2 hmm
22:33 < jf> "ifconfig iwm0 inet autoconf up"
22:33 < oldlaptop> That's what you need fw_update for
22:33 < betabube> should i download it and put it on an usb stick?
22:33 < oldlaptop> That's one option.
22:33 < sibiria> betabube: yes
22:33 < betabube> ah i see, fw_update -p /mnt ?
22:33 < jf> so, iwm is one of those devices that needs firmware
22:33 < betabube> because it is proprietary?
22:33 -!- Chargen [~macbethwi@user/Chargen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:33 < betabube> ok i'll prepare then ...
22:34 < oldlaptop> Specifically, because the license intel distributes the firmware under is not acceptable for inclusion in OpenBSD
22:34 < oldlaptop> (where the license for, say, rtwn(4) is acceptable)
22:34 < jf> see here: http://firmware.openbsd.org/firmware/7.3/
22:34 < oldlaptop> rtwn(4)'s firmware, I should say - the driver itself is OpenBSD's code, of course it's under an acceptable license for OpenBSD
22:35 < jf> you need the iwm firmware
22:35 < jf> maybe a usb stick (FAT filesystem)
22:35 -!- danilogondolfo [~danilogon@37.228.206.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:36 < jf> if / when you get http://firmware.openbsd.org/firmware/7.3/iwm-firmware-20230306.tgz onto a local (to your machine) filesystem
22:36 -!- Guru_DE [~guru@200-231-142-46.pool.kielnet.net] has joined #openbsd
22:36 -!- LW [~LW@i5E866B3D.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 3.8]
22:36 -!- yu [~yu@user/yu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:36 -!- jf [~jf@user/jonfle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:37 -!- yu [~yu@user/yu] has joined #openbsd
22:37 -!- jf [~jf@user/jonfle] has joined #openbsd
22:37 < jf> (and then reboot)
22:37 < betabube> there is no lsblk on openbsd :D
22:38 < jf> look at the last lines of dmesg
22:39 < betabube> sd1
22:39 < jf> and this is a usb stick with a filesystem on it?
22:39 -!- bouncy [~ben@user/benoit] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
22:39 < betabube> fat 32
22:40 < jf> "disklabel sd1"
22:40 < betabube> ty ty jf :)
22:40 < betabube> so it is mounted now...
22:40 -!- Chargen [~macbethwi@user/Chargen] has joined #openbsd
22:40 < jf> good
22:41 < jf> now the fw_update with the location of the firmware
22:41 < betabube> ok added
22:41 < betabube> now i reboot :)
22:41 < jf> y
22:41 < jf> i'm hoping we get a machine with a viable iwm interface
22:41 -!- bouncy [~ben@user/benoit] has joined #openbsd
22:42 < jf> at which point we can ignore the axen (/etc/hostname.axen0) and setup the iwm (/etc/hostname.iwm0)
22:42 -!- rnsanchez [~rnsanchez@2804:14d:2c92:1a8c:aa05:e32c:5200:34e0] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
22:42 < betabube> omg.....
22:42 < betabube> <^_^< >^_^> let's find out
22:43 < jf> easiest thing to try .. first is "ifconfig iwm0 scan" .. which is "hello world, what networks can you see"
22:43 < betabube> ok see my network
22:43 < jf> cool!
22:43 < betabube> little bit confused there is no auto completion
22:44 < jf> i'm going to bend channel rules here and make a multi-line paste-o
22:44 < jf> so
22:44 -!- grobi [~grobi@user/grobi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:44 < betabube> ok :D
22:44 -!- rnsanchez [~rnsanchez@2804:14d:2c92:1a8c:aa05:e32c:5200:34e0] has joined #openbsd
22:44 < jf> first line: nwid "NETWORK" wpakey "PASSWORD"
22:44 < jf> the quotes matter
22:45 < jf> second line: inet autoconf
22:45 < jf> third line: up
22:45 < oldlaptop> openbsd ksh does not come with a bazillion and three nifty autocomplete files by default
22:45 < jf> if you still have a /etc/hostname.axen0 then let's get that out of the way: "mv /etc/hostname.axen0 /root/"
22:45 < oldlaptop> (Maybe someone's done autocomplete support for wifi networks? I'd guess not offhand.)
22:45 -!- brocashelm [~brocashel@50.37.93.9] has joined #openbsd
22:45 -!- brocashelm [~brocashel@50.37.93.9] has quit [Changing host]
22:45 -!- brocashelm [~brocashel@user/brocashelm] has joined #openbsd
22:46 < jf> let me know a) if that makes sense and b) once you are done
22:47 < jf> (with apologies to oldlaptop for bending docum)
22:47 < betabube> omg <^_^< >^_^> jf !!!
22:47 < jf> "decorum" ffs auto-carrot
22:48 -!- byteskeptical [~amnesia@user/byteskeptical] has joined #openbsd
22:48 < jf> betabube all good? those three lines in /etc/hostname.iwm0 make sense to you?
22:48 < betabube> ty ty ty oldlaptop jf fro codermattie sibiria quinq Lucas6023 viq|w Bradipo ty ty i'm connected now and can ping google.at !! <^_^< >^_^>
22:48 < jf> \o/
22:49 < codermattie> betabube: congrats!
22:49 < fro> what i specifically did not help you
22:49 < betabube> tyty :D
22:49 < jf> welcome to your working openbsd install. now, the learning can begin.
22:49 < fro> could have figured this all out on your own by reading the faq!
22:49 < betabube> why u helped me such a dick i'm but u still helped me :3
22:49 < jf> "man afterboot"
22:49 < oldlaptop> jf: (the topic specifically says "3+ line" anyway)
22:50 < betabube> ty ty much fro do :)
22:50 < fro> anyway glad it works regardless
22:50 < jf> why did i help? well, you seemed to have good intentions, despite being a bit frustrated at the beginner. so, given my presumption of your good intentions, what is there to lose by trying to help you?
22:50 < jf> *at the beginning
22:51 < betabube> ok i'll let it run this night, hope it stays connected not like linux driver 
22:51 < jf> openbsd is .. a bit different. there is more effort in GETTING it working. there is less effort in KEEPING it working.
22:51 < fro> i don't agree with that
22:52 < betabube> pls fingers crosses the driver works on bsd and doesn't stop working after 10 hours
22:52 < fro> it's pretty easy to get it working imo
22:52 < oldlaptop> Effort in *getting* it working is perhaps easy to conflate with effort spent *learning*
22:52 < jf> fro. ok. that's totally ok for you to say. and for a beginner used to linux / windows ... it is kinda how it goes
22:53 < fro> i mean what do you think i used before i used openbsd?
22:53 < fro> and it's easier to use now than it was back then
22:53 < oldlaptop> understanding (say) the hysterical raisins behind disklabel is a heavy lift at first, IME.
22:53 < fro> it's just silly to focus on this narrative
22:53 < betabube> ok just need to install avahi but i should find that myself :)
22:53 < brocashelm> openbsd is very simple to use. it just suffers from hiccups due to the default fs type
22:53 < jf> I have been at this for ... a quarter of a century. it is easy and automatic and muscle-memory for me. and for someone arriving fresh from a windows install .. it is very differnt
22:53 < brocashelm> so it's still getting there on the desktop
22:54 < betabube> jf: btw..... I'm .... :D :D
22:54 < jf> so my "GETTING" is "first time" and my "KEEPING" is "forever onwards"
22:54 < fro> different != difficult
22:54 < oldlaptop> setting up a partition layout is pretty easy once you understand how all that stuff works, but even a windows user who's done partition layout isn't going to know how it all works already
22:54 < fro> anyway doesn't matter
22:54 < fro> we can have different opinions
22:55 < oldlaptop> (keeping with that example, I would say openbsd's approach to partitioning on amd64 is pretty much categorically "more difficult" insofar as you generally have *two* partition tables at minimum)
22:55 < betabube> a new baby is born -> https://i.imgflip.com/7whn0f.jpg
22:56 < jf> so betabube. welcome to a running OpenBSD system. there is a lot more to learn. good luck, ask here. and if not here then the mailing list is the official source of support
22:56 < betabube> jf: ok how much to pay you?
22:56 < jf> betabube "pay it forward". learn how to do this. teach someone who is struggling.
22:56 < sibiria> you don't pay. first one is free... friend
22:57 < betabube> ok drkhsh will be proud of me :D
22:57 < brocashelm> jf: https://www.openbsdfoundation.org/donations.html
22:58 < betabube> i hope you don't dump me for switching shell ^^
22:58 < oldlaptop> linux doesn't quite understand openbsd partitioning either, by the way (as anyone who's set up a dual-boot system and paid attention to linux's dmesg can likely tell you - it knows what a disklabel is, but not that it's reasonable for the disklabel to reference partitions outside the 'slice')
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23:00 < jf> brocashelm yup. i have a recurring donation. you can also find my name on https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html starting with a commit in maybe 2004.
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23:01 < betabube> jf: which shell do you use?
23:01 < jf> betabube so, a shell thing. make sure the root shell is one in the base system
23:01 < jf> make a user shell anything you want
23:01 < betabube> ok cool
23:01 < jf> (i use ksh)
23:01 < betabube> i hope some of you bow down to rms 
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23:01 < betabube> ksh O_o
23:01 < oldlaptop> (you're perhaps not as likely as you think you are to want to bother changing the default)
23:01 < betabube> but ksh... no completions at all?
23:02 < betabube> i'm just used to gnu readline keybindings
23:02 < betabube> and it looks like ksh doesn't do my gnu fetish a favor
23:02 < oldlaptop> openbsd ksh(1) does tab-completion, but there won't be as many special completion files floating around by default as there might be for bash on a typical linux box
23:02 < jf> I've seen some folks have problems with (eg) fish on a sysupgrade because .. the libraries changed and fish is in ports .. so fish running on the new system did not recognize the new libraries
23:02 < betabube> but better just read the manpage before saying anything stupid
23:03 < oldlaptop> (it is sometimes relevant that openbsd ksh is derived from pdksh, and is therefore not compatible with whatever the final iteration of AT&T ksh was)
23:03 < jf> .. so .. for root .. keep something from /bin . for a regular user .. pick anything you want
23:03 < oldlaptop> Really, "don't change root's shell" is good advice for pretty much any unixoid.
23:04 < jf> +1
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23:06 < brocashelm> jf: cool :)
23:06 < brocashelm> i also chipped in
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23:11 < pardis> you shouldn't be logging in as root often enough to *want* to change root's shell anyway
23:11 < pardis> if you really want to use your user's shell as root, 'doas -s' will achieve that
23:12 < sibiria> su -m
23:12 < jf> if you have the avaiable disposable income .. make a recurring donation. makes it easier for financial planning. of course, any donation is better than no donation. so, thank you.
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23:13 < pardis> yes, various other things will also achieve it
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23:14 < jf> and .. teaching / helping others is a good thing. some folks find money cheaper than time. others find time cheaper than money. everyone has their own situation.
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23:17 < betabube> i've just one more question: when i try to install a package i a lways get " TLS handshake failure: ocsp verify failed: ocsp response not current" i've already changed the /etc/installurl from cdn to ftp as some suggested but no luck :/
23:18 < jf> my /etc/installurl has a single line "https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD"
23:18 < pardis> betabube: is your clock set correctly? what does 'date' say?
23:18 < jf> paris ooh, hadn't thought of that
23:18 < betabube> oh it says 20 august 12 o clock pardis O_o
23:19 < jf> *pardis
23:19 < sibiria> https://ftp.eu.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD    bona fide mirror if you're in europe
23:19 < betabube> austria ty sibiria 
23:21 < jf> i presume ntpd is running?
23:21 < jf> if your computer's clock was previously set to windows the ntpd might be slowly moving it to the right time
23:22 < jf> "ntpctl -s status" will tell you what ntpd thinks is going on
23:22 < sibiria> you can also just:  rdate ntp.kth.se   (or some other ntp server)
23:22 < betabube> jf: it says ntpd(ok) but date still shows 20 august
23:23 < betabube> 5/5 peers valid, clock unsynced hmm
23:23 < jf> "unsynced" is that magic word here
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23:23 < betabube> ty sibiria now it works!
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23:25 < betabube> just installing htop, kinda slow hmm
23:25 < betabube> yaya it wored!
23:25 < pardis> pkg_add is slow
23:26 < betabube> better compile things on your own?
23:27 < fro> no
23:27 < pardis> if you want it to be even slower, maybe
23:27 < betabube> i'll build weechat 4.0 :)
23:27 < betabube> always wanted to feel like a gentoo user!
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 22 00:00:26 2023