--- Log opened Thu Aug 24 00:00:59 2023
00:02 < Bradipo> Yeah, I wouldn't even bother with mail.  I would just rm the file. :-)
00:03 < adonis> lol, I mean file will come back and eventually I will prob need to do edits (not remove all messages)
00:04 < adonis> aha, ok.. so doas mail -u <user> works..
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00:15 < GnarledHorn> For those who are anxiously awaiting an update, I just received an email sent from gmail to my newly stood up OpenSMTPD server. 
00:16 < Bradipo> Yeah, receving email is easy.
00:16 < Bradipo> Was it done over TLS? :-)
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00:18 < GnarledHorn> definitely - I set up certs using acme
00:18 < Bradipo> Haha, does TLS provide the kind of "privacy" and "security" you want with SMTP? :-)
00:19 < Bradipo> You may be running TLS on your inbound, but what guarantee do you have that the relaying party works correctly?
00:19 < GnarledHorn> oh yeah, sure. email is a postcard and all that
00:19 < Bradipo> Yep, just as long as you realize that.
00:20 < Bradipo> Only way to have any kind of security/privacy is PGP (or some other end to end encryption).
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06:10 < senzilla> hirigaray: ah yeah, Tow-Boot is awesome! But yeah, I never got it working properly with OpenBSD. Indeed, uboot from pkgsrc works better
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06:14 < senzilla> I still have some stability issues with OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro. The display is a bit unreliable and the systems freezes from time to time. But my Pinebook Pro is the first batch from 3-4 years ago. I know they have been making small hardware improvements since then
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16:19 < villehardouin> Does anyone here use the rEFInd boot manager to boot into encrypted OpenBSD? If so, can you share your refind.conf file?
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17:23 < villehardouin> Does anyone here use rEFInd to boot their encrypted OpenBSD? If so, can you share your refind.conf, please?
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17:54 < hirigaray> senzilla: so, to get this working, i'd have to wipe tow-boot and try without it?
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17:56 < senzilla> hirigaray: Yes, wipe Tow-Boot from your SPI flash, and instead build U-Boot from pkgsrc, or fetch a pre-built version from NetBSDs package repo (it's not OS dependent, so you can use the NetBSD build)
17:56 < senzilla> And flash that onto SPI
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17:57 < senzilla> It's a lot more "finicky" because you don't have the nice curses menu installation interface that Tow-Boot provides
17:58 < senzilla> I have some notes I can share. one moment....
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17:59 < senzilla> hirigaray: https://gitlab.com/senzilla/dotfiles/-/raw/main/tools/openbsd/install.pinebook-pro.md?ref_type=heads
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18:00 < senzilla> Very brief notes, but I'm sure they'll give you some direction 🙂
18:01 < sibiria> what about tow-boot causes problems with booting openbsd?
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18:06 < senzilla> I'm not exactly sure. But afaik they use both different versions of uboot and different patch sets. So, lots of variability between these two builds
18:06 < senzilla> sibiria: ^
18:07 < adi_onl> Hi, any tips on doing STM32 development on OpenBSD. I installed stlink, but doas st-info --probe gives me Found 0 stlink programmers. My board is not detected in dmesg, not sure if normal.
18:07 < senzilla> hirigaray: did you try Tow-Boot with the latest release from July?
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18:58 < villehardouin> senzilla Would you know how to get rEFInd working with encrypted OpenBSD
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19:24 < gnucode> villehardouin: Are you hoping to dual boot OpenBSD?
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19:25 < senzilla> villehardouin: No idea. I've never run OpenBSD on Apple hardware
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19:55 < hirigaray> senzilla: I haven't
19:56 < hirigaray> actually, I am not sure... :thinking:
19:56 < hirigaray> I got my pinebook pro in june, but I'm not sure when I actually stuck tow-boot on it
19:57 < hirigaray> oh mine is 2021-10 apparently
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20:32 < orwell> Is it possible to use ldap and local accounts? Whenever i set ldap,passwd in as auth method in login.conf passwd logins are not possible and when i set passwd,ldap ldap logins are not possible. I can use user:passwd to login via password, but then doas doesn't work with local passwords
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20:37 < senzilla> hirigaray: might be worth trying the latest release. they brought uboot up to the same version as pkgsrc. that could have fixed the issue
20:37 < senzilla> hirigaray: please report back if you're successful 🙂
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21:01 < orwell> different login classes is the way
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21:05 < villehardouin> senzilla rEFInd isn't Apple specific ;)
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21:05 < villehardouin> gnucode Yes I am
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21:27 < hirigaray> senzilla: yes :D i am dd'íng the install image right now... let's see
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21:32 < hirigaray> nope... :( stuck at ohci0 at mainbus0 :( 
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21:46 < hirigaray> if I turn on verbose, it keeps probing a bunch of stuff, and then it says "ohci probe won" and then it gets stuck on "ohci0 at mainbus0", how odd...
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21:51 < villehardouin> If I were to dual boot OpenBSD and Linux would I put the bsd kernel file in the Linux boot partition?
21:51 < villehardouin> Does OpenBSD need boot partition?
21:51 < villehardouin> its own boot partition that is
21:52 < sibiria> it does not. it places the kernel on /
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21:53 < sibiria> all of openbsd's resources are contained inside its own partition
21:53 < pardis> it is a good idea to understand how OpenBSD boots when it is the only OS before attempting a dual boot
21:53 < sibiria> incl. its own bootloader
21:53 < villehardouin> sibiria Ok so I could have /dev/sda1 be the Linux boot partition, /dev/sda2 be the Linux root partition, then have /dev/sda3 just be the OpenBSD partition
21:53 < pardis> sibiria: that's only true with BIOS booting
21:53 < sibiria> villehardouin: yes
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21:53 < pardis> with UEFI, its bootloader goes on the EFI system partition, as for any other OS
21:53 < villehardouin> I just need to know how rEFInd or GRUB finds the kernel to boot. especially if the partition is encrypted
21:54 < pardis> you should not boot the OpenBSD kernel with anything other than the OpenBSD bootloader
21:54 < pardis> if you have another bootloader, chainload the OpenBSD bootloader
21:54 < villehardouin> And the OpenBSD bootloader will do the decrypting then
21:54 < pardis> correct
21:55 < villehardouin> Ok. I need to figure out how to do this with refind, since I hear that's easier than grub
21:56 < villehardouin> maybe refind auto finds it, i'll have to experiment with it. thank you pardis sibiria just needed to know the disk set up
21:56 < villehardouin> now i know
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21:58 < villehardouin> pardis The bootloader should be something like BOOTX64.EFI right?
21:58 < pardis> yes
21:58 < villehardouin> Thanks i think i know what to do now
22:00 < xse> multiboot depends a lot on your system/setup, here i did use efibootmgr from a linux live system to create the openbsd entry but besides that there was no need for grub/refind
22:02 < villehardouin> @xse My plan is to have an unencrypted EFI system partition (/dev/sda1), an encrypted Linux root partition (/dev/sda2)---which is what I currently have---then have an encrypted OpenBSD partition (/dev/sda3)
22:03 < villehardouin> So I need to add room for an OpenBSD partition, go through the installation, then add the BOOTX64.EFI (bootloader) as a menuentry in reEFInd
22:04 < betabube> good night, openbsd users
22:04 < villehardouin> Since I was told that the OpenBSD loader handles encrypted root
22:04 < betabube> btw why is it called openbased sometimes?
22:04 < betabube> what is based?
22:06 < xse> i meant more like "can your computer do the efi boot selection" or "gpt/mbr". I guess encryption should not be an issue at least it was not in my case
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22:12 < villehardouin> xse Yes you're right. refind/grub is probably unnecessary I just like refind for some reason
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22:15 < sibiria> betabube: openbased? never heard that :)
22:17 < betabube> sibiria: some sort of slang? young people use "based"
22:18 < villehardouin> betabube https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/910/666/38c.jpg
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22:19 < sibiria> betabube: i would guess some assumptive brainfart over the acronym, or just lingual extrapolation to make it roll of the toungue easier
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22:19 < sibiria> off the tongue*
22:20 < betabube> lol my feelings :D
22:20 < betabube> i think based is like woke, don't know them, just heard them
22:20 < betabube> wokeBSD?
22:20 < sibiria> based being opposite of woke - lucid and rational, down to earth etc.
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22:21 < betabube> based == stoned?
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22:21 < sibiria> freebsd = "freebased"
22:21 < betabube> sorry didnt want to be ot
22:22 < villehardouin> When you say something or someone is based, you're basically saying you agree with that person or that thing's being.
22:22 < villehardouin> Also woke is almost always associated with the left
22:23 < betabube> woke, open and based
22:25 < villehardouin> woke: "aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)"
22:25 < villehardouin> So if you promote racial and social justice then I guess you're woke
22:26 < betabube> oh no
22:26 < betabube> far right needs cool words too
22:26 < pony> this is a bit off topic
22:26 < sibiria> woke people mostly strike me as being completely cognitively dissonant and in constant emotional turmoil
22:27 < sibiria> surely they cannot be running OpenBased Operating System
22:27 < villehardouin> woke people use macOS, windows 11, ubuntu
22:28 < villehardouin> mostly macOS tho
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22:29 < sibiria> pony: and you're an equid. how do you even know about common human topics
22:30 < sibiria> villehardouin: i don't think the macOS part is true. they're known for being work-shy and have no ability to acquire funds for proper hardware to run macOS on
22:30 < pony> Political discussions and other incendiary topics are unwelcome.
22:30 < pony> (topic)
22:31 < sibiria> thanks for the reminder. finger-waving at people is always a very good contribution
22:32 < pony> ....
22:32 < lennox> atleast if your going to troll be good. 
22:32 < villehardouin> you're*
22:32 < villehardouin> at least*
22:33 < sibiria> hirigaray: i wonder... do you run the updated keyboard/trackpad firmware or the stock one? if updated, which one specifically?
22:34 < sibiria> i wonder if there might be something about the kb/trackpad firmware that will affect how it *responds* on the bus, not just how the keyboard or the trackpad behaves in active use
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22:41 < hirigaray> sibiria: i run the updated firmware, yes, but I don't recall which one... 
22:41 < hirigaray> and there might be!!! I thought about that too...
22:41 < hirigaray> I'm unfortunately not experienced enough to debug this myself :( 
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23:00 < GwenNelson> a yoi yoi hoy
23:00 < GwenNelson> anyone know of any projects using OpenBSD as a mobile platform?
23:00 < GwenNelson> as in, phones
23:00 < GwenNelson> or if not obsd, one of the other BSDs
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23:04 < Bradipo> I thought I saw a rumor about OpenBSD and the Pine Phone.
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23:06 < villehardouin> GwenNelson no bsds for smartphones. i don't even know what that'd look like
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23:06 < Bradipo> I would definitely buy one if there were one.
23:06 < villehardouin> also we can see your ip address
23:06 < Bradipo> Even if I have to dial from a console terminal, that would be cool.
23:06 < GwenNelson> Bradipo: i think obsd boots to UART
23:07 < GwenNelson> not sure if the USB stack is supported
23:07 < GwenNelson> if the USB stack works, you should be able to dial using AT commands
23:07 < GwenNelson> but the power management chip isn't supported
23:07 < GwenNelson> including thermal management
23:07 < GwenNelson> which makes it dangerous
23:07 < Bradipo> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-arm&w=2&r=1&s=pinephone&q=b
23:08 < GwenNelson> pinephone and pinephone pro are different SoCs by the way
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23:08 < GwenNelson> it certainly doesn't look usable in the current state
23:08 < Bradipo> Nope.
23:09 < Bradipo> https://research.exoticsilicon.com/series/pinephone_openbsd
23:09 < GwenNelson> it'd certainly be nice to get it working and build a mobile-specific distro
23:09 < GwenNelson> Bradipo: read that page already
23:09 < Bradipo> Oh.
23:09 < GwenNelson> i was just wondering if there's any other devices that people have got working
23:09 < GwenNelson> though the pinephone is designed to be open
23:09 < GwenNelson> i've also pondered porting drivers to obsd from NuttX
23:10 < Bradipo> There may be.  This is hardly a large audience though.
23:10 < GwenNelson> not sure on licensing
23:10 < hirigaray> well... i'm having trouble with putting OpenBSD on the pine_book_ which should be easier... (and it is already supported)
23:10 < GwenNelson> there may be a commercial market for an ultra-secure smartphone
23:10 < hirigaray> so the pinephone would be harder
23:10 < villehardouin> "ultra-secure" "smartphone". pick one
23:10 < GwenNelson> villehardouin: heh, well, as secure as can be
23:10 < GwenNelson> you get what i meant
23:11 < GwenNelson> i'm thinking, a device that allows basic phone calls, encrypted chat and simple web browsing
23:12 < critr> villehardouin: haha, i was just thinking the same thing.
23:12 < Bradipo> Well, if you can get OpenBSD on such a device, the only risk would be if there is some backdoor in the hardware that allows a remote attack against the platform itself.
23:12 < GwenNelson> leah: you in here?
23:12 < leah> yes, GwenNelson 
23:12 < GwenNelson> Bradipo: which is why using a device with open hardware and isolating the modem makes sense
23:12 < GwenNelson> in the pinephone, the modem is isolated and treated as untrusted
23:12 < GwenNelson> it talks over USB
23:12 < leah> but you surely could see that i am here
23:12 < GwenNelson> and you can actually reflash the modem
23:13 < GwenNelson> leah: i meant more "are you reading the chat"
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23:13 < GwenNelson> cos we were just talking about this stuff
23:13 < GwenNelson> ideally, free modem firmware would be the big win
23:13 < critr> my next cellphone, if there is one, will surely be a pinephone.
23:13 < GwenNelson> but there's legal issues
23:13 < GwenNelson> critr: i've got a pinephone, it's nice but underpowered
23:13 < GwenNelson> i'm running mobian on it
23:13 < Bradipo> I mean some kind of remote exploit that allows a malicious actor to dump memory from the hardware.
23:13 < GwenNelson> manjaro, which it shipped with, is awful
23:14 < pardis> <GwenNelson> or if not obsd, one of the other BSDs
23:14 < pardis> the iPhone
23:14 < GwenNelson> pardis: ha! technically true, but hardly in the spirit of what i'm asking
23:14 < leah> isn't apple stuff mach/darwin based
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23:15 < GwenNelson> yeah, Darwin is basically mach+FreeBSD
23:15 < critr> GwenNelson: i won't be using it much as a cellphone, except via ethernet. i just want a pocket computer.
23:15 < GwenNelson> critr: get the keyboard attachment, it's awesome
23:15 < GwenNelson> but also, be prepared to do some fiddling to make it work well
23:16 < GwenNelson> things like screen rotation etc
23:16 < critr> well that's half the fun.
23:16 < villehardouin> critr are pinephones still expensive? my ten-year-old smartphone *might* be disconnected this year as per automated texts i've been receiving, so i might have to get a new one
23:16 < GwenNelson> i also found the userland keyboard driver is better
23:16 < GwenNelson> villehardouin: they're about $199 plus P&P
23:16 < GwenNelson> i got one for Gwenmas (my birthday)
23:17 < villehardouin> a pixel 5 with graphene would cost around $100 or so on ebay or backmarket. we'll see.
23:17 < villehardouin> i hate smartphones but unfortunately need one
23:17 < GwenNelson> i'm using a pixel 5 as my "daily driver", but i want to abandon android ASAP
23:17 < GwenNelson> pinephone isn't powerful enough to run waydroid, and i need some android apps
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23:18 < hirigaray> GwenNelson: it is powerful enough to run waydroid... it's just hard to find a way to run it stably 
23:18 < GwenNelson> hirigaray: i've never had waydroid actually running on mine
23:18 < hirigaray> i managed to do it but it kept crashing
23:18 < GwenNelson> going to try waydroid on top of pmos on another device
23:19 < villehardouin> i'm using an extremely old build of graphene because my phone stopped being supported years ago. i just use the default apps that come with it. removed the browser and all that other crap via adb
23:19 < GwenNelson> heh, i need a browser of some kind on my phone
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 25 00:00:00 2023