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04:15 < hd1> where would the tarballs be in install73,img?
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05:09 < harpia> How do you specify "fdisk -l COUNT" in gigabytes? Or just bytes. It uses blocks, but what the hell is a block? I just wanna specify like 300 gigabytes.
05:09 < harpia> https://man.openbsd.org/fdisk#l
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05:13 < harpia> Got it. The interactive/command mode lets me "print g", displaying everything in gigabytes.
05:14 < harpia> The non-interactive CLI argument -l apparently only takes BLOCKS, and there's no way to change that.
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05:27 < harpia> It's very different from the fdisk on Linux, but i'm getting the hang of it.
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09:17 < Posterdati> hi
09:17 < Posterdati> please help! If --> fw_update: added none; updated intel; kept none -> reboot?
09:19 < grodzio> Posterdati: won't hurt to do
09:19 < Posterdati> ok
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09:43 < betabube> hi
09:44 < betabube> i'm bear grylls
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10:45 < nature> What is the least worst loonix distro when you love OpenBSD but are forced to use Linux for work (because of some software required for development available painfree there)?
10:46 < pardis> really depends on your exact needs and preferences
10:46 < pardis> if you're looking for personal opinions, I vote for Devuan
10:46 < pardis> long release cycle means it doesn't need much attention and care, has loads of packages, is fairly "normal" so random software is likely to work
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11:17 < nature> Yes I was looking for personal yet somewhat substanciated opinions :)
11:17 < nature> Thank you for that one
11:17 < onebitboy> void linux for me
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11:20 < sibiria> nature: debian in my opinion, or devuan if you don't want systemd
11:21 < sibiria> apline and busybox are leaner but come with a few "quirks" that can take a while to get used to
11:21 < sibiria> alpine*
11:21 < sibiria> busybox in particular is incredibly barebones for being linux
11:25 < nature> I don't want systemd but does devuan has good documentation in order to not have to look forever online to get things done?
11:29 < sibiria> it's debian, but systemd replaced with sysvinit
11:29 < sibiria> that's the only immediate difference
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11:39 < pardis> almost all Debian documentation is applicable to Devuan
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11:39 < pardis> I would avoid Void if you just want the system to get out of your way, it's a rolling release so it's relatively high-maintenance
11:40 < pardis> and if your goal is to use some random development tooling then you're relatively likely to have libc compatibility issues on Alpine
11:40 < pardis> Alpine and Void are nice where they are a good fit, but it doesn't sound like they are here
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11:45 < gzar> hey folks, what alternatives to ZFS are good to go on openbsd ?
11:47 < lts> None
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11:53 < quinq> Maybe softraid?
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11:55 < gzar> shame, any other possible choices for a filesystem?
11:56 < quinq> ffs
12:00 < sibiria> ffs, ext2 and fat32 are your options. those are the breaks
12:01 < gzar> hm alright, thanks.
12:05 < pardis> generally, "I want to use OpenBSD" and "I want to use ZFS-like features" are diametrically opposed statements
12:05 < pardis> so, why do you want to use OpenBSD?
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12:07 < gzar> security reasons mostly, just wanted to see which bsds are better for my needs. its more about me wanting to use ZFS than openbsd specifically
12:07 < pardis> you'd probably be better off with a different *BSD, then
12:08 < pardis> if you want something a bit more security-focused, perhaps try HardenedBSD
12:08 < gzar> thanks 
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12:27 < Intrepid> Hi again all. I've an encrypted USB that I wasn't able to unmount before I detached the crypto volume. Now whenever I try to access it I'm able to attach using bioctl, (albeit with a spftraid0 msg "sd2 was not shutdown properly), but when I try to mount I get a mount_ffs error msg " /dev/sd2i on /mnt/USB:Filesystemmust be mounted read-only: you may
12:27 < Intrepid> need to run fsck".
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12:33 < Intrepid> I've just tried running fsck to fix and I get "unknown special file or file system"
12:34 < Intrepid> fsck /dev/sd2a --> "unknown special file or file system"
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12:48 < lts> Why not "fsck /dev/sd2i"?
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13:46 < Intrepid> OK after running "reinit" within fdisk -e sd1 I notice didklabel sd1 now shows what appears to be the right fstype for this encrypted USB drive (RAID) instead of 4.2bsd
13:47 < Intrepid> Noe, however, when I try mount /dev/sd1a /mnt/USB I get "device is busy"
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13:48 < Intrepid> How do I stop my USB being declared "busy"?
13:48 < betabube> hi
13:51 < jmcunx> Intrepid: use fstat(1) to find out what is using it, get the inode of /mnt/USB and fstat|grep inode
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13:56 < Intrepid> jmcunx thanks for that. Being new to sftat I just ran it without any args and its just pages of irrelevant stuff like what FFox is using.. How do I get this inode of my sd1 USB?
13:59 < jmcunx> man ls(1), but don't you want the inode of /mnt/USB ?  Since that is what is in use ?
13:59 < Intrepid> FWIW I just ran fstat /dev/sd1a and it gives what looks like directory listings including USER. CMD. PID
14:00 < Intrepid> There no category for inode in any of this output..
14:02 < jmcunx> see man ls(1), switch -i
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14:05 < Intrepid> Man L's doesn't mention anything about an -I argument, but does show most other letters of the alphabet
14:05 < jmcunx> also seems if something is mounted on /mnt/USB, fstat will show that too under MOUNT Column
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14:08 < Intrepid> That DIR isn't being used by anything according to fstats unfiltered output that I've just poured over
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14:09 < Intrepid> (No /mnt/USB) showing under MOUNT column
14:10 < jmcunx> did you search for its inode, that is in column "INUM"
14:12 < Intrepid> There's no MOUNT entry for /mnt/USB so ofc there's no INUM for me to do a grep on...
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14:13 < jmcunx> the inum would be the inode of your Dir
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14:15 < Intrepid> Where's JCS !!
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14:16 < Intrepid> All this bcos I merely detached a softraid volume before unmounting it...
14:18 < jmcunx> if that is what you did, that is the issue.  OpenBSD thinks it is still mounted
14:19 < jmcunx> so maybe try and unmount it, see man mount(1) for options
14:20 < Intrepid> Unmount of sd1 or sd2 gives "not currently mounted"..
14:21 < jmcunx> /mnt/USB does have an inode, ls will show it.  see -i -d
14:22 < Intrepid> I've detached the encrypted USB as I'm just about st my wits end trying to sort this. When I then exited SU it says (1) Hangup fdisk -e sd2
14:23 < Intrepid> Followed by "disklabel:DIOCGPDINFO: inappropriate ioctl for device"
14:26 < jmcunx> not sure what the disklabel/fdisk error means
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14:37 < Intrepid> jmcunx it might be more helpful to just type what commands you suggest I apply here regarding the inode and inum thing
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14:38 < vortexx> Intrepid: you need to tell which is the usb drive and which is the softraid volume. You decrypt the softraid device and then the OS will give you a new device. We don't know if you formated the softraid device as ffs or msdos or whatever, and the answer to that would tell which to fsck.
14:40 < Intrepid> Sd1 gets decrypted to an sd2 volume
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14:46 < Intrepid> Do where to in light of my last two messages?
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14:50 < jmcunx> you really should read the man pagess, but this is what I would do, in any case I believe OpenBSD still thinks there is a mounted volume on /mnt/USB -- ls -ld /mnt/USB then us the inode : fstat | grep inode
14:50 < jmcunx> but since you unplugged the device without a umount, to me that is why the directory is still in use
14:52 < Intrepid> Right, and I'd agree with you.. That's exactly what happened to find myself in this multi day saga...
14:53 < Intrepid> So given that this is exactly what happened, is it still worth doing this -L's -LD etc command?
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14:56 < Intrepid> Is the inode listed between wheel to the left and the date to the right after doing ls -ld/mnt/USB ?
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14:59 < Intrepid> Bcoe I've used that number in a subsequent fstat | grep (number) and it shows (apart from grep and fstat) that ksh on root and my non root user, xterm and FFOX are associated
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15:01 < Intrepid> Anyways its 1am and I'm shagged from playing geek troubleshooting.. I'll probably need to just wipe this USB and start afresh.. It would be easier
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18:32 < grodzio> is there a way to set japanese locale in openbsd? i have some files named in japanese characters and i can't copy them to a different directory, that's why i'm asking.
18:36 < thrig> filenames are just bytes (minus / and NUL for various reasons)
18:37 < grodzio> i get a "no such file or directory" error when i try to copy the files
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18:37 < grodzio> the device i'm copying from is a fat32 pendrive, and i'm trying to copy it to my openbsd drive
18:37 < thrig> hard to say without seeing the filenames and commands involved
18:38 < thrig> one could try using a glob, or copying the entire directory tree, etc
18:39 < grodzio> the filenames show up as question marks in the terminal, in a graphical file manager the files don't show up at all
18:39 < grodzio> the commands are just cp -rf, i've tried rsync -ra as well
18:40 < grodzio> and i'm trying to copy a directory, in fact. not just singular files. my bad.
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19:09 < avemestr> grodzio: "export LC_ALL" and "export LANG" in your .profile or .xsession file might help.
19:11 < avemestr> Like "export LC_ALL=ja_JP.UTF-8" or similar. 
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19:12 < avemestr> https://man.openbsd.org/locale.1
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19:16 < armin> :)
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19:50 < grodzio> it doesn't seem to change anything, files still show up as question marks
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20:11 < grodzio> anyway, i found a different solution to this problem, so it's not a big deal anymroe.
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20:16 < fro> k
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20:30 < avemestr> grodzio: What was the solution?
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20:36 < grodzio> avemestr: i've found a version of the program that uses utf-8 for file names
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20:37 < grodzio> i mean, file names without japanese characters. i'm not sure if i got that right.
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21:18 < betabube> reading absolute openbsd now
21:18 < betabube> looks interesting that book 
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21:36 < betabube> hi jf and co
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21:48 < xjl> hello. I am looking for old OpenBSD install media
21:48 < martian67> images or physical copies xjl ?
21:49 < xjl> both
21:49 < betabube> why old xjl ?
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21:49 < xjl> looking to buy the old stuff, but if there are images somewhere..? including the songs
21:50 < sibiria> xjl: https://ftp.eu.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/ has 2.0 and onwards
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21:51 < xjl> Thank you! Was looking for a mirror that still had these yesterday.
21:51 < xjl> The physical discs had cool things too that I am trying to find.
21:51 < martian67> they had old physical disks for sale a while back on openbsd.org
21:51 < martian67> but i cant find it now, perhaps they ran out
21:52 < martian67> very unlikely you will find many now, perhaps ebay has some
21:52 < xjl> I have a good collection of them, but still missing a few.
21:52 < xjl> I check ebay often
21:54 < xjl> Is this a good place to ask questions about the OS?
21:54 < martian67> sure
21:55 < xjl> I noticed they took the beep out a few versions ago, which I usually just disabled because it was very loud. but I'm wondering still, is there a way to make it so that kernel messages are logged only, and not displayed on boot?
21:56 < xjl> I've read that you can make the background and text the same color.. but I'm wondering about like a switch in the bootloader? or something.
21:56 < martian67> just change the tty in boot.conf to a serial port, or whatever
21:56 < xjl> yeah, I tried that many times and it doesn't end up booting for me.
21:56 < martian67> whatever the console is set to is where boot messages are printed
21:56 < martian67> perhaps your syntax is incorrect
21:57 < xjl> well, it appears to load... but I don't have a serial port, so can't see what it's doing.. and then, I leave it for a really long time and nothing comes back.
21:58 < martian67> hard to say whats happening, with no output :)
21:58 < martian67> but even if there is no physical serial port, it should still exist in the chipset
21:58 < xjl> yeah. the option is there... or the device option is anyway
21:59 < xjl> I've tried it on a few different laptops, but the same thing happens.
21:59 < martian67> perhaps something away is happening there
21:59 < martian67> *awry
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21:59 < martian67> well if you change the tty to a serial port
22:00 < xjl> yes I try
22:00 < martian67> you wont get a glass tty unless you set it up in gettytab
22:00 < martian67> iirc
22:00 < martian67> thats probly whats happening
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22:01 < martian67> err /etc/ttys
22:01 < martian67> not gettytab
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22:02 < xjl> oh.. yeah I hadn't been in gettytab, but yes ttys
22:02 < xjl> is there something different to add in there?
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22:02 < xjl> (or turn on)
22:03 < martian67> cant test right now, but thats likely where the problem lies
22:04 < xjl> Even with defaults in ttys I think.. it isn't working. I do turn off the extra consoles
22:05 < martian67> probly easier to play with in a vm
22:05 < martian67> than real hardware with no output
22:05 < martian67> (vms can have serial ports)
22:06 < xjl> yeah.. just wondering if there was some other way. Think there was something in the boot man pages about an option that might work, but wasn't actually one that the bootloader could do..
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22:08 < xjl> another thing though.. for the /etc/X11/xenodm/Xservers  file... this may be trivial, but it stops the old X11 checkboard gradient from loading...
22:08 < xjl> adding -br after the terminal:
22:08 < xjl> Mine is :0 local /usr/X11R6/bin/X :0 vt01 -br
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22:10 < martian67> not sure about that one sorry
22:11 < xjl> just looks cleaner, trying to do something similar with the kernel messages.. just writing a log maybe, instead of to terminal.
22:12 < xjl> I've hacked up the boot loader to remove all of the text that gets displayed, lol.. I'm trying to avoid having to make any modifications to the kernel. I like the idea of keeping it how it is.
22:13 < xjl> just a suggestion maybe, if anyone using X in OpenBSD doesn't like seeing that old grey bone gradient thing... or maybe add it as the default Xservers, the -br
22:14 < xjl> Thanks for the serial suggestion.. maybe I'll keep playing around with that.
22:14 < thrig> I just put in a /usr/X11R6/bin/xsetroot -solid black or sometimes have a picture
22:15 < xjl> yes, that is a little different, but there's a split second where that original gradient shows up... the -br in Xservers was the only way I found to do that.
22:16 < xjl> so even doing the xsetroot doesn't block that first load of the X gradient background
22:16 < xjl> well. not gradient.. but the tile bone.. grey.. thing
22:17 < xjl> It took a long time to figure that one out. lol...  I think there used to be one called -retard or something
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22:20 < xjl> I try to keep the OS as close to the original as possible.. and .fvwmrc is pretty rough, but I've got a couple pretty good ones now.
22:22 < xjl> The idea behind this OS still better than the rest... if it's still being lived up to.
22:22 < xjl> Just doesn't get enough credit. and everything else has just become too bloated and sloppy..
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22:23 < thrig> the original was pretty buggy
22:24 < xjl> the original what, OS?
22:26 < thrig> fuzzing ping turned up a 24 year old bug, and you can probably find even older fixes
22:26 < thrig> (granted the ping source is something of a mess)
22:27 < xjl> how does this compare to other operating systems though..
22:28 < thrig> linux also was plenty buggy, and so was IRIX (a nmap would knock it over), etc
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22:33 < xjl> yeah.. OpenBSD gives the impression that it's actually trying to keep it secure.. it focuses on protecting itself... from worse and worse software/drivers..
22:33 < xjl> which, for an OS.. should be a focus, and is a good thing... but it seems developers may not be able to get away with as much.
22:33 < xjl> open source.. Can't really beat the license. either
22:34 < xjl> could AI accelerate the progression of OpenBSD, and auditing, while staying consistent with it's goals?
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22:35 < xjl> That's kind of what I would like to see... or taking ports and having AI scan the code of the different software under the lens of OpenBSD.
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22:37 < quinq> What AI?
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22:40 < xjl> Any that wouldn't have licensing .. issues
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22:44 < thrig> I haven't seen patches claimed to be from AI. fuzz checking has turned stuff up
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23:04 < oldfashionedcow> Not looking to start a flame war or anything, just curious on people's (or more specifically openbsd user's) opinons on wayland
23:05 < thrig> it's being worked on, on the account of x11 being shuffled off to the pasture. other options are unlikely, unless you like the console
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23:31 < seninha> Hi, does openrsync has some way to use relative paths like rsync(1)'s -R ?
23:32 < thrig> or you could pkg_add rsync?
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 28 00:00:04 2023