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03:48 < reticuli> I'm running latest patched 7.3, I want to apply a few kernel patches from the mailing list. Do I need both src + src or can I just use sys alone to build a custom kernel? 
03:50 < reticuli> I tried checking out the 7.3-stable cvs branch but I ran out of space on /usr/src so was hoping for a minimal setup. I imagine if I install a custom kernel from /usr/src that my system can get out of sync if I don't also build world as well?
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08:19 < erebion> Hi, I was wondering why nobody decided to add Buetooth support again after tedu removed it in July 2014. Any specific reason or is it just because nobody just started that endeavour?
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08:20 < erebion> I was always wondering why it wasn't simply disabled by default so that users that preferred to have the support could enable it and others that preferred to not have it leave it disabled.
08:24 < erebion> Also, if there actually is a way to use Bluetooth, I might even be able to move to OpenBSD on my laptop. So please let me kmow if I'm missing something.
08:38 < rjc> erebion: depends on what you want to use bluetooth for - if it's just for audio, then simply get one of the creative bluetooth dongles (bt-w3 or bt-w3) and bob's your uncle
08:39 < rjc> https://jcs.org/2020/11/18/openbsd_btaudio
08:40 < rjc> as to why it has been removed, the commit message which axes it, is pretty indicative
08:42 < brynet> erebion: Bluetooth support was disabled for years before it was finally removed, because it was broken.
08:44 < erebion> I know these dongles exist, but I'd certainly break them sticking out of my laptop.
08:45 < erebion> Also, do they exist as something very small with USB-C? My next laptop will not have USB A for sure.
08:45 < erebion> Ideally this would all be hidden inside the laptop's case.
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08:46 < erebion> Next laptop will probably be an X13s, how's OpenBSD support coming along? I know people use it, but cannot find up to date info on what's working.
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08:47 < rjc> as you can clearly see from the linked post, bt-w3 is usb-c, and they both stick out pretty far
08:49 < rjc> i haven't seen anything usb-c which wouldn't "stick out", it is the design of a usb-a port that allows for something as small as yubukey nano
08:50 < erebion> Well, I could have clearly seen it if I had a close look, but as I already knew such dongles exist, I did not read until the third paragraph. Will read it all later, though.
08:50 < rjc> to sum it up, you'll be breaking pretty much anything usb-c
08:51 < erebion> No, only things permanently sticking out while hectically stuffing my laptop into the bag before leaving the train.
08:52 < erebion> Which is a large part of where my laptop usage occurs 
08:53 < rjc> it might fit into a framework laptop port, though
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09:03 < erebion> Yeah, but my next laptop will be ARM, as i want to play around with ARM.
09:04 < erebion> Actually, I got an X13s here, but from work and I'm currently testing Ubuntu and Debian to see whether that'll work for the daily requirements.
09:05 < erebion> (Spoilers: With Linux the main issue so far is lack of audio support, at least last time I looked into this. And webcam support, though that's less important.)
09:07 < IcePic> erebion: about bluetooth, the stack that talks bluetooth is weird and complicated, and very few people had any decent clue on how it was meant to work, at least in the old days. Given that noone stepped up to actually maintain it, it was deemed "better" to not have a 25%-working BT stack where most devs have no clue on how its supposed to work.
09:07 < erebion> It's almost usable as a daily driver. Now how about OpenBSD? Anyone here using an X13s? I'd like to know which of these works so far: Audio, Webcam, 5G, eSIM, physical SIM, wifi.
09:08 < erebion> Anyone working on Bluetooth? I'd love to test a half working implementation and report issues and maybe help a bit by doing that. :)
09:09 < sibiria> i don't think anyone is working on it. everyone opts for ad-hoc integrated bluetooth dongle
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09:21 < norrland> erebion: a 'asus USB-BT400' perhaps? Until you're forced to use usb-c that is.
09:22 < norrland> I believe I tried it in obsd a few years ago. It's very low profile compared to the ones in the blog-post linked earlier.
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09:39 < rjc> norrland: that's a bluetooth adapter, not bluetooth uaudio - only the latter will work on openbsd
09:40 < norrland> rjc: alright gotcha
09:40 < sibiria> other than that i can vouch for bt400/bt500. they are both good compact BT plugs
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11:41 < V-T60> Hello.
11:41 < V-T60> Can i reuse one USB key for an OpenBSD installation?
11:41 < V-T60> like, spin up another computer and use existing one there too
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11:42 < V-T60> it is 64GB usb drive, isn't it better not to take another one? can i do that?
11:45 < V-T60> and another thing: should i mount /dev/sd0c or /dev/rsd0c?
11:45 < V-T60> that has installation of linux-based operating system
11:45 < sibiria> yes. if the two machines have different hardware requiring some different config you may in some cases need to swap config files out
11:46 < V-T60> the latter shows: mount_ffs: /dev/rsd0c on /mnt: Block device required
11:47 < V-T60> probably -t ext2fs should be added? no luck!
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11:47 < V-T60> mount_ext2fs: /dev/sd0c on /mnt: Input/output error
11:47 < ludovicus> Are you sure it's ext2? Nowadays ext3 or ext4 would be used on linux
11:48 < V-T60> ludovicus: oh, really
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11:48 < V-T60> i'm sure that's not
11:48 < ludovicus> Not sure of those are supported
11:49 < sibiria> ext3 is partially supported by openbsd's ext2 driver. ext4 is unsupported
11:50 < sibiria> in almost all cases it will handle ext3 fine
11:50 < oldlaptop> *some* ext4 filesystems can mount ro
11:50 < oldlaptop> linuxes don't create them by default
11:50 < schillingklaus> but ext3 and ext4 can't be mounted rw from *bsd
11:50 < sibiria> ext3 can
11:50 < oldlaptop> ext3 can (because an ext2 implementation can mount them as ext2)
11:51 < sibiria> besides ext3's journaling there are one or two features of it that openbsd's ext2 driver cannot manage
11:51 < sibiria> in most cases it will work fine
11:52 < oldlaptop> It seems unlikely you would have a filesystem on sd?c (as opposed to partition i, say)
11:55 < V-T60> it is either mount_ext2fs: /dev/sd0j on /mnt: Input/output error 
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11:56 < V-T60> or mount_ext2fs: /dev/sd0i on /mnt: specified device does not match mounted device
11:56 < V-T60> none of a-z works
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12:28 < rjc> V-T60: dmesg including sd* devices and disklable of said devices into a pastebin, please
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12:56 < pardis> and the output of 'mount', since that error sounds an awful lot like you have something already mounted on /mnt
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13:20 < leo-unglaub> hey, a quick question about the new ObscureKeystrokeTiming in ssh_config. Is it on by default or not? The man page contradicts itself as far as i understand. It states "if enabled" and then followed by "The default is to obscure keystrokes using a 20ms packet interval". is it now on by default or not?
13:24 < Bradipo> It sounds like the default is "interval:20"
13:24 < IcePic> ssh -G fake.host.name 
13:24 < byteskeptical> I understood that section to mean if you don't disable it
13:24 < IcePic> prints out the configs
13:24 < IcePic> $ ssh -G www.google.com|grep obs 
13:24 < IcePic> obscurekeystroketiming yes
13:24 < byteskeptical> Bradipo: it is
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13:25 < Bradipo> Options are: yes, no, interval:ms with the default option being interval:20.
13:25 < Bradipo> Seems like "yes" may be a redundant option though.
13:27 < IcePic> isn't yes the default "good" setting?
13:27 < byteskeptical> right ^
13:28 < renaud>  
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13:33 < leo-unglaub> thank you all, much apriciated!
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14:25 < GnarledHorn> that's wonderful
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14:25 < GnarledHorn> I remember reading a paper about inferring content of passwords using timing information back in... 2007? 2008 maybe? great to see it's proactively handled here
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18:45 < vortexx> erebion: https://dmesgd.nycbug.org/index.cgi?do=view&id=7141
18:47 < MonsoonSecrecy> when on -current do I use 'pkg_add -u' or 'pkg_add -uDsnap'?
18:49 < vortexx> MonsoonSecrecy: -u till the next version of -release goes into beta, then -uDsnap (uname -a will be incremented in beta)
18:49 < vortexx> once -release has happened (more or less) you can go back to -u
18:50 < MonsoonSecrecy> vortexx: thank you very much. I was wondering why I don't see a difference but it makes sense now.
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19:16 < cartals> hello, has anyone installed obsidian on openbsd? I want to learn OpenBSD so I'm thinking to install it on my computer but obsidian is important for me, I have freebsd port but I'm not sure if I can use it on openbsd
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19:17 < avemestr> I think all things Electron is still a no-go.
19:18 < cartals> I see thank you
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19:34 < thrig> electrons are swell and help let me type this
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19:45 < erebion> vortexx: Thanks, but was talking about ARM X13s, not Intel X13.
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21:16 < vortexx> erebion: probably no support at all then
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23:42 < se1> exit
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--- Log closed Thu Aug 31 00:00:08 2023