--- Log opened Fri Sep 08 00:00:20 2023
00:00 < dlg> tcp should die though
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00:03 < obcecado> i've lowered udp.first, udp.multiple and udp.single on that rule to 20 secs
00:04 < emmanuelux> dlg, for my ssh pb, it is not after a loss of internet but I lost the right to use a port forwarding from time to time (else to restart ssh), the port is busy , i have even a error message from ssh
00:04 < thrig> one coffeeshop injected RST packets so I instructed both ends to ignore those
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01:15 < vortexx> I worked out what was slowing down pf... too many banned IPs from ssh violations being tracked
01:15 < vortexx> 123649 addresses deleted.
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01:18 < thrig> might be easier to whitelist where ssh can happen from
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01:24 < dlg> did you know that pf doesnt automatically expire address in overload tables?
01:25 < dlg> i think you're supposed to have `pfctl -t table -T expire SECONDS` run from cron periodically
01:25 < thrig> easier to let the system crash and then turn it off and back on again
01:27 < dlg> this is the way
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01:41 < vortexx> I was just trying to see how many I could collect :P
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01:41 < vortexx> been doing this with three routers for the past 2-3 years
01:42 < thrig> in unrelated news, most of the internet is hacked
01:43 < vortexx> dlg: I did know they don't expire automatically
01:43 < dlg> i had to read the code to discover that
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02:16 < tommyrot> why would it automatically expire addresses if you don't tell it to do so
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03:03 < reticuli> is there anything to help analyze pf rules to detect attacks or strange traffic even if originating internally?
03:03 < reticuli> or pf logs I should say
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03:13 < thrig> usually that's the realm of netflow and intrusion detection systems
03:14 < vortexx> reticuli: you might want an intrusion detection system for that, something like snort if it's for the internal network
03:17 < reticuli> vortexx: are there any other solutions that might be good to check out too?
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03:19 < vortexx> there might be something more modern now
03:19 < vortexx> I'm not super up to speed with current practices
03:19 < thrig> or to consider who would be attacking and what they would do, and then...
03:21 < reticuli> I'm seeing some rst packets originating from an android phone to google's servers
03:22 < dlg> i hacked https://github.com/eait-itig/flow-collector up to run at home and store stuff in a pg database
03:22 < dlg> and tend to use grafana to poke at it
03:23 < dlg> logging dns is pretty interesting too
03:23 < reticuli> and stuff like this: Sep 07 23:19:50.700595 rule 18/(match) block in on em0: 162.216.149.227.56965 > xx.xx.xx.xx.43080: S 2592959055:2592959055(0) win 65535 <mss 1460> [tos 0x60]
03:24 < reticuli> there's also a windows laptop on my network that I'm a bit weary of, it's on a separate vlan without access to the rest of my network but would be curious what in tarnation it's doing
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03:25 < dlg> collect flows then
03:25 < thrig> windows systems are hella noisy, generally
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03:29 < reticuli> my openbsd router hw is coming in the next few days. I'm curious if there's any good reason I might consider for building kernel/world from source instead of binaries?
03:30 < dlg> fun
03:30 < dlg> other than that, no
03:30 < reticuli> I already had to do it to try some kernel patches but then I think my system is more or less a hybrid now
03:30 < reticuli> maybe cutting out unneeded stuff from the kernel? Any optimization flags to try?
03:31 < reticuli> although looking at some of the errata notes, it looks like sysupgrade, syspatch does make things a bit easier
03:32 < reticuli> dlg: I missed your logging dns comment, indeed it could be interesting but it's also something I don't think I'd want to snoop on (other family members, etc..)
03:32 < ox1eef_> cdn.openbsd.org is suddenly a 404 ?
03:34 < mischief> reticuli: it was theo who once said 'knobs are for knobs'
03:34 < mischief> if you want to play handy man with your kernel config, you know where to find linux.. :)
03:34 < reticuli> lastly, I'd like to be able to ssh in from outside but I'm paranoid of opening up any ports whatsoever incase they become targets and get hacked
03:34 < reticuli> mischief: gentoo specifically even =)
03:35 < ox1eef_> Or FreeBSD. It is encouraged.
03:35 < mischief> i'm on gentoo right now
03:35 < mischief> works great
03:35 < reticuli> gentoo is great =)
03:35 < thrig> I got as far as 'now compile your ethernet driver' in gentoo
03:36 < reticuli> easy, just boot a kernel with all drivers as modules, lsmod, then pretty much use only those drivers
03:36 < ox1eef_> Is cdn.openbsd.org a 404 for anyone else ? Every path is like that for me, including packages.
03:37 < fro> yes
03:37 < fro> it's 404 here
03:37 < reticuli> 404 here as well
03:37 < ox1eef_> Alright thanks.
03:37 < fro> use another mirror or wait
03:37 < mischief> he's dead, jim
03:39 < reticuli> maybe I should consider setting up wireguard on my router and then allowing ssh via that
03:39 < ox1eef_> reticuli: You can use pf to restrict who can access what ports.
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03:39 < reticuli> mischief: I could be connecting from anywhere though
03:39 < fro> no one is going to hack your router bud
03:40 < thrig> gibson, maybe, if it's got bluetooth
03:40 < reticuli> fro: seems I get a lot of portscans at least; I'm not seasoned enough reading pf logs to know precisely what's actually going on though
03:40 < fro> scanning happens everywhere
03:41 < reticuli> I'm not even sure my pf.conf is setup as securely as it can be either
03:41 < fro> it's not targeting at you
03:41 < fro> -at
03:41 < mischief> i got my router hacked once about 10 years ago
03:41 < fro> sure you did
03:42 < mischief> i had my edgerouter lite with the stock os and accidentally opened ssh to wan with the stock creds :)
03:42 < ox1eef_> Targeting everyone on the internet, looking for common patterns that could be exploited. No harm in being concerned about it.
03:42 < reticuli> there was also some thread in openbsd-misc about some guy saying he got hacked while being in an extremely hostile environment, I'm not sure if they found the cause of that, I think it was 1-2 years ago
03:42 < reticuli> mischief: ha
03:42 < fro> really missing the point here
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03:43 < fro> also if there's a legit post to misc about being hacked and not some paranoid moron i'd love to see it
03:43 < mischief> right
03:44 < mischief> use your ed25519 keys and maybe a nonstandard port and forget about it :)
03:44 < fro> you can take some pretty common steps to give you some peace of mind but if you're concerned with random scanning of ports across the internet that's just
03:44 < fro> well
03:44 < fro> that's stupid
03:44 < reticuli> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=166212940801173&w=2 this thread
03:46 < fro> yeah this person wasn't "hacked" through their router
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03:49 < fro> i don't know who reads this and says "yeah this makes sense to me"
03:50 < vortexx> reticuli: for ssh from the outside, just enforce prohibit-password and you should be fine. Some people like to run ssh on a different port but that's a more bother than it's worth, ssh scanners try every damn port out there
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03:54 < reticuli> interesting, I always prohibit root login and passwords but never thought to just open it up
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03:55 < reticuli> I also don't know openssh history enough to know if/how many remote exploits there have been historically
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03:56 < fro> well
03:56 < fro> you're on the internet
03:56 < fro> it's not like you don't have access to that information
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04:02 < reticuli> seems to be pretty clean actually
04:03 < vortexx> it does help that OpenSSH is native to OpenBSD, and developed with the OpenBSD philosophy
04:04 < oldlaptop> vortexx: I can report that it reduces log volumes... sometimes, to run ssh on some high port
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04:04 < oldlaptop> every now and then a botnet still figures it out and it takes a while before they forget
04:04 < vortexx> the main risk with ssh is to not have up to date binaries, but exploits on OpenSSH... there hasn't been one in a very long time that went public
04:04 < vortexx> like decades
04:04 < thrig> took them a while to find it when I had it on tcp/2
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04:05 < vortexx> oldlaptop: I'm sure it does reduce log volume but that's not as much of a concern as it use to be
04:05 < oldlaptop> the most recent one to guess my IRC VPS' port was unusual too, an actual high-intensity (!!!!!) bruteforcer
04:05 < oldlaptop> like, multiple attempts per second
04:05 < oldlaptop> bizzare
04:05 -!- nonlinear is now known as zero-xray
04:05 < oldlaptop> And they weren't even kex negotiation failures
04:06 < oldlaptop> (don't see as much of that bot anymore)
04:06 < vortexx> when you're on a PC Engines WRAP with 4G of CF Card storage, yes you want logs at a minimum and on a tiny ramdisk (256M ram lol)
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04:06 < thrig> you can exclude libssh by using fancy key types
04:06 < vortexx> there's a lot of attempts on my turnserver port too
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04:10 < reticuli> is port knocking still a thing these days?
04:11 < oldlaptop> I'm not sure it ever was a "thing". It was never a good "thing".
04:11 < reticuli> vortexx: yes, I'm on apu2d with only 4G here...
04:11 < oldlaptop> The most you'll get out of port knocking is, what, a few characters worth of password?
04:12 < oldlaptop> and you should be using pubkeys for ssh anyway
04:12 < oldlaptop> (and it's worse than that, the port knocking nonsense presumably has *attack surface*)
04:12 < reticuli> how is port knocking related to passwords? I thought it was merely only accepting connections to sshd if that same source IP hits other ports first?
04:13 < oldlaptop> The sequence of "other ports" is basically equivalent to a password.
04:13 < myappie> https://imgur.com/a/tsAT2ei <-- Puffy
04:13 < oldlaptop> Only it's more complicated to set up, more complicated to use, and not as secure.
04:13 < reticuli> agreed, I never in fact used it myself
04:14 < reticuli> found this guy in my pf log, still unsure what it means: rule 18/(match) block in on em1: 192.168.1.135.46268 > 142.250.81.238.443: FP 0:31(31) ack 1 win 463 <nop,nop,timestamp 2435115035 1894562870> (DF)
04:14 < reticuli> coming from an android phone and the remote is some google IP
04:14 < oldlaptop> If that's on some cloud provider, *they* may run scans on you as a service, more or less
04:15 < oldlaptop> "It looks like you're running 10 year old wordpress! Would you like help?"
04:15 < thrig> install all the plugins, thanks, bob!
04:15 < reticuli> ha
04:15 < oldlaptop> I know offhand AWS does that
04:16 < myappie> like installing pf-badhost and noticing it's blocking all your servers
04:16 < oldlaptop> (Oh, you mean 192.168.1.135 is your android phone, don't you?)
04:16  * oldlaptop is sleepy
04:16 < reticuli> yeah
04:16 < myappie> trying to uninstall it but it always manages to show back up
04:17 < reticuli> I suppose it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to just stick my phone on a separate vlan without access to my internal machines, maybe put it on my IOT vlan which I created for a similar purpose
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04:18 < vortexx> reticuli: 4G storage or ram? 4G ram is plenty I find on my APU2
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04:18 < reticuli> 4GB storage + 4GB RAM
04:19 < reticuli> new box will have 16GB RAM and 500GB storage thankfully
04:19 < reticuli> still worried about drops on this i225 rev03 though... will need to test it out before swapping out the apu2d
04:19 < oldlaptop> One other silly thing: try running ssh over stunnel on port 443 sometime, for a good laugh at all the "Bad protocol version GET /admin.php"
04:19 < reticuli> oldlaptop: =)
04:20 < thrig> or route ssh through the webserver
04:20 < oldlaptop> (I actually did this because of some kind of firewall killing ssh handshakes. I must not have been the only one to have that idea, nmap actually knows what it is)
04:20 < vortexx> yeah 4G of disk is too small for doing much logging. Have you thought of using a central logserver on your lan to receive the logs and do the analysis there instead of on the firewall?
04:20 < vortexx> OpenBSD's syslog is nice enough to send logs over ssl once you've set it up right
04:21 < oldlaptop> not *that* hard to just plunk more storage in an apu2
04:21 < reticuli> vortexx: I have but I'll need to setup another low power box somewhere; I wonder if I can actually send it over to AWS or rsync.net.... 
04:21 < oldlaptop> (not that a log server isn't a good idea, for reasons entirely separate from storage capacity also)
04:21 < reticuli> oldlaptop: good idea, I could repurpose that apu2 for that if this new protectli is stable
04:21 < oldlaptop> Fun With Wireguard: syslog in the cloud?
04:22 < vortexx> I got nginx to reverse proxy matrix stuff on the firewall to the VM btw, for those who might be following my witterings
04:22 < vortexx> I will learn enough relayd to achieve that too but not just now
04:22 < vortexx> (do it with relayd instead of nginx)
04:24 < vortexx> btw I discovered exoscale.ch (clouds based in Switzerland, Austria and Germany for those not wanting a server in the EU) still do OpenBSD VMs
04:24 < reticuli> do I need apmd running on this apu2d?
04:24 < vortexx> not really
04:24 < vortexx> depends how hot your location gets
04:24 < reticuli> does it help with cpu throttle or is that all in hw these days?
04:25 < vortexx> but when it gets to 30°C in here it stays at around 62°C on the APU2
04:25 < vortexx> it helps with throttle yes
04:27 < reticuli> yeah looks like it's idling at 61C now
04:30 < vortexx> reticuli: if you want to limit http access of devices on your lan you could use either squid with authentication or a SOCKS5 proxy like dante
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04:30 < vortexx> well, access from the lan to the rest of the world
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05:26 < z3bra> hey, hi everyone! It lookls like cdn.openbsd.org is down ?
05:26 < z3bra> does anyone has info on that ?
05:26 < z3bra> I'm using this one: cache-fra-etou8220107-FRA
05:29 < thrig> it's pining for the fjords
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06:21 < nwe> hello if I want to add --enable-pf-transparent whats the right way to go ? use modify the Makefile or ?
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06:39 < CosmicDJ> nwe: I guess you're talking about squid? Did you read https://github.com/openbsd/ports/blob/master/www/squid/Makefile#L98 ?
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06:41 < nwe> CosmicDJ: yes :) sorry forgot to say which application .
06:45 < nwe> CosmicDJ: and thanks!
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07:59 < moviuro> Hi all, how can I start a pkg daemon (dhcpcd) before a base daemon (dhcpd)?
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08:39 < babouille> I bet the official answer is "You don't"
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08:39 < babouille> for base services, the start order is hard-coded in /etc/rc
08:43 < renaud> moviuro: if you are running a dhcp server, consider using a static IP address for that machine on the dhcpd interface. If you have other interfaces that uyse dhcpc, then, just odn't start dhcpd on those.
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08:44 < moviuro> yes, I actually meant rad(8) instead of dhcpd(8). My ISP does not garantee IPv6 (or IPv4 for that matter) stability
08:45 < moviuro> dhcpcd(8) does DHCPv4&6 to the uplink and sets the IPv6 subnet on my internal addresses
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09:19 < quinq> moviuro, here dhcpcd gets DHCPv6, and rad distributes it, no need to reorder daemons
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12:09 < croket> [1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;1;2;3;4;7;8;9;1;2v
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12:29 < il> hm
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12:33 < CosmicDJ> looks like my old sceenrc ;)
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12:43 < leo-unglaub> hey, this might be a dumb question, but in your experience, how long does an fsck take on an M2.SSD that contains around 4 million small files (around 500gb). i asume that is going to take a couple of hours
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12:50 < sibiria> i don't think it'll take a few hours
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12:59 < avemestr> It's also a matter of RAM, I think? The more the better/faster fsck.
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13:10 < jcs> i'd wager 20 minutes
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13:12 < leo-unglaub> oh okay, thats much better than i tought :) thanks :)
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13:33 < anddam> howdy, can relayd filter out headers while acting as reverse proxy?
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18:23 < concrete_houses> I put icewm in .xsession but forgot to install icewm
18:23 < concrete_houses> reboot now takes me to console
18:24 < concrete_houses> and login fails after I login since it cant find icewm
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18:24 < concrete_houses> how do I get to regular login promt?
18:24 < concrete_houses> new 7.3 install
18:24 < concrete_houses> or do I have to redo the install
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18:24 < betabug> login as root?
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18:25 < concrete_houses> i think i chose to disable
18:26 < concrete_houses> i have the gui login thing
18:26 < betabug> switch to one of the other consoles (ctrl-alt-fn2 etc) and log in to a shell there?
18:26 < concrete_houses> xenodm
18:26 < concrete_houses> ah
18:26 < sibiria> why not just log in outside X and change the file...
18:28 < concrete_houses> ok in
18:28 < concrete_houses> now my mit mirror is empty lol
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18:30 < concrete_houses> what file has the PKG_PATH I need to change and export it
18:30 < concrete_houses> apparently
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18:47 < concrete_houses> ah 
18:47 < concrete_houses> icewm running on new 7.3 install
18:47 < concrete_houses> life is good
18:47 < concrete_houses> now
18:47 < concrete_houses> I have a wireless nic to setup
18:48 < concrete_houses> I created hostname.if
18:48 < concrete_houses> iwn0 is my device
18:48 < concrete_houses> I still have status no network
18:49 < concrete_houses> I am using an ethnet cable to the cat6 port on this laptop x230 lenovo
18:49 < concrete_houses> but I would rather be using wireless
18:49 < concrete_houses> so I can goto maine vaction house
18:50 < concrete_houses> and use local library nework etc
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18:50 < concrete_houses> is there a nice gui tool for adding wireless networks?
18:50 < concrete_houses> or how do I activate my wirless?
18:51 < concrete_houses> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#Wireless I am reading here
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19:14 < concrete_houses> can't seem to get my wireless nic to work on this iwn0 nic on lenovo laptop x230
19:15 < signalblue> don't spam the channel
19:16 < avemestr> concrete_houses: Did you name the file hostname.iwn0 ?
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19:21 < concrete_houses> yes
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19:26 < avemestr> And you created it with the two lines show in the "Configuring a Wireless Adapter" section? Of course with your own SSID and password and quotation marks if necessary?
19:28 < concrete_houses> yes
19:30 < concrete_houses>  status: no network
19:30 < concrete_houses> ifconfig iwn0 down ifconfig iwn0 up
19:31 < concrete_houses> Is there some other command to cycle the network? Does the em0 ethnet cable conncetion interfere?
19:32 < eea> sh /etc/netstart
19:32 < eea> two different interfaces
19:33 < eea> wired vs wireless
19:33 < concrete_houses> ran netstart
19:34 < concrete_houses> still no network..
19:34 < concrete_houses> for iwn0
19:38 < concrete_houses> https://privatebin.net/?13e9854e64d39b42#55Dbvn8fraVcJNfp2zYM75RghYkdhcCbq5JPnGCS6W1M
19:39 < concrete_houses> If there a way to scan for wireless networks? I wonder if the capitalization is wrong
19:39 < eea> ifconfig iwn0 scan
19:41 < concrete_houses> I can see network
19:42 < eea> and your hostname.iwn0 file looks wrongly
19:42 < concrete_houses> oh?
19:42 < eea> yea
19:42 < eea> that "nwid" line is incorrect
19:43 < eea> that would be if using ifconfig manually
19:43 < eea> https://www.c0ffee.net/blog/openbsd-on-a-laptop#networking
19:43 < eea> that's an accurate read
19:50 < uwharrie> a bit outdated
19:51 < eea> a bit, but still valid for explaining hostname.iwn0
19:51 < eea> unless... something has greatly changed
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20:07 < concrete_houses> note the hostname.iwn0 as per the FAQ works https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq6.html#Wireless   
20:08 < eea> the faq is always current and accurate
20:08 < eea> in openbsd land
20:11 < concrete_houses> lesson: the tested os and the howto are right I or hardware am wrong lol
20:13 < concrete_houses> this thinkpad x230 lenovo also has a switch to turn off the wirless very small on left side   that was first hurdel a few hour ago when i decided to get wireless going and not freebsd didnt not have aline saying device hardware switch is off as openbsd did
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20:21 < concrete_houses> mixerctl permission denied?
20:21 -!- absc [absc@2a04:ee41:8:6055::4] has joined #openbsd
20:21 < concrete_houses> does my user have to be in an audio group or something?
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20:22 < jcs> use sndioctl for most things
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20:23 < concrete_houses>  sndioctl output.level=1 ah ha!!
20:23 < uwharrie> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq13.html#audiolevel
20:23 < concrete_houses> much better!!
20:23 < concrete_houses> youtube now workin yay
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20:23 < concrete_houses> plenty volume
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21:14 < armin> i just had exactly that problem when trying to watch a video on my laptop, but then again, the built-in speaker on the x230 is literally so damn bad that it kinda justifies software developers designing volume faders that go above 100%...
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21:14 < armin> the audio engineer wants to stab someone with something rusty when i see things like that. 
21:15 < armin> vlc also has a volume faders that goes above 100% by default.
21:15 < armin> pavucontrol and i believe other pulseaudio mixer things, too.
21:15 < armin> that's just SO wrong to begin with. make this an additional checkbox one explicitly has to mark with a huge warning or something, but a default that goes beyond 100% is just wrong.
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21:19 < armin> there's also "cmixer" which works quite well, and xfce4-mixer which is usable (of course) from other desktops, too.
21:20 < sibiria> hrm: https://www.enricobassetti.it/2023/09/cve-2023-4809-freebsd-pf-bypass-when-using-ipv6/
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21:22 < armin> sibiria: ah yea read that 2 hours ago.
21:22 < Bradipo> Good thing I don't use IPv6. :-)
21:22 < armin> Bradipo: well you should.
21:22 < Bradipo> Why?
21:23 < armin> Bradipo: it's simply the current version of the internet protocol.
21:23 < armin> Bradipo: of course you can live in a legacy-ip only world, but there's absolutely no reason to do so.
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21:24 < armin> Bradipo: it's like earth is full of humans and we decide to move to earth2 instead which just happens to be exponentially bigger while you insist that THIS is the correct planet to live on and refuse to talk to us.
21:24 < armin> Bradipo: no point doing that.
21:25 < fro> ipv6 is trash
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21:26 < armin> Bradipo: sure if you already pay rent for some home and you want to keep its address, sure, continue, but you should still be able to afford one of these tiny awesome modern luxury homes on earth2 as well.
21:26 < armin> fro: so is ipv4
21:26 < Bradipo> http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/ipv6mess.html
21:26 < fro> i didn't mention ipv4
21:26 < armin> but i did
21:27 < fro> yes to make no point at all
21:27 < armin> kekw
21:27 < fro> good job buddy
21:27 < armin> fro: here, your shirt.
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21:29 < Bradipo> So is this problem with pf on FreeBSD also present in pf on OpenBSD?
21:29 < armin> Bradipo: no.
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21:32 < panne> Bradipo: you know that article is just 20 years old? (plus 1 month and 1 week just tomorrow, but who counts... ;)
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21:34 < Bradipo> panne: Yes, it is.  Amazing how much of it is still relevant, I'd say. :-)
21:34 < fro> but earth2 blah blah blah
21:37 < sibiria> armin: the western world isn't ready for ipv6, is the problem
21:37 < sibiria> few ISPs offer ipv6 connectivity
21:37 < armin> sibiria: hm, i run quite a bit of ipv6 only infrastructure, though, even on openbsd.
21:38 < armin> sibiria: but ok, if you say so. :)
21:38 < panne> Bradipo: well, i won't. The main problem then was, there were no servers with ipv6, so clients could not use it; and the other way around, there were no clients using ipv6, so no servers... That *has* changed, hasn't it?
21:38 < sibiria> yeah i do. it's a fact
21:38 < sibiria> ipv6 adoption across europe, and the americas, is tiny
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21:39 < Bradipo> Yes, *some* of it has changed.  But we still haven't arrived at _that moment_.
21:39 < armin> sibiria: meanwhile over 50% of google requests is ipv6, but ok
21:39 < sibiria> only india and china are going nuts with it so far
21:39 < panne> Bradipo: (the remainer of the article is about the compatibility mess, not that ipv6 is bad or the like .)
21:39 < Bradipo> Right.
21:40 < armin> you're getting NATted ipv4 only with most ISPs these days (at least here in DE) even
21:40 < sibiria> when you separate statistics into residential requests, and hosting provider requests, the picture is very different
21:40 -!- cjones [~cjones@45.76.242.14] has quit [Server closed connection]
21:40 < sibiria> lots of products online sling ipv6 requests, having the benefit of their hosting providers' modern networks
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21:41 < armin> yup, like github for example
21:41 < armin> they don't even have an AAAA entry
21:41 < armin> in 2023...
21:41 < sibiria> residential ipv6 is making very little noise so far
21:41 < Bradipo> My websites don't have AAAA records either.  In fact, none of my DNS has AAAA.
21:41 < armin> Bradipo: well i feel bad for you, that's all i can say here.
21:42 < thrig> comcast don't like spending money on fancy routers, and maybe not the customers either
21:42 < panne> *remainder ...
21:42 < avemestr> !RemindMe In 10 Years "Has IPv6 become a thing?"
21:43 < Bradipo> armin: Am I missing out on something?  Not sure why you should feel bad for me.
21:43 < signalblue> why do we NEED IPv6 beyond v4 address space exhaustion?
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21:43 < armin> signalblue: "beyond"... :)
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21:43 < armin> maybe just because of that.
21:43 < Bradipo> Well, IPv6 really only solves the "public IPv4" space problem.
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21:44 < sibiria> we only *need* it because of that. but it also has a few nice bits
21:44 < armin> and openbsd does ipv6 just fine, there's not much of an excuse to ignore it these days anymore.
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21:44 < signalblue> armin: most OSes worth using from the past 20 years do a great job with IPv6 :)
21:44 < armin> we could play some bingo instead: https://ipv6bingo.com/
21:45 < Bradipo> Well, I see that ipv6bingo.com has an A record...
21:45 < Bradipo> If they really wanted to lure me in, they wouldn't offer it as IPv4.
21:45 < signalblue> I don't want to lose the security provided by NAT
21:45 < dqk> take an easy example, how much a second ipv4 will cost you if there's a need to have two boxen exposing the same port?
21:45 < Bradipo> Then I would ask my ISP, "Hey, there's this really cool website that I want to use and I need IPv6 to get to it."
21:45 < Bradipo> signalblue: NAT doesn't really provide security.
21:46 < signalblue> Bradipo: that's the joke
21:46 < obcecado> well, there's always an exclusive dancing turtle you can watch over ipv6 on www . kame . net
21:46 < obcecado> /s
21:46 < signalblue> because it only takes a compromised router to bypass NAT "security" Bradipo
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21:49 < armin> what i really love is just HOW much more reliable my *bsd (that's openbsd and freebsd) systems run, in comparison to their linux counterparts, and those linux things have automatic restart of failing daemons and whatnot.
21:50 < armin> those bsd hosts are just entirely over the place in terms of uptime and reliability in the stats.
21:50 < fro> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=169420758223431&w=2
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21:51 < armin> fro: well the correct behaviour would be to drop that packet, even with pf disabled, or am i missing something?
21:51 < fro> don't ask me
21:52 < avemestr> armin: Why?
21:52 < armin> avemestr: alex mentioned it, because those packages are illegal.
21:53 < signalblue> armin: I just love how NetBSD can run on an really old machine with 128 MB's of RAM :)
21:53 < armin> signalblue: i used a netbsd laptop with 1gb of ram for years. 
21:54 < armin> signalblue: currently my laptop runs openbsd on some x230 with 4gb, that's luxury.
21:54 < signalblue> which laptop and how was the experience?
21:54 < armin> signalblue: i can't remember for the life of me i'm afraid, 32bit only, single core, some thinkpad. i remember sitting at the river with it and coding.
21:54 < signalblue> ah gotcha :)
21:54 < signalblue> how was the experience though
21:54 < armin> excellent!?
21:55 < signalblue> as in did you enjoy netbsd?
21:55 < armin> it was VERY slow but my god did it run reliably, whatever worked made 100% sense.
21:55 < armin> yes.
21:55 < signalblue> to me, it's probably the cleanest code-wise out of all three
21:55 < armin> it was like my god everything!? i see makes sense!?
21:55 < signalblue> :)
21:55 < fro> netbsd having the cleanest code
21:55 < armin> crazy experience.
21:55 < fro> that's rich
21:55 < signalblue> slow because old/failing hardware
21:56 < signalblue> not old just probably failing
21:56 < armin> openbsd is really close here. everything i install and investigate makes sense in some way, no surprises here, no weird indirection my mind can't follow, nothing.
21:56 < signalblue> that's the one thing Linux can't do
21:56 < armin> it's like you just apply thinking and you feel at home!?
21:57 < armin> i don't get what that is, honestly.
21:57 < signalblue> yep I run a lot of servers on Free/OpenBSD
21:57 < armin> same.
21:57 < armin> more because i really have to, i need some things to stay alive, but it's not like it's much pain or something?
21:57 < mischief> my first use of openbsd was on a compaq deskpro with a p3 and 128m ram and a 6gb ide disk
21:57 < armin> like it just works?
21:57 < signalblue> email, web, dns, vpn, storage, ssh, etc
21:58 < mischief> with a pci nic in the isa riser it was a great first firewall :)
21:58 < armin> my first use of bsd was freebsd at version 4.4, that was my first desktop where i was like "wait, computers can actually JUST WORK!?"
21:58 < signalblue> oh with pf.conf?
21:58 < armin> it just worked, there was NOTHING i didn't understand.
21:59 < armin> i was able to fully use that computer, everything what i wanted worked.
21:59 < armin> incredible.
21:59 < signalblue> it's a nice feeling
21:59 < armin> i've never had that feeling before.
21:59 < armin> and i'm disabled since birth, hard at hearing, everything. it was like a logical enhancement of my body.
22:00 < armin> crazy stuff.
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22:00 < armin> that's where i fell in love with bsd, yes.
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22:02 < signalblue> armin: I assume you don't use Windows, then.
22:03 < armin> signalblue: i don't, i got an MCSE certification and i refuse to touch that with a stick.
22:03 < thrig> Minesweeper Certified, eh
22:03 < armin> signalblue: i just want unix/linux systems these days, macOS is the worst i go.
22:04 < sibiria> but macOS is a unix. a real certified one. embrace it
22:04 < armin> signalblue: making music on macOS is really really nice, i love to do that, even though renoise works under linux, too.
22:05 < armin> signalblue: but sometimes, you know, you just gotta juggle around some beats, re-arrange them, re-structure beat patterns, these things.
22:06 < armin> signalblue: that being said, linux as an audio DAW works perfectly fine these days. i use renoise 99% of the time and it just happens to do everything i need.
22:07 < thrig> lmms does segfault a lot on openbsd
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22:07 < armin> lmms is not even remotely where renoise is.
22:08 < armin> i would love to be able to make music on openbsd, but i believe that will never happen.
22:08 < armin> but i will very likely find something that i can use asynchronously, to record some nice samples or something
22:09 < armin> what i really realized over the last 5 years of using computers: less is more, we should continue to use trivial things like IRC in favor of more complex things.
22:10 < thrig> renoise looked a bit complicated and requires firing up a clunker dell laptop
22:11 < signalblue> IRC > Discord :)
22:11 < armin> thrig: hmm, if you need any help in renoise, /query me any time, i'm happy to assist. 
22:11 < thrig> I'm fine in lmms at the moment, and I can run it on the main openbsd system
22:12 < armin> i just get back to very slow computers, and computing that doesn't require much computing power, in general.
22:12 < armin> this whole stuff that works just inside a web browser is just not for me i realized.
22:13 < armin> i also feel like the modern IT world is simply seriously broken.
22:14 < armin> openbsd is a really refreshing thing to install here in contrast, you see that something's still alive in the IT world that's a part of you.
22:14 < eea> openbsd is sanity in a world of chaos
22:14 < armin> yup.
22:14 < eea> how many servers rely on opensshd?
22:15 < armin> oof.
22:15 < eea> yep
22:15 < armin> literally every single one?
22:15 < eea> and thanks to openbsd, we have it
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22:15 < armin> correct.
22:15 < armin> i couldn't live without openssh.
22:15 < eea> even windows does opensshd these days
22:15 < armin> my life literally depends on it.
22:15 < eea> that one blew my brain up, ssh into a windows server and do bash stuff
22:16 < armin> like, in ways of personal security and whatnot, without ssh i'd probably be dead.
22:16 < armin> <3 ssh.
22:16 < armin> i can safely say it saved my life, yes.
22:17 < fro> how did it save your life?
22:17 < armin> emergency situations. bloat messengers didn't even load, at all. ssh to my openbsd server still worked, even with VERY slow update of the screen.
22:17 < armin> was able to call help.
22:18 < armin> someone got to me within 20min or so.
22:18 < armin> thx to ssh.
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22:20 < fro> do they have those life alert things there?
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22:21 < armin> hmm, sometimes i end up in "situations". i can't explain this, really.
22:21 < fro> https://www.lifealert.com/
22:21 < armin> i'm also a somnambulist.
22:22 < armin> fro: yea the thing is you need to know that you could fall before getting one. :)
22:23 < fro> i mean you can just press it
22:23 < fro> you don't have to actually fall
22:23 < fro> my grandma had one
22:23 < armin> i can just take my phone and ssh home. it will very likely just work.
22:23 < armin> and honestly it has saved my ass, yes.
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22:23 < fro> seems convoluted
22:24 < armin> :)
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22:25 < signalblue> why not just dial 911
22:26 < armin> signalblue: hm, well, because sometimes you're just in situations where that could be bad. 
22:26 < fro> like what?
22:26 < armin> fro: like being actually super wasted, or on various colourful substances, or whatever, people do things.
22:27 < armin> fro: that's just something humans do.
22:27 < fro> yeah it's not really
22:27  * eea points at #openbsd-social
22:27 < armin> eea: oh thank you.
22:27 < fro> to rather than calling someone on a telephone
22:27 < fro> you ssh into a server
22:27 < fro> and then do what?
22:27 < fro> who are you contacting?
22:28 < signalblue> and how are you contacting
22:28 < armin> eea: also my apologies for spamming this, i got mentally lost, will continue over there in -social, my apologies. thanks for your understanding.
22:28 < fro> yeah i'm not joining that channel
22:28 < signalblue> why not?
22:29 < fro> because it's dumb
22:29 < signalblue> ok then
22:29 < fro> this chanenl is dead 95% of the time
22:29 < fro> and this only gets pointed out when someone starts having an actual conversation
22:29 < fro> which i find annoying
22:30 < fro> also since this person is saying they're sshing into an openbsd server
22:30 < fro> it's _technically_ about openbsd
22:30 < fro> so no
22:30 < signalblue> i ssh into openbsd servers all the time
22:30 < fro> yes and we're talking about it now
22:30 < fro> so it's on topic
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22:57 < ryan> at one point i remember a preliminary port of ardour was in openbsd-wip
22:57 < ryan> it built and ran, i might have even recorded a bit of noise, long time ago now
22:57 < ryan> TLDR; never say never ;)
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23:00 < avemestr> A port of ardour would be... making waves.
23:00 < fro> there was a port already
23:00 < fro> looks like it was removed in 2017
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23:48 < adig> pulseview keeps freezing with "sr: fx2lafw: Failed to submit transfer: LIBUSB_ERROR_TIMEOUT.", any ideas?
23:58 < aaronm04> adig: can you rule out hardware promlems?
23:58 < aaronm04> problems*
23:59 < adig> Have no idea what sort of hardware problems? I'm considering the cable, but have no spare one.
23:59 < adig> Or the analyzer itself?
23:59 < aaronm04> Any, really
23:59 < adig> I kinda remember happening with a different model of analyzer also.
--- Log closed Sat Sep 09 00:00:21 2023