--- Log opened Tue Sep 12 00:00:16 2023
--- Day changed Tue Sep 12 2023
00:00 < pardis> there are at least two kernels that have been ported to run as userspace applications on another kernel
00:00 < pardis> but it's not very common and requires a lot of work
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00:35 < topcat001> ssm_: I use old hand-me-down machines from work. When I was a student I used old machines from uni :)
00:36 < topcat001> once you are not running windows the options really open up for old hardware
00:37 < topcat001> e.g. OpenBSD runs happily on an old Core 2 quad Optiplex 740 with 8 GB RAM. I got several from work when they dumped them.
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00:52 < vortexx> could someone please tell me why this syntax is wrong? pass in on $int_if from $lan_net to any route-to { ( $ext1_if, $ext1_gw), ( $ext2_if, $ext2_gw)}
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00:56 < al1r4d> sorry, i dont understand =) hope someone can do it, vortexx
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01:01 < thrig> I don't see where in the grammer ( interface-list ) would be allowed
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01:03 < vortexx> thrig: you mean the { ( $ext1_if, $ext1_gw), ( $ext2_if, $ext2_gw)} bit?
01:04 < vortexx> I'm trying to setup multipath
01:04 < vortexx> and there's no example in pf.conf manpage for using route-to
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01:05 < thrig> all the examples have ($interface) not a list within
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01:11 < vortexx> misc@openbsd has multiple examples of route-to with multiple interfaces
01:11 < vortexx> (which I'm having trouble using of course)
01:13 < vortexx> could it be syntax has changed in recent releases? I'm looking at stuff that's 3-4 years old
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15:56 < e54> Hello good people. My yubi key not working with chromium? Works with ff. It was working before with chromium.
15:58 < e54> Was there a change? Do i need to do something? I did google and found no help
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16:06 < jmcunx> I do not have a yubi key nor do I use chromium.  But guessing you should examine files in /etc/chromium/ and see if a unveil/pledge rule is needed.  Maybe compare to /etc/firefox???/
16:08 < vortexx> hopefully there's more people who might be able to answer this question at this hour
16:08 < vortexx> could someone please tell me why this syntax is wrong? pass in on $int_if from $lan_net to any route-to { ( $ext1_if, $ext1_gw), ( $ext2_if, $ext2_gw)}
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16:10 < phy1729> Why do you have two things in the parens?
16:10 < vortexx> apparently that's the syntax for multipath
16:10 < phy1729> Is that in man pf.conf  it doesn't match the grammar at least
16:11 < thrig> this was pointed out yesterday...
16:12 < vortexx> I can't find any grammar examples in pf.conf manpage for route-to
16:13 < phy1729> The grammar is at the bottom of the man page
16:13 < vortexx> I've had to use examples found on misc@openbsd and blog posts, which hasn't served me well (as usual with blogposts)
16:14 < e54> jmcunx: I was thinking that. I will investigate. 
16:16 < IcePic> the syntax is very poorly specified in https://man.openbsd.org/pf.conf
16:17 < IcePic> basically "route-to" .. { redirhost-list }
16:17 < vortexx> ok looking at the manpage again I get it now, yes it's a tad unclear
16:18 < vortexx> thanks a lot
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16:23 < phy1729> Clearly the grammar section needs a quick BNF primer with a line to not despair /s
16:24 < vortexx> a multipath example for pf.conf would be welcome too
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16:30 < jsolano> Hi, I just installed OpenBDS 7.3, after many years away from the BSDs. Most things are working, but I need to use accented letters (dead keys) with my us keyboard, working on the console. I know how to do this in an X environment, but is it possible to do it in the console? I need to type edit text with vim in German and Spanish and I cannot get it to work.
16:31 -!- grodzio [~grodzio@83.31.196.151] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
16:31 < thrig> time to start source code patching the console, probably
16:31 < thrig> or you could use X
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16:36 < avemestr> jsolano: Dunno if "man kbd" is any help.
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16:38 < inz> Does anyone know of a way to install openbsd on a VPS where I don't have any kind of console access; like is there an installer that could dhcp an ip and start sshd?
16:38 < thrig> autoinstall(8)
16:40 < phy1729> Can you provide your own image?
16:42 < inz> phy1729, no (at least not easily)
16:43 < inz> thrig, ah, I thought it only works if one has access to the DHCP server, but there seems to be a local override
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16:44 < inz> thrig, thanks; will give it a go. Fortunately recovery is easy :)
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16:47 < quinq> Sooo
16:48 < quinq> I manually added a static (permanent, public) arp entry to my machine, corresponding a public IP address to my external interface MAC address
16:48 < quinq> This automatically creates a route that I don't want to use (route through that interface)
16:49 < quinq> So I was able to actually create a route to my internal client to whom that IP is dedicated, with a higher prio (lower number) route
16:49 < quinq> It works fine
16:49 < quinq> Until a few moments, then the machine stops answering to ARP requests for that IP
16:49 < quinq> Any idea why that is actually happening and how I could solve that?
16:50 < quinq> (note that the arp entry, and the routes are still present when that happens)
16:51 < quinq> s/public/published/
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17:14 < e54> Is this the most popular openbsd irc channel? 
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17:15 < quinq> Yes e54, it's got a 27% satisfaction rate!
17:15 < thrig> lies, damned lies, and statistics
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17:15 < quinq> Lies can do good in some situations
17:15 < betabug> cosmopolitan had a feature article about this channel
17:16 < quinq> What journal is that, cosmopolitan?
17:16 < e54> quinq: lol. Thanks. Didn't know if there were others on OFTC maybe
17:16 < betabug> quinq: dunno, probably something about geography
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17:17 < e54> I'm 100% satisfied ;)
17:17 < quinq> ^^
17:18 < quinq> To be fair, I think there are still people on ex-freenode who didn't get the memo that this network wasn't free anymore
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17:20 < thrig> freenode didn't rename itself to x, though
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17:22 < e54> Elon is going to buy freenode. It could happen.
17:22 < quinq> thrig, maybe that move is actually a tad more honest
17:22 < quinq> e54, wouldn't matter anymore, a somebody like him already did
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17:25 < quinq> So, any idea about my problem?
17:25 < quinq> I wouldn't want to have the satisfaction rate going down
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17:31 < armin> 19:18 [ quinq] To be fair, I think there are still people on ex-freenode who didn't get the memo that this network wasn't free anymore
17:32 < armin> quinq: well if they STILL didn't get that at this point, then i have no clue why that is so.
17:32 < jsolano> thrig: avemestr: thanks, I guess it is time to set up X
17:33 < quinq> Yeah armin :)
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17:44 < vortexx> pass in log on vport0 inet all flags S/SA route-to <__automatic_b81e4310_0> round-robin
17:45 < vortexx> this doesn't look very normal does it?
17:45 < vortexx> (it's meant to be two IPs where <__automatic_b81e4310_0> is )
17:45 < quinq> What's the source rule?
17:45 < quinq> I use ($if)
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17:46 < vortexx> quinq: pass in log on $int_if route-to { $ext1_gw, $ext2_gw } round-robin
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17:47 < vortexx> (IPv4 traffic isn't working btw)
17:48 < quinq> Hummm, and what's $ext1_gw?
17:48 < quinq> An IP?
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17:49 < vortexx> an IP
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17:50 < vortexx> both $ext1_gw and $ext2_gw are the default route IPs
17:50 < armin> ok so my focusrite scarlett (6i6 2nd gen) works just fine with openbsd, however, the first 3sec when playing audio i get silence and THEN the audio arrives. tried different samplerate/bitrate/buffersize with sndiod but no dice. :-/
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17:53 < quinq> Yeah, not sure then, sorry vortexx 
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17:54 < vortexx> I'm going to mail misc@ to see if anyone else has an idea, thanks anyway quinq 
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17:54 < topcat001> armin: sounds like power saving?
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17:57 < armin> topcat001: i already tried to use "-a on" to always keep the device open, but that also had no effect.
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17:59 < topcat001> It may not be enough to prevent either the device or the usb port to enable power save.
18:00 < armin> topcat001: well it works without problems on my linux installation though.
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18:01 < armin> topcat001: so i kinda doubt it's something related to power saving.
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18:04 < topcat001> and you're sure power saving is enabled on Linux? (cat /sys/module/snd_hda_intel/parameters/power_save)
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18:05 < topcat001> it could be something else of course. Can you try a USB headset which is also usb-audio, if possible?
18:06 < armin> it's snd_usb_audio in that case, not snd_hda_intel (i think?), i'll see if i can find some other usb audio interface to test with. :)
18:06 < armin> topcat001: thank you for the pointers!
18:11 < topcat001> right I forgot it's usb :) In that case usb pm/autosuspend is probably on: (cat /sys/module/usbcore/parameters/autosuspend). In that case it's something OpenBSD specific probably.
18:12 < topcat001> snd_usb_audio won't pm by iself unlike the internal driver
18:12 < armin> ah, yup on my linux installation /sys/module/usbcore/parameters/autosuspend is "2".
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20:42 < yjya> !ducktme
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20:42 < yjya> !ducktime
20:43 < yjya> !lastduck
20:43  * yjya implodes
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20:59 < nature> armin: does it work well for you? I was considering getting myself a focusrite scarlett too, but I was a bit scared of the openbsd compatibility
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21:12 < vortexx> yay FAQ to the rescue (how did I miss this https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/pools.html ? answer: too late at night)
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21:22 < visl> I'd emojis to work in Emacs (...i use it for email, and people at the dayjob use a lot of emojis ...) but all i see is a square. they work in firefox fine. searching the mailing lists however, i get the impression that they more or less don't work (seems with regard to gtk specifically).   is this the correct impression or is there something i can do to get emojis to work? 
21:22 < armin> nature: well it takes 2-3 seconds until i hear something when i start playing audio. when i hit pause, it immediately stops then, and when i hit pause again it again takes 2-3 seconds until i hear something. i've played with various sndiod parameters, sample rates, bitrates, and so on.
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21:23 < armin> nature: i believe that's just a small bug, the device itself is supported and it plays sound in general, but there's these tiny issues that i was not able to solve, yet.
21:24 < visl> derp.  "I'd like emojis to work..."  missed a word.
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21:26 < nature> armin: got it, I'd be glad if you kept me posted if you figured those things out.
21:27 < zyxer> armin: Isn't that just loading cache in the software that plays the audio?
21:28 < zyxer> nature?
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21:32 < nature> not sure, I am just considering buying the hardware
21:33 < armin> zyxer: good question, i think not, because when i increase/decrease the buffer size, the bitrate, the sample rate, or whatever, the time until the sound hits in remains very precisely the same, about 3 seconds.
21:34 < armin> so the playtime in the song where i start to hear sound is always exactly the same position in the intro of the song, regardless of what settings i start sndiod with really.
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21:41 < topcat001> You can try shutting down the sound server and open the sound device directly. This was we can see if sndiod is indeed the problem.
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22:04 < zyxer> Ok so, I am aware OpenBSD devs consider bad or lack of documentation a bug. I am not sure if I use man properly, however, this is the first time I have had an issue with the man pages (except when it was a me problem due to tired or lazy reading). Nsd, I couldn't find any info on zone config file
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22:05 < sibiria> nsd.conf?
22:05 < zyxer> And sadly almost all guides I found online on setting up unbound and nsd are either outdated or assume only LAN DNS 
22:05 < zyxer> I think I checked nsd.conf, let me double check
22:07 < zyxer> No nsd.conf has no info on zone file
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22:07 < zyxer> Not even a "See also" that refers to zone file
22:08 < zyxer> in my case the file would be /var/nsd/zones/ns1.freesoftware.se.zone
22:08 < sibiria> maybe nlnetlabs document it on their website
22:08 < sibiria> https://nsd.docs.nlnetlabs.nl/en/latest/zonefile.html
22:09 < zyxer> Yes I found yes
22:09 < zyxer> I was mostly surprised that that info is either not available in man pages or hard to find/not properly referenced in "See also"
22:09 < sibiria> there's less activity when it comes to third-party software
22:10 < sibiria> it might be that nsd doesn't actually provide a man page specifically for the zone files
22:11 < zyxer> oh, I see. I thought it was OpenBSD thing. Probably because I am so used to most of my used software that come in base install are OpenBSD projects 
22:12 < sibiria> a chance to contribute by taking their docs/wiki on the zone format and writing a man page up yourself :)
22:12 < zyxer> Also, I have a question: Is it safe for me to pkg_delete httpd and relayd? I need some functions nginx have and want to keep my server minimal. 
22:13 < zyxer> Yes, I am gonna look into how to make a man page. 
22:13 < sibiria> those are not packages, can't delete them
22:13 < zyxer> To me this is very important, since nsd helps ppl not rely on third party for stuff, and for my domain I would have to pay even more for DNS 
22:13 < zyxer> Oh, I see
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22:15 < sibiria> just disable them and no worries. they won't interfer
22:15 < zyxer> So, before I get nginx, I want to double check here since the internet results where a bit.. dubious. Can I use httpd and relayd as reverse proxy with ssl? 
22:17 < zyxer> I have 2 domains on same server. However, the second entry in httpd just serves the first entry
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22:18 < zyxer> My httpd.conf https://clbin.com/8471k
22:19 < sibiria> relayd can do *some* transparent proxying
22:19 < sibiria> i'm not the right person to ask about your case specifically, since i don't use relayd
22:20 < zyxer> ok, well. Not too big of a deal, I'll just go get my old friend nginx. Thanks for your time :)
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22:37 < rjc> zyxer: not sure why you need relayd - httpd supports sni just fine
22:37 < thrig> stop saying that!
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22:39 < rjc> zyxer: as to your config, this doesn't make sense:
22:39 < rjc> listen on * tls port 80
22:39 < Bradipo> Why not?
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22:40 < Bradipo> Though, it's possible that browsers may not be smart enough to handle https://domain.dom:80/
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22:41 < rjc> just keep it simple, either:
22:41 < rjc> listen on * port 80
22:41 < rjc> or:
22:41 < rjc> listen on * tls port 443
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22:45 < mystic> hello guys, is there any way to detect unveil violation ?
22:48 < mystic> I mean if a process like a browser try to access to an area of filesystem that should not access
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22:52 < uwharrie> mystic: see unveil(2) and lastcomm(1)
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23:08 < mystic> uwharrie: thanks!
23:09 < mystic> reboot
23:09 < mystic> ops
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23:09 < quinq> Hummm
23:09 < quinq> [[ ! -f /var/account/acct ]] && touch /var/account/acct
23:10 < quinq> Ah, well, nevermind
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23:14 < zyxer> rjc: That tls port 80 was a mistake, good catch 
23:15 < rjc> zyxer: np
23:16 < zyxer> What do you mean with sni? 
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23:17 < thrig> Knights Who Say Ni
23:20 < Bradipo> Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni, Ni.
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23:23 < zyxer> rjc: No wait you're incorrect
23:23 < zyxer> the tls is needed because it forces redirect from port 80 to 443 
23:24 < zyxer> and if no tls specified it tries to do port 443 without tls 
23:24 < zyxer> But that isn't allowed by httpd since I specify in the 443 that it uses tls
23:24 < zyxer> Webpage broke when I changed it to no tls on port 80
23:24 < sibiria> it's better to redirect with 3xx for that
23:25 < zyxer> ??????
23:25 < sibiria> if you don't want to allow traffic over unecrypted http on port 80, respond with a redirect to the correct url (https://...)
23:25 < sibiria> don't forward/proxy the traffic
23:26 < zyxer> Yes I do that
23:26 < zyxer> It broke when I removed tls 
23:26 < pardis> then you are using a browser with extremely non-standard behaviour
23:26 < pardis> (or, more likely, not telling us what you did completely)
23:26 < zyxer> No itgave me 403 forbidden
23:27 < zyxer> I sent the config earlier
23:27 < zyxer> I can resend
23:27 < pardis> 403 forbidden has absolutely nothing to do with tls
23:27 < pardis> if having tls or lacking tls breaks something, you will not get far enough to get an HTTP error code
23:27 < zyxer> No it wasn't that your right, other issue. I got... Some other error
23:28 < zyxer> https://clbin.com/8471k
23:28 < zyxer> There
23:28 < zyxer> Httpd.conf
23:28 < zyxer> It should be fine except the 80% comments
23:28 < thrig> a browser might memorize https://...:80 and get mad if you try to change that to HTTP
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23:30 < zyxer> pardis: httpd refused to start after I removed tls from that
23:30 < pardis> you are still being very vague
23:30 < pardis> tls appears 4 times in non-comment lines in that file
23:30 < pardis> "removed tls" could mean 2^4-1 possible changes
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23:32 < sibiria> zyxer: no i mean that you should be using a "block return 30x" for that
23:32 < sibiria> with a separate server stanza just to pick up the http requests on port 80
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23:33 < zyxer> I meant the zyxer.se on port 80
23:33 < zyxer> I removed tls specifically from that line only
23:33 < pardis> so now you have it configured to listen on port 80 both with and without tls
23:33 < pardis> were you expecting that to work? if so, why?
23:33 < zyxer> No?
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23:34 < zyxer> sibiria: I do have a block return 301
23:35 -!- jacobk [~quassel@utdpat241106.utdallas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
23:36 < sibiria> then what isn't working?
23:37 < pardis> probably the thing I just pointed out
23:37 < sibiria> one stanza with a listen on port 80, no tls, that issues a block return to https://. another stanza with listen on port 443 *with* tls
23:37 < sibiria> that's how to do it correctly
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23:38 < sibiria> https://dpaste.org/8HWEO/raw
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23:45 < kzootech> Hello, world! I'm looking at the instructions for encrypting external disks and notice it suggests creating an "i" partition with disklabel, i know i could make one with a or b or even d, but why i? is that typical for external drives?
23:47 < Bradipo> i is typically used for msdos partitions.
23:47 < Bradipo> What document are you reading?
23:47 < kzootech> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#softraidCrypto
23:48 < kzootech> which doesnt look like its making an msdos partition
23:48 < Bradipo> Right, I have no idea why it would recommend using "i" as the partition, I always just use "a".
23:49 < pardis> you can use any letter you like other than c, that's probably just the preference of whoever wrote this
23:49 < pardis> although it seems to me like an odd preference
23:50 < ssm_> when you use fdisk to create a fat32 partition, it creates a partition at i, probably what it's referencing
23:50 < ssm_> I don't know why it does that
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23:52 < kzootech> i guess im just curious about how the parition naming conventions came to be in general 
23:52 < Bradipo> fdisk -iy creates an "i" partition automatically?
23:52 < ssm_> additionally on efi installs, the efi system partition is also at i
23:52 < kzootech> like why is c the whole disk?
23:52 < ssm_> historical reasons
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23:54 < Bradipo> I just tried "fdisk -iy vnd0" and I did not get an "i" partition on the image.
23:55 < pardis> you won't get one, no
23:55 < pardis> the EFI system partition is not necessarily i, just usually
23:55 < Bradipo> Well, right.
23:55 < ssm_> the installer puts it at i
23:55 < Bradipo> I guess I'm still confused why the FAQ recommends "i".
23:55 < Bradipo> # disklabel -E sd4 # make an "i" partition
23:56 < Bradipo> Clearly if I have to "make" it, then it doesn't already exist, so I might as well make it "a". :-)
23:56 < pardis> ssm_: if you do a whole disk install, yes; if you install to an existing disk, it may or may not end up like that
23:56 < kzootech> well a is usually a boot parition so i can see why a isnt chosen 
23:56 < kzootech> and b is typically swap
23:56 < kzootech> and c is c
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23:57 < pardis> kzootech: the original reasons why c is the full disk go back to AT&T Unix, when disks were small enough that disk drivers could have one-size-fits-all partition layouts hard coded
23:57 < pardis> the hard-coded layout had the first partition as root, second as swap, third as full disk, then some other usefully-sized partitions
23:57 < pardis> disks didn't get big enough for the overhead of partition metadata to be worthwhile for another 10 years or so
23:57 < pardis> but the convention stuck
23:58 < ssm_> but more importantly, the convention suck
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--- Log closed Wed Sep 13 00:00:49 2023