--- Log opened Fri Sep 15 00:00:12 2023
--- Day changed Fri Sep 15 2023
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00:00 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: metavoid, antranigv, agentcasey, spiraliz, anshupati, eriol, cns, gid, drustan_, XFXF-100,  (+39 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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05:46 -!- beastie is now known as thebeastie
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07:46 < vortexx> aaronm04: dmesg | grep UEFI will tell you if you booted uefi
07:47 < vortexx> # dmesg | grep UEFI  
07:47 < vortexx> efi0 at bios0: UEFI 2.7
07:49 < aaronm04> Thank you, but I've moved on and am now messing with ~/.Xresources :)
07:50 < vortexx> that's fine :)
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13:02 < padam> Hello, does someone on aarch64 tried arm-none-eabi-gcc-linaro ?
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13:02 < padam> seems that it produce wrong binaries
13:02 < padam> they can't be run
13:08 < IcePic> what does the arm7 machine say about them?
13:09 < padam> https://pastebin.com/VhJFGzK2
13:09 < padam> I planned to run it on a aarch64vm
13:09 < padam> I should have a armv7 libc
13:11 < renaud>  padam: I have tried that only on linux. They work well for linux, but I would be surprised if they were as good on OpenBSD.
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13:13 < padam> right ok
13:13 < padam> do you know how I could get a armv7 vm running?
13:14 < padam> It doesn't work easily as with aarch64
13:14 < renaud> oracle cloud seems to work with -current now
13:15 < padam> nice, but I thought in local like wih qemu or so
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13:20 < renaud> padam: let's be honest, you can get some free arm VMs on oracle cloud
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13:20 < renaud> if you want to test, that's nice enough
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13:26 < renaud> qemu is really slow
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14:24 < GnarledHorn> special thanks to the person that recommended I use "moc" as a music player. It's my new favorite 
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14:31 < bountyht> THe moc music player ROCKS
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14:58 < il> i'm just looking at music players, mpd is a bit hard to setup for me lol
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15:41 < skraito-0day> hi all
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17:08 < dayid> So wanted to rebind CapsLock to Escape for console. wsconsctl even has example in manpage of `wsconsctl keyboard.map+="keysym Caps_Lock = Control_L"`; presumed I could just swap "Control_L" with "Escape" and be done with it.
17:09 < thrig> grep -i escape /usr/include/dev/wscons/wsksymdef.h
17:10 < dayid> but I get "wsconsctl: keysym Caps_Lock not found". Did `grep -i "caps_lock" $( locate wsksymdef.h ) and see #define KS_Caps_Lock 0xf105
17:10 < dayid> So I tried with KS_Caps_Lock instead, right? but that just changes to: `wsconsctl: KS_Caps_Lock: not a keysym` and I'm not sure I follow.
17:11 < dayid> search engines don't make me think anyone else has flubbed up the same thing as I am doing now :)
17:12 < dayid> `wsconsctl keyboard.map` indeed has no match for "Caps" anywhere - though I expected it to.
17:13 < dayid> ah, perhaps this is my flaw.... keyboard1.map does have "keycode 57 = Caps_Lock" so I wonder if it's just some wrong keyboard usage on my end
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17:14 < dayid> doas wsconsctl keyboard1.map+="keysym Caps_Lock = Escape"
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17:15 < dayid> Guess that's on me somewhere --- only ever had 1 keybord with this machine and AFAIK have never setup other profiles - only even stumbled upon it because of trying to do wsconsctl -a where it said to use explicit arg to view keyboard.map/keyboard1.map etc.
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17:16 < dayid> Sure enough keyboard1.map was the fix. Now I guess time to learn more about why the system has different keyboard maps configured somewhere. Perhaps default console vs ps2 vs usb or something?
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17:22 < dayid> ah, indeed: wsconsctl -a | grep type -> keyboard.type=pc-xt; keyboard1.type=usb; keyboard2.type=usb
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17:26 < padam> renaud I'm not sure how I should install openbsd on Oracle Cloud, I can setup an armvm but there is no openbsd image.
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18:35 < GnarledHorn> dayid: I'm also a capslock -> escape person. I add `setxkbmap -option caps:escape` to my ~/.xsession
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18:42 < thrig> I have capslock on esc but I never use it
18:43 < quinq> And where is esc?
18:43 < thrig> oh, I mean that caplocl has been mapped to generate an escape
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18:43 < quinq> ah ok :)
18:44 < quinq> Here shift's on capslock and ctrl's on shift
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18:51 < dayid> GnarledHorn: Yeah, but I was doing this for Console --- non-X ;)
18:51 < GnarledHorn> interesting
18:52 < dayid> Yeah, never really bothered with it in a console before as the few times I'm using a console I generally don't care and notice that CapsLock isn't "escape" when I see the keyboard light up - but figured it was finally worth fixing.
18:53 < dayid> I have a (good, IMHO) habit of using ctrl with the pinky-palm/knuckle of my hand rather than stretching for it, so never needed to move the ctrl key --- even Escape doesn't really bother me but having Caps do Esc also is useful occasionally
18:54 < GnarledHorn> caps is premium keyboard realestate for a function I never use
18:54 < dayid> when switching irssi channels by # I still use the upper-right escape with number (e.g., esc+5); but then when doing a shortcut like "hop to recent activity" in irssi with esc+a I instead use the Caps-Escape+a since the combination feels more natural.
18:55 < dayid> I'd be interested to see/use a keylogger to see what of my keyboard I actually use --- similar to what you could do with "swiftkey" on phones where it would watch your "swipe" progress and redesign your keyboard based on your own style/imperfections
18:56 < dayid> I could probably integrate it with something like sudoreplay or typescript to catch which chars I type continuously and analyze it --- most of the alphabet are shoe-ins but then there's all the "home/end/pgup/pgdn" keys which feel useless when there's already other strokes for them (same with F-keys which I don't truly have w/o using an Fn+# key)
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19:44 < grodzio> is the intel(4) broken or unsupported on ivy bridge? i get a "no screens found" error upon starting xorg, modesetting works fine.
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20:12 < grodzio> nevermind, i think it was because i was using startx. it works if xorg is launched with xenodm.
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22:06 < chumphries> hello all - no question just greeting
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22:44 < a1fa> how do you tell what cua did the usb modem bound to?
22:46 < a1fa> ucom1 at umodem0
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22:47 < chumphries> is it in dmesg? 
22:47 < a1fa> ucom1 at umodem0
22:47 < omtht> shell question: if I run   echo "hello" | { cat - & echo "world" ; }   it only prints "world". If I change the & to ; it prints "hello" and then "world"
22:48 < omtht> it seems running a command in a group asynchronously means it loses access to the group input
22:49 < a1fa> chumphries: i guessed is as cuaU1
22:49 < a1fa> but where do you "tell"
22:49 < chumphries> good question, uncertain. it should be in dmesg if anywhere, oddity to be sure
22:51 < chumphries> omtht: interesting but yeah, & to && would also make it work, so you're not forking a process off with dead text after it
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22:53 < omtht> chumphries: yeah, I can't figure it out. Under bash it works as I expected by not in ksh so I am try to figure out if it is a bashism or not.
22:54 < chumphries> either way it is bad shell code
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22:55 < chumphries> I'd guess the text after the lone & is regarded as undefined behavior
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22:58 < chumphries> (because it doesn't make sense)
22:58 < omtht> maybe, but it is strange that it works fine in bash
22:58 < omtht> why does it not make sense?
22:58 < chumphries> because you're telling the cat command to fork and then there's just floating text there. & is not a command delimiter
22:59 < chumphries> it's why ; or && make it "work" because then you're writing code that makes sense, either two commands run one after another or two commands where the second is only ran if the first is EXIT_SUCCESS (0) 
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22:59 < omtht> suely it is, I can do it on the command line fine
23:00 < chumphries> the fact that bash does it is odd
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23:00 < omtht> e.g.    $ echo "foo" & echo "bar" &
23:00 < chumphries> that's forking two commands one after another, do you know what the lone & is doing? 
23:01 < uwharrie> sh -x -c 'echo hello | { cat - & echo world ; }'
23:01 < omtht> yeah, starting the process in the backgroup to by run asynchonously
23:02 < chumphries> this is a silly exercise and code that shouldn't exist in any real application, imo 
23:03 < omtht> you might be right, but if it is wrong I want to understand why. At the moment I don't see when it in theory could not work
23:04 < omtht> I took this from this link: https://catern.com/posts/pipes.html
23:05 < uwharrie> "each byte of output becomes input to exactly one worker" I'm not sure that's a defined behavior
23:07 < uwharrie> see also the comment about <0&
23:07 < omtht> posix says that reading and write less than pipe buf is atomic, so it shoudl be okay
23:07 < omtht> i tried add the <&0, still nothing :(
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23:09 < omtht> this is only just for fun and learning so its not important, just wanted to understand
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23:11 < uwharrie> Posix requires this behavior: "The standard input for an asynchronous list, before any explicit redirections are performed, shall be considered to be assigned to a file that has the same properties as /dev/null."
23:11 < chumphries> ahh, I see with using uwharrie's -x you can see that cat - happens after echo world
23:13 < chumphries> with zsh it prints world an then hello
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23:14 < uwharrie> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/7908799/xcu/chap2.html#tag_001_009_003_001
23:14 < omtht> uwharrie: I saw that somewhere in my searching, but it was only relating to if job control was disabled.
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23:16 < omtht> yeah, here it has the same wording, but prefaced with job control 
23:16 < omtht> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3_chap02.html#tag_18_10
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23:19 < omtht> chumphries: I think either order would make sense to me as you have no way on knowing when the cat process will be run, but as there is nothng else reading the pipline input, the cat should always have access to it. Or so I thought
23:21 < chumphries> it is curious as it is not intuitive to me, so I suspect, like you, it is frustrating because it is unclear why the behavior is so
23:22 < chumphries> at the same time, there are real problems I have that I can figure out, hah
23:23 < dfdx> < omtht> shell question: if I run   echo "hello" | { cat - & echo "world" ; }   it only prints "world". If I change the & to ; it prints "hello" and then "world"
23:23 < omtht> yeah :) as I said, it is not important, just a bit of fun. Thanks guys
23:23 < dfdx> I believe this is because the { ... } creates a subshell.
23:23 < dfdx> it's not like a function that you can pass the variable or string "hello" to.
23:23 < dfdx> so cat - accepts nothing.
23:25 < omtht> dfdx: ( ) creates a subshell whereas { } runs the command list in the current shell. 
23:26 < omtht> cat - should read from stdin, and I thought that even within the { } group, the commands stdin would be mapped to the pipeline. But maybe not when started async
23:26 < topcat001> not if {} is after a pipe; then it is a subshell
23:27 < omtht> topcat001: oh, I have not seen that mentioned before. Interesting, thanks
23:27 < topcat001> however the stdin should be inherited all the way down the process tree, and only cat is reading from it
23:28 < topcat001> although I am far from being an expert in ksh. Have used bash for too long.
23:28 < dfdx> omtht: are you in ksh or bash?
23:29 < omtht> dfdx: the default ksh for OpenBSD
23:29 < topcat001> omtht: what if you run: echo "hello" | { cat - & sleep 2; echo "world" ; }
23:29 < topcat001> just testing a hunch
23:30 < omtht> seems to be the same, only "world" is output
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23:31 < dfdx> actually this is wird. I don't get ksh's behavior here, either.
23:31 < dfdx> for example, this works as you, omtht, would probably expect: echo "hello" | { cat - >file ; }
23:31 < dfdx> then cat file and see what's in there.
23:32 < topcat001> ok so ksh is handling the forking and inheriting in a particular way. I need to check the man.
23:32 < topcat001> I'm unfortunately away from my OpenBSD machine rn :|
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23:32 < dfdx> however, this prints "hello\nworld" in bash, but not in ksh: $  echo "hello" | { cat - & sleep 1 && echo "world" ; }
23:33 < dfdx> i'm not the best person to ask about ksh. i unashamedly used bash on OpenBSD (when not root). 
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23:34 < chumphries> I use zsh for my user shells (it's just better in every way) - no shame
23:34 < omtht> dfdx: yeah, when the command list in the group is synchronous split by simple ; everything works as I expect. Its only when adding a & into the mix that weird behaviour occurs
23:34 < omtht> well, weird for me at least :)
23:35 < topcat001> I only use bash because I have a whole lot of unixy systems and it is a common denominator. On some of them I don't have the option to install anything else.
23:36 < topcat001> I'm actually a big fan of (t)csh lol
23:36 < dfdx> i love bash.
23:36 < omtht> I tend to use defaults on any system and keep my scripts to sh compatible if possible
23:37 < omtht> but I am not an admin, its only personal systems I am talking about
23:38 < il> does bash ship with any non-linux system?
23:38 < topcat001> also I feel (this is not meant as a jab to the knowledgeable users) that many zsh users have not fully explored bash, because they keep showing me things I already have had for years
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23:39 < topcat001> It is the one consistent shell which either ships or is readily available, even on obscure (but I have a couple) systems as AIX
23:40 < topcat001> I would however never change a unix system's root shell from its default.
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23:41 < omtht> il: I think Apple used to ship bash, but now zsh I think
23:41 < chumphries> yeah, zsh has been default for macOS for a while
23:41 < il> I don't use bash much. I write bash scripts, but I mostly use fish shell
23:42 < topcat001> y because of licencing
23:42 < il> I installed fish shell on my WSL installation the other day, lol
23:42 < il> windows is so much more usable with wsl, one of their best ideas is to give users an alternative to using their operating system lol
23:43 < chumphries> indeed, changing root shell is never a good idea (especially if something goes bad and you can't just rebuild instantly)
23:43 < chumphries> wsl2 is a nice thing they did, though it has a lot of problems, but perhaps off-topic
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23:43 < il> true
23:44 < omtht> il: agree completely. Though cygwin was pretty good too
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--- Log closed Sat Sep 16 00:00:54 2023