--- Log opened Wed Sep 20 00:00:00 2023
00:03 < zyxer> Hi. So, I really want an encrypted drive that can be read by both Mr. Penguin and Puffy. The reason is that I have LVM on LUKS which has important data I would like to be able to access from OpenBSD. But I need it to be encrypted because, well, I encrypt all my data by default.  
00:05 < zyxer> At the moment from what I know, I can either copy all data to unencrypted drive, delete encrypted drive and reformat and encrypt for OpenBSD, then copy all the data again to the encrypted drive, destroy the other drive, encrypt and copy the data top it (I want to use one drive as backup)
00:05 < zyxer> s/either //
00:06 < zyxer> But that is copying... I think over 1.5 terrabytes on an HDD to SSD, and then back to HDD... Takes long time
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00:06 < zyxer> I have linux USB to read all the data on the LUKS LVM disk and that
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01:15 < vortexx> zyxer: at current time not a single OS using encrypted drives allows for copying to another OS
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01:16 < vortexx> you have to copy the data to unencrypted storage and back again
01:16 < vortexx> this is not an OpenBSD issue, it is a *BSD Linux Windows MacOS and others issue
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01:22 < zyxer> So even a soft raid AES encryption cannot be read by linux as well? 
01:22 < zyxer> ok. Guess I will have to endure the HDD speeds
01:23 < zyxer> ☠
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01:36 < mischief> there's encfs, a fuse filesystem, though i've never used it.
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03:07 < nature> sibiria: Thank you, yeah I was listening on the interface on the server, so the "edge" of the vpn, and the icmp6 request was going out, but no response ever came back
03:08 < nature> I wonder if it's possible that the icmp6 packet is malformed...
03:08 < nature> I'll go to sleep now, but will have a look again tomorrow
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07:52 < tercaL> Hello, good morning everyone. I got a question regarding PF; In my FreeBSD server, I have one external interface with public Internet IP address, and a "lo1" virtual interface I created in rc.conf, for my Jails to have virtual IPs through that interface, and NAT for them so that they could be online through my external interface with public IP address.
07:52 < tercaL> I'm trying to understand and configure PF for such my setup, so in my case, should I have "set state-policy if-bound"?
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08:17 < serxoz> ??/close
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08:17 < pardis> FreeBSD pf is not the same as OpenBSD pf, so this is not the right place to ask
08:17 < IcePic> tercaL: have you tried without and found it to not work?
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08:18 < IcePic> and as pardis said, fbsd copied pf from obsd some 25+ releases ago so its kind of hard to know what you could do with pf at the time, and what fbsd requires of you when jailing and internally redirecting packets.
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09:56 < ox1eef_> I use pf on both FreeBSD and OpenBSD. I haven't noticed any obvious differences but not doing anything that complex, or using jails.
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09:59 < ox1eef_> Generally I think ipfw is more so the recommended default. I use pf primiarly so there's not such a disjoint between using both fbsd/obsd. 
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14:16 < yj2> whois icepic
14:17 < yj2> oop. I'm trying to see what interesting channels other people dwell in
14:17 < yj2> gotta read some interesting conversations while I'm "working"
14:20 < sibiria> are you not pleased with the endless stream of joins/quits here? tough crowd.
14:20 < il> yj2, whois isn't going to share what channels someone is in, other than the channels you both share, I think
14:20 < yj2> sibiria: hehe I do have most of those filtered. although some get through for some reason.
14:20 < yj2> il: works on my machine
14:22 < il> yj2, really? It displays all the channels someone is in?
14:22 < sibiria> depends on if the channel has +s(ecret) mode set or not
14:23 < sibiria> and on some networks also +p(rivacy) user mode
14:23 < yj2> oh i didn't realize that. but yes, generally I see a list of channels. most people in #openbsd appear to only be in this channel, however. 
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14:26 < il> yj2, yeah, only channels you two share
14:26 < il> so it's not a reliable tool for discovering new channels
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14:27 < yj2> il: this isn't entirely correct. I run /whois on other people, and see lists of channels that I am not and have never been joined to
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14:28 < il> i think sibiria explained this, it depends on channel flags
14:28 < yj2> correct
14:30 < il> So it's not reliable, you don't control the channel flags of most channels you're in lol
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14:31 < yj2> Yes, it is not reliable in that way
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14:32 < yj2> Apart from channel flags, I wonder if it works differently on other networks like Rizon. I tend to see users in more channels over there, but it could just be demographics
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14:34 < il> I think different networks have different default channel modes/flags, Rizon might have the +s/+p ones disabled, libera might have them enabled
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14:35 < yj2> makes sense
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14:35 < il> And also depends on the ircd used
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14:38 < sibiria> and the position of the moon and planets in the solar system
14:39 < il> sibiria, it's not unimaginable
14:40 < il> But I'd guess most servers are hosted using machines which use ECC lol
14:40 < signalblue> il: you'd be suprised as to how many are just desktops in someones basement :)
14:41 < signalblue> normal desktops i mean
14:44 < il> I participate in a local hackerspace, and all the services are hosted on a 1u server in an attic space we rent cheaply. It's not terrible, but our current ISP is very unreliable, so that'll have to be replaced.
14:45 < il> The point is, I can see the appeal of limited liability solutions lol
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15:23 < nature> Hello all, back with my ipv6 issue, so after a traceroute6, this is what I see: https://0x0.st/HO3l.txt
15:24 < nature> Let me know if this makes sense, but to me this looks like pf on my server messes up with the ipv6 packet in a way that some servers don't know how to reply anymore
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15:54 < nature> I don't think pf does anything actually, my pf.conf is very simple and doesn't do much...
15:54 < nature> https://0x0.st/HOYN.txt
15:55 < nature> I am at a complete loss for the past 2 days, I don't know why certain (not all, some work, some don't) ipv6 addresses are not responding to my laptop that has a publicly reachable ipv6 address through a wireguard network
15:57 < nature> Any suggestion to even where else I could ask such a question would be welcome too, I come here since I am using OpenBSD on both machines and folks here are very knowledgeable.
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15:59 < sibiria> ask in relevant networking forum on stack overflow, maybe
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15:59 < Bradipo> What's the purpose of the "martians" in that pf.conf?
16:00 < Bradipo> First line already blocks everything with "block return log all".
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16:11 < nature> It uses the "quick" keyword, to block anything going to and fro those reserved subnets
16:11 < nature> The first line takes effect only when nothing else matches
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16:22 < Bradipo> Yes, I know what "quick" is for, but I guess I don't see the benefit or value in explicitly blocking these addresses.
16:23 < Bradipo> Is there a meaningful or measurable benefit?
16:24 < sibiria> there is on busy systems with high PPS
16:24 < sibiria> (and long rule set)
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16:25 < Bradipo> But how much of said traffic is likely to actually be present?
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16:25 < Bradipo> Am I to believe that there is all kinds of "private IP space" showing up in pf interfaces that necessitates such a rule?
16:26 < Bradipo> I would venture a guess that less than 1% of 1% of all the traffic going through pf is going to match this rule.
16:26 < Bradipo> So how does a high PPS system benefit?
16:26 < sibiria> i write rule sets the same way by principal. i "quick" all rules, most common traffic first, least common traffic last
16:26 < Bradipo> I'm not talking about "quick".
16:26 < Bradipo> I'm talking about the "martians".
16:27 < Bradipo> Yes, if a "martiain" arrives, "quick" will make it happy.  But how much actual traffic is going to be "martians"?
16:27 < sibiria> i don't know about his traffic patterns. but having martian traffic from ISP on the "WAN" port isn't uncommon
16:27 < sibiria> service announcements etc.
16:28 < sibiria> IPTV, VoIP and custom router control/update messages fall into the space of stuff the ISP will almost always be sending from private network addresses
16:28 < sibiria> it's certainly not a hundred packets a second
16:30 < nature> I haven't made any measurements on that, but I added that rule mostly because I am not interested in any martian traffic reaching my private network
16:30 < nature> Is there a way to inspect the content and header of a packet from the cli?
16:31 < nature> I wanna see if a ping6 from my machine behind the wireguard tunnel and a ping6 from my server has any difference beside the source address
16:31 < thrig> tcpdump, wireshark, etc
16:32 < nature> tcpdump with the -Ae option?
16:34 < Bradipo> I sometimes use -X
16:34 < Bradipo> Of course it's not useful for packets that are encrypted.
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16:44 < dayid> Bradipo: Yes -- private ip space showing up on pf interfaces from the WAN absolutely happens.
16:45 < Bradipo> I don't deny th at.
16:46 < dayid> Oh, thought that was a question from "( Bradipo) Am I to believe that there is all kinds of "private IP space" showing up in pf interfaces that necessitates such a rule?"
16:47 < Bradipo> And my followup to that was that it's likely less than 1% of 1% of all traffic.
16:47 < dayid> but do you want it?
16:47 < Bradipo> It's already blocked.
16:47 < Bradipo> That's the point.  The default rule blocks *all* traffic already.
16:48 < Bradipo> So maintaining a potentially inaccurate and misleading "martians" list seems superfluous, and likely not to gain anything.
16:48 < Bradipo> Unless the answer to my question of whether or not there is all kinds of "private IP space" showing up on the interfaces.
16:48 < Bradipo> Is yes.
16:49 < Bradipo> I'm highly doubtful of it, but I don't know.
16:49 < dayid> Guess I just don't follow.
16:50 < dayid> I think there's more to the "block _stateless_ traffic" in the basic 'block return log all'
16:51 < Bradipo> Well, the first block rule blocks all traffic on all interfaces.
16:51 < thrig> die localhost traffic die!
16:51 < Bradipo> After that, all that should be required are "pass" statements, or match.
16:52 < Bradipo> "set skip on lo" is active though, so localhost is ignored.
16:52 < thrig> all interfaces (minus localhost)
16:52 < Bradipo> Fair enough, it blocks all interfaces that are not skipped. :-)
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16:53 < dayid> I think it's also that very regularly people will do something simple like: `pass in on egress to port 443`
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16:54 < Bradipo> Yeah, seems alright.
16:54 < dayid> the quick+martians still protects the 443/httsd rule from the "bad networks"
16:54 < dayid> So I think it's both (a) antique (b) just still sane-default
16:54 < nature> But as soon as I use a "from any" or "to any" the martians won't be blocked anymore no?
16:54 < dayid> nature: no, because that 'pass in on...443' isn't evaluated since the martians uses 'quick'
16:55 < dayid> rules are last-match wins _unless_ "quick" is matched, which means "stop here" essentially.
16:55 < nature> I meant without the "superfluous" martian rule
16:55 < Bradipo> I see, you're right.
16:55 < Bradipo> In this case, maybe there is some smallish benefit.
16:55 < dayid> Bradipo: So I think in the default context you're right -- before you allow anything else, the block still blocks you
16:55 < dayid> err -- 'the block still blocks for you'
16:55 < Bradipo> It prevents a SYN from hitting your HTTPS server from a private IP.
16:56 < dayid> I'll provide my optimism towards that it's there as a general guidance/protection for once you modify your rules to start allowing other things
16:56 < Bradipo> Right.
16:56 < dayid> Sort of like restricting ciphers in sshd even if you don't have your sshd listening to the public internet by default
16:56 < dayid> or at least it's a comforting thought :D
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16:57 < Bradipo> Highly unlikely still that private IPs will be sending traffic to port 443.
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16:57 < Bradipo> But if it gives one warm fuzzies, so be it.
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16:59 < dayid> well, not just private -- some are reserved and other stuff --- that combined with 'antispoof' stuff I think is low-investment protection from a lot of "simple" malware type crap
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17:05 < dayid> but sorry that completely overran nature's actual question (I never scroll up soon enough before leaping in)
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17:06 < Bradipo> Right, his ipv6 problem?
17:08 < dayid> seems like pretty quick test: disable pf and try again to see if you have different results. If you do, maybe PF is involved, if not - probably not.
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17:08 < Bradipo> Yep.  pfctl -d
17:09 < dayid> or is here the "laptop" not openbsd+pf and is just referencing openbsd+pf because it's the router?
17:09 < Bradipo> If pf is making it so there are problems responding, then this should eliminate it.
17:09 < Bradipo> Hmm, more details required from nature.
17:10 < dayid> So if the routing is handled by pf such that disabling pf would break it, then the usual debug IMHO is to enable log on everything and start tcpdumping pflog in like `doas tcpdump -i pflog0 -e -ttt host LAPTOP` or whatever and see what rules are being hit and if anything is providing drops/etc.
17:10 < Bradipo> First I would make sure ipv6 is working on OpenBSD.
17:11 < dayid> Bradipo: the traceroute6 provided show it
17:12 < dayid> https://0x0.st/HO3l.txt shows traceroute6 done from the 'server' which I'm presuming is the openbsd+pf machine
17:14 < dayid> It's a little confusing because the top traceroute from laptop is to the destination that is the "bottom" destination from the server. So in segment order of "1, 2, 3, 4" 1 and 4 should be compared and 2 and 3 compared.
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17:14 < Bradipo> Unless the routes are asynchronous.
17:14 < dayid> This shows the traceroutes making it out/through the openbsd-pf machine from the laptop too though, so I don't quite supposed that PF would be involved.
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17:22 < nature> Sorry sorry, I was trying a few other things, like completely removing the laptop of the equation, so for instance the following commands get an icmp6 reply: ping6 -I *my-wg0-ipv6-address* -c3 2a00:1450:400e:811::200e
17:23 < nature> But this one doesn't: ping6 -I *my-wg0-ipv6-address* -c3 2a00:1450:400e:80f::200e
17:24 < Bradipo> Do you observe ICMP6 packets going out your wg0 interface in both cases?
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17:46 < nature> Just had a quick connection issue, not sure if you got all my messages explaining how I isolated the problem on my server and disabling pf didn't change anything
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17:52 < Bradipo> nature: Haven't seen anything except your message about disabling pf
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18:10 < nature> Here then: https://0x0.st/HOY0.txt
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18:17 < quinq> “my guess is that it's a routing issue”
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18:17 < quinq> Well, what's your routing table?
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18:20 < nature> I mean a routing issue but not on my server
18:20 < nature> because the packet can follow the correct route, but just never comes back
18:21 < quinq> What does traceroute (or mtr) say?
18:21 < nature> https://0x0.st/HO3l.txt
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18:26 < quinq> Thanks
18:26 < quinq> Here the last hop is 2001:4860:0:1::611b, not 611d
18:29 < quinq> For some reason you partially get the same route
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18:29 < quinq> But different full route
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18:37 < avemestr> Bradipo: FWIW the FAQ deals with the martians as well: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/example1.html#pf
18:39 < Bradipo> Yeah, I guess it does.
18:40 < Bradipo> I've never noticed.
18:40 < Bradipo> So, if it ever becomes a problem, I'll remember this suggestion and implement it.
18:43 < aaronm04> what's a good way to run a command on a  USB device being connected?
18:43 < xse> hotplugd ?
18:43 < avemestr> man hotplugd(8)
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18:52 < aaronm04> OK ty!
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21:03 < gry> openbsd specific - caldav client - only one timezone in the list
21:03 < gry> https://lists.inf-it.com/hyperkitty/list/davclients@lists.inf-it.com/thread/GLGBLFXZ7B7EOFN2SDBO6IXL7LC24TDK/
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22:06 < jtbx> Why doesn't ksh read ~/.kshrc on startup?
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22:10 < thrig> man ksh | fgrep -5 .kshrc
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23:10 < jtbx> thrig: I have 'export ENV=$HOME/.kshrc' in my .profile but it's still not executing. Ive also tried '. $HOME/.kshrc' but that doesn't work either for some reason
23:10 < jtbx> ENV isn't set either so .profile is not being executed, any idea why this may be happening?
23:12 < sibiria> perhaps your shell isn't ksh after all
23:12 < sibiria> . $HOME/.kshrc   in your .profile is sufficient
23:12 < sibiria> check ownership/permissions of the .kshrc
23:13 < jtbx> both .kshrc and .profile have correct permissions, and yes I am using ksh
23:14 < jtbx> somehow I have experienced this problem before
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23:17 < jtbx> ah, .profile only runs in a login shell
23:17 < jtbx> should've noticed that before, thanks for your hep guys
23:17 < jtbx> *help
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23:49 < vortexx> syspatch73-016_npppd.tgz <-- latest syspatch has landed
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 21 00:00:01 2023