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05:47 < aje> Hello. I have an old Macbook Air running OpenBSD. I use a TPLink USB wifi dongle. It seems I can only get wifi speed of <1Mbps. Could this be attributed to OpenBSD's driver being slow? 
05:49 < aje> https://clbin.com/Rwrdv is my dmesg
05:50 < zyxer> Double check that you are on 5GHz, maybe
05:50 < aje> How do I check that? 
05:53 < aje> my ifconfig: https://clbin.com/8DYw7
05:53 < zyxer> Good question. I am trying to find. I know I had issues with router feature. The "auto detect" thing, that combines the 2.4GHz band with 5GHz band, and assigns the one your computer supports. That didn't work for me 
05:55 < zyxer> But you should get around 1mb/s, probs up to 3 unless you have bad signal, or maybe the hardware you got is bad on 2.4GHz
05:55 < aje> Hmm. I am sitting right next to my wifi access point. 
05:55 < zyxer> oh, then it isn't bad signal lmao
05:56 < aje> Or could it be it's just bad hardware. I was thinking maybe OpenBSD doesn't recognize USB 2.0 / 3.0 and runs it via USB 1.0 or something
05:57 < zyxer> Could be the port isn't 3.0, have you double checked? But yea drivers may be needed for USB3.0, but I think that is for BIOS thing
05:58 < aje> Maybe I should just install Linux instead ;)
05:59 < zyxer> I had same issue on linux
05:59 < zyxer> I needed to split wifi channel on router
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06:39 < armin> phy1729: it's a a bit more complicated than i thought, but i think i'm able to build a reasonably good patch for ls with the help of a friend, yes.
06:40 < armin> phy1729: we were also able to fix the sorting with columns output.
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06:44 < armin> phy1729: looks good so far, though. will definitely try to make it as complete as i anyhow can and then submit it.
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07:02 < avemestr> armin: exa is left unmaintained. Author recommends using eza instead. 
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07:35 < lts> Still cannot alias ls with it, it seems - command line options differ from ls like they did with exa
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07:36 < lts> e.g. "ls -lS"
07:36 < avemestr> I just use colorls.
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07:37 < avemestr> Not the Ruby version, but https://openports.pl/path/sysutils/colorls
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08:22 < armin> avemestr: correct, i'm aware. i've been using workarounds now for 10 years or so on BSD and finally got the motivation to implement where it should be in the first place.
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08:23 < armin> lts: i've been using a wrapper for that for many years now and exa as an ls replacement, yea.
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08:25 < tercaL> My security audit tool "lynis" reports: "LYNIS|This release is more than 4 months old. Check the website or GitHub to see if there is an update available.", and my package version is 3.0.8, however the snapshots link from: https://ftp.spline.de/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/packages/amd64/ has: 3.0.9 package. How to update my local package with this one? Any idea please?
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08:26 < quinq> tercaL, pkg_add -u, that updates installed ports
08:26 < tercaL> quinq: Tried this one too, didn't update it.
08:26 < avemestr> tercaL: You could sysupgrade to -current and then do pkg_add -u. But then you're bleeding edge and stuff might break from time to time.
08:26 < tercaL> I have packages, no ports.
08:27 < tercaL> avemestr: My OS version is OpenBSD 7.3, how to fetch and install only that package from the url above?
08:27 < quinq> tercaL, then that means there's no available update
08:27 < tercaL> install/update
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08:27 < tercaL> The snapshots link I posted above has an updated package in tgz format.
08:27 < quinq> tercaL, packages are created from ports
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08:28 < tercaL> quinq: Is there any way to fetch that tgz and update it locally?
08:28 < tercaL> or uninstall the current one and install that one
08:28 < quinq> tercaL, https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Flavors
08:29 < tercaL> Well, I know differencies like -stable and/or going to -current, but just wanted to give only that package a try here locally..
08:29 < tercaL> without OS upgrade 
08:29 < quinq> Though the ports system works a bit differently from the base sys
08:30 < quinq> Well, you can *try*
08:30 < quinq> You could also maybe contact the maintainer
08:31 < avemestr> Or wait about an month and there's 7.4 and the new version of said program will be fetched by pkg_add -u.
08:31 < armin> armin@acid ~/lynis % ./bin/lynis
08:31 < armin> \nFatal error: can't find include directory\nMake sure to execute Lynis from untarred directory or check your installation.%
08:31 < armin> armin@acid ~/lynis %
08:32 < armin> that looks broken.
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08:34 < tercaL> Thanks for your suggestions. Tried: pkg_add -v https://ftp.spline.de/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/packages/amd64/lynis-3.0.9.tgz right now, and it seems updated, and it's working correctly.
08:35 < tercaL> However perhaps, this might create library issues? Just wanted to give it a try on an non-important virtual box..
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08:50 < tercaL> By the way, I liked that it said "updating from 3.0.8 to 3.0.9", instead of creating a separate/an another package on the system. Smart tool. Is there any way to check what libraries/dependencies the .tgz package in URL need? So that I'd do the same for other packages via the updated URL? Just trying...
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09:07 < ivandragomije> tercaL: you can use "pkg_info -v" against the file (or the url) to check that, you can also use the "pkg_add -n" against either to do a dryrun
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09:13 < tercaL> ivandragomije thanks a lot
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11:38 < il> ivandragomije, lmao kakav nik
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12:13 < ivandragomije> il: ;)
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12:14 < MaddieKalan> in pf, is a source still in the state table once it has completed the 3 way handshake? Trying to figure out if max-src-nodes would result in a maximum number of total connections or if its just the amount of connections connections that exist before the handshake completes.
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12:21 < quinq> MaddieKalan, that would be pretty useless otherwise, wouldn't it?
12:22 < MaddieKalan> quinq: How so? I just want to know if it does what I think it does.
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13:17 < armin> avemestr: question for me still is how do i write an email to the tech ML so that my ls patch actually be considered? i'm positive that my patch makes sense and that it could be included in ls, but then again, submitting a patch for ls shouldn't be your very first interaction with the tech ML.
13:23 < quinq> armin, sending a new feature proposal with a working patch is often better than without, so I think it's good in that sense
13:23 < quinq> But trying to add a non-portable option in one of the basic utilities might be another realm entirely
13:24 < quinq> Even if you or others think they'd have a use for it
13:24 < quinq> Then again, for the actual question, I think it's allright
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13:42 < armin> quinq: i still want it to be perfect, though, so i'm trying my best to make it so. :)
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13:57 < quinq> armin, I suppose that explaining your personnal use-case for it as one example of its usefulness would help
13:57 < quinq> And maybe suggesting others
13:58 < quinq> And also explaining why you can't do that simply with using other tools
13:58 < quinq> And so that it requires an addition to this tool
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14:24 < tetra_> is there any easy way to know what ports have pledge() apart from getting the cvs ports tree and check the patches? I'm specifically looking for the safest way to play video in obsd. I've checked mpv and it's not pledged.
14:25 < phy1729> They should (but don't always) have a uses pledge comment in the Makefile
14:25 < tetra_> great, thank you
14:25 < tetra_> what I do is running the program and check for the 'p' flag with ps aux
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14:35 < oldlaptop> tetra_: merely using pledge() doesn't necessarily get you much "safety" if the pledge is really wide
14:35 < oldlaptop> i.e. maybe you want to read the patch anyway
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14:57 < armin> quinq: i will still need a couple of days i fear, just set up a new mail account on my mail server i can use with just mutt inside tmux, now subscribing to the mailing lists, seeing what automated sorting for mail i can come up with, trying to become comfortable with the way people act on it, etc., will take a couple of days, but i believe that's worth it for a feature i want since 15 years.
14:58 < quinq> If you were able to live without it for 15 years, I'm not sure that's a necessary feature though ;)
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15:03 < armin> quinq: you haven't seen all the workarounds i did, installing coreutils/exa/lsd on top of bsd/macOS machines just to be able to see directories *before* files in ls output. :)
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15:07 < armin> quinq: i believe that's simply way more than just a personal preference to begin with :)
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19:01 < anthon4> Hello, I use OpenBSD 7.3, I'm dealing with an issue on OpenBSD startup, my node js app (a script rc.d) don't start, no error message. And it works when I run it manually with rcctl. If someone can help me to debug.
19:01 < quinq> Did you not manage to make your javascript tell why it was quitting?
19:03 < anthon4> I have this in at the end: https://pastebin.com/kmKZw6qM
19:04 < anthon4> when I run it manually, I get the running message, if I stop mongodb and start the app I get the error message
19:04 < anthon4> But at OpenBSD startup no output
19:05 < anthon4> see: https://pastebin.com/rVTF4XU8
19:05 < anthon4> no error/outpu in /var/log/daemon
19:05 < anthon4> output*
19:05 < anthon4> Really, I don't understand why.
19:06 < anthon4> The user _app, I created it using: useradd -s /sbin/nologin -d /var/empty -G www _app
19:06 < anthon4> Tried also: useradd -m -d /var/_app -G www _app
19:06 < anthon4> Both give the same issue
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19:06 < anthon4> rcctl start saas, works
19:06 < anthon4> not on startup
19:08 < quinq> Yes, the context is clear
19:09 < quinq> But you need to instrumentalize your software to tell why (and when) it's quitting
19:09 < anthon4> and the rc.d/saas script: https://pastebin.com/bG6KDzZU
19:09 < avemestr> I recall somebody saying something about delaying saas startup, to ensure mongodb is ready when saas starts. 
19:10 < anthon4> already tried using rc_pre() same issue
19:10 < anthon4> even using the root user instead of _app
19:11 < anthon4> I tried this:
19:11 < anthon4> rc_pre() {
19:11 < anthon4>          while ! pgrep -q mongod; do sleep 1; done;
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19:11 < anthon4>  }
19:11 < anthon4> same.
19:11 < zyxer> Anyone knows about stopping library reordering and kernel linking?
19:11 < quinq> mongodb process being started doesn't mean it's ready to serve requests though
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19:15 < anthon4> Also tried waiting this listening: 127.0.0.1.27017
19:16 < quinq> again
19:16 < quinq> Why not tracing your application to see when and why it's quitting?
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19:16 < quinq> zyxer, in /usr/libexec/reorder_kernel they say to put an invalid /bsd shasum
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19:19 < sibiria> zyxer: there's an rc.conf parameter for stopping library relinking. for kernel you need to get a bit dirty
19:20 < sibiria> for the kernel you can comment the step out in /etc/rc, or you can change /var/db/kernel.SHA256
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19:28 < zyxer> Thanks! 
19:29 < zyxer> First thing I will try when I get home from the shift. Gonna test how much faster my ancient thing will boot after that. 
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19:41 < quinq> zyxer, just don't reboot
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19:59 < aaronm04> does /etc/rc get overwritten on upgrade?
19:59 < zyxer> quinq: won't it get hot?  
20:00 < zyxer> Hmm... Maybe, I should maybe try to not reboot, since we are going into colder times it would work as a radiator. But the electric bill will be sus
20:00 < thrig> save on heating bills by running a rack of servers
20:00 < sibiria> aaronm04: it will if patched
20:00 < quinq> zyxer, there's S3
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20:12 < zyxer> S3???
20:12 < quinq> “sleep”
20:13 < zyxer> True
20:13 < zyxer> good call 
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21:24 < armin> i'm just happy you're not referencing to the proprietary storage.
21:25 < quinq> Hummm
21:25 < quinq> I have proprietary storage
21:25 < armin> ok
21:25 < armin> i don't :)
21:25 < quinq> strange
21:25 < quinq> All your data is public?
21:25 < zyxer> >_>
21:26 < armin> meh. :)
21:26 < quinq> I keep mine a few meters from here
21:26 < armin> mine is 4 meters away from here to be exact. :)
21:27 < quinq> How do we get public access to it?
21:27 < armin> probably by ordering huge amounts of beer to my home?
21:27 < quinq> That's a good way to know the location indeed
21:28 -!- paper__ is now known as paper_
21:28 < armin> hm, point.
21:28 < zyxer> I think it is technically still not public access. 
21:28 < quinq> I'm trying to understand how it's not private
21:28 < zyxer> Proprietary doesn't mean private
21:29 < armin> quinq: it totally is, i was just trying to point out i would never use amazon s3 to store it or something. :)
21:29 < quinq> Ahhh, that would be a language problem
21:29 < zyxer> Proprietary means like, I guess NTFS is proprietary, and most cloud services as well
21:29 < armin> i'm not a native speaker.
21:29 < armin> sorry. :)
21:29 < quinq> I mine, being the proprietary of something means that you own it
21:30 < quinq> armin, me neither
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21:30 < quinq> I think I've heard of amazon s3, but don't know what that is
21:30 < zyxer> Ah, yea that is another meaning of the word yes. I think this is the first time I seen someone in tech related group use the word proprietary in that sense
21:32 < armin> zyxer: that confuses me. stallman was complaining about things being proprietary for decades. :)
21:33 < armin> oh i shouldn't have mentioned him over here, i guess, but hey.
21:33 < thrig> data improprieties
21:33 < zyxer> Yea. 
21:33 < zyxer> The one who shall not be named has done a lot of complaining about proprietary stuff. But like, proprietary isn't necessarily bad per se
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21:38 < armin> i refuse to have a strong opinion on this as long as you don't put data into s3 buckets.
21:39 < sibiria> s3 is fine. so is backblaze and storj etc. just encrypt your data first
21:40 < armin> sibiria: how would you even mount that on openbsd? rclone?
21:43 < zyxer> Cloud should be illegal to use unless it is your own. <:1
21:44 < armin> zyxer: wait until you realize there's actually some piece of software called "owncloud" (i consider that illegal to use, too, but that's a different thing).
21:44 < sibiria> armin: not sure if the s3 module for fuse works under openbsd. i wouldn't use it as a live file system. i'd just transfer to it when necessary, same way i would for ftp storage or so
21:44 < thrig> cloud is just a funny way to say 'time sharing'
21:44 < armin> sibiria: eww.
21:44 < armin> thrig: this.
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21:49 < sibiria> not particularly "ewww" to me. for remote backups i prefer if they aren't mounted as a file system, to reduce risk of typical accidents
21:49 < sibiria> i like having e.g. ftp client in the way
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22:05 < armin> sibiria: sure, if it helps you having something in the way that keeps you from shooting yourself in the foot, why not, but that's not me. :)
22:06 < armin> that being said rclone seems to work great for s3/sshfs shares.
22:06 < sibiria> it's not anyone until it happens. everyone has accidentally deleted a file (or an entire dir)
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22:07 < armin> correct, but not everyone did have a backup at that point.
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22:30 < oldlaptop> sibiria: playing devil's advocate: suppose the fake backup filesystem implements unlink() as a versioned operation, to the point of not supporting removal at all
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22:32 < oldlaptop> on "just encrypt it first", you don't even have to bother writing the code for that yourself: https://openports.pl/path/sysutils/tarsnap
22:32 < oldlaptop> (although you aren't paying for the S3 directly yourself at that point)
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22:45 < armin> oldlaptop: while that's absolutely technically correct, this does *not* look like you should consider it for bigger data amounts:
22:45 < armin> Storage: 	250 picodollars / byte-month of encoded data
22:45 < armin> ($0.25 / GB)
22:45 < armin> ($0.25 / GB-month)
22:45 < armin> Bandwidth: 	250 picodollars / byte of encoded data
22:45 < thrig> isn't it nanodollars these days?
22:46 < oldlaptop> armin: (note that that's *after* compression and deduplication)
22:46 < armin> well that won't fly, people have data these days.
22:47 < armin> and we're not talking data hoarder amounts here, this gets pricely pretty fast.
22:48 < armin> looks like a reasonable possibility nevertheless if you don't have crazy data amounts.
22:49 < oldlaptop> Yes, it is a reasonable possiblity.
22:49 < oldlaptop> I'm sure backing up terabytes and terabytes of pirated movies with it becomes a bad idea at some point.
22:51 < armin> well i'm a non-professional music producer and DJ, alone the stuff i get sent and i buy would make me a poor man.
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22:51 < armin> and that's not video.
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22:54 < sibiria> i use storj. if it had "infinite" amount of data to back up i'd use backblaze
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22:55 < zyxer> Life hack: Use google drive for garbage data
22:55 < sibiria> if i had*
22:56 < armin> i wouldn't store a dump of /dev/urandom on google.
22:57 < oldlaptop> Why would you store a dump of /dev/urandom?
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22:57 < thrig> bobby's first /dev/urandom dump - cherish the memory
22:57 < sibiria> high-qual random data. gotta save it for important future
22:58 < thrig> ... wasting 70.9M in my LMMS directory ...
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23:15 < zyxer> What
23:15 < zyxer> You don't randomly fill up your drive with /dev/urandom dump?
23:16 < zyxer> Maybe I am too tinfoil hattery but deleted files can be restored unless you overwrite the specific sectors they are on 
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23:16 < thrig> you could also hit the failed drive with a large mallet a lot
23:16 < zyxer> dd if=/dev/urandom of=file_on_partition_to_clean
23:17 < zyxer> Wat
23:17 < zyxer> I mean if someone steals my hardware or something
23:17 < zyxer> I don't know
23:17 < zyxer> I want security, the reason I picked OpenBSD
23:17 < oldlaptop> If you want to get to that level of silliness, modern storage devices won't necessarily overwrite the same storage. (SSDs almost certainly won't.)
23:18 < il> Just don't store anything, everything in ram and your head
23:18 < zyxer> But if you fill up entire drive it should overwrite all unused sectors, no?
23:18 < oldlaptop> I don't think the usual procedure involves a large mallet, but physical destruction is the standard where it actually matters.
23:18 < zyxer> I extract the harddrive from HDDs and use them as glass thing
23:18 < oldlaptop> https://html.duckduckgo.com/html?q=Hard%20disk%20shredder
23:19 < oldlaptop> (a smattering of those are actually software here, but not most of them)
23:19 < zyxer> No, I reuse them as protecting thing on table, you know the thing you place under glasses to avoid getting stains on table
23:19 < zyxer> If I want to get rid of a drive that is
23:19 < zyxer> A HDD
23:20 < zyxer> Hammer for old SSD
23:21 < oldlaptop> That wouldn't cut it where it actually matters. (You couldn't put the platter in a normal HDD and expect anything to work for long, but the data aren't destroyed by the act of compromising the seal on an HDD.)
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23:21 < zyxer> It gets scratches and coffe and mead stains
23:22 < oldlaptop> I'm sure the black helicopters will be disgusted as they read your secrets through the mead stains
23:22 < zyxer> I gues I would technically need to scratch the entire surface to be 100% sure, but I also don't think any government agency or whatever is competent enough to recognise random drives outside casing
23:22 < zyxer> LMAO
23:23 < thrig> skol one for the home team
23:23 < oldlaptop> (Whether surface abrasion is "enough" would depend on the platters.)
23:23 < oldlaptop> Those old deathstars should be pretty much hosed when you get them (they get themselves) down to clear glass.
23:24 < thrig> I bought a whole set of drives from the quantum fireball factory of doom
23:25 < il> a coaster, zyxer 
23:25 < il> idk if a platter is that good of a coaster
23:25  * oldlaptop pelts il with misburnt CD-Rs
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23:25 < thrig> cds probably make for better coasters
23:25 < il> I don't know whether it's fool proof, but I've seen drives get drilled in movies/shows, so i guess that's one way to do it
23:26 < oldlaptop> It'll hose the data where the holes were pretty darned well
23:26 < oldlaptop> probably make it seriously annoying, but not necessarily impossible, to recover the rest
23:26 < zyxer> lmao 
23:26 < martian67> nobody is going to reconstruct data from random platters
23:26 < il> oldlaptop, i'm not understanding you
23:26 < martian67> maybe if you stole nuclear secrets and the NSA and CIA were after you, maybe
23:26 < martian67> this is completely pointless paranoia
23:26 < zyxer> Yea 
23:26 < martian67> there are 100 other ways you are gonna get owned in dumb ways
23:26 < martian67> first
23:26 < thrig> *almost nobody. probably not your precious bodily disks
23:27 < zyxer> Exactly, so I don't bother doing too much to the drives I gut out the actual hard drive from 
23:27 < martian67> more than 100
23:27 < oldlaptop> martian67: As a practical matter, absent contexts where the word "espionage" is seriously involved, I'd agree
23:27 < martian67> much more
23:27 < oldlaptop> (not necessarily state actors, I guess? lots of money on the line with trade secrets and so on)
23:27 < zyxer> But it is good to know it may not be enough to actually prevent recovery
23:27 < zyxer> And some of those drives were randomly obtained from a friend that doesn't know what is on them or where they came from. 
23:28 < martian67> this is the typical security wank where people ask "IS AES BACKDOORED???" 
23:28 < zyxer> So I may unknowingly have government secrets lmao
23:28 < martian67> meanwhile they are running an unpatched apache server, and BIND
23:28 < zyxer> LMAO
23:28 < oldlaptop> zyxer: Drives that had government secrets on them will have gone through a shredder.
23:28 < martian67> focus onm shit that fuckin matters
23:28 < zyxer> Intel ME
23:28 < il> Has anyone here drunk club-mate? I got a chance to try it the other day.
23:28 < thrig> like that basket of chrome 0days
23:28 < il> the ice tea
23:29 < martian67> thrig:  yep
23:29 < oldlaptop> martian67: I wonder how many... entities are using broken encryption because they don't trust AES
23:30 < thrig> didn't azure have problems with keys going on walkabout
23:30 < zyxer> Bitlocker 
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23:31  * oldlaptop thinks back to some news story years and years ago about some jihadist types getting caught because they didn't trust AES and independently invented the caesar cipher instead
23:31 < thrig> it can work if you can grow your hair back over the cipher
23:32  * oldlaptop is almost certainly thinking of https://it.slashdot.org/story/11/04/01/0017214/Convicted-Terrorist-Relied-On-Single-Letter-Cipher
23:32 < zyxer> I have a nice cipher I think is AI safe but also insanely anoying to read
23:34 < zyxer> Take sqtr(53), then take first digit, let's say it is 3, then you take the third word in the sentence first, and do same procedure for each letter in it (and add the following number) so you shuffle the order of words as well as the letters order on top of making it random amount of letters back or forward. 
23:35 < zyxer> I don't think an AI can crack that or some quantum thing. But I haven't done the math on that so I dunno maybe it is easy to crack. 
23:35 < thrig> if you tell us the cipher it might be easier to figure out
23:36 < zyxer> ??
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23:36 < zyxer> I made it up ? 
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--- Log closed Mon Sep 25 00:00:07 2023