--- Log opened Tue Sep 26 00:00:08 2023
00:01 < coreystephanphd> armin: Oh, I get it. I used to use Manjaro for gaming and FreeBSD for my actual work. That was when I had time. Now that I do not have time, because of having a wife and toddlers and a more than full-time job, Debian Stable and OpenBSD. Install. Updates every other week or so. Forget.
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00:04 < coreystephanphd> All good stuff. Not starting anything. Just saying that the dependability is what matters to me most now.
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00:26 < zyxer> Manjaro is the most unstable today anyway. It has been memed so hard. Arch looks very stable compared to manjaro 
00:27 < aaronm04> Manjaro lags on security updates which is unacceptable in 2023
00:28 < aaronm04> that said, I haven't personally noticed stability issues. I dual boot Manjaro and OpenBSD on a laptop
00:28 < aaronm04> The Manjaro install will probably be replaced with Arch or Debian
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00:36 < zyxer> I prefer void when in need of linux. It is stable rolling release. 
00:36 < zyxer> But.... Pufferfish when linux is not needed
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00:51 < nature> So there was no indication as to why my server did not pickup /bsd.upgrade when rebooting in  /var/log/messages
00:51 < nature> Is there anywhere else I could get that info?
00:51 < nature> Or a configuration to force my server to upgrade?
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01:00 < ssm_> zyxer: ever try alpine
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02:02 < zyxer> Never tried it. I think once but it was back in the day I gamed and it couldn
02:02 < zyxer> t game properly
02:02 < zyxer> So I just installed one pkg then uninstalled alpine
02:02 < zyxer> ssm?
02:02 < zyxer> ssm_
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04:13 < mornfall> anyone using xmonad btw? i get a SIGILL on startup on recent-ish snapshots :\ i should probably configure awesomewm or something, but it's not like i have time for that :p
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10:01 < armin> <- i3, dwm, bspwm, awesome, herbstluftwm.
10:01 < armin> (in order of appearance)
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10:04 < armin> aaronm04, coreystephanphd: i'm more and more prefering artix over manjaro these days (ain't got no time for systemd), but i must say that manjaro is some kind of idiot-proof nice-to-have-on-a-usb-drive kind of thing for me.
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10:15 < remiliascarlet> Manjaro has allowed their SSL certificate to expire so many times (and by this, breaking pacman), and their solution being "just set your system clock back by a few weeks brah", it's kinda hard to not view it as some meme distro.
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10:20 < sibiria> i use(d) manjaro for my Pinebook Pro. my main gripe with it is KDE Plasma, which is a clumsy slob of a desktop environment
10:21 < sibiria> XFCE edition is a bit leaner, but still suffers from a few other problems
10:21 < sibiria> gets the job done, though
10:22 < remiliascarlet> To me, all the DE's suck nowadays. I'm just using DWM on both Linux and OpenBSD (and SXMO on PinePhone, which is DWM anyway).
10:23 < remiliascarlet> SXMO is the only UI that doesn't drain batteries like a motherfucker.
10:24 < sibiria> i like linux mint's Cinnamon. been using it for 7 or 8 years on my work laptop. clean and no hassle
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10:25 < zyxer> cwm is good for me
10:25 < zyxer> I left dwm
10:25 < zyxer> Also, Remilias theme is a banger
10:27 < zyxer> Septette for the dead princess
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11:01 < remiliascarlet> zyxer: I really like the music ZUN composes.
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11:08 < orwell> Hi, my firewall doesn't answers requests like `icmp6: neighbor sol: who has 2a01:xx:xx:xx::xx` although I pass out everything from self and pass in neighbrsol and neighbradv. What am I missing?
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11:26 < orwell> pflog logged a blocked request for an address in the range of ff02::
11:26 < orwell> if i allow icmp to this address, everything works
11:26 < orwell> can somebody explain why?
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11:48 < babouille> hard to say without seeing you rules, but I'd say "quick"
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11:51 < rjc> orwell: that's a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicited-node_multicast_address
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11:53 < orwell> rjc, so it's correct to pass these kind of addresses?
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11:58 < rjc> afaik, if you want ndp to work, then yes
11:58 < orwell> ok, thx
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13:08 < kodcode> can you recommend a status-bar (clock, battery, open windows) for cwm?
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13:21 < avemestr> I use lemonbar for i3. It just reads text.
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13:24 < il> I've never set up a bar, I use cwm barless lol
13:24 < il> tmux status bar for important info
13:24 < avemestr> That's a low bar to set.
13:24 < avemestr> (pun intended)
13:24 < il> :)
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13:25 < il> You can display anything in tmux status bar, so not that far off from other minimalist bars
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13:36 < Lucas6023> lemonbar, dzen2
13:37 < Lucas6023> kodcode: ^
13:37 < ember3> hey, I just did a fresh install of openbsd and I'm getting extremely laggy keyboard input in console and X. it's like a 9600 baud telnet or something. any ideas?
13:39 < IcePic> perhaps check "systat vm 1" and see if there is a huge number of interrupts from one of the irq sources
13:39 < IcePic> and/or lots of sys/int/trp time being accounted
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13:41 < ember3> ok thanks
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13:57 < avemestr> John Carmack, for one, is quite happy with the low latency of keyboard input on OpenBSD: https://nitter.net/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1259609098502451211#m
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14:16 < thrig> you must construct additional keyboard frameworks!
14:20 < babouille> i mean, when your expecctation is "faster than windows", it's not really difficult...
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14:22 < IcePic> thrig: tmux all the wsmux input channels!
14:22 < avemestr> class KeyboardInputFactory. See also: https://factoryfactoryfactory.net/
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14:24 < thrig> kubernetes layer, political layer, investor layer, 
14:24 < il> what's going on
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14:41 < nature> Hello, I still haven't figured out why after a sysupgrade and a reboot my server is not upgrading to 7.3 from 7.2. Any idea on how to investigate why it doesn't want to upgrade, the logs in /var/log/messages are not very helpful...
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15:11 < dayid> nature: What's the output when you run sysupgrade? Is it downloading 7.3 paths? Are you sure it's rebooting to the upgrade kernel? etc?
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16:50 < nature> dayid: Yes, it's downloading all the sets properly, it is also creating the /bsd.upgrade and it properly reboots
16:50 < nature> I also tried to manually reboot after a sysupgrade -n
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16:54 < nature> And at the same time I am having another issue >.< one of my server doesn't get a default route, I am not sure why, I did setup the ip address manually along with the netmask
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16:56 < dayid> nature: So are you _booting_ the bsd.upgrade?
16:57 < nature> never mind for the second issue, I forgot to create the /etc/mygate file
16:57 < nature> dayid: I don't have physical access to the machine
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17:03 < nature> So I am not sure how to "boot the bsd.upgrade" remotely
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17:35 < tetra_> When I run netcat in a IPv6-only host it only listens to ipv4 address unless I specify -6. Should I prepare a patch for nc(1) or this may be a bug in nc?
17:38 < Shirkdog> that may be working as designed...that has always been the default...man page does not say anything about default though...
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17:39 < tetra_> but there's "-4      Use IPv4 addresses only."
17:40 < Shirkdog> Yeah I would need to look at the source code, probably that was added when IPv6 was added...
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17:46 < tercaL> I look for troubleshoot and fix my issue related to my Node.js application's startup script. This is a Node.js app named 'app' (a PoC), I can manually start and stop the app using rcctl start|stop app. However, during OpenBSD's startup, the rc.d script for the app executes, but the app does not seem to start.
17:47 < tercaL> Any clue?
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18:24 < dayid> nature: If you're not getting the output of a system upgrade, and you aren't positive it is booting /bsd.upgrade, then _my_ next step would be do like "doas cp /bsd /obsd; doas cp /bsd.upgrade /bsd; reboot" to make sure that it's definitely hitting the bsd.upgrade kernel.
18:24 < dayid> (but that you still have /obsd if you need to use it to boot)
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18:35 < nature> dayid: What happens when I do that, will it reboot properly?
18:36 < nature> Because as I said I don't have physical access to my machine, so if it can't reboot properly without "manual" intervention, it'll be annoying
18:36 < thrig> test it on a local machine first
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19:46 < vortexx> nature: test it in a local VM before doing it remotely if you're really unsure
19:46 < vortexx> the installer *should* replace your current /bsd with the 7.3 one
19:47 < avemestr> So, just added a monitor to my setup. Daisy-chained via USB-C. It Just Works(TM).
19:47 < avemestr> Had to tell xrandr that the new monitor was above and not right-of my primary, but that was no biggie.
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19:48 < avemestr> nature: It is not possible to get some kind of KVM on that machine?
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20:32 < nature> But testing on a vm is not a given since the "normal" behavior should be that it actually upgrades when reboot, I have no idea how to reproduce that setup in a vm...
20:33 < thrig> I've never seen openbsd not upgrade properly
20:33 < nature> But since my server doesn't upgrades when rebooting despite /bsd.upgrade being present after a sysupgrade tells me that something is up
20:33 < nature> I mean for some reason when I reboot I am back on 7.2
20:34 < nature> I did sysupgrade multiple times, I see it downloading the sets and rebooting
20:34 < nature> but when I connect back in ssh, I am still on 7.2
20:34 < nature> I tried sysupgrade -n and the last line of log told me that it would upgrade after the next reboot
20:35 < dayid> The only time I've had it "not" reboot right is when I've had weird times where /bsd.upgrade didn't get triggered for whatever reason; where moving it to /bsd "caught" it - and then the installer/upgrade handles replacing it w/ the new /bsd anyways.
20:35 < uwharrie> when was the last time you had a successful installboot(8)?
20:35 < nature> I did reboot, and again when connecting after the reboot, it's still on 7.2
20:35 < dayid> ah, then yeah - "hitting the kernel" isn't the issue if you're getting the upgrade e-mail and new sets, etc.
20:36 < nature> I don't get the upgrade email
20:36 < nature> I run sysupgrade, it automatically reboots after downloading the sets, but then it's still on 7.2
20:36 < dayid> then the upgrade is failing _somewhere_
20:37 < dayid> if you're not getting the e-mail.
20:37 < dayid> If remote sounds like you need a serial access or KVM or something to see what's dying.
20:37 < nature> arf...
20:38 < nature> I am not back until in 2-3 months...
20:38 < sibiria> just in time for 7.4
20:38 < eea> woo 7.4!
20:40 < uwharrie> it sounds like the bootloader isn't detecting the presence of /bsd.upgrade
20:40 < nature> Here: https://0x0.st/HVeU.txt
20:40 < nature> That's what I see
20:40 < sibiria> nature: i asked before, but have you reconfigured the kernel? (with config(8))
20:41 < sibiria> i cannot recall if you answered
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20:41 < sibiria> also, stop using doas for everything. it's clumsy and abusive. this has been a PSA
20:41 < sibiria> su to root, then run sysupgrade
20:42 < nature> sibiria: yes you did, and no I never touched anything in config(8) :)
20:42 < sibiria> do you happen to have the file /auto_upgrade.conf
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20:43 < sibiria> (after sysupgrade finished)
20:43 < nature> Also here is what appeared in /var/log/messages: https://0x0.st/HVeG.txt
20:43 < nature> Let me check
20:43 < nature> yes the file is present
20:44 < sibiria> have a look-see inside, in case you spot something looking really off or something you suspect might clash with your setup
20:44 < nature> Also with regards to doas, what is the use case for doas then? I am not sure when I should use doas and when I should use su?
20:44 < sibiria> if you ask me, doas is for automation
20:44 < sibiria> my perspective is that it's just unwise to hand out bonus super-user privileges to your regular wheelie user
20:45 < sibiria> it's a seucrity concern at its core
20:45 < sibiria> root's password should stand in the way of anything super-user
20:45 < sibiria> if you're present, substitute for root, do your stuff, then get out
20:46 < nature> oooh ok, what about "one-off"?
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20:46 < sibiria> the alternative is 100 lines long "really convenient" doas file with tonnes of privileges that blur the line between user and super-user, which is bad
20:46 < nature> also here is the content of auto_upgrade.conf: https://0x0.st/HVed.txt
20:46 < nature> Nothing abnormal to me
20:47 < sibiria> seems normal to me as well
20:48 < nature> all the sets in there are brand new (just downloaded from my last sysupgrade -n)
20:48 < nature> in /home/_sysupgrade I mean
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20:54 < brynet> nature: If you don't have console access, or can't easily get it, and sysupgrade is failing, there's always the manual upgrade procedure: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/upgrade73.html#NoInstKern
20:55 < brynet> In remote upgrade situations, you really ought to have console access.
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20:56 < brynet> There is no way to see early boot and upgrade output otherwise
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21:05 < avemestr> Weee: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=169573470525510&w=2
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21:19 < nature> The thing is that this happened last time to me as well (from 7.1 to 7.2) and if I remember correctly, as soon as I hooked a screen to watch what was happening, the upgrade proceeded smoothly, I will have to see if this happens again
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21:19 < avemestr> A Heisenbug.
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21:29 < yj2> nature: The phenomena you are describing is something that I dubbed "some bullshit". I first notice this in datacentre, if some machine was take too long to come back up, just physically move crash cart close to the box and it comes back up like magic. In the end, it was standard process to wheel cart over but not actually connect it, just try ssh again after locating cart near down machine.
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23:52 < joe9> anyone using the latest version of yt-dlp? The ports version seems a few months behind the github release.
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23:54 < thrig> it's broken in 7.3 so I'm waiting for 7.4, I guess
23:54 < joe9> oh, it is?
23:55 < joe9> what do you use in the meantime? youtube-dl?
23:55 < thrig> I don't download videos
23:56 < joe9> good boy..
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23:57 < ariel> youtubedown is pretty good. https://www.jwz.org/hacks/
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23:59 < bountyht> joe9: An invbidious instance that has downloading enabled can do if you don't want to keep installing and updating software
23:59 < bountyht> invidious*
--- Log closed Wed Sep 27 00:00:09 2023