--- Log opened Sat Sep 30 00:00:04 2023
--- Day changed Sat Sep 30 2023
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07:44 < avemestr> vortexx: Weird. Normally the tale is that FreeBSD has much better performance on the APU-devices compared to OpenBSD.
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07:53 < zyxer> Yea, the APUs aren't the best at single thread performance
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07:53 < zyxer>  Allegedly I should get faster internet if I switch to FreeBSD or some FreeBSD based OS
07:54 < zyxer> However, pufferfish. Do I need another reason to stick to OpenBSD on router?
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07:54 < avemestr> I think I'll finally upgrade to some SuperMicro this October.. The APU4D4 has served me well.
07:55 < avemestr> Yep, I'd rather buy beefier HW and stay on OpenBSD than switch to... anything else.
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07:59 < zyxer> The APUs are the most open hardware/firmware I am aware of
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07:59 < zyxer> So I personally rather stay on bottlenecked 500mbit/s network
07:59 < zyxer> than switch to beefier but proprietary spooky hardware 
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08:01 < zyxer> Uh... How do I open those old IBM drives?
08:01 < zyxer> https://www.vogons.org/download/file.php?id=63157&mode=view
08:02 < zyxer> I know this isn't really software related, but I am gonna try to get OpenBSD running on that 16mb laptop
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08:02 < zyxer> But first I want to make a backup of that drive, dd it to a file 
08:03 < zyxer> But those old ass thonkpads have some other drive connector, and the IBM drives are just normal IDE in casing that has adapter to whatever (probably proprietary) the thinkpad uses on MoBo
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08:04 < zyxer> because if I can't run OpenBleSseD on it I rather have a backup of the windows 3 that it can actually run
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08:07 < nedko> zyxer: 16M RAM will probably be not enough
08:08 < nedko> at least not latest openbsd version
08:10 < zyxer> Yea but it can be expanded to an entire 32mb
08:11 < zyxer> And I know my iMac eats around 10-20 in tty
08:11 < zyxer> To be clear I do not expect it to work very smooth, but I will at least try to make it work
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08:11 < zyxer> Also I don't expect the drive to work much
08:12 < zyxer> much longer*
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08:48 < zyxer> I solved it
08:48 < zyxer> DDing
08:48 < zyxer> 286kB/s
08:48 < zyxer> 800mb drive
08:49 < renaud> sibiria: it seems oracle cloud only allows 2 block volumes now
08:49 < renaud> 2 free ones
08:49 < zyxer> I am running in the 90's
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11:03 < avemestr> Real Soon Now: https://www.openbsd.org/plus74.html
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11:08 < avemestr> Lots of pf changes related to locks.
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11:13 < zyxer> Noice
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11:20 < myappie> avemestr: what are your thoughts on pf-badhost?
11:21 < myappie> its impossible to uninstall
11:21 < myappie> the structure of the shell script is a mess
11:21 < myappie> and the IPs are more if you were a pedo in the 80s or something
11:21 < myappie> it's banning class A++ ISPs
11:23 < avemestr> myappie: Example of these A++ ISP IPs that are banned?
11:23 < myappie> ok maybe vultr.com isn't a++
11:24 < myappie> it keeps banning my domainnameshop.com though
11:24 < myappie> and pretty much any IP I don't whitelist first
11:24 < myappie> although whitelisting didnt work, but that was probably me being sloppy
11:25 < myappie> i'm like "god what would it take geogehan to just run the damn thing through chatgpt completions"
11:25 < avemestr> I guess bad actors are using Vultr VMs and at some point the people maintaining the blocklists decided to include some (all?) Vultr IPs on the list.
11:25 < myappie> indeed
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11:26 < avemestr> myappie: You could investigate where pf-badhost gets the IPs from. I think there's 3 or 4 main lists that are imported in the script.
11:26 < avemestr> And then ask them for removal (optimistic!).
11:27 < avemestr> I've bought a domain that was on a DNS blocklist at Github where the author was like "I'm not maintaining this anymore, so no changes are made". Annoying.
11:29 < avemestr> The domain in question was not offensive in any way, btw. Unclear why it was on his list. Yet, everybody using his list in unbound would not be able to access the domain.
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11:49 < avemestr> myappie: Anyway, I think you should investigate if the IP is on a list by Spamhaus, Firehol, blocklist.de or whatever else pf-badhost is using as a source.
11:49 < avemestr> Afterwards ask them to remove "your" IP from their list (optimistic), or try to get Vultr to care about the issue (even more optimistic).
11:50 < sibiria> i think part of the problem is that pf-badhost ropes in _every_ badlist it can find
11:50 < sibiria> it sort of puts the user in something along the lines of an enclave
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11:57 < avemestr> Yeah... On my home connection I don't mind blocking a lot of stuff as soon as possible. On web facing servers, it might not always be a good idea to exclude large swarthes of the internet if one wants people to get access to ones content..
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13:03 < byteskeptical> avemestr: a lot, if not all the default lists pf-badhosts uses can be reached out too for false positives. you can also add an exclude list of you have known good hosts in a blocked ip or ip range
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14:08 < vortexx> avemestr: yes it's very strange. pf on FreeBSD is meant to be multithreaded isn't it? Oh well, 10 year old CPUs and all that...
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14:10 < IcePic> I don't think it matters that much, pf in itself doesn't take a lot of time, but fbsd network stack is lots more mp than obsds
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14:13 < zyxer> It bottlenecks on my APU
14:14 < zyxer> the issue is packages
14:14 < sibiria> pf's table lookups are pretty fast, but things can get heavy all the same if you have a table with a million networks to dig through for every packet...
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14:16 < byteskeptical> are you aggragating?
14:17 < byteskeptical> s/aggragating/aggregating
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14:38 < vortexx> sibiria: I was using the example pf ruleset that comes with FreeBSD, the super basic NAT, a few ports open, nothing more. I was really surprised how the performance went down
14:40 < vortexx> the ruleset was probably 10 lines
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14:57 < sibiria> vortexx: perf measurably goes down when enabling pf in openbsd, too, but thankfully it matters less whether you have 3-4 rules or 30-40
14:58 < sibiria> (unless you're working with a few hundred thousand PPS or more)
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15:04 < eea> i had a 10Gbe link go from 8.5Gbps without pf to just over 6Gbps with a single pf rule enabled
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15:13 < vortexx> did what I just posted get through before the disconnect?
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15:14 < avemestr> I have nothing after eea.
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15:20 < zyxer> OpenBSD is drunk
15:20 < zyxer> It keeps denying me wifi
15:20 < zyxer> Claiming that permission denied hardware switch is tutned off
15:21 < zyxer> But there is no hardware switch, and I tried the fn wifi button
15:21 < zyxer> Nothing
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15:21 < zyxer> I even check the BIOS
15:22 < zyxer> I need bf for moral support. He gone for the weekend 
15:22 < zyxer> T-T
15:22 < sibiria> maybe he can provide technical support instead, over network. it usually works better than moral support
15:23 < zyxer> No he doesn't even know what ssh is lmao
15:23 < zyxer> And When I mentioned BSD a few months ago he asked "BDSM?"
15:23 < sibiria> easily confused to outsiders
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15:24 < zyxer> Nah but I think it is issue with openBSD not knowing what the fn wifi does or so
15:25 < zyxer> I probs accidentally clicked that when I was booted on linux USB to access LUKS drive
15:25 < sibiria> openbsd is lacking a lot in wifi. for client side, the intel stuff works reasonably well and some of it works great
15:25 < sibiria> those are the breaks
15:25 < zyxer> So, I guess it is a bugg?
15:25 < zyxer> Nah this laptop and wifi chip has worked until today
15:26 < sibiria> then maybe breadcrumbs got into it
15:26 < zyxer> And last time I used it I was in Linux USB, and used the F2 button, forgetting the BIOS was set to invert (e.g. f2 was wifi switch and fn+f2 is f2)
15:27 < zyxer> Gonna test if that fixes it. If it does I will say here. But first gotta find USB
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15:30 < Lucas6024> anybody knows the maximum number of files that a FFS2-based *directory* can hold? I have a Maildir with 200k files in cur
15:30 < Lucas6024> and I fear a bit running out of files
15:30 -!- Lucas6024 is now known as Lucas6023
15:33 < eea> Lucas6023: i'd wouldn't get concerned until file count broke into the millions
15:34 < eea> looking for citation, but iirc, the upper limit is something like 10 million files per dir
15:34 < Lucas6023> cool
15:35 < zyxer> Man, and here I thought the solution was a touch loop so you wouldn't run out of files
15:35 < eea> but keep an eye on inode usage... `df -hi` 
15:35 < eea> ifree is the key
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15:36 < Lucas6023> I'm more than fine in that front, but I kinda recall a limit for files in a directory
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15:38 < thrig> too many files in a directory can get too slow before any limit is hit
15:38 < eea> ^
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15:45 < zyxer> OK LMAO
15:45 < zyxer> So the issue was that OpenBSD doesn't know what the fn radio disable button means or does
15:46 < zyxer> Going into linux USB, pressing fn+f2 (wifi diability), then reboot into OpenBSD on disk, now wifi works again
15:46 < zyxer> I still need my bf for moral support
15:46 < zyxer> T-T
15:47 < nedko> zyxer: did you got wifi and usb in 90s? :)
15:47 < zyxer> No? What?
15:47 < nedko> i'm joking about the 90s laptop and openbsd
15:48 < zyxer> Oh
15:48 < nedko> unsuccessfully, as it became obvious :)
15:48 < zyxer> The laptop has neither wifi or USB
15:48 < zyxer> Lmao, I got 2 laptops, one from 95
15:48 < zyxer> And one with ryzen 3700u
15:49 < zyxer> the ryzen one had wifi issue due to fn key thing linux as described
15:49 -!- acidfoo [~acidfoo@modemcable137.64-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openbsd
15:49 < zyxer> I'm like a kid (from the past) on christmas I really want those floppy disks with games
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15:50 < sibiria> laptop without usb? uh.
15:51 -!- CosmicDJ [~cosmicdj@p200300e24f0732015d953b565a11979c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openbsd
15:51 < zyxer> Yes, that "new" (I bought it today) has COM- and Serial-port
15:51 -!- asarch [~asarch@2806:10ae:7:194b:e2e1:e176:8b18:fc87] has joined #openbsd
15:52 < zyxer> and I need a COM to Enthernet adapter to be able to get internet
15:52 < zyxer> I think the hardware is limited to a few kb per second, fastest interface is telefone thing at 98kB/s or something among those lines
15:53 < zyxer> Yes, I am gonna try to install OpenBleSseD on that old 16mb RAM champion that somehow survived to this day
15:53 < zyxer> The battery dead, need to replace the cells
15:54 < zyxer> And unironically one of the best if not the best keyboards I ever tried
15:54 < zyxer> Feels like mechanical things
15:54 -!- acidfoo [~acidfoo@modemcable137.64-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
15:54 < zyxer> but doesn't make too horrific noise 
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15:57 < vortexx> this is with pf disabled from a host behind the firewall to the firewall running on the APU6: [  5]   0.00-10.00  sec   514 MBytes   431 Mbits/sec   36             sender
15:58 < vortexx> [  5]   0.00-9.95   sec   513 MBytes   432 Mbits/sec                  receiver
15:58 < vortexx> with pf enabled: [  5]   0.00-10.00  sec   471 MBytes   395 Mbits/sec   42             sender
15:58 < vortexx> [  5]   0.00-9.95   sec   470 MBytes   396 Mbits/sec                  receiver
15:58 < vortexx> on FreeBSD it went from 700Mbps to 300
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15:59 < martian67> yep thats pretty reasonable for apu2 hardware
15:59 -!- NicknameJohn [~NicknameJ@187-27-144-200.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
16:00 < sibiria> i (finally) got hardware that can saturate 1 gbit with openbsd only half a year ago or so
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16:00 < sibiria> but admittedly i was happy in 500 mbps land the past 15 years
16:00 < martian67> yeah apu is pretty anemic unfortunately
16:01 < martian67> i really wanna a ryzen based refresh
16:01 < sibiria> well, tough luck... :)
16:01 < oldlaptop> it sounds like pcengines is just *done*
16:01 < sibiria> r.i.p PCengines
16:01 < sibiria> there are a few affordable CHINESE (ALERT ALERT) miniPCs with low-power ryzen
16:01 < vortexx> yeah Mr Dornier has decided to move on to other things unfortunately
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16:02 < sibiria> martian67: https://www.bee-link.com/  check these out
16:02 < vortexx> martian67: from the firmware dev page, he was looking at an arm cpu of some kind
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16:02 < martian67> oldlaptop: yeah chip shortages absolutely screwed them
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16:04 < vortexx> yeah Covid really destroyed their ability to supply product
16:04 < vortexx> the shortages were so bad on the nics
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16:04 < sibiria> because he insisted on intel instead of realtek, which would also have allowed him 2.5 gbps AND higher margins
16:05 < oldlaptop> I see crabs: https://pcengines.ch/apu1d.htm
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16:07 < oldlaptop> I get more the impression that the apu2 design was just, well, for intel NICs, and it's not the kind of thing where you can just swap it out for a different vendor's chip
16:08 < sibiria> of course not. it's what he went with all those years ago, and he never considered a change
16:08 < oldlaptop> (those crabs sure don't look like the same footprint to me)
16:08 < sibiria> same goes for the AMD T40E
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16:08 < oldlaptop> https://pcengines.ch/leadtime.htm "I will certainly look at alternatives like Intel i225, or Realtek 1G or 2.5G NICs - but this will take months for design, prototyping, testing, EMI certification and component lead time."
16:08 < sibiria> he'd need to revise the board in either way
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16:09 < sibiria> T40E being decommissioned by AMD was also more nails in the coffin
16:10 < sibiria> realistically he could've revised the board already years ago when low-power ryzens showed up
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16:10 < sibiria> but perhaps he ultimately really didn't want to keep running the business
16:10 < oldlaptop> I don't think they've ever done GPU-fused-off ryzens at all
16:11 < sibiria> me neither. but that's not really a showstopper
16:11 < oldlaptop> (which is what's on apu/apu2, AIUI - the chips have an iGPU on the die, but it's fused off)
16:12 < oldlaptop> and furthermore as far as I can tell AMD's very heavily targeted embedded ryzen at applications using those GPUs
16:13 < oldlaptop> "hey, look at these boards from our fine partners with four DP outputs!" etc.
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16:14 < sibiria> 12-15 watt ryzens (gpu included in power envelope) showed up already 5 years ago
16:14 < zyxer> sibiria: Just make a firewall router that blocks all chinese IPs without any other filter and you're good to go 
16:15 < sibiria> i think there's even one that can be configured down to 8 watts
16:15 < zyxer> Also
16:15 < zyxer> Technically it wasn't covid that messed up the supply chain, it was literally illegal to work in parts of the supply chain, covid doesn't make laws, politicians do
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16:16 < oldlaptop> that particular ontological discussion belongs in some other channel
16:16 < zyxer> Yes
16:17 < vortexx> sibiria: those beeline devices have not one but two fans... I need fanless because the router is less than 4m away from where I sleep
16:17 < zyxer> The open alternative rn is power8 chips
16:17 < zyxer> So, if I need to upgrade I will have to spend 4k or so
16:17 < sibiria> vortexx: don't the smallest ryzen ones have just one fan?
16:18 < vortexx> even one is too many
16:18 < sibiria> well that depends on the size and rpm of it :)
16:18 < vortexx> true
16:18 < oldlaptop> IBM POWER does not go into products in remotely the same category as apu2
16:18 < sibiria> most 120mm fans are quiet from 2 meters away
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16:18 < sibiria> but i share your sentiment about silent computers being underappreciated
16:18 < vortexx> and yes you can swap out the fans for something from a company that has a reputation for making quiet fans but still...
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16:19 < vortexx> I can keep on managing with 400Mbps on a gigabit line for now, as I have since 2016
16:19 < sibiria> i'm very happy with my almost quiet odroid h3
16:19 < zyxer> Yes that is true. But if I want open source firmware and ISA then Power8 is my only choice, most other chips are less open than the APU
16:20 < oldlaptop> (POWER8 is two generations ago now too, although I don't believe there are any non-"call us for pricing" options for POWER10 as yet)
16:20 < zyxer> Power8 is more open, but no other is equally open afaik
16:20 < zyxer> power8 outperforms threadripper
16:20 < zyxer> And the APUs are way older
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16:21 < oldlaptop> POWER8 is "two generations ago" with with reference to POWER (or "Power Architecture"? Whatever IBM want everyone calling it this week) alone, in the sense that POWER9 and POWER10 exist.
16:22 < zyxer> Yes
16:22 < vortexx> sibiria: odroid H3 looks nice
16:22 < vortexx> thanks
16:22 < oldlaptop> further, POWER9 is the one for which machines with "open-source firmware" are available to J. Random Individual who only wants one of them, not POWER8..
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16:23 < oldlaptop> as for the idea that talos/blackbird are somehow the only option in that market, there are at least some commercial-production RISC-V SBCs on the market now.
16:23 < zyxer> Raptors sell open source firmware hardware for power8
16:23 < oldlaptop> (much closer to apu2)
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16:24 < zyxer> and the ISA is open source, as well as the analogue to intel ME/AMD PSP
16:24 < oldlaptop> (No, they sell it for POWER9. The POWER8 project never got off the ground, AIUI.)
16:24 < zyxer> wat
16:24 < zyxer> really? 
16:24 < zyxer> Am I one step behind?
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16:24 < zyxer> ba-dumm psssss
16:25 < oldlaptop> PPC64 is also not the only "open-source" ISA. (RISC-V, obviously. SPARC is "open-source" in the same sense, although it appears to be doomed.)
16:25 < zyxer> Yea but they are weak
16:25 < zyxer> 10mb/s is too slow even for my household
16:25 < oldlaptop> this is a very strange objection to bring to a conversation about apu2
16:26 < oldlaptop> (which will route WAY more than 10mbit/s)
16:26 < zyxer> What? I didn't object? I was I guess complaining about the lack of equally or more open source hardware/routers as the APU is
16:26 < zyxer> APUs*
16:26 < zayd> is it normal that pkg_add takes forever to do anything?
16:26 < zyxer> On old weak hardware yea, 
16:26 < oldlaptop> zayd: Not literally speaking, but it's not very fast.
16:27 < zyxer> the quirk checking takes time on my old hardware
16:27 < zyxer> Like, takes time then it says "Updating quirks" 
16:27 < zyxer> and all go kinda smooth
16:27 < zyxer> As smooth as you expect 20+ year old hardware to go
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16:39 < vortexx> zayd: pkg_add will be sped up in 7.4, which is just around the corner
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17:09 < avemestr> sibiria: The odroid H3(+) devices looks interesting. About 5/6 of the CPU performance of the CPU on this board: https://www.supermicro.com/en/products/system/1U/5019/SYS-5019D-4C-FN8TP.cfm - but only 1/6 the power usage.
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17:37 < gnucode> ok I am doing something really silly again...
17:38 < gnucode> doas mount /dev/sd1i /mnt/usb  
17:38 < gnucode> mount_ffs: /dev/sd1i on /mnt/usb: Invalid argument  
17:38 < gnucode> it should probably be something like mount -t vfat /dev/sd1i /mnt/usb
17:38 < gnucode> let me try that...
17:39 < avemestr> gnucode: Apropos: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169593371418144&w=2
17:39 < gnucode> wait a second
17:39 < gnucode> thanks.
17:40 < gnucode> maybe don't tell me how to fix it just yet...
17:40 < gnucode> I am thinking out loud...
17:40 < gnucode> doas mount -t msdos /dev/sd1i /mnt/usb  
17:40 < gnucode> mount_msdos: /dev/sd1i on /mnt/usb: not an MSDOS filesystem  
17:41 < gnucode> I believe I created my burned an linux installation image on my usb stick like this: dd if=guix.iso of=/dev/sdb1c .
17:42 < gnucode> so I think there is some other command....
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17:45 < gnucode> nevermind...I'm booting another distro where I know how to do this.  no hard feeling.
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17:50 < deltahotel> how to know which drivers fw_update has installed during system installation and firstboot
17:51 < avemestr> fw_update -i
17:51 -!- Iketani [~Iketani@46.23.90.48] has quit [Quit: Bye]
17:52 < avemestr> Wait, that doesn't work. Is the manpage wrong?
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17:54 < avemestr> So, -i was removed in 7.1 it seems.
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18:11 < deltahotel> no logfile somewhere?
18:18 < vortexx> deltahotel: dmesg -s should tell you
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18:29 < deltahotel> Ok
18:30 < tetra_> --port option in openrsync is not making any effect and it still connects to port 22, am I missing something? openrsync -rpgoD --del --port=31415 --rsync-path=/usr/bin/openrsync /home/foo/backupdir foo@example.com:~
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18:40 < tetra_> Using -e "ssh -p 31415" did the trick
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18:48 < sibiria> avemestr: yeah it's pretty snappy for being a Celeron-based sub-nanoITX board that draws not even 10 watts when idling
18:49 < sibiria> mine eats like 8 watts when idle, with NVMe + 2.5" HDD. about 11-12 watts when i fully load all cores
18:50 < sibiria> can be cooled passively. i have a fan on mine just to ventilate air a little
18:50 < sibiria> and openbsd runs great on it
18:52 < vortexx> sibiria: did you look at the 4x2.5Gbit port card for your odroid H3?
18:53 < sibiria> vortexx: i did but i opted out since i already have a 6-port switch i'm using. but eventually i will be getting that board and migrate from NVMe to eMMC
18:54 < sibiria> metavoid (who shows up here regularly) has the H3 as well, and the switch board
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18:54 < sibiria> he said it works well with openbsd
18:54 < vortexx> sibiria: why move from NVMe ?
18:54 < sibiria> the switch board needs the PCIe port
18:54 < vortexx> oh this card works as a switch, not a network card for the H3?
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18:54 < vortexx> ok
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18:55 < sibiria> no it's really 4 discrete NICs. i just say "switch" since that's likely what most people will use it for in one way or the other
18:55 < sibiria> managed switch
18:56 < sibiria> so i'll be getting it, too, just so i can run it as a managed switch and keep everything in one neat and tiny case, and put my little netgear SoHo switch away
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18:57 < vortexx> that extra card suits my current setup pretty well and I could migrate my lan to 2.5Gbps with it
18:57 < vortexx> really interesting options with this board, thanks a lot for the suggestion
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19:02 < sibiria> i can't confirm that it truly manages to push 2.5 gbps with openbsd since i have only tested it in loopback fashion, but in such a test it hits 1 gbit simultaneously on both in and out
19:02 < sibiria> (i.e. connecting one NIC directly to the other)
19:03 < sibiria> which i presume should be able to count as openbsd shoveling ~2 gbit/s
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19:03 < vortexx> yeah it'd be good enough
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19:15 < mischief> sibiria: vortexx i have the odroid-h2+ with the net card
19:15 < mischief> the emmc is dog slow. i'd probably avoid it. i use SATA instead.
19:16 < sibiria> i don't mind slow eMMC. it will be sufficient for the system part. i use the 2x sata for two 2TB drives
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19:17 < sibiria> do you get decent speeds with the net card on h2+?
19:17 < mischief> i get about 1.6Gbit/s in iperf3
19:17 < sibiria> not bad at all
19:18 < mischief> i can saturate my wan downlink (~1Gbit/s) with pf nat
19:18 < mischief> not sure what prevents getting higher speeds on the 2.5GBit interfaces
19:18 < mischief> maybe the driver is just not optimized
19:19 < mischief> (its rge(4))
19:19 < sibiria> when i did the loopback test on my h3 (connecting NIC 1 to NIC 2 and putting them in different rdomains) i saturated at *exactly* 941 mbit/s which is the maximum of GbE
19:19 < mischief> sibiria: actually i'm not sure if that speed is through the onboard ports or on the net card
19:20 < sibiria> not sure if it was a fluke or openbsd/rge(4) somehow internally treats the interface as GbE despite recognizing it as 2.5 GbE
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19:23 < mischief> odd
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19:28 < vortexx> mischief: thanks, yeah I'd just use the eMMC for the system, no need for extra storage, I have a server for that
19:28 < vortexx> no need for VMM or anything like that either
19:28 < vortexx> mh then again I do need disk space for nginx proxy cache 
19:28 < vortexx> could put in enough ram to just use MFS for that though
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19:33 < sibiria> luckily it has two DIMM slots
19:34 < sibiria> pretty capable board
19:35 < vortexx> yep
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20:31 < lcubed>  /save
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21:06 < kn> //3
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21:41 < amnesiac> Hi. How to rename/access file which has cyrillic in name on fat via openbsd ?
21:42 < vortexx> can't do that on the terminal iirc, you'll need X or a remote session
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21:48 < thrig> eh? why would X or a remote session be needed?
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21:59 < vortexx> thrig: can't display the characters?
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22:00 < thrig> irrelevant?
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22:07 < n6bsd> ?>,</,,
22:07 < n6bsd> '
22:07 < n6bsd> '
22:07 < n6bsd> Sorry something fell on my kebord
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22:26 < oldlaptop> n6bsd: So not "nice kitty"? :)
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22:30 < ox1eef_> Anyone know how close 7.4 is ?
22:30 < thrig> october/novemberish, usually
22:30 < ox1eef_> Ty
22:30 < oldlaptop> The usual date would have been November 1 back in CD-pressing days
22:31 < oldlaptop> since CD sets went away the main departure seems to have been that it is sometimes a bit early
22:31 < ox1eef_> I had the impression it was very close, within days or a week but I may have misunderstood.
22:32 < oldlaptop> (usually early, in fact)
22:32 < thrig> stuff gets locked down so things can stabilize and bug fixes get done
22:32 < ox1eef_> Makes sense.
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22:32 < oldlaptop> We have been at the point for a few days where -current/snapshots believe they are 7.4-release, so there's that
22:33 < oldlaptop> at some point 7.4-release will actually be tagged; that's usually some weeks before the formal release day
22:33 < ox1eef_> Ty
22:33 < oldlaptop> (but it is still the point at which the source code for 7.4-release is finalized and at which -current moves on to what will be 7.5 next spring)
22:34 < oldlaptop> In fact...
22:35 < ox1eef_> I started to prefer snapshots / -current because the packages for it appear to be updated much more frequently than -stable. Last I checked -stable was still running chromium v111.
22:36 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #openbsd to: Unofficial OpenBSD support channel; please try to stay on topic | It's that time of year; snapshots will need pkg_add -D snap/sysupgrade -s |  https://www.openbsd.org | FAQ: https://www.openbsd.org/faq | https://man.openbsd.org/ | Can't speak? https://libera.chat/guides/registration | 3+ line pastes? https://clbin.com | Political discussions and other incendiary topics are unwelcome.
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22:37 < oldlaptop> -stable will generally not get package updates except for security patches, much like debian stable
22:37 < oldlaptop> (similarly the base system itself will only get security patches)
22:38 < ox1eef_> I'm not sure chromium for -stable had a patch for that libwebp thing. Seems too old for that to be the case, unless a one-off patch was applied and I didn't notice.
22:38 < thrig> bad operating systems such as chrome may need a lot of patches
22:38 < oldlaptop> -current is, by some definition, always the "best" version of OpenBSD, but running snapshots (or following -current some other way) has some complications
22:39 < oldlaptop> (like pkg_add -D snap)
22:39 < ox1eef_> Generally snapshots work well for me. Only had an issue a couple of times.
22:41 < oldlaptop> There are contexts where a machine reeeeeeally shouldn't be guinea-pigging -current (or patches that aren't even committed yet, which will occasionally be in snapshots)
22:42 < oldlaptop> but of course *some* machines have to be doing that, somewhere, and more is better :)
22:44 < ox1eef_> I have found the closer to release the more stable snapshots are, where as the further from release the more issues I had.
22:44 < oldlaptop> a week before release certainly isn't the opportune time to make time_t wider
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22:52 < vortexx> firefox certainly gets updated on a regular basis in -stable
22:53 < vortexx> I compiled v118 last night
22:55 < vortexx> tor-browser gets plenty of updates too, but it's true I rarely see chromium (or iridium, for that matter, but that upstream barely updates every six months...) get updates when sync'ing up before throwing dpb at the task
22:56 < thrig> at least there are updates for firefox now, previously it was quit firefox, start a build overnight, and hope it didn't fail when you get back the next day
22:57 < vortexx> yeah
22:57 < vortexx> firefox takes ~2h on a 2019 Xeon with 8 threads for that VM plus a whopping 20G of RAM for it to link
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22:58 < vortexx> thanks rust
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--- Log closed Sun Oct 01 00:00:15 2023