--- Log opened Mon Oct 02 00:00:16 2023
00:02 < ssm_> errantcain: you are gone, but I can tell your ghost that www/badwolf is pretty cool, and easy to hack
00:06 < ssm_> youtube broke their api again and I had to backport yt-dlp from -current
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01:00 < ssm_> any ported citation generators (APA, MLA, etc) on openbsd (needed for college)? If not, is there a good citation generator that isn't ad-infested rate-limited garbage (aka not the chegg one)?
01:03 < oldlaptop> surely there's something in https://openports.pl/path/print/texlive/texmf,-full
01:05 < oldlaptop> https://ctan.org/ would be the place to search that
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01:07  * oldlaptop couldn't say offhand which of the five pertinent results at https://ctan.org/search?phrase=mla (as an example) is most likely to be what you want, though bibtex sure seems to be the path most travelled
01:08 < oldlaptop> (MLA style in particular is simple enough that I'd question the utility of a "generator", but *shrug*)
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01:12 < ssm_> yeah, I could just write apa by hand
01:13 < ssm_> or I could write a simple project in C
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05:22 < zwr> I wrote a program to test xonly out of curiosity: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/11a9fb1d. Output: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/4b1f5a0f
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05:26 < fro> cool
05:26 < fro> how's this different from the one from the maling list?
05:30 < zwr> I dunno, I didn't read the list. I just wrote one to witness what I heard in the CanSecWest talk 
05:32 < fro> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=167502036014661&w=2
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05:39 < zwr> mine is not nearly as advanced, that's the difference. 
05:40 < fro> well it looks good either way
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08:39 < Ew0> Hi, quick query -- is there a reason why usermod can't remove users from a group? I've tried reading around the manpages/mailing lists but I can't find a correct way to do so. Is it safe to just remove them from /etc/group? Thanks
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08:43 < rnkn> Ew0: -S will set a list of new secondary groups
08:43 < dennis> and remove the user from all other secondary groups
08:44 < Ew0> aah, I did just try that anyways, thanks
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08:46 < Ew0> Lovely, worked with a relog. Much appreciated
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09:22 < prahou> hello, is the following a feature or a bug: laptop with 1 external monitor, both are on, `xrandr --listmonitors` lists both, `xrandr --listactivemonitors` lists both (same output), disabling either monitor and running the same two commands only list the active monitor. per xrandr(1), --listmonitors should list anything that's connected despite being on or off. 
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09:27 < tetra_> what is the best practice regarding icmp6 in OpenBSD? Not sure if I should allow all types or just the ones specified in RFC 4890 Section 4.3. I currently allow these ones: 1 2 3 4 128 129 133 134 135 136 137 144 145 146 147
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09:28 < kodcode> ×/join #xterm
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09:39 < IcePic> tetra_: The threat of allowing all is low. Not zero, but very very low
09:39 < tetra_> thanks
09:39 < zyxer> :::1
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12:50 < z3bra> hey everyone! Is there a way to "add" HTTP return codes with httpd(8) ?
12:50 < z3bra> I'd like to return a HTTP 425 (too early), but adding "block return 425" in the code yields "return code not supported"
12:51 < z3bra> I don't wanna switch to nginx/apache solely for that…
12:53 < xse> https://github.com/reyk/httpd/blob/master/httpd/http.h#L181C2-L181C22 
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12:55 < z3bra> yeah I figured it out, but I was wondering if there was a way to define it from the config, rather than patch/recompile it
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13:01 < xse> doubt it, it's a tls1.3 thing, which given that's supported you might have a shot at getting it upstreamed ? no clue really, the list used in httpd.h is from before tls1.3 existed
13:03 < z3bra> tbh, I needed it just for a "fun" effect so that might not be relevant
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15:38 < orwell> Hi, if i change something in acpi.c, do i have to rebuild base or the kernel? And how do I find out myself next time?
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15:43 < thrig> where does this acpi.c live?
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15:43 < orwell> in /sys/dev/acpi/acpi.c
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15:44 < thrig> kernel buildin' time
15:45 < Lucas6023> really, it depends. For anything changed under /sys/, you need to recompile the kernel. If you then need to consume things from userland, you'll need to build the relevant parts.
15:45 < avemestr> orwell: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html
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15:48 < orwell> ok, thx!
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15:49 < Voyager_MP> pf uses a hostid, how do I get the ID ?
15:49 < Voyager_MP> man hostid, but than hostid does not exist 
15:51 < quinq> sysctl kern.hostid
15:52 < quinq> protip: man -k any=hostid
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15:55 < Voyager_MP> ghostid  000000
15:55 < Voyager_MP> kern.hostid=0
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16:07 < echelon> hey folks
16:09 < echelon> is there a way to interact with pf using any libraries or do you need to call the executables?
16:09 < phy1729> What are you wanting to do?
16:10 < echelon> i want to be able to dynamically update pf rules
16:10 < phy1729> look into anchors
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16:10 < phy1729> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/anchors.html
16:11 < echelon> thanks
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16:12 < echelon> so it does require calling executables (ie, pfctl) from your application? there's no way to invoke some kind of api/lib?
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16:13 < phy1729> you can see man pf for the ioctls, but I think most things shell out
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16:42 < orwell> I just rebuild the kernel as in release(8) described but didn't install, because I want to test the patch on another system. Am I assuming right, that I just have to copy /usr/obj/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP/bsd to /bsd on the other system?
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17:41 < iio7> So, I am running current on a box and have just used sysupgrade to get the latest snapshot. I wanted to update all packages using "pkg_add -u", but none of the mirrors nor the main CDN contain any packages and I get "https://mirror.one.com/pub/OpenBSD/7.4/packages/amd64/: no such dir". What am I overlooking?
17:42 < orwell> `pkg_add -Dsnap -u`
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17:43 < iio7> orwell, thanks!
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17:49 < vortexx> orwell: yes copying your kernel over is the way to do it, you've probably done it by now
17:50 < orwell> vortexx, si, the patch works like a charme :)
17:50 < vortexx> well done
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19:15 < Voyager_MP> is there a good guide on how to build the kernel ?
19:15 < avemestr> Voyager_MP:  https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html
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20:31 < avemestr> OpenBSD videos from EuroBSDCon 2023 is up: https://www.openbsd.org/events.html
20:39 < byteskeptical> noice
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20:59 < ludovicus> coolio
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21:07 < armin> so i have this "Fujitsu FUTRO S700" thin client. it works perfectly with openbsd. literally. even X works absolutely blatantly well. until i start a web browser. i understand that this machine has only 1gb of ram, but what should i do now? try to tweak the system? simply consider this a low-end machine and forget about X? it drives a 2560x1440 display just fine over displayport, it's not exactly fast but 
21:07 < armin> damn close. unless you start a web browser, that is.
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21:08 < armin> i mean you can even run xonotic JUST FINE on that thing, i don't know.
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21:09 < armin> it's actually blatantly fast considering it consumes less than 10 watts of power (yes i measured this). this machine is actually extremely useful.
21:09 < armin> it's just a damn thin client i got for 0$ but i fell in love with it.
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21:10 < armin> i could basically just make this a tiny music player daemon machine (mpd or cmus, or whatever), too.
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21:11 < topcat001> armin: have you tried qutebrowser?
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21:11 < armin> it's challenging to find the right application for this thing, on the one hand it runs xonotic just fine at 2560x1440 (!!!!?????!!!???????) on the other hand running a web browser is so slow it hurts (yes that thing has a slow CPU)
21:11 < armin> topcat001: yes but that's a long time ago, i mean in the first place the problem is executing random JS i believe...
21:13 < armin> i mean yea it's high on GPU and low on CPU, sure, but still, what the damn hell should i do with these things? i got 3 of them and they run perfectly (!) fine with openbsd.
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21:13 < armin> like, seriously fine.
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21:14 < armin> i have absolutely NO complaints here, openbsd ticks ALL the checkmarks i have for some device like this, i had absolutely no problem at all even booting over serial console, stuff just works.
21:15 < ludovicus> the problem is web 
21:15 < armin> exactly.
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21:16 < armin> btw i even installed openbsd on this ryzen 9 workstation i got in front of me, everything just worked except for sndiod, which randomly just closed my audio stream and took about 1-2sec or so to re-open it.
21:17 < armin> but yea there was NO noticeable lag or anything, the system felt 100% smooth and responsive, and if i just play a silent mp3 infinitely in a tmux session everything works.
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21:18 < armin> i don't know what this is, yet, i'm still debugging that issue, no idea if i'll ever get to the root of it, but at least i try.
21:19 < armin> but yes openbsd with dwm on this ryzen 9 with 32gb of ram, it's like, i cannot describe that, it's so butter smooth and responsive it's all i could ask for.
21:22 < thrig> until the next firefox version
21:22 < armin> i also run it on my thinkpad x230 currently and it's a total dream.
21:23 < armin> it's the best i ever had on a thinkpad, hands down.
21:23 < zyxer> I have windows 3 on a thinkpad
21:23 < armin> zyxer: nice <3
21:24 < zyxer> I am not sure 16mb of RAM is enough for OpenBSD
21:24 < armin> it isn't.
21:24 < zyxer> Yea, openBSD is bloat
21:24 < zyxer> ;D
21:24 < armin> i have 1gb of ram in my thin client, it's really really questionable to run X there.
21:24 < zyxer> Wat
21:24 < zyxer> I run X on 320mb of RAM no issue
21:24 < ssm_> armin: are you running gnome or something
21:25 < armin> zyxer: if all you run is simple terminal emulators you're fine, but don't you dare to start firefox.
21:25 < sibiria> it's questionable even without x. on x86-64 there are some processes that will touch swap memory (if available) on 1gb ram
21:25 < armin> ssm_: dwm.
21:25 < zyxer> I mean 320 total size, it eats around 100mbRAM
21:25 < sibiria> relinking the kernel is one of them
21:25 < ssm_> more proof suckless can't program
21:25 < armin> ssm_: oh i highly disagree. :)
21:25 < zyxer> Well I mean
21:25 < zyxer> They tell you to finish programming it 
21:25 < zyxer> Badum Tssss
21:26 < armin> they do. and yes i do write bugs, all the time. hands down.
21:26 < armin> but i obviously tried against other WMs, yes.
21:26 < zyxer> Cwm
21:26 < armin> cwm is great.
21:26 < zyxer> I used to be a dwm user, then I drank the cool aid
21:27 < armin> zyxer: which is?
21:27 < zyxer> Now I use cwm like the cool kids
21:27 < armin> eww.
21:27 < ssm_> I like cwm, but it's buggy with picom for me (window borders become transparent for certain applications, notably firefox)
21:27 < zyxer> I thought you said it's great;D
21:27 < zyxer> Transparency is bloat
21:27 < armin> well whatever floats your boat i guess, other WMs i keep recommending are i3 and bspwm.
21:27 < topcat001> 1 GB is way more than enough for X. It's just that the entire web software ecosystem is wasteful, a trend inherited from other mainstream operating systems.
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21:28 < armin> topcat001: precisely this. <3
21:28 < ssm_> zyxer: I'm trying to make it NOT transparent
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21:28 < zyxer> So disable picom
21:28 < ssm_> I blame gtk, usually the correct thing to blame for something like this
21:28 < zyxer> Delete
21:28 < zyxer> yes that too
21:28 < armin> ssm_: well in my dwm configuration literally everything including terminal background is not 100% opaque, except for client windows, yes, but meh i'm a questionable person, you wouldn't want to use my X config.
21:29 < zyxer> Bloat, I run on 70mb ram
21:29 < zyxer> With x 
21:29 < ssm_> "have you met my X" -armin probably
21:29 < zyxer> I sleep now
21:29 < armin> zyxer: good night <3
21:29  * sibiria 158mb, but 910 mb cached, so that's an indication
21:29 < topcat001> with picom I find that the gl backend tends to be more reliable, as opposed to the default xrender.
21:30 < armin> ssm_: well it's a bit on the edge, if you don't run complex stuff, these things are a dream to work with, like if all you do is open terminal emulators for example.
21:30 < ssm_> topcat001: both glx and xrender backends have the transparency problem in cwm
21:30 < ssm_> like does no one else use firefox and picom with cwm
21:30 < armin> ssm_: hehe
21:30 < thrig> I start firefox, sometimes
21:30 < topcat001> it's probably cwm doing something picom does not like. I have no issues with fvwm2/3 or i3
21:31 < topcat001> I use picom all the time.
21:31 < thrig> if it crashes or misbehaves, eh
21:31 < ssm_> topcat001: I use jwm, which is a derivative of fvwm2, and I think is what inspired cwm
21:31 < armin> topcat001: i don't know how to put this correctly, but you could try dwm, yes.
21:32 < armin> topcat001: i don't know how to put this, but yes dwm was an eye-opener for me.
21:33 < yj2> I don't care for dmw's 'stacking' bullshit
21:33 < armin> yj2: well then i3 or hlwm might be for you.
21:33 < yj2> I'm not in the market
21:33 < armin> me neither. :)
21:34 < ssm_> evilwm inspired cwm, not jwm. jwm sure works a lot like cwm to not be related at all
21:34 < topcat001> yeah I NEED tiling :)
21:34 < armin> topcat001: well dwm/i3/awesome/hlwm has you covered.
21:35 < armin> topcat001: and that's the 4 i would recommend, in order of appearance, yah.
21:36 < yj2> i3 king of tiling
21:36 < armin> i3 is nice yea. been using that for almost a decade.
21:36 < armin> yj2: but yup i got from i3 to dwm over the last months.
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21:37 < topcat001> I try other stuff from time to time.
21:37 < armin> yea.
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21:39 < armin> i mean there weren't many WMs that were able to catch my attention like this. blackbox, fluxbox, wmaker, fvwm2, e16, i3, dwm (in order of appearance).
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21:40 < ssm_> window labelling is probably my favorite feature of cwm, so that I don't just have xterm xterm xterm xterm & xterm to search my windows by
21:41 < armin> that problem continues inside of the terminal with finding the right tmux session and so on... ;-)
21:41 < ssm_> I guess I can do xterm -name foo, but who thinks to do that
21:43 < armin> ssm_: PS1="\[\e]0;\u@\h: \w\a\]$PS1"
21:43 < armin> ssm_: irgendwie sowas hier?
21:43 < armin> ssm_: keine ahnung, aber du kannst den title von dem terminal halt setzen, ja
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21:45 < armin> ssm_: oh damn brain issues, my brain keeps switching languages, i apologize.
21:45 < armin> ssm_: but yeah you can set the window title if you like in whatever terminal application you use.
21:46 < ssm_> interesting, so it works even on running terminals
21:46 < armin> correct.
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21:48 < topcat001> In i3 I also mark my windows vi style; extremely handy
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21:53 < armin> topcat001: whatever floats your boat i guess? i remember the docs were pretty helpful on nested modifiers.
21:53 < armin> topcat001: feel free to layer the sh*t out of it.
21:54 < topcat001> great to have choices; one cannot always eat rice :D
21:54 < armin> the whole idea of nesting in terms of keyboard use is something that has gone wrong in graphical user interfaces.
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21:55 < armin> people just got used to clicking things and that's about it.
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21:56 < armin> we could well all use 20 years computers if this web bloat thing did never happen.
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21:56 < armin> unfortunately, it did.
21:57 < topcat001> almost all of my machines are handed down from work because windows 10 is to slow on them
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21:57 < armin> topcat001: you know, the whole idea of re-using trash hardware is something that's rooted in openbsd.
21:58 < topcat001> I run a variety of OSs on metal on them, Open/Net/FreeBSD and Linux, and even l4 microkernel in the form of sculptOS.
21:58 < armin> topcat001: well that's cool, all i care about is old used physical hardware that doesn't consume much energy that runs some form of bsd.
21:58 < topcat001> All of them are lightning fast (especially Linux, FreeBSD, and l4) on these machines.
21:59 < armin> topcat001: well the only advise i can give you is that if you want a lightning fast linux then go alpine.
21:59 < topcat001> It's really a win/win situation, with no win(10) :D
21:59 < armin> i strive way more towards the bsd edge here, linux just annoys me.
22:00 < armin> it's fine, i can deal with it, but i'll very likely get really drunk using that.
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22:00 < armin> i'm currently in front of some extremely bastardized manjaro.
22:01 < topcat001> I don't have any issues with it really. However the point is that the two mainstream OSs are absolutely insane in terms of wastefulness.
22:01 < avemestr> But how fast will my application written in an interpreted language in a container on a virtual machine that runs on top of a hypervisor on the bare metal run if I use old HW?
22:01 < armin> i think it tracks unstable currently, it has nothing to do with manjaro as a distribution anymore, but my god does it run great.
22:01 < topcat001> Even macOS is very bad in that respect.
22:01 < armin> macOS is absolutely excellent, though, it's proprietary, which i don't like.
22:02 < armin> but as an OS? my god yea it's good.
22:02 < topcat001> I have a few macs, including a 16" M1 MBP and yes it is FAR from perfect.
22:02 < topcat001> the OS I mean. The hardware is excellent.
22:02 < armin> i have a 13" mbp m1 retina and it's close to perfect.
22:02 < armin> the os also, you can always open a terminal and fix your issue.
22:03 < armin> it works.
22:03 < topcat001> let's not get into that _ and let's not assume I don't know what I am talking about
22:03 < armin> it's wonderful if you have a hacker background and get one of these expensive machines from work.
22:03 < armin> topcat001: but why? you do!
22:04 < armin> topcat001: i'm sorry if i was upsetting you!
22:04 < armin> sorry! <3
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22:04 < topcat001> No I mean we have gone really offtopic :) No not upset all good.
22:04 < armin> ok <3
22:04 < armin> let's move to openbsd-social :)
22:04 < avemestr> #openbsd-social
22:04 < avemestr> :-)
22:04 < armin> yup :)
22:05 < topcat001> haha maybe later, I need to go AFK, and thank you for the convo.
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22:36 < vortexx> armin: why not use the thin client as a thin client? Run a browser on another machine but export the display to the thin client?
22:37 < topcat001> lynx or w3m can cork with many sites also. I often use them.
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23:10 < ssm_> any daemons to reduce blue light at night?
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23:13 < xse> redshift is packaged iirc, you can check out sct too, not a deamon but lightweight https://flak.tedunangst.com/post/sct-set-color-temperature
23:14 < ssm_> cool
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23:16 < tommyrot> https://github.com/faf0/sct
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23:31 < thrig> what sort of acceleration is necessary for the laptop to have redshift?
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23:37 < ssm_> thrig: would it not just use X11 gamma settings?
23:37 < ssm_> like with xrandr --gamma r:g:b
23:37 < ssm_> redshift is exactly what I want, thanks for the recommendation
23:41 < errantcain> hello, I have a question on httpd and wanted to see if any of you guys could help me. I have a simple php web app that does the routing in index.php. I added the root to the config `root "/htdocs/public/"` and set the `fastcgi socket "/run/php-fpm.sock"` for `*.php`. 
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23:42 < errantcain> the thing is, it is loading my index page correctly, like it goes thru the routing and shows the php page that it should
23:42 < errantcain> but when I try to access other route, it gives me a httpd 404, and I think it is mixing the php routing and the httpd one 
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23:43 < errantcain> so my question boils down to: Is there a way to tell httpd to do all the routing thru my index.php file/ 
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23:52 < errantcain> oooh nvm I think I figured it out :)
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 03 00:00:18 2023