--- Log opened Tue Oct 03 00:00:18 2023
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00:32 < armin> vortexx: yes perfectly possible.
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00:44 < armin> <- the weird dude that deploys 15 lines of html at a maximum
00:44 < thrig> without line wrapping that could be a lot
00:44 < armin> eww.
00:45 < armin> i disagree with dynamic websites and JS to begin with...
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00:54 < welcome> HELO
00:54 < welcome> I am trying to get xscreensaver
00:54 < welcome> working
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00:58 < welcome> I get ... xscreensaver-settings:   Failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes ...
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01:02 < welcome> Has anyone else had this error, and if so, what can I do to fix it?
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01:12 < vortexx> welcome: someone just did in the last 7 days on misc@
01:12 < vortexx> let me find it
01:13 < welcome> o
01:13 < welcome> cool
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01:13 < vortexx> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169444922913936&w=2 <-- this
01:13 < vortexx> follow the thread
01:14 < welcome> yes
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01:29 < welcome> ;/me is reading marc
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01:41 < welcome> seems they implement a workaround
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03:28 < armin> i tried a week ago and remember i had issues and switched to xlock/i3lock instead
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05:00 < echelon> can a process in jail reach a port on the host system?
05:02 < jrmu> yes although openbsd doesn't use jails AFAIK
05:02 < phy1729> openbsd doesn't have jails
05:02 < jrmu> a chrooted process can connect to any port on any system
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05:04 < dennis> if you control the code, you could use pledge(2) to drop any network privileges, if that's what you want
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05:08 < echelon> how about ipc?
05:09 < echelon> through jail/chroot whatever
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05:23 < dennis> chroot really only deals with what files you have access to on the filesystem
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05:24 < dennis> and pf can block based on the user owning the process
05:25 < dennis> other than that you have pledge, where the executable drops privileges when executed
05:26 < dennis> there's also unveil, which can limit what files the executable can access
05:26 < echelon> i see
05:28 < dennis> pledge and unveil are functions you put into your executable though, not something you can apply to some unknown executable you're not sure you trust
05:28 < IcePic> then again, with rdomains you can have a process (or a set of processes) be in a different network namespace, which would also prevent connections to processes on the same host in other rdomains
05:29 < dennis> oh, yea, forgot about those
05:29 < echelon> is that the same as netns?
05:29 < dennis> there's also VMs. If you have an exec you're not sure you trust, a VM (or even a different machine) is probably the safest bet.
05:29 < IcePic> echelon: in some sense yes
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06:34 < polyex> can doas be configured to use ssh key instead of password?
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06:42 < markand> I love the fact that OpenBSD's community/devs don't really care about dualboot but ironically is the simplest OS to put as dualboot
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06:43 < markand> no kilometers of grub, bootx64.efi that knows exactly what do to <3 
06:43 < zelest> polyex, no
06:44 < polyex> why not?
06:44 < polyex> then the user account can have no pw at all
06:44 < polyex> ssh key based login, doas, and ssh
06:45 < inz> doas doesn't have a method to challenge your key.
06:45 < zelest> just throw the ssh-key in /root/.ssh/ ?
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06:46 < markand> polyex, if we add feature like that one day someone will come up asking for LDAP support as well, doas isn't mean to replace auth mechanism
06:46 < polyex> so hook doas into auth mechanism
06:47 < zelest> :D
06:47 < markand> usually auth is implemented using PAM or similar so that tools don't have to reimplement everything themselves, but PAM is complicated as well 
06:47 < zelest> polyex, just install sudo?
06:48 < polyex> sudo can challenge an ssh key?
06:48 < zelest> no idea, I don't use sudo
06:48 < inz> Just ssh in as root :)
06:48 < zelest> ^
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06:49 < markand> I think he rebooted on windows install media
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06:49 < zelest> the fact that doas is originally written by tedu, my guess is that bloat is the last thing that will be added to it. :)
06:50 < markand> and we like doas for that :)
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06:50 < markand> even on my every linux machine I replace sudo with (open)doas (and alias sudo=doas for 15 years of habits)
06:51 < zelest> 15 years?
06:51 < zelest> doas is 8 years old :P
06:51 < markand> I mean habits of using sudo
06:53 < dennis> I went with `ln -s /usr/bin/doas /usr/local/bin/sudo`
06:53 < dennis> So any scripts that use sudo (in a simple way) don't break
06:54 < markand> unless they use sudo's options :P 
06:54 < inz> Has anyone ever used them?
06:55 < dennis> yea. That's why I added "(in a simple way)" :D
06:55 < markand> ask-pass or something like that maybe (I must say in my era of dwm use I used to pimp sudo to get a dmenu prompt when running X)
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06:55 < markand> very fun times
06:56 < dennis> So far I think I've only ever run into this problem once, so it actually works pretty well
06:56 < dennis> Far better than not having sudo in path at least (IME)
06:56 < inz> The only flag to sudo I've ever used is -u, which doas actually does support, so no b0rkage there.
06:57 < zelest> my favorite is when people run "sudo su" or "doas su" :D
06:58 < markand> ah yes sudo -u is handy sometimes yes
06:58 < dennis> It's not uncommon to change permissions of setuid-programs so normal users can't run them
06:58 < dennis> Then the only way to use su is to run doas su
06:58 < markand> but doas has -u as well too
06:59 < dennis> yea, but that only runs a command as that user
06:59 < markand> sudo has -g also, not sure if that has various usecases 
07:00 < dennis> you use su to get a shell as the user you want
07:00 < dennis> sure you could run "doas -u user ksh"
07:01 < dennis> but su is muscle memory :p
07:01 < lts> I think he was just confused about what doas is and thought it was usable remotely as-is, instead of "ssh user@server.tld doas foo"
07:02 < rnkn> doesn't su require the target user's password, vs doas which requires the current user password?
07:02 < dennis> rnkn: yup.
07:03 < dennis> I can totally see the usecase for doas being able to challenge the ssh-key you logged in with. Even more so in an enterprise environment. It means you could drop passwords on user accounts, and still be sure no-one can use your account to elevate privileges. Also, logging in as root might be very much frowned upon, since it makes it way harder to audit who might have done what
07:04 < dennis> (I'm not arguing it should be implemented though, just saying I can see that it might be useful)
07:04 < zelest> yeah
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07:05 < markand> sure it's handy, but it should be implemented in PAM rather than every authentication tool (su, login, doas, etc) and OpenBSD doesn't use PAM (thanksfully) 
07:05 < dennis> I know I've implemented hacky solutions earlier to track/log the key that was used to log into root. It's a pain.
07:06 < dennis> markand: I very much agree
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07:27 < dlg> ive tried to add a bsdauth module for ssh key auth before
07:27 < armin> a lot of people got sudo in muscle memory instead.
07:27 < dlg> alias sudo=doas
07:28 < dlg> alias screen=tmux
07:28  * dlg old
07:29 < zelest> and a tmux.conf that changes the action key from B to A? :)
07:29 < lts> I have a .tmux.conf which sets keyboard shortcuts to screen shortc... yup
07:29 < dlg> of course
07:29 < zelest> :D
07:29 < armin> unbind C-b
07:29 < armin> set -g prefix ^A
07:29 < markand> I did too, but went away because ^A is used in many serial programs (picocom, etc)
07:29 < armin> bind a send-prefix
07:29 < armin> zelest: gotcha. :D
07:29 < zelest> I did the same when I first switched to tmux.. then I decided to re-train my muscle memory :)
07:29 < dlg> after trying that i dont think ssh key based auth in bsdauth makes sense
07:29 < markand> but ^B is used to go backwards in pager. there are no universal great option :D
07:30 < armin> ^B is simply a horror to reach with your hands when touch-typing.
07:30 < zelest> just press the alt+command key? ;)
07:30 < dlg> making doas specifically do key auth could work, but it's a lot of code
07:30  * zelest usually finds su enough
07:30 < zelest> those big pesky enterprice envs go devop themselfs :P
07:31 < zelest> can go*
07:31 < armin> i got so used to ls having --group-directories-first that i actually wrote a patch for openbsd ls to include something similar. i'm 100% i'll just get put off when i'm sending this to tech@ though.
07:31 < IcePic> obsd doesn't do long opts unless it can't be helped
07:32 < armin> https://uno.m2m.pm/patch.txt
07:32 < armin> i implemented is a short opt.
07:32 < armin> (yes man-page and usage still missing in that patch!)
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07:33 < armin> but heck at least you're able to sort directories before files with that and don't end up with that polluted chaos that bsd ls shows.
07:33  * zelest uses -p but the man-page now makes me question if I should use -F instead :o
07:33 < armin> zelest: i have ls aliased to 'ls --group-directories-first -F' all the time.
07:35 < armin> i'd be fine with that getting -Q or -Y or whatever, i just want that feature in ls.
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07:36 < armin> that's the single one reason i keep installing coreutils on bsd's since 10 years and it bothers me.
07:37 < dennis> Was just about to say the same ^^
07:37 < dennis> I really like --group-directories-first
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07:39 < armin> dennis: i'm simply not professional enough to send this to tech@ i believe, i've never posted something there, they will just tell me to gtfo.
07:40 < dennis> You could always ask for tips in misc first
07:40 < armin> good pointer.
07:40 < zelest> alias ls=ls -F | grep '/' && ls -1 | grep -v '/' | sort
07:40 < zelest> :D
07:41 < zelest> err
07:42 < armin> zelest: ah yes wrapping ls, been there, done that. :D
07:42 < zelest> alias ls=ls -F | grep '/' && ls -F | grep -v '/' | sort
07:42 < zelest> :D
07:42 < armin> zelest: quite frankly, that's one of the better solutions i've seen.
07:42 < dennis> that doesn't work really well when you want other options tho. so you need more than one wrapper
07:43 < dennis> alias ls=gls is shorter :p
07:43 < armin> hehe
07:43 < armin> ls='gls --color=auto -F --group-directories-first'
07:43 < armin> that's the ony i use since more than a decade now i think.
07:44 < zelest> hehe
07:44  * zelest is happy without --group-directories-first
07:44 < armin> i mean it shouldn't be like this, i don't want to install a comlete GNU userland just to list things.
07:44 < dennis> I never felt a need for -F with --color=auto and --group-directories-first
07:45 < dennis> I think I use alias ls='gls --color=auto --group-directories-first --human-readable --literal'
07:45 < armin> zelest: well that's ok, but would the presence hurt you as much as the missing hurt me? :)
07:45 < armin> dennis: oh that's a good one.
07:46 < zelest> i rarely ls in the sense that "oh, what's in this directory?"
07:46 < zelest> either i know what files i want to access, or I list stuff based on size or last modified
07:46 < zelest> ls -altr
07:46 < zelest> or du -sh | sort -h
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07:46 < Windshield> come
07:46 < zelest> go
07:46 < Windshield> argh
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07:47 < dennis> (:
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07:47 < zelest> err, that's 'du -sh * | sort -h' btw
07:48 < armin> zelest: well of course you can come up with workarounds to tackle this, but that shouldn't be necessary in any way.
07:48 < welcome> I am having trouble with firefox. I think th eproblem is groups related. I have reinstalled firefox with pkg_add, and it runs fine, but
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07:49 < welcome> it won't browse, complains of not being able to find certain directories such as ~/.config
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07:49 < zelest> welcome, that's by design :)
07:50 < zelest> welcome, read the /usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readmes/firefox and look in /etc/firefox
07:50 < welcome> ok
07:50 < welcome> thankyou
07:50 < zelest> (it's to prevent evil hax0rs from reading your ~/.ssh if your browser when pwnt
07:50 < zelest> )
07:50 < zelest> when/get
07:50 < zelest> what's up with my spelling today? :( I don't think I'm properly awake yet
07:52 < armin> i love how zelest prefixes all replies to welcome with "welcome,", making the whole conversation even more weird. :D
07:52 < zelest> haha
07:53 < zelest> speaking of firefox.. I regret running the 119 beta, bumping my profile.. now I can't revert back to 118 :(
07:53 < dennis> should have replied with "you're welcome!" when welcome said thankyou as well
07:53 < dennis> missed opportunity!
07:54 < armin> hahahaha
07:54 < zelest> !!
07:54 < zelest> see, I'm too tired for thius
07:54 < zelest> ...
07:54 < zelest> this*
07:55 < dennis> I hear coffee fixes morning-gruf 
07:55 < armin> i just FOUND sugar so i can finally have my morning coffee!
07:55 < zelest> I've had both coffee and redbull so far
07:55 < zelest> and sugar :)
07:55 < rnkn> I've had my evening coffee, which was probably a mistake
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07:58 < armin> but yea i actually made myself a separate mail account and subscribed to all the mailing lists so i become comfortable with them and can post patches in some way. i'm still learning, though.
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08:14 < welcome> ok,
08:14 < welcome> I read over the pkg-readme for firefox, and I had a look in /etc/firefox
08:16 < welcome> THe error I get is 
08:16 < welcome> [Parent 77704, IPC I/O Parent] WARNING: process 36457 exited on signal 6: file /build/tmp/pobj/firefox-118.0.1/firefox-118.0.1/ipc/chromium/src/base/process_util_posix.cc:315
08:16 < welcome> the tabs are crashing
08:16 < welcome> and I don't know why
08:19 < zelest> Hmms, does running dmesg say anything?
08:20 < welcome> lots of pledge reports
08:20 < welcome> after the usual dmesg
08:21 < welcome> they are coming from firefox
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08:29 < zelest> hmms.. that sounds weird.. :o
08:33 < fengshaun> is it possible to debug which fastcgi params httpd is sending?
08:33 < fengshaun> I'm trying to modify a few params, but it seems the uwsgi server on the other end is not picking up the modified params
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09:22 < op2> fengshaun: recompile httpd with -DDEBUG=3, then run it in the foreground with ./obj/httpd -dvvv
09:23 < op2> then the fastcgi params are the log lines prefixed with "fcgi_add_param"
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12:55 < Voyager_MP> set ukccmd enable vnd     # what does that do ?
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14:02 < pardis> depends on where you input it
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16:38 < avemestr> Wow, 5 CVEs covered in one patch.
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16:41 < cws6969> Why the XFCE desktop needs to rely on GLADE
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16:54 < Foxy_> /2/2
16:55 < jmcunx> cws6969: A better question for the xfce people.  I did a duckduckgo search for you :) Seems it is needed for building
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18:05 < mp4> i'm running latest -current, i did "doas rcctl stop pflogd" but after some time got "pflogd(killed)", pflog0 interface is still presented - is it supposed to be this way?
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18:08 < IcePic> use "ifconfig pflog0 destroy" if you want it gone
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18:12 < dayid> pflogd = process; pflog0 = interface
18:13 < mp4> my question was about (killed) - usually when i stop a daemon, it prints (ok)
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18:20 < lts> Your question was about plfog0 interface still being presented :-) 
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18:20 < lts> *pflog0
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18:29 < mp4> i'll rephrase it - is it normal for 'rcctl stop pflogd' to print pflogd(killed) and not destroying pflogd0
18:30 < sibiria> at least the rc file doesn't do any destroying
18:31 < sibiria> it just creates and ups the interface
18:32 < mp4> and this:
18:32 < mp4> core:~$ doas rcctl stop pflogd
18:32 < mp4> pflogd(killed)
18:32 < mp4> core:~$ ps axu | grep pflog
18:32 < mp4> _pflogd  56111  0.0  0.0   688  1584 ??  Spc     9:31PM    0:00.00 pflogd: [running] -s 160 -i pflog0 -f /var/log/pflog (pflogd)
18:32 < mp4> it even doesn't kill the process
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18:35 < sibiria> sorry, no idea. i almost never made use of pflogd
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18:38 < bountyht> Well if it doesn't stop it seems fishy
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18:46 < hrw> https://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2023/10/03/testing-bsd-on-sbsa-reference-platform/ 
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19:44 < fengshaun> op2, thanks! will do!
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21:09 < avemestr> hrw: Nice!
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21:27 < rjc> hrw: Started with “download OpenBSD” page and found out that there is no installation ISO for aarch64 architecture. Not good.
21:27 < rjc> why not good?
21:27 < rjc> you're not going to boot of a cd, are you?
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21:31 < fro> what
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21:32 < sibiria> use install image, on USB memory
21:34 < babouille> because, obviously, there an no acpi-based aarch64 plaforms, everone knows that...
21:35 < babouille> ah, yes, I know! all the people who know them are "the stupidest people on this planet".
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21:38 < brynet> huh?
21:38 < fro> yeah i'm still not following this
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21:45 < rjc> i guess i should have wrapped it in double quotes - i was quoting hrw from his blog post
21:46 < rjc> follow the link he sent and you'll get it
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21:47 < fro> well
21:47 < fro> you could just you know
21:47 < fro> not reply to random stuff froma  blog randomly in the channel
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21:48 < fro> you can also whois people to see if they are idle or not
21:48 < fro> or msg them privately
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21:49 < brynet> nothing wrong with commenting on a link or article that was shared in this channel.
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21:49 < brynet> my "huh" was in reply to babouille, not rjc.
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21:49 < fro> mine was to both
21:50 < fro> didn't see this link
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21:50 < fro> point being that replying to something several hours later makes no sense
21:51 < fro> and/or not checking to see if someone is still active as well
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21:51 < brynet> and they might not have join or part messages on and didn't notice.
21:52 < rjc> fro: not my fault you hadn't seen the link - probably best not to say anything then
21:52 < fro> it still didnt make sense either way
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21:53 < brynet> A lot of people get confused by the boot media, not using hybrid images. We don't support EFI boot on .ISO media, so there's only .img for USB/SD/CF etc. Which absolutely boots on machines with ACPI firmware, which the article is about.
21:53 < rjc> as to "several hour earlier" - that was three *lines*
21:54 < fro> it's not 3 lines for everyone in the channel
21:54 < fro> that's not how this works
21:55 < brynet> rjc: just ignore them.
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23:10 < cws6969> but in the devuan os , The XFCE desktop does not need to rely on GLADE
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23:43 < xse> cws6969: don't know don't use xfce but that might just be something you get 'cause the package(s) choose to include optional dependencies at some point
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--- Log closed Wed Oct 04 00:00:19 2023