--- Log opened Wed Oct 04 00:00:19 2023 00:00 -!- matusfi [~user@nat-88-212-42-111.antik.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:03 -!- adip [~adip@c132-78.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07 -!- yella [regg@2607:fb91:1dc9:4a2:df:e337:a287:2811] has joined #openbsd 00:07 -!- yella [regg@2607:fb91:1dc9:4a2:df:e337:a287:2811] has quit [Changing host] 00:07 -!- yella [regg@user/yella] has joined #openbsd 00:11 -!- zxrom [~zxrom@mm-80-2-212-37.vitebsk.dynamic.pppoe.byfly.by] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12 -!- zxrom [~zxrom@mm-80-2-212-37.vitebsk.dynamic.pppoe.byfly.by] has joined #openbsd 00:12 -!- jacobk [~quassel@utdpat241106.utdallas.edu] has joined #openbsd 00:12 -!- tribaal_ [~tribaal@ubuntu/member/tribaal] has quit [Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in] 00:13 -!- bradd [~quassel@user/bradd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:13 -!- lurks [chatter@user/lurks] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:13 -!- bradd [~quassel@user/bradd] has joined #openbsd 00:14 -!- hussein1 [~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hussein1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:14 -!- tribaal [~tribaal@ubuntu/member/tribaal] has joined #openbsd 00:15 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd 00:16 -!- hussein1 [~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hussein1] has joined #openbsd 00:22 -!- jacobk [~quassel@utdpat241106.utdallas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:27 -!- n6bsd [~n6bsd@user/n6bsd] has joined #openbsd 00:28 -!- ajr [uid609314@user/ajr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:30 -!- ripdog [~ripdog@user/ripdog] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30 -!- lurks [~lurks@user/lurks] has joined #openbsd 00:34 -!- gchound [~gchound@2601:280:c381:9f40:da3a:ddff:fe43:a2e6] has joined #openbsd 00:34 -!- gchound [~gchound@2601:280:c381:9f40:da3a:ddff:fe43:a2e6] has quit [Changing host] 00:34 -!- gchound [~gchound@user/gchound] has joined #openbsd 00:44 -!- BobSlacker [~BobSlacke@user/BobSlacker] has joined #openbsd 00:46 -!- dsrt^ [~cd@76.145.193.217] has joined #openbsd 01:11 -!- MuXtraCrdit [~MuXtraCrd@bras-base-otwaon230qw-grc-26-142-113-119-154.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openbsd 01:13 -!- Minall [~Minall@user/Minall] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 01:16 -!- MuXtraCrdit [~MuXtraCrd@bras-base-otwaon230qw-grc-26-142-113-119-154.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [K-Lined] 01:17 -!- acidfoo [~acidfoo@modemcable137.64-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:39 < echelon> is there a way to add an expiration time for a pf rule? 01:42 < echelon> ah https://man.openbsd.org/pf.conf#once 01:43 < thrig> or use an anchor and then fiddle with the rule(s) 01:43 < echelon> so if it's a persistent connection, like ssh, will it stay alive as long as the client doesn't disconnect? 01:45 < thrig> state often keeps things alive independent of the rules 01:50 -!- cws6969 [~cws6969@2408:8256:588b:6b0a:c543:173f:d87d:f0ef] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56 -!- matusfi [~user@nat-88-212-42-111.antik.sk] has joined #openbsd 02:01 -!- gchound [~gchound@user/gchound] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03 -!- el [el@libera/staff/el] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03 -!- el [el@libera/staff/el] has joined #openbsd 02:04 -!- matusfi [~user@nat-88-212-42-111.antik.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:18 -!- adig [~adig@185.53.199.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18 -!- adi_ [~adig@185.53.199.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21 -!- cuiltb^ [~cd@76.145.193.217] has joined #openbsd 02:27 -!- monolith [~rm@p5de941f3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27 -!- matusfi [~user@nat-88-212-42-111.antik.sk] has joined #openbsd 02:28 -!- srfsh_ [~srfsh@user/srfsh] has joined #openbsd 02:28 -!- srfsh [~srfsh@user/srfsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:32 -!- matusfi [~user@nat-88-212-42-111.antik.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:39 -!- chrisz [qolwtwo2ia@62.144.46.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:40 -!- AlaskanEmily [~AlaskanEm@user/alaskanemily] has joined #openbsd 02:41 -!- chrisz [dtjeodvjx4@62.144.38.247] has joined #openbsd 02:41 -!- Bit_MCP [~Bit_MCP@99-22-255-91.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:45 < echelon> do expired pf rules eventually get purged? 02:45 < echelon> or is there a risk of them building up 02:49 -!- Mete- [~Mete-@2804:da8:f7a0:f3e:43c2:a5ca:da81:f77e] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:50 < byteskeptical> echelon: do you mean states? 02:50 < echelon> no, pf rules that are marked with `once` when they're created 02:50 < echelon> so they expire after the first connection attempt 02:50 -!- rurtty [~wwwww@46.235.97.116] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:52 < byteskeptical> unless you in debug mode they are skipped though I guess if you have some mechanism adding one off once rules then yeah they would build up 02:54 < echelon> so if i plan to use some automated mechanism to add temporary rules, i have to do garbage collection of expired rules 02:55 < byteskeptical> yeah if you have a mechanism that is adding you should probably have a mechanism that is removing unused rules as well 02:56 < byteskeptical> I'm not sure at which use levels it starts becoming a performance issue but I imagine your not looking to find out either 02:56 < echelon> i anticipate thousands of connections per day 02:56 < byteskeptical> which should be fairly straight forward if you use something like tags 02:57 < echelon> cool 02:57 < byteskeptical> noice it's a good problem to have 03:14 -!- Leonarbro [~Leo@user/leonarbro] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:23 -!- buq [~buq@user/buq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28 -!- matusfi [~user@nat-88-212-42-111.antik.sk] has joined #openbsd 03:30 -!- BobSlacker [~BobSlacke@user/BobSlacker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32 -!- matusfi [~user@nat-88-212-42-111.antik.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:45 -!- shiranaihito_ [~shiranaih@2403:6200:88a0:dde3:7482:c980:e13:43e] has joined #openbsd 03:48 -!- emigrant [~emigrant@user-5-173-21-6.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:50 -!- emigrant [~emigrant@83.175.149.110.koba.pl] has joined #openbsd 03:52 -!- jambove [~jambove@51B6E5B2.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openbsd 03:53 -!- jambove_ [~jambove@51B6E256.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04 -!- Leopold [~quassel@gateway/tor-sasl/leopold] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04 -!- hussein1 [~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hussein1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04 -!- srfsh_ [~srfsh@user/srfsh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04 -!- gxt_ [~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04 -!- blop_ [~blop@user/blop] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04 -!- nedko [~nedko@gateway/tor-sasl/nedko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04 -!- chiselfuse [~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04 -!- echelon [~echelon@gateway/tor-sasl/steerpike] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05 -!- srfsh [~srfsh@user/srfsh] has joined #openbsd 04:05 -!- chiselfuse [~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse] has joined #openbsd 04:05 -!- Leopold [~quassel@23.137.249.65] has joined #openbsd 04:05 -!- echelon [~echelon@gateway/tor-sasl/steerpike] has joined #openbsd 04:05 -!- gxt_ [~gxt@gateway/tor-sasl/gxt] has joined #openbsd 04:05 -!- hussein1 [~weechat@gateway/tor-sasl/hussein1] has joined #openbsd 04:05 -!- nedko [~nedko@gateway/tor-sasl/nedko] has joined #openbsd 04:06 -!- chumphries [~christoff@user/chumphries] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:07 -!- chumphries [~christoff@user/chumphries] has joined #openbsd 04:08 -!- blop_ [~blop@user/blop] has joined #openbsd 04:08 -!- shiranaihito_ [~shiranaih@2403:6200:88a0:dde3:7482:c980:e13:43e] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 04:17 -!- deltahotel [~deltahote@user/deltahotel] has joined #openbsd 04:22 -!- buq [~buq@user/buq] has joined #openbsd 04:26 -!- kroovy [~libera@62.27.251.4] has joined #openbsd 04:43 -!- shazaum [~Thunderbi@user/shazaum] has quit [Quit: shazaum] 04:49 -!- sysfu [~sysfu@140.82.60.138] has quit [Quit: connection reset by purr] 04:50 -!- sysfu [~sysfu@140.82.60.138] has joined #openbsd 04:56 -!- yella [regg@user/yella] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56 -!- yella [regg@2607:fb90:c9e1:910b:e1c:c055:3c3a:e7e9] has joined #openbsd 04:56 -!- yella [regg@2607:fb90:c9e1:910b:e1c:c055:3c3a:e7e9] has quit [Changing host] 04:56 -!- yella [regg@user/yella] has joined #openbsd 05:10 -!- toxic063 [~toxic0@82.66.203.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10 -!- grobi [~grobi@user/grobi] has quit [Quit: ᗧ•··ᗣ·•·♝·eat·the·rich·♞·ᗤ•ᗣᗣᗣᗧ•] 05:12 -!- toxic063 [~toxic0@82.66.203.96] has joined #openbsd 05:24 -!- jacobk [~quassel@64.189.201.150] has joined #openbsd 05:26 -!- loganaden [~logan@196.1.0.28] has joined #openbsd 05:27 < loganaden> quick question: https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20230724224011. Can we infer that any tls lib shouldn't rely on avx-based optimizations ? 05:30 -!- cns [vapid@user/cns] has quit [] 05:35 -!- ikarso [uid475540@id-475540.tinside.irccloud.com] has joined #openbsd 05:36 -!- dastain [~dastain@81.4.102.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:37 -!- horrad [~horrad@217.91.26.253] has joined #openbsd 05:37 -!- deltahotel [~deltahote@user/deltahotel] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:40 -!- deltahotel [~deltahote@user/deltahotel] has joined #openbsd 05:41 -!- wraith [~wraith@user/wraith] has joined #openbsd 05:42 < wraith> Hello everyone. I am excited for the upcoming Raspberry Pi 5. Since I'd love to see OpenBSD running on it I wonder if I can donate a kit to a developer. And if so, how? 05:45 -!- cns_ [vapid@2a01:4f9:c011:4a34::1] has joined #openbsd 05:46 -!- dastain [~dastain@81.4.102.12] has joined #openbsd 05:46 -!- Lucas6023 [~Lucas6023@gateway/tor-sasl/lucas6023] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46 -!- bob_x1 [~bob_x@user/bob-x1/x-8934932] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47 -!- bob_x1 [~bob_x@user/bob-x1/x-8934932] has joined #openbsd 05:47 -!- Lucas6023 [~Lucas6023@gateway/tor-sasl/lucas6023] has joined #openbsd 05:51 -!- AlaskanEmily [~AlaskanEm@user/alaskanemily] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57 -!- sdk_ [~x@irc.uugrn.org] has quit [Quit: gopher://codevoid.de] 06:07 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has joined #openbsd 06:10 -!- shann [~quassel@178.33.252.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:14 -!- shann [~quassel@178.33.252.31] has joined #openbsd 06:16 -!- martian67 [~martian67@user/martian67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16 -!- martian67 [~martian67@user/martian67] has joined #openbsd 06:17 -!- loganaden [~logan@196.1.0.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:18 -!- struchu [~struchu@staticline-31-183-52-164.toya.net.pl] has joined #openbsd 06:18 -!- shann [~quassel@178.33.252.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:20 -!- GreaseMonkey [greaser@user/greasemonkey] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:21 -!- sdk_ [~x@irc.uugrn.org] has joined #openbsd 06:21 -!- shann [~quassel@178.33.252.31] has joined #openbsd 06:22 -!- welcome [~Windshiel@1.125.107.118] has joined #openbsd 06:23 < welcome> HELO 06:23 < zelest> morning 06:24 < renaud> EHLO 06:24 < welcome> I have this idea going at the moment 06:25 < zelest> Those are scary 06:25 < welcome> if writing a real simplified graphics library thing 06:25 < welcome> *if/of 06:25 < welcome> like openGL but made easy 06:26 < welcome> how does one write to graphics memory directly in openbsd? 06:27 < welcome> I dunno 06:27 -!- gbe [~gbe@ext.ttyv0.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27 < welcome> my browser dun work, yo? 06:27 -!- lavaball [~Melissa@31.204.155.215] has joined #openbsd 06:30 -!- gbe [~gbe@ext.ttyv0.de] has joined #openbsd 06:31 -!- monolith [~rm@p5de94b33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openbsd 06:31 -!- wraith [~wraith@user/wraith] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:31 -!- Jaywalker [~Jaywalker@209.33.126.194] has joined #openbsd 06:33 -!- Jaywalker_ [~Jaywalker@209.33.126.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:33 < welcome> something like (1) ask gfx card for a page of memory; (2) set a colour; (3) paint pixels, or with some simple tringle functions define points of a triangle and paint them the selected colour; 06:34 < welcome> The idea being to make graphics programming an accessable resource 06:34 < welcome> I looked at openGL... it seems rather complicated 06:35 < welcome> of course I am no extroadinairre at programming 06:35 -!- Guest7221 [~Guest7221@user/nex8192] has joined #openbsd 06:35 -!- norayr [~norayr@37.252.78.253] has joined #openbsd 06:36 -!- norayr [~norayr@37.252.78.253] has left #openbsd [] 06:44 -!- echelon [~echelon@gateway/tor-sasl/steerpike] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:45 < welcome> arg 06:45 < welcome> accessible resource 06:45 -!- welcome [~Windshiel@1.125.107.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45 -!- Windshield [~Windshiel@1.125.107.118] has joined #openbsd 06:45 -!- Windshield is now known as welcome 06:47 < hrw> rjc, brynet: bootable ISO is readonly media always. Each time I boot it system will be the same. If I boot diskimage then there is a chance that some writes happen and next boot will behave other way 06:49 -!- loganaden [~logan@196.1.0.28] has joined #openbsd 06:49 < IcePic> welcome: perhaps start with SDL(2) and use that for painting? 06:51 < welcome> I like SDL as an idea/implementation but I was thinking of trying myself an even more elementary language design, for fun and perhaps self-taught learning 06:51 < welcome> I will have a look again 06:51 < welcome> when I get my browser working 06:52 < welcome> I just think I need a new project 06:52 < welcome> and something i can work on bit by bit 06:52 < welcome> like sourceforge stuff is oftentimes 06:52 < welcome> for a year or two 06:53 -!- loganaden [~logan@196.1.0.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:54 < welcome> I mean on openbsd of cource (in keeping with the topic) 06:54 -!- mlw [~mlw@41.223.181.80] has joined #openbsd 06:54 < welcome> *course 06:57 -!- echelon [~echelon@gateway/tor-sasl/steerpike] has joined #openbsd 07:04 < welcome> Is it normal for firefox to not work after a pkg_add? I mean, does one have to configure it now what with all the unveil stuff etc. 07:05 < welcome> Or is my computer a mess? 07:08 -!- LW [~LW@i5E866B2E.versanet.de] has joined #openbsd 07:09 -!- LW [~LW@i5E866B2E.versanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 07:12 < Lucas6023> Firefox works out of the box, in my experience 07:13 < Lucas6023> can you describe how it "not work"? 07:13 < welcome> yersh, that's wht I thought too 07:13 < welcome> latley I have no been able to browse however, and I don't know why 07:14 < welcome> I am about to delete .mozilla and .config and uninstall/reinstall it to see if that fies the problem 07:14 < IcePic> welcome: there is a "danger" in aiming for a too low level, where you can spend a year on learning exactly how an amd rx7509 card exposes graphics memory to the OS, then any other gfx card generation or brand will be totally different and most of the work is "for nothing" 07:15 < IcePic> it was a very long time ago when gfx cards stopped having a simple 2d memory range which match 1:1 with what pixels you see on your screen 07:15 < Lucas6023> welcome: before doing that, can you describe how it doesn't work? (or tell me to read the backlog if it's there) 07:15 < welcome> I was hoping to utiilise some kind of HAL approach to a existing graphics standard 07:15 < welcome> sure 07:16 < welcome> Lucas6023, 07:16 < welcome> when I attempt to browse, when the browser launches 07:16 -!- andinus [~andinus@2603:c021:4004:d000:b8c5:a26c:87b8:67db] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:17 -!- andinus [~andinus@141.148.193.223] has joined #openbsd 07:18 -!- Nixkernal [~Nixkernal@119.4.193.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 07:18 < welcome> the browser does nothing (!) but yields errors like "Cannot set application as default for extension (xhtml): Can?t create user MIME configuration folder /home/welcome/.config: No such file or directory 07:18 < welcome> and [Parent 9897, IPC I/O Parent] WARNING: process 61243 exited on signal 6: file /build/tmp/pobj/firefox-118.0.1/firefox-118.0.1/ipc/chromium/src/base/process_util_posix.cc:315 07:19 < Lucas6023> and are you using the stock /etc/firefox/{pledge,unveil}* ? 07:20 < Lucas6023> are you running firefox as "welcome" user? 07:20 < welcome> yes 07:21 < welcome> yes 07:21 < Lucas6023> it does sound a bit like pledge killing your firefox. Does /var/log/messages says something? 07:22 < welcome> yes, that shows a lot of messages. They refer to firefox[92523]: pledge "proc", syscall 195 07:22 < welcome> firefox[65364]: pledge "proc", syscall 195 07:22 < welcome> firefox[1415]: pledge "proc", syscall 195 07:22 < welcome> etc 07:23 < Lucas6023> well, I'm running the same firefox without issues. Have you tried creating a new profile? 07:23 < welcome> basically a lot of processes seem to be being exited 07:23 < Lucas6023> if the new profile works fine, then I'd aim for extensions in your current profile 07:24 < welcome> I will try with a new profile, new .config and new .mozilla 07:24 < welcome> stand by.... 07:25 < Lucas6023> you don't need a new .mozilla, because the new profile will be in a different directory. You don't need a new .config, as things other than Firefox read and write stuff from there. 07:26 < Lucas6023> if the new profile doesn't work, then I'd like to take a look at the output of `diff -ru /usr/local/lib/firefox/browser/defaults/preferences/ /etc/firefox/` 07:26 -!- djhankb [~djhankb@208.113.164.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26 < welcome> ok, let's ty this and then I will get the diff 07:27 -!- djhankb [~djhankb@208.113.164.68] has joined #openbsd 07:27 -!- adip [~adip@c129-119.icpnet.pl] has joined #openbsd 07:28 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:28 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has joined #openbsd 07:28 < welcome> output is "Only in /usr/local/lib/firefox/browser/defaults/preferences: all-openbsd.js" 07:29 -!- acidfoo [~acidfoo@modemcable137.64-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openbsd 07:30 -!- Nixkernal [~Nixkernal@119.4.193.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #openbsd 07:31 -!- Nixkernal [~Nixkernal@119.4.193.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 07:31 -!- Nixkernal [~Nixkernal@119.4.193.178.dynamic.wline.res.cust.swisscom.ch] has joined #openbsd 07:34 -!- acidfoo [~acidfoo@modemcable137.64-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:35 -!- aaro [aaro@user/aaro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:35 < welcome> ewll it still does the same thing- tabs crash before showing any content 07:35 < welcome> *well 07:40 -!- b50d [~b50d@62.96.54.30] has joined #openbsd 07:45 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:45 -!- netrik182 [netrik182@bsdforall.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:46 -!- jrmu [jrmu@jrmu.bsdforall.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has joined #openbsd 07:50 -!- edthix [~Thunderbi@175.142.43.237] has joined #openbsd 07:54 -!- loganaden [~logan@196.1.0.28] has joined #openbsd 07:56 -!- danilogondolfo [~danilogon@37.228.206.65] 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tozhu [~tozhu@210.17.227.86] has quit [Quit: tozhu] 13:56 -!- schalken [~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:56 -!- fspax [~fspax@185.244.48.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:57 -!- con [~con@user/con] has joined #openbsd 13:58 -!- struchu [~struchu@staticline-31-183-52-164.toya.net.pl] has joined #openbsd 14:00 -!- schalken [~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net] has joined #openbsd 14:04 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:05 -!- guest12 [~gnc@78-70-144-104-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openbsd 14:06 -!- tozhu [~tozhu@210.17.227.86] has joined #openbsd 14:07 -!- schalken [~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:08 -!- schalken [~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net] has joined #openbsd 14:09 -!- imega [~coma@89.206.80.49] has joined #openbsd 14:10 -!- feriman [~feriman@user/feriman] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:14 -!- mlw [~mlw@41.223.181.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14 -!- jacobk [~quassel@129.110.242.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:16 -!- schalken [~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:17 -!- schalken [~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net] has joined #openbsd 14:19 -!- gumnos [~gumnos@2600:1702:410:f440:ba70:f4ff:fe1e:1ef2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:20 -!- jacobk [~quassel@64.189.201.150] has joined #openbsd 14:23 -!- struchu [~struchu@staticline-31-183-52-164.toya.net.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4] 14:23 < jmcunx> I accidentially sent an email that will bounce, I disabled smtpd and found the message as /var/spool/smtpd/queue/be/be7ca694/message 14:24 < jmcunx> can I just delete it to stopp it from tring to be sent for the next few days ? 14:24 -!- hrw [~hrw@redhat/hrw] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:24 < jmcunx> tring = trying 14:25 < jmcunx> I want to be sure I do not break anything by doing that :) 14:26 -!- mlw [~mlw@41.223.181.80] has joined #openbsd 14:27 < sibiria> evict it using smtpctl instead 14:28 < sibiria> smtpctl remove ... 14:28 < sibiria> check the man page for details 14:28 < sibiria> it *probably* works to just delete it from the queue, but i don't know if opensmtpd maybe has some internal/cached view of the queue. best to use its dedicated interface for it 14:31 < sibiria> to just delete it from the file system* 14:33 -!- echelon [~echelon@gateway/tor-sasl/steerpike] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33 -!- echelon [~echelon@gateway/tor-sasl/steerpike] has joined #openbsd 14:34 -!- inak [~justme@70-105-74-65.gci.net] has joined #openbsd 14:36 -!- tozhu [~tozhu@210.17.227.86] has quit [Quit: tozhu] 14:37 -!- tozhu [~tozhu@210.17.227.86] has joined #openbsd 14:39 < jmcunx> Thanks, I read smtpd man but missed smtpctl, did not know it existed :) 14:44 -!- broesel [~broesel@gateway/tor-sasl/broesel] has left #openbsd [] 14:45 < jmcunx> all set, thanks 14:52 -!- ikarso [uid475540@id-475540.tinside.irccloud.com] has 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#openbsd 16:31 < sysfu> I'm trying to create a wildcard certificate using acme-client(1) but not seeing any mention of wildcards in the man pages for the app or the acme-client.conf file. 16:32 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32 < sysfu> desired certificate is *.irc.sysfu.net, for use with pounce irc bouncer and calico SNI feature. 16:32 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has joined #openbsd 16:33 -!- Guest7221 [~Guest7221@user/nex8192] has joined #openbsd 16:33 -!- jacobk [~quassel@129.110.242.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34 < sysfu> I'm afraid if I start putting '*' wildcards in the config file things will go sideways fast. I assume '*' is also not allowed in filenames at it gets expanded by the shell. 16:35 < obcecado> afaik acme wildcard certificates are not supported via http01 challenge 16:36 < sysfu> obcecado, Hm, OK. Sounds like if I want a wildcard TLS cert I'll have to sign one the old fashioned way using my domain registrar? 16:37 < IcePic> one can have * in filenames, just is easy to screw up 16:37 < obcecado> it is supported if you use the dns01 challenge 16:37 < IcePic> as for wc certs, it requires you to have dns to prove you own the domain 16:38 < sibiria> * is actually a legitimate 'dn' for x509 certs 16:38 < sibiria> tricky! 16:38 < sysfu> IcePic, Right now I'm managing the DNS via namecheap.com dashboard. 16:39 < sysfu> obcecado, I'll check out the DNS challenge method, thx. 16:39 < IcePic> otherwise one could get some wacky subentry to, say, wacky.google.com and acquire a cert for *.google.com which would allow you to spoof all the services there 16:39 < sibiria> sysfu: you need to use DNS challenge for wildcard certs, at least with let's encrypt. i don't think acme-client can do that yet 16:41 < sysfu> sibiria, Understood. I'll dig around online for some acme shell scripts that support wildcard certs. 16:41 < babouille> i'm using https://github.com/joohoi/acme-dns to automate my cert renewal via dns01 16:41 < sibiria> sysfu: acme.sh 16:42 -!- xet7 [~xet7@user/xet7] has joined #openbsd 16:42 -!- b50d [~b50d@62.96.54.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42 < Lucas6023> sysfu: another option is to evaluate if you truly need a wildcard cert 16:43 < Lucas6023> in my experience, the answer is generally "no" 16:43 < sibiria> prefer discrete certs if you can 16:43 < IcePic> since you can have tons of Subject Alternate Names, wc might not be needed 16:43 < Lucas6023> exactly for those reasons 16:44 < sibiria> wildcard being riskiest. multiple subjaltnames less risky. discrete cert for each fqdn is the best, when feasible 16:44 < Bradipo> acme-client only support http 16:44 < sysfu> Lucas6023, I'm trying to clean up my pounce setup using calico so I can serve each instance on the same port 6697, and use calico SNI for incoming IRC client server connection requests to route to appropriate pounce instance. 16:44 < sysfu> That setup is most easily accomplished with a wildcard cert, because pounce only support TLS. 16:45 < Lucas6023> sibiria: oh, I misunderstood you. I'm all in for a single cert with a bunch of SANSs. 16:45 < Lucas6023> ehm, SANs 16:45 < sysfu> and I don't want to mess with generating a half dozen TLS certs for all the IRC servers I connect to. You need a separate instance of pounce running for each IRC server you want to setup the bouncer for. 16:46 < Bradipo> sysfu: And you don't want multiple names in the SAN? 16:46 < sibiria> the risk with that is that if cert is compromised, so are all the hosts. but that's far less concern than a wildcard cert allowing someone to spawn whatever subdomain they want 16:46 < Lucas6023> but you can use a single cert, can't you? that's what you're goign to get with a wildcard cert anyways 16:47 < Lucas6023> what some of us is suggesting is that you look at the acme-client.conf manpage, for the "alternative names" option 16:47 < sysfu> Lucas6023, no, because each pounce instance will run with it's only 4th level subdomain, e.g. libera.irc.sysfu.net, tilde.irc.sysfu.net etc 16:47 < eea> i use the SAN method perdonally 16:47 < eea> personally 16:48 < Bradipo> sysfu: How often does a new name that you want to handle come into existence? 16:48 < Lucas6023> and you don't want to run `acme-client` when you connect to a new network? 16:48 < Lucas6023> :shrug: 16:48 < sysfu> Bradipo, anytime I want to connect to a new IRC network 16:48 < Lucas6023> then your only option is to use a 3rd party ACME manager 16:49 < vortexx> sysfu: certbot is in packages and that'll do the DNS challenge for a wildcard cert 16:49 < Lucas6023> or to try the dns01 patch 16:49 < sysfu> vortexx, noted, thx. 16:49 < Bradipo> There's a dns01 patch for acme-client? 16:49 < Lucas6023> yes, a year ago or maybe more 16:49 < Lucas6023> I'm looking it up 16:49 < sibiria> acme.sh is just a single isolated ksh-compatible script. it's a very clean solution in that sense 16:49 < Bradipo> Does it just need testers to get it into base? :-) 16:50 < Lucas6023> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=160883000402270&w=2 16:50 -!- polishdub [~polishdub@ip72-208-203-185.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #openbsd 16:50 < Lucas6023> pfff, 2020-12-24 16:50 < Bradipo> Does acme.sh just use curl or some other tool to communicate with servers? 16:50 < Lucas6023> that's almost 2 years ago 16:51 < vortexx> almost 3, Christmas Eve 16:51 < sysfu> vortexx, no man page for certbot in the pkg? 16:52 < sibiria> Bradipo: doesn't use curl. afaik it has no external dependency or expectations of the base system 16:52 < sibiria> or maybe it uses curl OR wget 16:52 < sibiria> whatever it finds 16:53 < Lucas6023> vortexx: indeed. I have some issues accepting it's 2023. It usually solves itself by the end of the year :p 16:53 < sibiria> ah yeah, it uses curl or wget 16:53 < sibiria> should be the only dependency 16:54 < sibiria> i'm pleased with acme.sh. been using it for 4-5 years now 16:54 < Bradipo> As much as I respect and like acme-client, I would prefer to use dns01 challenges and a script that I can control for how the response is published. 16:54 < sibiria> acme.sh will do that. it has pre/post-hooks and whatnot 16:55 < sibiria> can be integrated very well 16:56 < vortexx> Lucas6023: :) 16:56 < vortexx> sysfu: there's examples all over the net on how to use certbot as it's the letsencrypt default tool 16:57 < vortexx> it won't be any different on OpenBSD 16:57 < vortexx> sysfu: I use this: sudo (I'm doing on linux) certbot certonly --server https://acme-v02.api.letsencrypt.org/directory --manual --no-bootstrap --preferred-challenges dns -d *.your.domain 16:58 < vortexx> s/I'm doing/I'm doing this 16:58 < sibiria> can't you run it unprivileged, letting it listen on non-std port and just portforward? 16:58 -!- adip [~adip@c129-119.icpnet.pl] has joined #openbsd 16:59 < sibiria> i do that with acme. i don't like the idea of running those things with superuser privs for no good reason 16:59 < vortexx> in my case it writes to /etc/letsencrypt the certs so needs superuser 16:59 < vortexx> I haven't explored if it can do it as a regular user 16:59 < sibiria> ah. i write to a local location then i have a separate action to install the scripts 16:59 -!- shazaum [~Thunderbi@user/shazaum] has joined #openbsd 17:00 < Bradipo> vortexx: What does --manual do? 17:00 < vortexx> --manual Obtain certificates interactively, or using shell script hooks 17:00 < Bradipo> Oh. I had hoped that it would be to publish the response manually. 17:00 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has joined #openbsd 17:01 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02 -!- buq [~buq@user/buq] has joined #openbsd 17:02 -!- seninha [~seninha@user/seninha] has joined #openbsd 17:02 < sysfu> vortexx, appreciate that example, thx. Will give it a spin and report back. 17:03 < sysfu> vortexx, In my cause, pounce runs as an unprivileged user and I can keep all certs is ~/.config/pounce so I could probably get away with no superuser account. 17:05 -!- con [~con@user/con] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.0.5] 17:05 -!- tozhu [~tozhu@210.17.227.86] has joined #openbsd 17:07 -!- con [~con@user/con] has joined #openbsd 17:10 -!- mindpixel [~tbd@51.155.223.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:11 < vortexx> sysfu: you're welcome 17:11 < Bradipo> Where is acme.sh? 17:11 < Bradipo> Is there a package for it? 17:12 < Bradipo> https://github.com/acmesh-official/acme.sh ? 17:12 -!- jastrom [~jastrom@mailer.nolife.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14 -!- reset [~reset@user/reset] has joined #openbsd 17:14 < vortexx> 7.4-release code has landed on the CVS servers, time to update my builder VM 17:14 < vortexx> in 3 hours when leccy gets cheaper for the night :p 17:15 < avemestr> leccy = electricity? 17:15 < riceandbeans> The real question is what's the new song. 17:15 < bountyht> vortexx: THanks for telling me 17:16 < bountyht> I would never know these things on time since I rarely pay attention to regular channels :-P 17:16 -!- ficonni [~ficonni@91.187.147.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:19 < vortexx> avemestr: yes, Britishism for electricity 17:19 < vortexx> yw bountyht 17:19 < vortexx> I doubt ports tree for 7.4 will be ready though 17:20 < vortexx> it's usually 5-10 days behind 17:20 < vortexx> the only big change for 7.3->7.4 is that softdep is deprecated in /etc/fstab right? 17:21 -!- gumnos [~gumnos@2600:1702:410:f440:ba70:f4ff:fe1e:1ef2] has joined #openbsd 17:22 < sysfu> vortexx, that certbot command appears to have done the trick. I had to manually created the DNS TXT challenge record at registrar, no big deal. Once I figure out the pounce/calico configuration I should be good for three months until I have to renew. 17:23 < vortexx> sysfu: glad it worked for you! 17:23 < riceandbeans> I recommend messing with it sooner rather than later so you can automate it reliably 17:23 < con> sysfu: you could use a DNS challenge plugin, if your DNS provider is available. 17:23 -!- sunwind [~paradox@31.111.34.162] has quit [Quit: Outside Context Problem.] 17:23 < con> That way it can handle the TXT record automagically and renewals still work. 17:24 < avemestr> vortexx: I see a lot of lines with "pf" and "lock" here: https://www.openbsd.org/plus74.html 17:24 < sysfu> con, my setup is a little tricky because web hosting for sysfu.net is handled by neocities. What I'm thinking about doing is delegating DNS authority for irc.sysfu.net to this box, which should allow me to automake the quartly letsencrypt renewals and DNS challenges. 17:24 < con> That should work, yeah. 17:25 < avemestr> vortexx: Leccy is also really expensive in my country between 17 and 21. So expensive, that I consider running some of my gear on UPS daily in that time frame :D 17:25 < vortexx> avemestr: yeah I saw that but hopefully that doesn't mean updating the pf ruleset 17:25 < thrig> at least the ups gets tested 17:26 -!- shiranaihito_ [~shiranaih@2403:6200:88a0:dde3:7482:c980:e13:43e] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:26 < avemestr> vortexx: I think not, but I hope it might result in some performance improvements. 17:26 < avemestr> thrig: What's a backup worth without regular testing? :) 17:26 < vortexx> avemestr: oh wow, we're not at that level yet hear. Mon-Fri it's expensive from 6:00-22:00, Sat 7:00-14:00 and then from 14:00 Sat till Mon it's cheap 17:27 < vortexx> but that's just my town that has it's own power company 17:27 < vortexx> yeah I'm hoping for pf perf improvements all the time :) 17:28 < riceandbeans> Man I need a new UPS, my battery exploded because my place got too hot before I caved and bought an air conditioner 17:28 < vortexx> exploded? Wow 17:28 < Bradipo> avemestr: You running your site on raspberry pi hardware? How can you run stuff on UPS for 4 hours? 17:29 -!- buq [~buq@user/buq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:30 < thrig> "some" of the gear might be very little 17:31 < riceandbeans> vortexx: I mean it wasn't like a hollywood fireball going up, but the thing bowed out the plastic when it popped 17:31 < avemestr> Bradipo: Over-sized UPS or gear with little power consumption? An APU, switch, PoE AP, 200W PSU server doesn't need much battery. 17:32 < Bradipo> Which makes me wonder how much you're saving? :-) 17:32 < avemestr> Not much :-) 17:33 * Bradipo Admits to being unaware of leccy costs in other countries. 17:33 -!- format_c [~format_c@2a02:b98:f181:4094:f550:7488:2d5:5ffa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35 < Bradipo> Looking at my bill, the average cost of leccy is .14 cents per kwh. 17:35 -!- schalken [~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:36 < Bradipo> If I cut out the middle-man taxes, it's closer to .11 per kwh. 17:37 -!- schalken [~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net] has joined #openbsd 17:37 -!- sunwind [~paradox@31.111.34.162] has joined #openbsd 17:39 -!- arch-nemesis [~arch-neme@user/arch-nemesis] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40 -!- arch-nemesis [~arch-neme@user/arch-nemesis] has joined #openbsd 17:40 < avemestr> I'm at .36 US cents on average per kWh on my latest bill. But it fluctuates like crazy. If it is very windy at night we sometimes have negative prices. 17:41 < avemestr> All meters report usage to the electrical company on an hourly basis. 17:42 < Bradipo> Yeah, that's pretty expensive. 17:43 < Bradipo> I wonder if using a generator to run your equipment would be more cost effective. :-) 17:43 < Bradipo> So, 7.4 coming up soon, nice... 17:44 -!- Kruppt [~Kruppt@50.111.222.166] has joined #openbsd 17:44 < avemestr> Last year it hit 83 cents per kWh in advance... That was the year I became familiar with hw.setperf=0 :D 17:44 < sibiria> heh 17:44 < sibiria> obsdfreqd, with strictest thresholds! 17:45 -!- Minall77 [~Minall@user/Minall] has joined #openbsd 17:45 -!- Minall [~Minall@user/Minall] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 17:45 -!- Minall77 [~Minall@user/Minall] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46 -!- Minall [~Minall@user/Minall] has joined #openbsd 17:49 -!- qqq [~qqq@92.43.167.61] has joined #openbsd 17:49 < Bradipo> Hmm, this seems like a potentially significant change: Made sshd_config(5) first-match-wins. 17:51 < vortexx> expensive rate for kw/h in CHF is 29.48 ct and cheap is 20.87 ct (1CHF=1.1USD on average) which expensive but our salaries are quite a bit higher here 17:51 < vortexx> s/which expensive/which is expensive 17:51 < Bradipo> I suppose that would matter too. 17:53 < vortexx> I try to do anything that means updating packages or compiling ports after 10 pm 17:53 < vortexx> or reinstalling an OS 17:55 -!- quiliro [~user@157.100.200.94] has joined #openbsd 17:56 < vortexx> ugh it's going up to 34.65 / 24.97 next year, that's quite the increase 17:56 < vortexx> anyway, enough offtopic 17:58 -!- jacobk [~quassel@129.110.242.224] has joined #openbsd 17:58 -!- deltahote1 [~deltahote@2a01:cb22:867:d100:e551:4878:d453:2ade] has quit [Quit: deltahote1] 17:59 -!- deltahotel [~fr5dh@lfbn-reu-1-16-184.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openbsd 17:59 -!- format_c [~format_c@2a02:b98:f181:4094:f550:7488:2d5:5ffa] has joined #openbsd 18:01 -!- schna [~schna@2a02:908:2056:bfc0:9e01:6355:e2ec:793e] has quit [] 18:01 < Bradipo> I wonder what the intended use of this is: Added a pair of ssh(1) transport protocol messages to implement a ping capability. 18:02 < vortexx> ssh vpn perhaps? 18:02 < vortexx> there's plenty of people using those 18:03 -!- Alhazred [~Alhazred@user/Alhazred] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:04 < Bradipo> Well, I guess I wonder how it's differnt from the {Client,Server}AliveInterval messages. 18:05 < Bradipo> Does it actually expose an interface that can be used from ~C that has been disabled by default? ;-) 18:07 -!- deltahotel [~fr5dh@lfbn-reu-1-16-184.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: nyaa~] 18:08 -!- my [~my@user/my] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:09 < vortexx> I'm no expert on this, I use ssh for ssh, not vpns, I've just been looking at PermitTunnel and that seems to need a hostname.tun entry to work 18:09 -!- format_c [~format_c@2a02:b98:f181:4094:f550:7488:2d5:5ffa] has quit [Quit: format_c] 18:11 < Bradipo> I use SSH for tunnels, but sparingly. 18:11 < thrig> some number of years ago I wrote some code to add random noise over a ssh line 18:12 < Bradipo> Like the new ObscureKeystrokeTiming option? 18:13 -!- user71 [~user71@2001:1530:1010:af61:1e6f:65ff:fe88:557f] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13 -!- user71 [~user71@2001:1530:1010:af61:1e6f:65ff:fe88:557f] has joined #openbsd 18:14 < Bradipo> I wonder though, does the SSH server require support to know to ignore the fake keystrokes? 18:14 < Bradipo> Meaning that the ObscureKeystrokeTiming cannot be used until the server is also upgraded? 18:15 < Bradipo> Or does SSH already have some kind of /dev/null channel that it can use for stuff like this? 18:16 -!- nckx_ [~nckx@libera/staff/owl/nckx] has joined #openbsd 18:17 -!- nckx_ is now known as nckx 18:17 -!- nckx is now known as nckhexen 18:18 -!- shazaum [~Thunderbi@user/shazaum] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18 < IcePic> Bradipo: when ssh client connects it and the sshd gives eachother lists of supported things 18:18 -!- shazaum [~Thunderbi@user/shazaum] has joined #openbsd 18:18 < Bradipo> Right, and is this one of them? 18:18 < IcePic> Bradipo: so if one end doesn't support ObscureKeystrokeTiming then it will not be activated 18:19 < Bradipo> That should arguably be mentioned in the man page so people don't go around having a false sense of "security". 18:20 -!- my [~my@user/my] has joined #openbsd 18:21 -!- sysfu [~sysfu@140.82.60.138] has quit [Quit: connection reset by purr] 18:21 -!- pehaef [~pehaef@user/pehaef] has joined #openbsd 18:21 -!- pehaef [~pehaef@user/pehaef] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23 -!- shazaum [~Thunderbi@user/shazaum] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23 -!- qqq [~qqq@92.43.167.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24 -!- fspax [~fspax@185.244.48.254] has joined #openbsd 18:25 -!- Kruppt [~Kruppt@50.111.222.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26 -!- sysfu [~sysfu@140.82.60.138] has joined #openbsd 18:26 -!- qqq [~qqq@92.43.167.61] has joined #openbsd 18:28 -!- bob_x1 [~bob_x@user/bob-x1/x-8934932] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:32 < elevenkb> i'm a n00b here, what's insecure about ssh tunnels BradPic? 18:32 < elevenkb> * Bradipo sorry. 18:33 < Bradipo> elevenkb: I think you're confusing a few discussions. 18:33 < riceandbeans> The risk of tunnels is allowing someone to port forward 18:34 < Bradipo> I didn't say anything was insecure about SSH tunnels. I said that the documentation for ObscureKeystrokeTiming is misleading because if it requires server support, most people won't be having fake packets. 18:34 < riceandbeans> If you don't care about that, I wouldn't worry about tunnels 18:34 < elevenkb> ok, gtcha Bradipo, riceandbeans. thanks for the clarification. 18:35 -!- bob_x1 [~bob_x@user/bob-x1/x-8934932] has joined #openbsd 18:35 -!- buq [~buq@user/buq] has joined #openbsd 18:37 -!- thrig [~thrig@c-73-225-161-25.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:37 -!- sysfu [~sysfu@140.82.60.138] has quit [Quit: connection reset by purr] 18:37 -!- sysfu [~sysfu@140.82.60.138] has joined #openbsd 18:40 -!- fstd [~fstd@xdsl-89-0-42-192.nc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:40 -!- fstd_ [~fstd@xdsl-87-78-3-240.nc.de] has joined #openbsd 18:41 -!- fstd_ is now known as fstd 18:44 -!- thrig [~thrig@c-73-225-161-25.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openbsd 18:44 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58 < Bradipo> I wonder, if I use SSH tunnelling a lot (not for VPN) wouldn't that also serve as some obfuscation of typing? 18:58 < Bradipo> e.g. if I use -D or even -L and have regular traffic going through those tunnels, that would already obfuscate some of what I'm typing that occurs at the same time, right? 18:58 -!- todi [~todi@p5dca5e79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:00 < zyxer> Bradipo: What? SSH connection is encrypted (if I am not mistaken) no one should see what you type through it. 19:03 -!- mlw [~mlw@41.223.181.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:03 < Bradipo> zyxer: Right, passive traffic analysis. 19:03 < zyxer> Or do you mean the data from SSH destination to the internet? Communication between your device that uses SSH and the SSH endpoint should be encrypted. If you mean that the server then spits out traffic through unencrypted connections then it is unencrypted and you would just need to read the header and content of the packets. 19:04 < Bradipo> This is regarding the new ObscureKeystrokeTiming option. 19:04 < Bradipo> It is encrypted, but passive analysis can still be done based upon timing of keystorkes, etc. 19:04 < thrig> timing of typing with enough data and a clean enough network and to note when echo gets turned off 19:04 < Bradipo> OpenSSH recently added a new option that sends "fake keystrokes" while you're typing. 19:05 < Bradipo> But my question was, if I use enough tunneled traffic (e.g. -D or -L and -R options), would that provide enough "cover" as it wer? 19:05 < Bradipo> s/wer/were/ 19:07 < zyxer> Oh, ok. Well I am definitely not an expert in that area but I would guess tunneling more traffic wouldn't help too much. Outsiders shouldn't be able to see the packets content or headers, but the size of them. So you would need to tunnel probably some text based traffic that looks like typing. Welp. I am kinda guessing here. 19:08 -!- sysfu [~sysfu@140.82.60.138] has quit [Quit: connection reset by purr] 19:08 -!- sysfu [~sysfu@140.82.60.138] has joined #openbsd 19:08 < Bradipo> Fair point. I suppose the the size of packets would be considerably different for keystrokes. 19:08 < zyxer> If you go full tinfoil and worry about AI looking at your traffic then you could probably obfuscate it better by setting up a script that also randomly sends keystrokes through the same tunnel 19:08 < Bradipo> In which case, SSH would have to send huge packets for a single keystroke so the traffic blends in. Probably more efficient to use the new option. :-) 19:08 < zyxer> Or fakes them through that tunnel 19:08 < thrig> I also changed all ssh traffic to either bulk or interactive to make typed harder to tell apart from bulk 19:09 -!- inak [~justme@70-105-74-65.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:09 < Bradipo> As in bulk TCP? 19:09 < zyxer> Damn, I really should read up on those features. 19:10 -!- inak [~justme@70-105-74-65.gci.net] has joined #openbsd 19:16 -!- ikarso [uid475540@id-475540.tinside.irccloud.com] has joined #openbsd 19:17 -!- inak [~justme@70-105-74-65.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:22 -!- Workbench [~quassel@S0106f0f249e003f3.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #openbsd 19:23 -!- inak [~justme@70-105-74-65.gci.net] has joined #openbsd 19:33 -!- jacobk [~quassel@129.110.242.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:34 -!- km [znc@buildfarm.krot.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40 -!- jacobk [~quassel@utdpat241106.utdallas.edu] 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[Quit: Lost terminal] 23:42 -!- Xenguy_ [~Xenguy@user/xenguy] has joined #openbsd 23:43 -!- lep [~lep@94.31.88.133] has joined #openbsd 23:50 -!- lavaball [~Melissa@31.204.155.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] --- Log closed Thu Oct 05 00:00:21 2023