--- Log opened Thu Oct 05 00:00:21 2023
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00:16 < vortexx> 7.4 compiled and packaged. Now for the long wait for 7.4 ports tree to be released :p
00:18 < thrig> you must construct more compilerigs
00:19 < vortexx> I mean ports cvs tree always gets released several days after -release does
00:19 < vortexx> my rig is fast enough for the ~1500 packages I build
00:20 < vortexx> it'll take a day for the non-x11 stuff and a couple of days for the rest
00:21 < vortexx> looks like zabbix is getting bumped to 6.4
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00:57 < vortexx> **** Not adding group _agentx, GID 92 already exists <-- weird, I still had _rtadvd in there for gid 92
00:59 < vortexx> was removed in 6.4... dear oh dear, haven't been doing maintenance properly there. But it's just that VM luckily
01:01 < thrig> that'll be 100 hail theos for you
01:01 < phy1729> sysclean will warn about that now
01:09 < vortexx> thrig: will do
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03:49 < cws6969> My Firefox browser can't download any files, all of which say "Download failed". The folder used for download is permissioned to create modified files. Is it the lack of some dependencies
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03:50 < cws6969> The browser is Firefox, not Firefox-ESR
03:53 < echelon> are you on the internet
03:54 < phy1729> If the folder isn't ~/Downloads you probably need to modify the unveil arguments. See the package readme
03:55 < echelon> openbsd's firefox uses unveil()?
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03:55 < phy1729> yes
03:55 < echelon> neat
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03:56 < echelon> but it pulls its unveil parameters from a config file?
03:57 < phy1729> yes /usr/local/share/doc/pkg-readmes/firefox
03:58 < echelon> cool
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04:03 < cws6969> echelon: Yes, I can browse the web and see the file before I want to download it. So the network connection is normal
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04:05 < echelon> is your default download dir or the place your saving the file to some place other than ~/Downloads as phy asked?
04:08 < cws6969> The default download file is ~/Downloads  , I did not specify that the download be saved to another directory
04:09 < echelon> weird, well i don't know anything more about this, phy suggests reading the readme ^
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10:24 < yj2> in case cws reads returns and reads this somehow, I have seen firefox behave oddly with downloads if freshly installed. Some lame hack fixed it for me once or twice. You may have to create ~/Downloads if it doesn't exist first. Or move a file to that directory first, or kill firefox and try again, or reinstall firefox, or some such other.
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10:49 < rnkn> yj2: they look gone, but there is memoserv
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10:57 < yj2> good idear
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11:34 < avemestr> Spooky: https://github.com/curl/curl/discussions/12026 "Severity HIGH security problem to be announced with curl 8.4.0 on Oct 11"
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11:38 < oldlaptop> Well that's not good.
11:38 < lts> "The one rated HIGH is probably the worst curl security flaw in a long time." :-)
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12:44 < renaud> avemestr: and the github thread is closed because they don't want to release before the 11th
12:44 < renaud> so sad people take security like this
12:46 < renaud> and the "this issue has stayed undetected for years for a reason" is laughable
12:46 < renaud> how do they know it has been undetected?
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12:48 < zyxer> No
12:49 < zyxer> They closed it because ppl are trolling or illiterate
12:49 < zyxer> "We cannot disclose the versions affected because xyz"
12:49 < zyxer> 80% of the comments: "What versions are affected?"
12:49 < zyxer> renaud
12:50 < zyxer> And ppl sub to the thread for info, not to get spammed with emails of ppl asking which versions are affected
12:51 < avemestr> https://oss-security.openwall.org/wiki/mailing-lists/distros < list of OSes deemed worthy of getting a heads-up.
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12:52 < zyxer> I think their actions are appropriate. They gave 7 days heads up, because if they release it immediatly, some security person may be having a day off and the patch releasing would make it easier for more people to exploit it on companies or people that haven't had time to prepare or implement
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12:53 < zyxer> It's a mailing list. Can't like, anyone subscribe to them?
12:53 < avemestr> OTOH bad actors now have a week to really exploit it (because there's something severe) and all good actors are left hanging.
12:54 < zyxer> You are assuming they are all aware of it
12:54 < zyxer> Most aren't, and it's not like bad actors don't actively try to find exploits
12:55 < zyxer> I mean, if our security personell has a day or two off then there is almost a guarantee a bad actor will be successfull on our company. 
12:55 < zyxer> And while yes, some bad actor probably already knows of the exploit, but most don't I would bet
12:56 < renaud> An error occurred during a connection to oss-security.openwall.org. 
12:56 < zyxer> What if you saw that in 3 days, and during those days some bad actor, that got the patches and could easily extract what the issue is, got to your equipment? Would you not complain that they maybe should wait a bit?
12:57 < renaud> how do you know people already don't exploit that bug in high profile exploits?
12:58 < zyxer> I don't, but I suspect releasing it immediatly would cause issues for far more people 
12:58 < avemestr> zyxer: https://itwire.com/business-it-news/security/handling-of-cpu-bug-disclosure-incredibly-bad-openbsd-s-de-raadt.html
12:58 < renaud> The hackers that you know and make the headlines are only known because they failed and were seen.
12:59 < zyxer> High profile people may have status but they are still few. And I rather have big tech be affected rather than small profiles affected by skids
12:59 < renaud> besides the oss security doesn't warn OpenBSD due to problems with Theo releasing patches "too early"
13:00 < zyxer> What?
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13:00 < zyxer> The link you sent he complains about selective disclosure
13:00 < zyxer> Literally the opposite of what they do now
13:00 < avemestr> zyxer: What are you on? Normally embargoes are used to the slow big tech companies (Microsoft, IBM, RedHat, Oracle, etc.) have time to make a fix to their software and get it deployed. Not to help the small vendors.
13:01 < zyxer> They try to disclose it at an anounced time in order to make sure as many as possible get the info at the same time
13:01 < avemestr> zyxer: What?! It's quite selective. Not everyone can get on that mailing list.
13:01 < zyxer> What? Can't you just subscribe?
13:02 < zyxer> And follow the git or something?
13:02 < zyxer> I mean the info reached here no?
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13:02 < zyxer> Wouldn't it be more selective saying "We release patch now" and then it took OpenBSD community one bonus day to get the news?
13:03 < avemestr> No, you cannot just subscribe. Look at the page.
13:03 < orwell> Moin! Why is hw.cpuspeed lower then the possible CPU speed? What can I do to change that? https://paste.dismail.de/?3d60fb39970f41cc#HXZQbWzsnnc4FU6kGFk6YEqAkeUsX4PNLDHJAvsFLkj
13:03 < zyxer> You can subscribe to the git at least
13:03 < zyxer> And to the other mailing lists that is connected
13:04 < renaud> getting on the oss-security list is not that hard
13:04 < zyxer> Yea, would be weird if it was
13:04 < renaud> but there is another one
13:04 < renaud> which only allows 1 person per distro or so to connect
13:04 < avemestr> Anyways, the people on the oss-security list knows more than what is written on github. There is the selective disclosure.
13:04 < renaud> and OpenBSD has somehow been banned from it
13:05 < zyxer> Really? They give more info there? 
13:05 < avemestr> renaud: Probably because OpenBSD have a tendency to issue patches right away when they become aware of a security issue.
13:05 < renaud> avemestr: that's the exact reason
13:06 < renaud> a patch was published before the end of embargo
13:06 < renaud> so, they banned OpenBSD
13:06 < renaud> that was something like 10 years ago
13:06 < avemestr> zyxer: It's written plainly on the github page: "We wait until October 11 to ensure.... give "distro people" a few days to prepare patched updates...."
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13:07 < zyxer> Oh, I thought he meant a heads up so the distro ppl are ready at the 11th
13:07 < avemestr> zyxer: So obviously there's more info available to some - otherwise they could not prepare patches updates.
13:07 < renaud> that's one of the mails: https://lwn.net/Articles/602090/
13:07 < zyxer> Ok ok, I missunderstood what was meant by that. Guess I am still naive
13:07 < zyxer> In that case I completely agree with you
13:08 < renaud> yes, they release the full patch to people designed as CSO for each distro
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13:09 < renaud> and I completely agree with Theo's point of view on this
13:09 < renaud> you never know if it's not already exploited or not
13:10 < zyxer> Yea, and that behaviour is great motivation for a bad actor to want to get on it. 
13:10 < zyxer> Wouldn't suprise me if a bad actor is there already. 
13:10 < zyxer> If they do indeed get the privilege of getting security flaws told before everyone else
13:11 < renaud> there are people paid quite some money for finding issues. They know there is one in curl and have a few days to discover/exploit/sell it if it's not already done
13:11 < renaud> some of these people could even be on the private list
13:12 < avemestr> An nobody is "allowed" to fix their software until Oct 11 because then the flaw becomes obvious to all. So now everybody has to stay vulnerable for a week. 
13:12 < zyxer> Yea they probs try to get on the private list
13:12 < renaud> I can create my distro and ask to be on the list. If you are a big actor, that shouldn't be a problem.
13:13 < zyxer> I mean, it is common for bad actors to have a product. Intel have their backdoors etc., probs not too hard to distro their way to the "top" and get to the mailing list
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13:16 < orwell> What's the difference between hw.cpuspeed and hw.sensors.cpu0.frequency0?
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13:35 < jmcunx> orwell: check 'man 2 sysctl', it is over my head, but HW_SENSORS is tagged as N/A inder the "Changeable" column
13:40 < renaud> I thnk hw.sensors.cpu0.frequency0 is the real freqyuency at which the CPU is running, while hw.cpuspeed is what you tried to configure it to via hw.setperf
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13:47 < orwell> Okay, I was unsure because `man 2 sysctl` says "The current CPU frequency (in MHz)". And this differs extremely from hw.sensors.cpu0.frequency0.
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13:50 < jmcunx> fwiw, on my sys they are the same, but I use port obsdfreqd, which changes the freq dynamically
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14:03 < renaud> hw.sensors.cpu5.frequency0=1600000000.00 Hz
14:03 < renaud> hw.cpuspeed=2400
14:05 < orwell> renaud: This is the opposite from my systems.
14:05 < orwell> lower frequency than cpuspeed
14:09 < avemestr> Here it's hw.cpuspeed=1400 and cpu0=1350000000.00 Hz, but cpu 2, 4, and 6 = 1400000000.00 Hz. 
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14:43 < norrland> orwell: apmd running? check what 'sysctl hw.setperf' is set to
14:44 < orwell> no, hw.setperf is set to auto
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14:54 < tommyrot> cpuspeed is probably the highest frequency any one core is running at, where cpuX.frequency is per core
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14:55 < orwell> tommyrot, definitevely not. As you can see at my results.
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16:12 < steerpike> is there a doc somewhere explaining how to create a livecd of and openbsd install?
16:12 < steerpike> s/and/an/
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16:19 < xse> steerpike: maybe check out fuguita's documentation
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16:21 < monkeybusiness> https://fuguita.org/?FuguIta/StartGuide
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16:40 < IcePic> given that obsd is very easy to install on a usb stick, livecd's are not very popular if you need a complete useful install without touching your harddrive
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16:47 < steerpike> IcePic: yes, that's the intention it should not be touched
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16:49 < steerpike> xse, monkeybusiness thanks!
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19:26 < vortexx> has anyone tried trunking to speed up the throughput of the APU2/3/4/5/6 ? I'm going to recable my place with cat 6 UTP and was thinking of laying down two cables instead of one while I'm at it since my server is using trunking too
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21:16 < ssm_> I'd like to thank openbsd for being the best operating system I've used, and I'd also like to curse openbsd for being so much better than linux that using linux feels like pulling teeth, and realistically when I join the workforce I'm going to be using more linux than openbsd
21:21 < avemestr> Perhaps you may wind up in a position where you can actually push for using OpenBSD.
21:21 < avemestr> Not mindlessly, but in the situations where it would make sense.
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21:48 < byteskeptical> you've heard of puff the magic dragon, but have you heard of it's smaller, less elevated, relative
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23:52 -!- sunwind [~paradox@31.111.34.162] has quit [Quit: Outside Context Problem.]
23:53 -!- memset [~memset@gateway/tor-sasl/memset] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 06 00:00:22 2023