--- Log opened Tue Oct 10 00:00:28 2023
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00:08 < a1fa> o//
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00:11 < a1fa> i did a sysupgrade against cdn servers, and it worked the other day o/
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00:12 < vortexx> avemestr: it is me
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00:12 < vortexx> I asked misc@ cos I was at a loss on what to do
00:12 < vortexx> damn bitrot
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00:15 < a1fa> hi vortexx 
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00:21 < vortexx> hey a1fa 
00:21 < a1fa> how's it it going?
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00:56 < a1fa> https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.4/amd64/SHA256.sig
00:56 < a1fa> this worked the other day oO
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01:02 < fro> ok
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01:06 < vortexx> a1fa: so you got lucky with the cdns ? good stuff. Are you still using OpenBSD on APU for routing? Was wondering if you noticed a pf speed up at all
01:06 < vortexx> doing well here
01:07 < vortexx> (sorry I forgot to scroll down)
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01:11 < a1fa> vortexx: i was using those old apus for DMR hotspots lately
01:13 < vortexx> what's a DMR?
01:13 < a1fa> $ dmesg | egrep ^cpu0:
01:13 < a1fa> cpu0: Geode(TM) Integrated Processor by AMD PCS ("AuthenticAMD" 586-class) 499 MHz, 05-0a-02
01:13 < a1fa> vortexx: ham radio MotoTRBO
01:13 < vortexx> oh an ALIX
01:13 < vortexx> oh right ham radio, good fun that
01:13 < a1fa> those little boxes do great
01:13 < a1fa> i am also running 7.3
01:14 < vortexx> and you're able to boot with even 32M of ram left over? :)
01:14 < a1fa> i am  hoping 2023/7.4 is the year of the openbsd desktop 
01:14 < a1fa> vortexx: yeah, works fine ;)
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01:16 < a1fa> https://rsadowski.de/posts/2023-10-09-p2k23-dublin-openbsd-hackathon/
01:16 < a1fa> looking forward to plasma 
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01:17 < vortexx> yeah KDE fans are going to be pleased
01:17 < vortexx> nice, my ports finished building
01:17 < vortexx> all 1607 of them
01:17 < a1fa> sweet
01:18 < vortexx> some KDE stuff got pulled in for some reason
01:19 < vortexx> also pkg_add is SO much faster now
01:20 < a1fa> in 4.0?
01:20 < a1fa> err 7.4
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01:21 < vortexx> yeah 7.4
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01:23 < vortexx> also this: -rw-r--r--  2 _pbuild  _pbuild  230518 Oct  8 01:49 /data/packages/amd64/all/wayland-1.22.0p0.tgz
01:23 < a1fa> :tumbs_up
01:23 < vortexx> I haven't tried it, as I haven't upgraded the laptop to 7.4 yet
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01:44 < a1fa> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169661875119482&w=2
01:44 < a1fa> beatings will continue until the morale improves 
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01:48 < a1fa> Did Marc and Theo have a fall out?
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01:49 < a1fa> or is Teddy just having a bad day? He may need a hug
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01:50 < fro> that's not a response to marc
01:50 < fro> it's a response to the person who replied after that
01:51 < a1fa> fro: yeah, but read the response to Marc.. he went of on him too
01:51 < fro> he was pretty rude to marc earlier in the thread
01:51 < fro> yeah
01:51 < fro> but i mean he's like that a lot, isn't he?
01:51 < terr> I see we have an #openbsd channel here.  Is this the official?
01:51 < fro> no
01:51 < terr> BP
01:51 < fro> there is no official openbsd channel
01:52 < terr> NP
01:52 < terr> Oh
01:52 < fro> a1fa: he's also right tho
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01:53 < fro> of course he could have said it in a nicer, less confusing way
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01:53 < terr> I need to bring up my webservers.  Is a Raspberry Pi suitable?.  Really old ones.   I have other equipment available
01:54 < a1fa> ^ no
01:54 < terr> How come?
01:54 < fro> i don't know anything about raspberry pis
01:56 < terr> Oh.  Think really bad.   But I was running web sites before 2000 and all that equipment was real bad
01:57 < terr> fro s/pis/PIs/  good joke
01:57 < a1fa> i wonder if Marc will quit after this
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01:59 < fro> i wouldn't read too much into it
01:59 < fro> but i don't know these people
01:59 < terr> What is the up to?
02:00 < terr> Theo
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02:20 < terr> I live in the same city as Theo.  We can run Shoulders.  But I use OpenBSD on the firewalls and servers because its the best since sliced bread
02:21 < terr> I am looking for SoC which can run OpenBSD
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02:30 < vortexx> terr: Do not prompt for authentication if password is saved
02:30 < vortexx> oops
02:31 < vortexx> terr: http://www.openbsd.org/plat.html check out arm64 and others, there's SoC stuff in there but support is often less than optimal
02:31 < terr> I just started looking into this
02:33 < terr> vortexx. Thanks.   I am swamped now because I am bringing up multiboot Debian & windows.   But that is working.
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02:35 < terr> I am doing SoC because I am developing CNC.  I need cheap controllers.   And I cannot believe how cheap.  It opens a world of options
02:38 < mischief> used thinkpads are under $100.
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02:41 < oldlaptop> people build those into CNC machines now?
02:41 < oldlaptop> the ones with (real) serial and parallel ports are really starting to get old
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02:45 < oldlaptop> terr: The oldest Raspberry Pis (the original, armv6 ones) will not run OpenBSD, and are very unlikely ever to run OpenBSD (pre-armv7 support was removed years ago now). They'll run a web server just fine, though not a very busy one.
02:47 < terr> oldlaptop.  I think mine might be that vintage.  Old Wine they say
02:48 < oldlaptop> The pi2 is perhaps not as hopeless, being either armv7 or arm64, but AIUI those also don't run openbsd
02:48 < terr> I bought a box full a Calgary computer recycling
02:48 < vortexx> terr: if you think multiboot is hard, try doing it with an encrypted /boot for the linux part :)
02:49 < terr> vortexx that is not on the 'el cheapo stuff
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02:51 < terr> I got a dozen RPi machines in s case for like under $15 each.  I figure that can run a webserver
02:51 < terr> Maybe not.  I have not wasted time on this.
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02:53 < oldlaptop> One interesting to try with one of those would be an sndio server. (sndiod runs on Linux, so even the ones that don't run OpenBSD can do that)
02:53 < terr> I have to get servers up again.  I have been paying for static ips sincec1997.  Lighting
02:53 < oldlaptop> Plug it into a set of speakers somewhere, and you can use them over the network from an OpenBSD machine. :)
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02:54 < terr> LOL.  These do have a & b audio out.  Lol
02:55 < oldlaptop> (Unfortunately the original ones don't have very good DACs. But it'll work.)
02:55 < terr> LOL
02:55  * oldlaptop ran one like that with a USB DAC for a while
02:56 < terr> For $15 bux each should be a good mine
02:58 < terr> Well.  More serious.  Next is bring up pc engine equipment.
02:59 < terr> s/good mine/gold mjne/
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03:08 < mischief> if you're talking about the og rpis, they are better off as a dog toy
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03:26 < terr> mischief. I don't have a dog
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03:27 < terr> I figure.  $15  bux.  I will take a chance.   ABBA sang this song
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03:38 < mischief> time to find a mutt and give him some dog toys.
03:40 < thrig> leave my MUA alone
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05:45 < avemestr> terr:  But have your IPs actually remained static since 1997 or have there been a change?
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06:14 < IcePic> terr: as for SoC-that-run-obsd, I could perhaps chip in with octeons, for instance Edgerouter3 which should be easy to come over cheaply, and which has good support in openbsd. Not super fast, but whatever hw is on them seems well supported.
06:14 < IcePic> (and fanless, disk on usb stick)
06:15 < dlg> what are you trying to do?
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06:31 < zyxer> Neomutt on OpenBSD server. Here we go
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06:46 < renaud> someone wants to port eza which is a replacement for "ls" written in rust... What's the purpose of rewriting stuff like "ls" in rust???
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06:49 < avemestr> renaud: It's a derivative of The CADT Model (https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html), except ls does not have known bugs, IIRC.
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08:14 < zyxer> Hi
08:17 < zyxer> It seems I have an issue? I get mail from Charlie Root (why is it called Charlie Root?) about issue with my daily.local
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08:17 < zyxer> Oh, wait. Sorry, it just hit me something I had forgotten to fix
08:18 < zyxer> (remembered that I added some stuff to that file now that I cat:ed it)
08:18 < renaud> is there a GUI browser for an rsync repo?
08:19 < renaud> ah, grsync
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09:38 < renaud> zyxer: root:*:0:0:Charlie &:/root:/bin/ksh
09:40 < renaud> That seems to be related to the famous baseball player, but I have no idea why
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09:42 < renaud> zyxer: https://ja-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Charlie_Root_(%E3%82%AA%E3%83%9A%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%A0)?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp
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09:44 < zyxer> Interesting. 
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12:12 < markand> TIL about root's name
12:13 < markand> however what I never understood is the precense of shell startup files in /
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13:56 < renaud> what's that in -current ports?: ERROR Backend 'hatchling.build' is not available.
13:56 < renaud> doesn't happen on 7.4
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14:07 < IcePic> renaud: same as this? https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports-cvs&m=168024516627818&w=2
14:07 < renaud> yes
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14:10 < renaud> it happens on 7.4 too, it was just behind the -current compîlation
14:13 < renaud> will python change build scripts every 6 months?
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14:15 < IcePic> from my experience at work, python changes daily, forcing everyone to have pyenvs to keep anything working two days in a row
14:16 < thrig> competition for javascript frameworks, eh
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14:19 < Minall> Hello OpenBSD Community!
14:20 < Minall> Just wanted to come by to thank the community and betabug, I'm right now bootstraping openbsd from an USB, testing it atm. I had to avoid encription
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14:48 < zyxer> Hi Minall
14:48 < zyxer> Why did you have to avoid encryption?
14:48 < zyxer> Just curious
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15:11 < betabug> I suggested it to try it out first and remove some complexity
15:11 < betabug> I don't mean to avoid it altogether
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15:54 < Minall> zyxer When installing the bootloaded it would failed if I used encryption. It worked perfectly without it
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15:55 < Minall> betabug True, I'm just testing the system rn, but I would use encryption for real
15:55 < Minall> In an actual SSD and all
15:58 < betabug> I guess some mistake when setting it up, probably when selecting the device
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16:15 < vortexx> Minall: did you decide to set up the encrypted disk as GPT or MBR? if you boot on UEFI make sure you select G for both the disk to be encrypted and the encrypted virtual disk
16:17 < vortexx> the A option when asked how to setup the disk makes it MBR (and yes when you choose G for GPT you're warned it may not boot but it does boot every time if you're on UEFI)
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16:36 < Foxy_> renaud: hatchling is a Python backend supported to build ports/packages
16:36 < Foxy_> see man python-module
16:36 < Foxy_> install it via port devel/py-hatchling or pkg_add -Dsnap py3-hatchling
16:38 < Foxy_> renaud: some port uses hatchling as backend with MODPY_PYBUILD=hatchling
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18:07 < avemestr> Sooo, Google has been having trouble with their Google Kubernetes Engine now for 9 (nine!) days. It seems adding layers of complexity to your stack is not always a great thing to do: 
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18:07 < avemestr> (Worth remembering next time the "why no docker on OpenBSD" question comes up in chan)
18:10 < thrig> Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die
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18:18 < markmcb> One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
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18:39 < riceandbeans> Is there a unix command to reverse lines 
18:39 < riceandbeans> I want to reverse stdin, assuming it's unsorted and won't be sorted
18:39 < phy1729> rev
18:39 < riceandbeans> The order from stdin, reversed
18:40 < riceandbeans> rev prints the characters in reverse, not the line order
18:40 < phy1729> oh boo that's linewise
18:40 < riceandbeans> Yeah....
18:40 < aqsd> Does OpenBSD have 'tac' ?
18:40 < il> well, you can't do it in real time
18:40 < riceandbeans> I can hack something up without too much trouble in a script but I was then curious if there's something that just does it
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18:41 < riceandbeans> I don't think tac is in base
18:41 < riceandbeans> it's on freebsd and dragonfly though
18:41 < gipa> riceandbeans: tail -r
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18:42 < phy1729> awk '{a[NR]=$0}; END{ for(i=NR; i; i--){ print a[i]; }}'
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18:42 < riceandbeans> gipa: 
18:42 < riceandbeans> you win, that works
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18:42 < il> there you go
18:43 < riceandbeans> phy1729: If no one else had said something built in I was going to do perl, but awk was my 2nd choice :)
18:43 < aqsd> Oh nice gipa!  TIL and thanks!
18:43 < quinq> phy1729, please stop showing off with awk
18:44 < riceandbeans> awk is life man
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18:45 < quinq> :)
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19:52 < jonadab> riceandbeans: perl -e ' print reverse @STDIN; '
19:53 < thrig> what's the STDIN array?
19:53 < jonadab> Oh, sorry, that should be <STDIN>
19:53 < jonadab> Brain fart.
19:54 < jonadab> riceandbeans: perl -e ' print reverse <STDIN>; '
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19:55 < jonadab> The main performance holdups are A) it won't start printing until the end of the stream comes in, and B) the whole stream has to fit in memory.  But these things will be true with any implementation.
19:56 < jonadab> Well, any implementation that doesn't explicitly write everything to disk.
19:56 < thrig> you don't need to read in the whole file if you hunt around for newlines in blocks of memory
19:59 < jonadab> And just store the offsets?  I suppose, yeah.
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20:00 < jonadab> But if it's not in memory, then it's got to be on disk.  And standard input usually isn't.
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20:02 < thrig> pipes can be hard to seek or mmap on
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21:57 < kodcode> What are the (dis)advantages of the various vim versions? (gtk3 vs no_x11)?
21:58 < thrig> presumably the gtk3 one pulls in gnome junk
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22:08 < aaronm04> kodcode: the disadvantage of the no_x11 flavor is that you need to use it in terminal
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22:09 < thrig> that's a disadvantage?
22:09 < aaronm04> to me, yes
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22:13 < vortexx> vim comes in a gnome flavour?
22:13 < vortexx> what won't they invent next...
22:13 < xse> is there even much differences in that aspect ? i can imagine maybe something like gtk making "text selection via mouse click+drag auto triggers visual mode"
22:14 < aaronm04> it's not gnome, just gtk
22:14 < aaronm04> not nearly as heavy on dependencies as gnome is
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