--- Log opened Fri Oct 13 00:00:32 2023
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10:14 < uorka> #freebsd
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10:54 < Filystyn> any info on 7.4? ;-)
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11:07 < renaud> yes, I upgraded all my servers 1 week ago :D
11:07 < renaud> that saiud, it will be officially released on the 16th
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11:08 < Filystyn> wooow
11:08 < Filystyn> after Polands election
11:08 < Filystyn> Never would have thought this is connected
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11:28 < andinus> Login username is off but still has a valid shell and alternate access files in home directory are still readable.
11:28 < andinus> i get this mail from security(8), what does alternate access file are still readable mean?
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11:36 < renaud> andinus: in "man 5 passwd", search in the paragraph where the word "asterisks" is
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11:37 < andinus> i see, so it seems like the user username does not have a password set
11:38 < andinus> does this warn me about there being a user without any password but being able to do things via other means (ssh)?
11:39 < andinus> ah i see other daemons have shell as nologin
11:39 < renaud> and have 13 asterisks in master.passwd
11:39 < renaud> not just 1
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11:40 < renaud> I mean, if you want that message to be sent, put 13 asterisks instead of one, or put /sbin/nologin
11:40 < renaud> to not be sent
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11:42 < andinus> i see
11:42 < andinus> setting a passwd would also do the trick right?
11:42 < renaud> yes
11:43 < andinus> i see, thanks. i put in 13 asterisks
11:43 < renaud> as long as you have a password, 13 asterisks or /sbin/nologin
11:43 < andinus> any clue why it's 13 specifically?
11:43 < renaud> conventionally have 13 asterisks
11:44 < renaud> I suppose it's all history
11:44 < andinus> i see
11:45 < IcePic> I'm guessing pw hashes could have many different formats, but none had 13 chars, so the login would know it was intentionally disabled and not just some weird hash that accidentally ends up being 13 identical ascii chars
11:46 < renaud> that might indeed be one reason
11:47 < renaud> in fact, no
11:47 < renaud> DES has 13 chars
11:47 < renaud> I think that's where the 13 comes from
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12:12 < oldlaptop> a single DES key is seven eight-bit characters, no?
12:13 < inz> Its one way to represent it.
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12:34 < unpx> Or eight ascii characters :^)
12:36 < oldlaptop> unpx: (does seem more relevant in this context: https://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-2.2/crypt)
12:37 < oldlaptop> still not clear (to me anyway) where 13 comes in to it
12:37 < unpx> Oh, they really did that. ``The first 8 bytes of the key are null-padded, and the low-order 7 bits of each character is used to form the 56-bit DES key.'' I was kidding.
12:38 < unpx> oldlaptop: have no clue, too
12:39 < oldlaptop> I recall at least one tool that "password-protected" files that obviously was just using the password directly as a DES key. I can't remember whether that was seven or eight now...
12:48 < Foxy_> Filystyn: release for OpenBSD 7.4 scheduled for Monday October 16, 2023 => see https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/src/etc/root/root.mail?rev=1.165&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup
12:48 < renaud> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypt_(C)
12:49 < oldlaptop> ah, (not-)base64
12:50 < unpx> Foxy_: curl?
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13:55 < Filystyn> ok ok thx
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14:14 < unpx> If I wanted to backup a qcow2 disk, do I have to stop the running vm?
14:15 < IcePic> unpx: yes
14:15 < IcePic> it probably is possible to make a copy, but from the outside, you can't really be sure that the VM has flushed writes to its drive at any given point
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14:16 < IcePic> so if the VM is not stopped, it will be like a physical box where you randomly pull the power plug. Mostly fsck repairs everything, sometimes it does not
14:18 < sibiria> a quicker way, if you have console access, is to halt it, backup, then just press any key to reboot
14:18 < unpx> The only way I can think to do that without stopping the machine is ssh/rsync
14:18 < sibiria> faster than mucking about in a "cloud control panel"
14:19 < unpx> ...and it sounds dump to me, but if it the only way...
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14:21 < IcePic> even in-guest backup solutions need to take running stuff into consideration
14:22 < IcePic> freezing databases and so on, otherwise you still get inconsistent backups
14:23 < unpx> Uhm, I'm guess that /home does not contain any critical database
14:24 < IcePic> unpx: perhaps, but it would be silly if all backup solutions only thought about "how should IcePic backup his stash of lolcat pictures" and not how people use computers broadly.
14:24 < IcePic> anyone can copy static unmoving files from A to B
14:25 < IcePic> (also, browsers, thunderbird and other programs stash a lot of your "profile" as an SQLite DB in.. your home account)
14:25 < uwharrie> filesystem consistency is for weenies?
14:26 < IcePic> uwharrie: nah, consistent working restores is for cowards. ;)
14:26 < sibiria> yeah! and pansy bedwetters!!1
14:26 < IcePic> schroedingers backup <- when you never test restores
14:26 < sibiria> real men suffer after every backup/restore
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14:30 < unpx> Overall I should rethink my home servers, IcePic, indeed no commercial or critical stuff is done 
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14:38 < IcePic> unpx: the good part of in-guest backups is that you can easily skip backing up /bin/ls and so on, since the OS is easy to get hold of again in a disaster recovery situation, so just backing /etc and /home and so on saves you from moving 40G images around just to back up some configs and home-account stuff
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14:39 < thrig> or configuration management could rebuild a stock server
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14:40 < IcePic> thrig: isn't that cheating?
14:41 < thrig> some might call it sanity
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15:16 < welcome> HeLO
15:16 < welcome> I just submitted my first panic to bugs@openbsd.org
15:16 < welcome> You can see it here : https://www.komododragon.tech/panic.html
15:16 < welcome> OT warning
15:17 < welcome> quakespasm timedemo 916.5 fps ziggurat vertigo
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15:44 < byteskeptical> welcome: try disabling your nic or wifi.
15:48 < vortexx> welcome: also you could include a screenshot pic on your website's bug report
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15:57 < avemestr> 0,,0
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16:09 < mozhaaak_> Hello, does anyone know how to setup openbsd as a dynamic DNS server, a have friend in need i need to serve it for
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16:12 < echelon> mozhaaak_: using nsd?
16:12 < mozhaaak_> echelon: idk, is there a page u can send me too, not that good with nsd
16:14 < mozhaaak_> echelon: or if u did it urself, i'd like to hear about it
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16:17 < echelon> i've done dynamic dns with powerdns, they have two ways of doing it
16:17 < quinq> mozhaaak_, nsd is quite easy to setup, but you'll have to learn about BIND zone format
16:17 < echelon> one is through the DNS protocol itself, and the other is through their http api
16:17 < quinq> Though dynamic is another topic
16:18 < quinq> iirc there's a dhcpd hook for this too
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16:18 < echelon> if it's for a user that's outside of the network i don't think they would be using dhcp
16:18 < mozhaaak_> quinq: echelon: No I mean, I want to be a DDNS service for someone, i don't need DDNS myself perse
16:18 < echelon> right
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16:20 < quinq> mozhaaak_, the existing solutions are not bound to yourself or another one :)
16:21 < mozhaaak_> I wasn't able to find much info on it, mostly just client configuration, saw something about original dhcpcd having this functionality, but nothing in obsd's manpage, don't think it's in there
16:21 < quinq> If you mean to have a third party managing the zones, then there are synchronizing features
16:22 < echelon> it sounds like he wants to serve his own ddns service on his own domain
16:22 < mozhaaak_> YES!
16:22 < quinq> Though AFAIK, it only works with authoritary servers
16:22 < dayid> dynamic as in "it's just not a static zone file" or are you wanting dynamic as in "there's some client running that automatically updates my roaming home dhcp/isp-assigned ip"
16:22 < quinq> In the sense that you cannot sync with a non-authoritary server, while also being an authoritaty server
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16:23 < echelon> this is how it's done in bind.. https://docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/latest/recipes/bind-rfc2136.html
16:23 < mozhaaak_> Can i do something like, asign a subdomen of a domen i own to my friends ip on intranet
16:23 < echelon> for nsd, i can't seem to find much documentation
16:23 < echelon> yes
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16:24 < dayid> mozhaaak_: yeah, you'd just set an NS record to split that "subdomain" and redirect it to your friends DNS server
16:24 < mozhaaak_> though I'd need to sync the ip info somehow when his ip changes
16:24 < dayid> or if they don't want their own server, you could just make 1 hostname that directs to their IP.
16:24 < echelon> his friend isn't running a dns server
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16:24 < mozhaaak_> Well he has a openwrt router
16:25 < mozhaaak_> network stuff is black magic to me :P
16:25 < echelon> i doubt it has an auth dns server out of the box
16:25 < quinq> If it's not a big domain, maybe avoid that “dynamic” model
16:25 < quinq> Just keep it static, but updatable
16:25 < echelon> i think what you want is to just create a hostname for him that he can just auto-update against
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16:25 < quinq> yeah
16:25 < mozhaaak_> yea
16:27 < echelon> i wonder if you have to create a separate zone just for him
16:27 < echelon> it seems like it according to the doc ^
16:27 < echelon> update-policy { grant *.dyn.example.com. self . A AAAA; };
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16:29 < echelon> mozhaaak_: https://nsd.docs.nlnetlabs.nl/en/latest/
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16:32 < mozhaaak_> echelon: I'll look there, will cry for help if needed :D
16:32 < echelon> this is what a barebone zone file will look like https://nsd.docs.nlnetlabs.nl/en/latest/zonefile.html
16:32 < welcome> I will try that, byteskeptical 
16:32 < echelon> still digging through it for a update policy option specific to nsd
16:32 < welcome> I did, vortexx 
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17:45 < echelon> mozhaaak_: bad news.. https://lists.nlnetlabs.nl/pipermail/nsd-users/2018-October/002621.html
17:46 < echelon> if you insist on using nsd, you could perhaps create a web api that interfaces with nsd-control utility that your friend can reach
17:46 < echelon> but other option is to install bind or powerdns which i personally use
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17:48 < echelon> hmm.. i'm not sure, can you use nsd-control to change records?
17:49 < thrig> you could have a script rebuild a zone file and then poke nsd
17:51 < echelon> yeah
17:52 < echelon> depends on how much effort you want to put into it
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17:54 < echelon> as dayid suggested, you can assign NS record(s) for the subdomain your friend wants to use and have it point to another provider like afraid.org
17:54 < echelon> that would be easiest
17:54 < echelon> you would have to create the subdomain in its own zone
17:55 < echelon> on the nsd side
17:56 < thrig> and annoying glue record updates if the other provider changes IPs
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17:58 < echelon> well, the provider would be doing a zone transfer from his nsd instance
17:59 < echelon> actually, no that wouldn't be necessary
18:00 < xse> i'd have him use something like duckdns.org and just cheat adding a CNAME on your subdomain, that's bound to work without too much hassle
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18:07 < vortexx> https://gitlab.com/mclemens/nsd-dyndns this might be of help
18:07 < vortexx> ?
18:07 < vortexx> (requires running an http server)
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18:12 < echelon> it requires installing bash though :S
18:13 < echelon> it looks simple enough to translate to any programming language of your choice though
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18:18 < vortexx> echelon: that's not too much of an obstacle for the average person
18:18 < echelon> :/
18:19 < echelon> they can even implement unveil and pledge
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18:29 < mozhaaak_> Thanks for the tips guys!
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18:57 < vortexx> as much as I encourage using tools in base, sometimes it's faster and easier to use something from packages, and this is a good case of it
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19:04 < n4dir>  /wc
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22:53 -!- markmcb [~markmcb@192.252.212.12] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.0.4]
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23:17 -!- byteskeptical [~amnesia@user/byteskeptical] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
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23:42 -!- echoSMILE [uid504326@user/echosmile] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
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23:56 -!- panicking [~panic@2804:14c:878d:8a5e:a962:c26:e466:17f7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:59 -!- nyah [~nyah@york-06-b2-v4wan-167893-cust646.vm25.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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--- Log closed Sat Oct 14 00:00:33 2023