--- Log opened Mon Oct 16 00:00:18 2023
--- Day changed Mon Oct 16 2023
00:00 < oldlaptop> bothering about specifying IDs manually at *all* is pretty silly; starting manual assignments at 500 will bring you *directly* into conflict with "system groups" on most systems (certainly that I have to hand at the moment)
00:00 < pardis> "files will only be accessible to the owner by default" is also wrong on (almost?) all Unix systems
00:01 < pardis> most systems have default homedir permissions that make files only *writable* by the owner by default
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00:02 < il> the GID 500 thing is on page 187 of Unix and linux system administration handbook, 4th edition, so the summarizer didn't make it up, take it up with Evi Nemeth
00:03 < pardis> also "tools that rely on group IDs and memberships, like software installation" is just a bizarre claim
00:03 < oldlaptop> This isn't a "defend the honor of the LLM against the evil luddites" thing; relying on a nonspecific resource *directly* would also be rather foolish.
00:03 < pardis> if your Makefile relies on existing group IDs on the system, other than perhaps wheel=0, I would say it has a bug
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00:04 < oldlaptop> the kinds of "software installation tools" that care about numeric IDs at all are going to be pretty intensely system-specific
00:04 < thrig> maybe it botched naming NFS across systems
00:05 < oldlaptop> the nightmares are endless
00:05 < vortexx> yeah with NFS in particular you need to watch out 
00:05 < il> pardis, apropos "files will only be accessible to the owner by default" is your misreading. It clearly says "Using personal groups as the default helps prevent inadvertent file sharing...", It doesn't imply that it IS the default everywhere.
00:06 < il> oldlaptop, I'm not defending anything's honor, you're just being pedantic and I'm being pedantic as well
00:06 < pardis> it's not my misreading, it's a direct quote from what you posted (painstakingly typed out since you posted text as an image for some reason)
00:07 < il> It's not a direct quote, because it's missing the first 2 sentences in the paragraph?
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00:07 < pardis> it's part of the first sentence in the paragraph, and the first part of the sentence doesn't change the meaning at all
00:07 < il> I posted text as an image because i have a screenshot script
00:07 < pardis> this seems like a strange hill to die on
00:08 < il> It does change the meaning
00:08 < il> it's not a strange hill to die on
00:08 < il> But that is all the time I'm willing to spend on it
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00:57 < vortexx> 7.4 has hit my local mirror, happy release day everyone!
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02:01 < vortexx> that was weird, on reboot I had no IPv4 default routes
02:01 < vortexx> router updated to 7.4 \o/
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02:10 < vortexx> mh the routers have a user & group 71 for Proxy (no idea which...) which is now being claimed by _bgplgd (have to swap em out)
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03:17 < welcome> Check this out http://www.komododragon.tech/life.html
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04:39 < rnkn> it's not really 7.4 until the artwork changes
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04:42 < welcome> I had an idea for a song
04:42 < welcome> but I didn't write it down ... yet
04:43 < rnkn> let's hear it, turn on your mic
04:43 < welcome> Your one in a million
04:43 < welcome> that's as far as I got
04:46 < rnkn> You're*
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04:56 < welcome> ty
04:56 < welcome> :)
04:57 < welcome> *You're
04:57 < welcome> You're a shooting starrrarrr
04:57 < welcome> You're one in a million babe
04:58 < welcome> oooh , you know that you areare
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04:59 < welcome> I saved it from incendirism the other day
05:00 < welcome> but my brain i]s busy using the free memory in the same brainspace so I can;t remember it
05:00 < phy1729> welcome: could you stick to OpenBSD please
05:00 < welcome> we are talking about a new song for 7.4
05:01 < welcome> yessir
05:01 < phy1729> No you're talking nonsense
05:01 < welcome> ok
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05:08 < welcome> ok
05:08 < welcome> I am getting panics from amd radeon GPU init after a 7.3 or snapshot install
05:10 < welcome> I would like to submit, but bugs@openbsd.org needs a trace and something else I can't reemeber right now which I cannot provide as ddb is non-responsive
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05:38 < welcome> I read through marc but there isn't that much there
05:38 < welcome> relating to this I mean
05:44 < welcome> If I knew Theo wasn't here ....
05:44 < welcome> I might mention it.
05:44 < welcome> Should I mention it?
05:44 < welcome> I dunno
05:44 < welcome> I think I'll try implementing first then mention it
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05:46 < welcome> I'm working on a security thingummy
05:46 < welcome> I've got the mechanics o the algorithm down on paper
05:46 < welcome> I just need to to try it eith a crypto that is GNU friendly
05:47 < welcome> *with
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05:49 < welcome> the purpose is to create an integrated interlock mechanism which exists before data - ie., a prepered container which interlocks as it is populated with data
05:50 < welcome> *prepared
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05:54 < IcePic> welcome: that sounds like a solution, but to which problem?
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05:56 < welcome> Well that is a thought provoker question, 
05:56 < welcome> It isn't such that there is a problem to start with,
05:57 < welcome> more,
05:57 < welcome> that it (openbsd, cryptographic security etc.) could b improved
05:57 < welcome> I thinks
05:58 < welcome> anyway,
05:59 < welcome> I'll leave it till I have something that works on the commandline before elaborating 
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13:04 < renaud> yay, 7.4 released :)
13:05 < inz> bye bye uptime
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13:08 < renaud> hmmm, for pfsync, do I need to do someting if my hostname.pfsync0 is up syncdev bnx0 syncpeer x.y.z.a?
13:09 < renaud> it seems so
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13:28  * jmcunx love the art work
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13:36 < eea> aww yea, good art work
13:36 < eea> now to just wait for the 7.4 t-shirts 
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13:38 < Posterdati> hi
13:38 < Posterdati> hwat about -> https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.4/packages/aarch64/: empty
13:39 < pardis> tried another mirror?
13:39 -!- tux0r [~tux0r@rosaelefanten.org] has quit [Quit: ne praeteriverit priusquam obesa cantaverit]
13:39 < Posterdati> no
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13:41 < renaud> https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.4/packages/aarch64/ is full of packages for me
13:41 < renaud> has been for at least 3 days
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13:45 < vortexx> oldlaptop: time to change the topic back
13:45 < Posterdati> there are problems updating aarch64 userland
13:46 < Posterdati> pkg_add -vu fails on raspberry pi
13:47 -!- loganaden [~logan@196.1.0.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
13:47 < vortexx> could you pastebin the output?
13:47 -!- b50d [~b50d@62.96.54.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:47 < vortexx> when it fails
13:48 < pardis> tried another mirror yet?
13:48 < vortexx> if you're using the cdn it's probably at fault
13:49 < Posterdati> no I'm using the first mirror from Germany in the list
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13:51 < Posterdati> vortexx:  https://pastebin.com/0wwjwS5z
13:51 < Posterdati> sysupgrade worked
13:52 < pardis> there's probably not much point continuing to complain if you aren't going to try the suggestions made
13:53 < Posterdati> which are_
13:53 < Posterdati> ?
13:54 < vortexx> yeah try another mirror after doing pkg_delete -a (you've got a bunch of .libs in there that are leftovers from previous releases that can be removed now)
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13:55 < vortexx> https://mirror.ungleich.ch/pub/OpenBSD/7.4/packages/aarch64/ this is the mirror I use (I didn't test aarch64 though)
13:56 < Posterdati> ok
13:56 < Posterdati> it performing pkg_delete -a
13:56 < Posterdati> now
13:56 < oldlaptop> vortexx: quite
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13:58 -!- ChanServ changed the topic of #openbsd to: Unofficial OpenBSD support channel; please try to stay on topic |  https://www.openbsd.org | FAQ: https://www.openbsd.org/faq | Read These Fantastic Manual Pages (hopefully we can help you find the right one): https://man.openbsd.org/ | Can't speak? https://libera.chat/guides/registration | 3+ line pastes? https://clbin.com | Political discussions and other incendiary topics are unwelcom
14:00  * oldlaptop patiently waits for the new T-shirts
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14:01 < Posterdati> vortexx: seems to go >)
14:01 < Posterdati> https://mirror.ungleich.ch/pub/OpenBSD/7.4/packages/aarch64/python-3.10.13.tgz: TLS handshake failure: handshake failed: error:02FFF020:system library:func(4095):Broken pipe
14:01 < vortexx> ugh
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14:04 < IcePic> doesn't seem to be anything wrong with mirror.ungleich.ch cert
14:05 < zyxer> Borked pipe
14:06 < IcePic> my guess is more on "bad clock/date"
14:06 < Posterdati> could be
14:06 < zyxer> Yea, Posterdati check ur clock
14:06 < zyxer> It may bork the pipe
14:06 < Posterdati> now it is updating
14:06 < zyxer> (Yea my terminology is completely incorrect atm)
14:07 < solene> enjoy a super fast pkg_add -u
14:07 < zyxer> I shall update my server once I get new upgraded CPU, so I can upgrade, then poweroff, change CPU, and then power up and finish installing upgradiums
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14:08 < Posterdati> 10/10/2023 :)
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14:17 < armin> happy release day!
14:17 < Posterdati> to you too!
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14:22 < vortexx> solene: it really is a lot faster! good work!
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14:32 < Posterdati> ... and finally we have sbcl for arm with threads support :)
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14:36 < luna__> 7.4 is out
14:36 < vortexx> we know
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14:40 < Posterdati> vortexx: do we know?
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14:42 < avemestr> Doesn't get much more official: https://www.openbsd.org/
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14:42 < il> lol
14:43 < Posterdati> lol
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15:25 < pinheadmz> new to openbsd -- not very familiar with pkg_add... how can i install the gnu toolchain? autoconf, gcc etc
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15:27 < byteskeptical> pinheadmz: pkg_info -Q packagename (partial or full) <- for search
15:27 < pinheadmz> https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/6.8/packages/amd64/: no such dir
15:27 < pinheadmz> ?
15:28 < armani> too old
15:28 < pinheadmz> figures! been a while since i started this VPS
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15:29 < armani> I used https://ftp.hostserver.de/pub/OpenBSD-unsupported/ to update an old 6.8 box 2 weeks ago, have been slacking way too long.
15:29 < pinheadmz> thanks. how did you... use this ?
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15:29 < pinheadmz> oh i see its got old packages. thought you meant you upgrade to 7.4
15:30 < armani> I did upgrade, one per one ;)
15:30 < armani> with sysupgrade
15:31 < avemestr> pinheadmz: You must find a mirror that has so old files.
15:32 < armani> IcePic: I know that name, nice too see you are still there <3
15:32 < avemestr> Your installation is like 3 years old..
15:32 < armani> avemestr: I just gave him one 
15:32 < avemestr> pinheadmz: And then enter it in /etc/installurl
15:32 < pinheadmz> sysupgrade with link from armani is working so far, thanks
15:32 < Bradipo> This is why I preferred the CDs.  I could buy a CD and it would work no matter how old it got.
15:33 < armani> Bradipo: just do an usb key per release ;)
15:33 < Bradipo> Yeah, well, there are still ISOs if I wanted to burn my own.
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15:36 < Bradipo> I'm just not an artist so my CDs don't look as nice, and don't have any stickers.
15:36 < il> I just keep a bunch of isos on a ventoy
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15:38 < armani> Bradipo: isn't the point of self burned CD to be awful, written with bad written inscriptions half worn-away ?
15:38 < Bradipo> You mean the kind you throw in the microwave for a few seconds?
15:39 < armani> ahah
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15:52 < pinheadmz> armani got up to 7.0 but getting 404s now from your link and the default sysupgrade service
15:53 < armani> pinheadmz: because that is not in unsupported folder anymore ? :)
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15:53 < pinheadmz> got it! tytyt
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16:05 < moviuro> Hi all, I'm about to buy a gaming machine. Because I have no idea of what will become of said machine in the far future, I'm looking for a mobo with decent BSD support (Intel ethernet would be a safe bet - e.g. em(4)), and I see that rge(4) has support for RTL8125B, which is used in quite a few gaming mobos (and much cheaper than the ones with Intel NICs): how well will/does rge(4) perform?
16:06 < Bradipo> So I'm not sure what the intersection of "gaming machine" and "OpenBSD" is... unless you're planning on dual-boot?
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16:07 < Bradipo> Or you mean that once it finishes performing it's function as "gaming machine" you may want to use it as OpenBSD?
16:07 < moviuro> Bradipo: second option
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17:00 < mischief> huh. i think 7.4 is actually faster. at least for iperf3 on my odroid-h2+ ... :-)
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17:18 < vortexx> mischief: there's been some pf improvements
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17:21 < yj2> mov i pm'd you
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17:24 < zwr> my uptime just reached 2 months :(
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17:26 < yj2> upgrading to 7.4 https://clbin.com/onT0X 
17:26 < yj2> interesting
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17:27 < zwr> were you low on space or are the files that big?
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17:30 < yj2> good question.. let me see ... 1.0 GiB used (105%)  |  16.0 EiB free (1784625113127%)
17:31 < zwr> it appears you also found a bug in whatever program that is, the free space counter broke
17:31 < yj2> yeah gave me a good chuckle
17:32 < eea> /7/7
17:32 < eea> oops
17:32 < thrig> code from elsewhere may be ignorant that a disk can show >100% usage
17:32 < vortexx> yj2: is /home part of your / or is it on a separate partition?
17:33 < untitled> zwr: or he is connected to entire google datacenter
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17:33 < phy1729> yj2: part of the disk is reserved for root's use; by default 5 percent iirc
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17:34 < tercaL> On OpenBSD 7.3, before I go with "sysupgrade" via my ssh client (remotely controlled server), I had /auto_upgrade.conf file containing lines like; the set name(s) = -game*, to prevent installing  those packages. But when I typed sysupgrade and rebooted, it seems the upgrade process installed all the sets for 7.4, completely. Where was my mistake, I wonder and wanted to ask?
17:34 < phy1729> newfs(8) -m
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17:35 < phy1729> sysupgrade will overwrite your auto_upgrade.conf
17:35 < tercaL> phy1729: Oh?
17:35 < zelest> You could 'sysupgrade -n' then edit the auto_upgrade.conf that sysupgrade creates.
17:36 < tercaL> zelest: Didn't know at all about that, thank you!
17:36 < yj2> vortexx: phy1729: fixed, per usualy I had accidentally a big file in root taking up space
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17:37 < yj2> genius stuff here
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17:37  * phy1729 guesses /dev/sd1 was a large file
17:38 < yj2> ding ding ding ding. except it was sd3 lol
17:38 < phy1729> tercaL: or just install the game set; it's not large. IIRC the man set is bigger
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17:39 < tercaL> phy1729: Well, I don't need all those x* sets as well, except xbase.
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17:40 < Bradipo> I always install the game set... must have atc.
17:40 < phy1729> You get to keep the pieces if anything breaks. I'm somewhat suprised theo hasn't merged more of the sets to take away the knob.
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17:44 < vortexx> phy1729: yeah this keeps coming up, we're going to end up with just one blob at this rate
17:44 < vortexx> yj2: well done on solving it
17:47 < mischief> vortexx: indeed
17:47 < mischief> i think i get about 300Mbps more oomph now
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17:56 < tercaL> zelest: In an another test box of mine, I did 'sysupgrade -n', and /auto_upgrade.conf was created, I edited it, adding; "Set name(s) = -x*", then ran 'sysupgrade', however it was the same as the other box, all the sets are installed. Any clue?
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18:01 < Posterdati> hi
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18:02 < Posterdati> mmmmh I experienced some strange lookups with xfce screensavers on intel i5 with intel graphics
18:04 < Posterdati> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 4th Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 06)
18:04 < Posterdati> :(
18:04 < Posterdati> no errors in /var/log/messages
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18:05 < Posterdati> or elsewhere
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18:23 < Posterdati> ...
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18:24 < thrig> so many *.core!! /me recompiles stuff
18:24 < tercaL> It's weird that, after upgrade, Qualys SSL Labs test for HTTPS/SSL websites, gives: "HTTP request to this server failed, see below for details.", mywebsite works fine with browsers and my nginx configuration has nothing weird at all, checked with "nginx -t", I had no such message as I checked just before I upgraded. Could anyone kindly wish to check for one more website running nginx in OpenBSD 7.4? Would be grateful! https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze
18:24 < tercaL> .html
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18:25 < tercaL> Hopefully it's not something with LibreSSL..
18:26 < IcePic> I think I have seen that with non-nginx things too, their tests aren't 100%
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18:32 < armani> tercaL: I don't think you can unselect sets in auto_upgrade
18:32 < h3artbl33d> tercaL: Nah, its not something with LibreSSL - running the most current snapshot on a bunch of webservers, in comparison with nginx - all is great
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18:38 < thrig> I recall some frowning about nginx and ssl recently on the lists?
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18:40 < tercaL> And now one more tool; immuniweb.com/ssl/ reports: "SERVER DOES NOT SUPPORT OCSP STAPLING". However it's implemented correctly in my nginx.conf file, and just before upgrade, I had no such messages from none of those SSL checkers, and I haven't changed anything at all, regarding the nginx configuration. Something is not good, obviously.
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18:52 < tercaL> Okay, one-click revert to older snapshot, that I had half hour ago on Hetzner, back to OpenBSD 7.3, both websites/tests are fine now. No more "HTTP request to this server failed" from Qualys SSL Labs, and no more "SERVER DOES NOT SUPPORT OCSP STAPLING" from Immuniweb SSL test. Obviously, something is wrong with 7.4.. It seems I'll remain here. :/
18:54 < vortexx> better write to misc@ with details of your config
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18:57 < uwharrie> could it have something to do with dropped support for old TLS versions?
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18:58 < tercaL> I got "ssl_protocols TLSv1.3 TLSv1.2;" in my nginx.conf, if that would help?
18:58 < tercaL> Writing to @misc right now
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19:04 < pardis> misc@ is likely the wrong place if you're using nginx
19:04 < pardis> at least if you haven't verified that it's a problem with a base library that nginx is using
19:04 < pardis> are you sure it isn't an upstream behaviour change? have you checked the nginx changelogs for TLS-related changes?
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19:17 < jvl> LibreSSL version 3.8.2   does "Disabled TLSv1.0 and TLSv1.1 in libssl so that they may no longer be selected for use. " in https://www.openbsd.org/74.html isn't this what you're seeing? 
19:21 < tercaL> jvl: No, anyway, I only have TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3 enabled in nginx.conf. pardis: No upstream thing, a very simple, basic web serving with a single nginx.conf mostly default parameters + Let's Encrypt certificate.
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19:25 < tercaL> Got "ssl_ciphers" only from TLSv1.2 and TLSv1.3 and "ssl_prefer_server_ciphers on;" as well.
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19:27 < h3artbl33d> tercaL: OCSP stapling is broken beyond repair in nginx
19:27 < uwharrie> can the test sites be asked for more verbosity than "doesn't work"?
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19:28 < h3artbl33d> Sometimes. I believe that when the cert has the 'must-staple' bit set, but nginx doesn't staple it correctly, that SSLlabs states that.
19:30 < tercaL> h3artbl33d: Oh, been there done that.. Had happened to me that one, long ago, so the cert has no must-staple bit set. And uwharrie I really wish they could bring further details, yeah..
19:30 < h3artbl33d> tercaL: Hmmm that is very strange. Are you willing to share the ssllabs result page?
19:31 < tercaL> h3artbl33d: Oh, it's gone, reverted the VPS to 7.3 snapshot and did a check again to make sure it's fine again..
19:32 < h3artbl33d> With the exact same nginx config?
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19:34 < h3artbl33d> This one runs the Saturday, oct 14th snapshot: https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=h3artbl33d.nl&s=46.23.94.147 
19:35 < h3artbl33d> Disabled the 'must-staple' - not because of nginx but because it breaks some mail clients
19:35 < tercaL> h3artbl33d: main nginx.conf: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/awFBoZZO and my vhost conf: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/UxP6HxxB
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19:39 < h3artbl33d> AFAIK the ECDH curves can really screw up the SSLlabs test. 
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19:39 < h3artbl33d> I believe I have "X25519:secp521r1:secp384r1" set
19:40 < h3artbl33d> (cant look it up right now)
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19:40 < h3artbl33d> And nginx has an option to throw in a trusted cert for the stapling
19:43 < tercaL> h3artbl33d: So that's the SSL test result of the current system (7.3) after reverted from 7.4; https://smallpdf.com/result#r=d39e6d9581ac4b49cb25288aee9d246f&t=share-document
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19:45 < tercaL> h3artbl33d: We both have very common ssl_ciphers preference it seems, however I keep having: "TLS_ECDHE_ECDSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384 (0xc024)   ECDH x25519 (eq. 3072 bits RSA)" for compatibility actually; "Safari 8 / OS X 10.10", even the page says "WEAK" and downgrades my overall grade.
19:46 < h3artbl33d> tercaL: Sweet - but yeah, I'd personally ditch the CBC cipher (despite not being a risk). Do you have a reason to offer support for Safari 8 on macOS 10.10?
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19:47 < tercaL> h3artbl33d: Well, actuallyyes, for few totally oldie family members :)
19:49 < h3artbl33d> tercaL: I presume you know that macOS 10.10 has long been EOLed? I guess the risk with those machines isn't the TLS to your website ;)
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19:50 < tercaL> h3artbl33d: :) lol.. true.. gonna remove it completely soon.
19:51 < h3artbl33d> tercaL: Good. You can always point those folks towards something like the Open Core Legacy Patcher. IMHO, it works pretty great, unless the system has an Nvidia GPU in it. And you might want to upgrade to a supported, but older version first, as the newer builds *require* some metal GPU and the emulation by OCLP can be quirky.
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20:10 < adig> Hey, just upgraded to 7.4, chromium menus have a white rectnagle behind them.
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20:48 < vortexx> I'm trying to get an IPv6 default route on a VM I've started on exoscale.ch. I'm getting the right IP for the interface but no default route, hostname.vio0 has: inet6 autoconf -soii -temporary
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20:50 < vortexx> slaacd is running but doesn't seem to be getting anything
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21:47 < mystic> hello guys is there a way to keep an old version of a package? So avoid whan I make pkg_add -uU to upgrade a specific package. Something like "keep this version of the package".
21:47 < thrig> manually compile that software yourself and manually install it
21:48 < phy1729> Why do you want to keep the old version?
21:49 < mystic> phy1729: because the new version has less features :-(
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21:50 < mystic> phy1729: I'm talking about the xdaliclock package. The new version has a gtk gui but all the command line switches has been deleted. And the gui has less features. 
21:51 < phy1729> Sounds like you should fork the project and make your own package
21:52 < mystic> phy1729: yes, exactly
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21:55 < adig> Any ideas on the white rectangles behind chromium menus?
21:56 < adig> It only happens when I enable "Chrome Refresh 2023"
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22:06 < yj2> could be a GTK thing
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22:07 < yj2> have you tried messing with theming inside / outside chromium?
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23:25 < NewtonPumpkin> does openbsd support nvidia cards yet?
23:25 < uwharrie> no
23:25 < NewtonPumpkin> (toung in cheek sorry)
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23:25 < NewtonPumpkin> also it can use them in fallback vga mode from what i've heard, is that true?
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23:26 < thrig> yes! but nv(4) is a bit old
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23:26 < NewtonPumpkin> i respect you taking your time, but it would be well cool to do inference on openbsd
23:26 < NewtonPumpkin> im looking forward to the day i can be secure doing that
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--- Log closed Tue Oct 17 00:00:05 2023