--- Log opened Tue Oct 17 00:00:05 2023
--- Day changed Tue Oct 17 2023
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00:30 < vortexx> could someone please remind me how you view debug info on wireguard interfaces?
00:32 < phy1729> man wg   has the command
00:32 < uwharrie> `ifconfig wgN debug` then it'll get kprint'ed to the console and 
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00:33 < uwharrie> ...wherever /dev/klog gets routed
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00:41 < vortexx> ah yes I'm seeing some stuff on dmesg
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00:43 < yj2> create a windows installation USB on OpenBSD, impossibru?
00:43 < yj2> you'd think you can extract the iso to the usb but...
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00:45 < vortexx> yj2: pretty much. Various linux instances work, I dunno about the other BSDs
00:46 < vortexx> maybe if you had it setup to do autoinstall
00:47 < vortexx> (so add an AutoUnattend.xml to the iso)
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00:58  * oldlaptop finds it *most* irritating that linux hides the equivalent of `ifconfig wgN debug` behind the whole debugfs system that you don't get to have on linuxes' equivalents of stock GENERIC
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01:04 < dlfke> do I need to install 7.4 to continue receive updates?
01:05 < uwharrie> 7.3 will continute to receive updates until 7.5 is released
01:06 < yj2> vortexx: I'm probably not smart enough to figure that out right now but that's an interesting idea
01:07 < oldlaptop> You need to install 7.4 in the next six months to continue to receive updates. :)
01:07 < oldlaptop> (after which time 7.5 will be released and 7.3 will go EOL)
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01:31 < vortexx> dlfke: if you stay on 7.3 you won't get packages updates though
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02:11 < fro> you'll still get security updates for packages
02:11 < fro> _some_ packages i guess
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02:11 < fro> either way: stop giving people incorrect information
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02:14 < lockywolf> Congratulations on the new version
02:22 < brynet> fro: no, only the latest release receives -stable packages, 7.3 package builders migrate to 7.4 -stable.
02:23 < fro> my bad
02:23 < fro> i thought there were some backported updates for the previous release as well
02:23 < fro> but that's just patches then?
02:23 < brynet> some stuff may get backported to 7.3 -stable ports, but users have to build those themselves.
02:24 < fro> i see
02:24 < brynet> There are syspatches for both 7.3 and 7.4, but only -stable packages for 7.4.
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02:25 < fro> makes sense
02:27 < vortexx> thanks brynet 
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02:30 < lts> /dev/sd0f      1.9G    1.6G    251M    87%    /usr
02:30 < lts> Yikes
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02:32 < brynet> If anyone is curious how -stable packages are built, solene actually has a git repo with the custom scripts she uses: https://tildegit.org/solene/openbsd-stable-packages
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02:34 < vortexx> lts: it's fine so long as you have a /usr/local and /usr/X11R6
02:34 < vortexx> it's full like that because of KARL
02:35 < vortexx> if you want to add a ports tree you're going to be short of space though
02:35 < vortexx> (most people don't need this)
02:35 < quinq> “make liste” :D spotted
02:36 < vortexx> chassez le naturel...
02:37 < quinq> héhé
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02:38 < oldlaptop> slack space in /usr isn't doing much for you with a default-ish partitioning scheme
02:38 < oldlaptop> (mostly future-proofing, really)
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02:42 < e54> Hello all, giving OpenBSD a test drive. Kicking the tires.
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02:43 < vortexx> e54: good luck
02:43 < vortexx> oldlaptop: yeah but zabbix will moan at you for partitions more than 80% full
02:43 < e54> I know my way around for most part? I think
02:43 < vortexx> (I'm sure that can be ajusted somewhere)
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02:45 < e54> Is multiple disk encryption in the works? I have two identicle laptops ASUS q505uar. Two ssd in both
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02:51 < lts> You mean raid1c?
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02:56 < brynet> e54: Yes, but there's no guided setup for that in the installer, you need to do it manually.
02:58 < e54> brynet: using bioctl?
02:59 < e54> I thaought i read while ago bioctl can only do one encrypt one disk?
03:01 < brynet> That is true for the CRYPTO disipline, that is why RAID1C was added (RAID1+CRYPTO).
03:01 < vortexx> e54: using bioctl create the raid1 softraid disk then encrypt it 
03:01 < vortexx> iirc
03:01 < vortexx> or is there a bioctl discipline for RAID1C?
03:02 < brynet> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#softraid
03:02 < vortexx> my bad, there is
03:02 < brynet> But use '1C" for the raidlevel: https://man.openbsd.org/bioctl#1C
03:04 < brynet> It's currently a very manual process, so you're kind of on your own. Hopefully some day the guided installer setup might support more than just CRYPTO.
03:09 < e54> brynet: I'm unfamiliar with RAID kinda. I dont mind the manual process.
03:09 < e54> I usually have disk1 = system disk2 = home
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03:11 < brynet> Then this probably isn't what you're looking for, RAID1 is mirroring.
03:11 < lts> So you encrypt both disks separately and either decrypt them separately or store the decrypt key for home disk on the root disk
03:12 < e54> brynet: no, not what i was after, but thank you for feedback
03:13 < e54> Yes, say debian or devuan, disk1 = efi,boot,root(encryped) disk2 = home(encrypted)
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03:15 < vortexx> on OpenBSD the whole slice is encrypted, we don't /boot
03:15 < vortexx> it's a bit easier than on linux
03:16 < e54> exept for the efi
03:16 < vortexx> yeah except for efi, that's on a separate partition of course
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03:17 < e54> OpenBSD has many qualities that drow me back. Love the sanity. lol
03:19 < vortexx> btw you can encrypt /boot on linux but it tends to be a manual install
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03:26 < e54> vortexx: yes,done it. Don't mind the the manual stuff. Would love to give OpenBSD some love though.
03:27 < jrmu> j -ircnow planetofnix
03:27 < jrmu> sorry wrong window
03:29 < e54> I know it's a small group (OpenBSD). What they do they do well.
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03:32 < e54> Unix philosophy
03:34 < e54> Speaking as a user. Systemd, software crawl.
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03:36 < e54> Trying to be everything to everyone. Systemd tetris is next. intertangled mess
03:37 < e54> I'm not even a developer. I see it
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03:38 < magnahelix> The monoblob known as systemd...
03:39 < magnahelix> *shudders*
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03:40 < e54> magnahelix: Like i said. I'm not a dev, far from it. I know basics.
03:41 < magnahelix> Mainline linux distros are out of pocket with systemd.
03:42 < magnahelix> You know something is messed up when PID 1 is a boot loader, dns client, ntp client, logger, services init, the works. xD
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03:51 < e54> magnahelix: If you boot up so often your concerned about 30 secound boot up? Something is wrong with your life. lol
03:51 < magnahelix> That too.
03:52 < e54> lol
03:55 < e54> Anyway? 7.4 congrads. 
03:55 < Bradipo> Oh, 7.4 is out... guess I'll have to ramp up for upgrades.
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03:58 < e54> props to all that have worked hard for release
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04:22 < e54>  
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04:42 < rnkn> yet another boring and uneventful sysupgrade
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04:45 < phy1729>  (and sysmerge, pkg_add -u, pkg_delete -a, sysclean)
04:52 < znedw2358> anyone having issues with dhcpleased not getting an ip on 7.4?
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04:54 < znedw2358> state_transition[vioO0] Init -> Init, timo: 4
04:54 < znedw2358> DHCPDISCOVER on vioO
04:54 < znedw2358> iface_timeout(1]: Init
04:55 < znedw2358> lots of that
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06:29 < markand> o/
06:30 < IcePic> znedw2358: strange it says "vioO0" instead of vio0, as if you have made a wrong hostname.vioO file
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06:39 < Voyager_MP> Im looking for a new LTE card for my X1 Lenovo Gen 8, one that works under obsd, any recomendations ?
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06:44 < rnkn> if I set up a VPS now with a certain partition layout, can I easily grow that at a later date?
06:44 < IcePic> the last partition is easiest to grow into added space
06:44 < IcePic> but one can also add a new disk and have it become a partition of its own
06:45 < rnkn> so there's no easy way to e.g. grow all partitions by 50%?
06:45 < IcePic> no
06:47 < IcePic> but that specific scenario sounds very much like the corner case of corner cases
06:48 < markand> I have some errors while running pkg_add -u on a fresh upgrade to 7.4: http://ix.io/4Jcg
06:48 < markand> I've tried some pkg_check, pkg_add -uU and pkg_delete -a but pkg_add -u still ends like this
06:50 < IcePic> markand: I would focus on gtk4-update-icon-cache and gtk-update-icon-cache since those seem to be causing all the other issues
06:50 < markand> webkit seems too 
06:50 < markand> my pkg_info -mz is very small though, also tempted to wipe packages and just do a fresh pkg_add -f ...
06:51 < IcePic> markand: yeah, that might also be a possibility
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07:17 < znedw2358> IcePic i OCR'd a screenshot of the vps console...
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07:20 < IcePic> zd
07:20 < IcePic> miss
07:21 < IcePic> znedw2358: that would be a good service for someone to make, upload a obsd screen and have it OCRd to text
07:21 < IcePic> since the fonts are basically fixed, it "should" be easy
07:22 < znedw2358> i just picked the first google result
07:22 < znedw2358> i didn't feel like manually transcribing 
07:23 < znedw2358> the console resolution is fixed at 800x600 or something tiny as well, hard to read
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07:29 < markand> that was actually faster
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07:32 < avemestr> I just let i ran. I eventually fixed itself (the gtk4-update-icon-cache-stuff).
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07:37 < rnkn> I may have spoke too soon regardding an uneventful sysupgrade; my VPS has twice spiked to 100% CPU and needed to be hard cycled
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07:45 < welcome> HELO
07:45 < welcome> WOW
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07:46 < welcome> openbsd74=love(me)
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07:49 < welcome> It is so ice, I wish I had some money so I could thank you all
07:49 < welcome> *nice
07:50 < welcome> This time I actually botheded to signify install74.img
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08:31 < welcome> Dear #openbsd,
08:31 < welcome> How do I get my Red Dragon to work?
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08:32 < welcome> Is it just considered unsupported until further notice?
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08:34 < welcome> https://www.powercolor.com/product?id=1585713590
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08:55 < IcePic> welcome: seems like an old enough amd gfx card to have some support. 
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08:57 < IcePic> welcome: perhaps you should get familiar with https://www.openbsd.org/report.html
08:57 < welcome> yes, IcePic . I thought more about the same when I purchased it., having had a fairly good experience with radeon cards so far
08:59  * welcome reads
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09:01 < welcome> Hum
09:01 < welcome> https://man.openbsd.org/sendbug looks interesting
09:02 < CosmicDJ> welcome: did you check our PCI ID? Looks like some RX 550 cards *are* supported https://bsd-hardware.info/?id=pci:1002-67ff-1462-8a91
09:02 < CosmicDJ> +y
09:04 < welcome> looks
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09:07 < welcome> ok, you've given me some work to do, and I will do it. Is it ok to get dmesgs etc from the install kernel (which boots fine)?
09:15 < IcePic> welcome: it is a limited kernel, so if that is the only dmesg you can get, it is better than nothing. If possible, try booting an older kernel, if only to grab the older dmesg
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09:59 < welcome> I have had the same panic with 7.3, a 7.3 snapshot as well as 7.4- I think it's eactly the same
10:00 < welcome> I will try with the installer kernel
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10:16 < MaddieKalan> :( No 7.4 song? I was really looking forward for this release.
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10:49 < welcome> I wouldn't be surprised if they are still tuning up for it
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11:48 < ludovicus> oh yeah 7.4 let's goo
11:50 < zelest> that's yesterdays news :)
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11:51  * oldlaptop continues waiting for T-shirts
11:51 < oldlaptop> (although hey, last chance to get the 7.3 ones!)
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12:07 < avemestr> Hmmm, my APU4D4 is struggling more under 7.4 than 7.3 it seems.
12:08 < avemestr> A totally un-scientific test shows download speed on a wired client has gone from 65MB/s to 45-50MB/s. High "sys" utilization on a single core most of the time.
12:12 < avemestr> unbound constantly waiting for netlock.
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12:18 < CosmicDJ> avemestr: latest firmware? https://pcengines.github.io
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12:21 < avemestr> CosmicDJ: I'll check that out, when unbound is able to resolve, but the issue has arosen right after the 7.3->7.4 upgrade.
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13:03 < trench> https://www.openbsd.org/74.html
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13:16 < polarian> \o/
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15:38 < lts> All boxes updated. No major problems, /usr is getting above alert threshold on a few but that's self-caused. Salt-minions had to be given pkg_delete && pkg_add
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16:05 < byteskeptical> lts: a wild salt user, noice
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16:25 < remiliascarlet> Did pf change in OpenBSD 7.4? Because the config that worked fine in OpenBSD 7.3 no longer works on OpenBSD 7.4.
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16:30 < uwharrie> Yes     - Suite_MediaExperience_Functional-DC_LighthouseB_Nightly Integrated / Suppress Setup Alerts
16:30 < uwharrie>         - `Apple_Watch: [system.wait_until_booted] Failed to see Watch as ready within 300 second timeout`
16:30 < jmcunx> remiliascarlet: There is this, but I know littlw about pf(4): https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20230621081948
16:30 < uwharrie> https://www.openbsd.org/74.html
16:31 < uwharrie> There are some documented changes, but nothing that stands out as a blanket "make config that worked fine no longer work"
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16:32 < eea> my pf config survived the upgrade... and just ordered my 7.4 t-shirt 
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16:33 < eea> upcoming saturday, i'll wear my new shirt, some comfy pants, and get all my prod hosts upgraded
16:33 < il> the merch is on the site?
16:33 < eea> il: yes
16:33 < il> very nice :)
16:33 < avemestr> il: https://openbsd.creator-spring.com/
16:33 < il> the store is empty for me, though
16:34 < il> Nevermind
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16:38 < eea> Estimated arrival Fri, Oct 27 - Tue, Oct 31
16:38 < eea> gonna be a super fun halloween :)
16:39 < il> hah
16:39 < lts> "There are huge potential performance gains to be found if this works out right." <-- is that referring to redundant PF setups only?
16:40 < lts> From that undeadly.org link
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16:41 < uwharrie> that's about pfsync
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17:06 < CosmicDJ> I wonder what's cooking for FFS now that softdep is gone
17:07 < lts> Probably nothing
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17:09 < uwharrie> lock cleanups most likely
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17:10 < sibiria> CosmicDJ: softdep was removed so that other progress can happen to ffs
17:10 < sibiria> i recommend keeping softdep off anyway, unless the file system has nothing of value
17:10 < jmcunx> to be honest, I see no difference between softdep on/off 
17:10 < sibiria> needs busy file system
17:11 < sibiria> ...the kind where you don't want the risk softdep comes with
17:11 < phy1729> and it takes sacrificing your brain to Cthulhu to grok how it all works
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17:12 < lts> With 7.4 softdep is literally noop
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17:18 < byteskeptical> they just re-release softdep under a new name opendep
17:18 < sibiria> GNUDep
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17:19 < lts> microsoftdep
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17:24 < pardis> not just a busy filesystem, specifically a filesystem with lots of file creations/deletions
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17:24 < pardis> if you have a filesystem with a few files that are busily being written to all the time, softdep will do nothing
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17:25 < lts> I wish we could get a journaling filesystem, or a filesystem that would survive power losses with some other means
17:25 < lts> s/power losses/power losses and system freezes/
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17:27 < sibiria> softdep being removed may actually lead to such development
17:27 < eea> that would be extra exciting
17:27 < eea> to see such features baked into openbsd
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17:28 < lts> It would lead to OpenBSD being used in more places. Many more, I dare say
17:28 < uwharrie> See also https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169392301328799&w=2
17:28 < eea> these 7.4 performance changes have ultra optimistic for upcoming releases
17:29 < eea> have me*
17:29 < lts> All fingers crossed
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17:30 < lts> The filesystem fragility is my one big problem with openbsd, all others are cosmetic or trivial annoyances
17:30 < lts> Especially after the performance boosts in last few releases
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17:31 < eea> thinking about it... i have only had to fsck openbsd like twice since 5.9
17:31 < eea> on a failing box only
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17:33 < lts> I had a faulty UPS (which took a long time to find out) and one bare metal host which got freezes with 7.3. I've thought of introducing fsck to my parents
17:34 < lts> lost+found too
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18:03 < tmtt> Maybe a silly question, but what do OpenBSD devs commonly use to unit test their C programs / libraries (if they use any)? I really like the (Open)BSD way of doing things, especially concerning C code, and since I'm unable to find a simple-enough method to test my code, surely more seasoned C developers will be able to enlighten me on that topic.
18:04 < MaddieKalan> Does a command exist to mark a package as uninstalled without actually uninstall it? I want to replace ngircd-- with ngircd--ident
18:05 < MaddieKalan> tmtt: Not sure, I wonder aswell.  But I do know that one of the OpenBSD "things" is to refactor code very often.
18:05 < uwharrie> tmtt: http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/src/regress/
18:05 < phy1729> tmtt: man bsd.regress.mk
18:05 < lts> MaddieKalan: would "pkg_add -r ngircd--ident" do it? Better use -n to test
18:06 < lts> pkg_delete does not delete the configs though
18:06 < MaddieKalan> lts: Thank you :)
18:06 < MaddieKalan> (I was looking in the wrong man page).
18:06 < tmtt> MaddieKalan: I see.
18:07 < tmtt> uwharrie, phy1729: I'll look into those, thanks :)
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18:30 < IcePic> tmtt: perhaps look in the src/regress directory?
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18:53 < coreystephanphd> Cheers, folks. 7.4 yesterday. Lovely weather for the first time in 5+ months here in southern Texas. Good times.
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18:55 < jastrom> coreystephanphd: everything's coming up milhouse!
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18:56 < lts> Rural Texas + openbsd sounds like a very nice combo
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18:58 < coreystephanphd> OpenBSD + anything = nice combo
18:59 < thrig> facehuggers are a subset of anything
18:59 < lts> This is true. Well, except those power losses.
18:59 < lts> ref. coreystephanphd 
19:01 < coreystephanphd> Ha! Indeed, FFS is not the best for power outages, and the greater Houston area has more than its share of them.
19:01 < coreystephanphd> Sometimes, we all have to live on the edge.
19:02 < avemestr> lts: I would recommend you read the entire thread uwharrie linked... especially the posts from Nick and Janne.
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19:03 < thrig> for filesystems sake!
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19:09 < lts> avemestr: they are valid posts and I too have been bitten by btrfs. But openbsd/FFS is the only os/filesystem which gave me trouble when I had a faulty UPS constantly crashing bare metal hosts. My anecdotal experience is that journaling and ext4/zfs are great.
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19:10 < thrig> my anecdotal experience is that FFS is swell, and the many linux FS have given many hells
19:14 < il> My experience with ext4 has been exactly as it should be - I don't notice it's there.
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19:17 < CosmicDJ> anyone using smtpd on 7.4? Did you need to apply/recompile this patch to send mails? https://github.com/OpenSMTPD/OpenSMTPD/issues/1068
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19:18 < thrig> mutt tends to add message-id for me
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19:20 < Ltning> Thanks for another smooth upgrade and still running nicely on my Pentium Pro! :)
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19:35 < ssm_> 7.4 upgrade was largely uneventful
19:36 < ssm_> there was some weird stuff going on with package dependencies, but the package manager worked it out automatically
19:36 < ssm_> had a bunch of stuff depending on ImageMagick for some reason
19:40 < ssm_> sysclean wants to get rid of /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key{,.pub}, is that okay to delete?
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19:42 < thrig> DSA is probably old. is it listed in sshd_config ?
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19:42 < thrig> (or did any silly remote clients end up using it as a host key?)
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19:46 < ssm_> Take that as a yes
19:46 < IcePic> ssm_: I agree, dsa keys are ok to get rid of
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19:48 < phy1729> Unless you reenabled ssh-dss in HostKeyAlgorithms they're unused
19:48 < lts> Were 10ish years ago
19:49 < xse> maybe an old system ? default key types are "rsa, ecdsa, and ed25519" according to man ssh-keygen -> -A "This is used by /etc/rc to generate new host keys"
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19:51 < phy1729> It's showing up now due to https://github.com/openbsd/src/commit/fdd80b3518f1be1c7e85d7fcb7df0fdc29f01c0a
19:54 < Ltning> Are there old openssh versions availablle (easily) that I can use to enable SSH from my DOS and OS/2 machines to my OpenBSD?
19:56 < Ltning> ssm_: How did you sort it out? My pkg_add -u is still running .. And yes, dozens of packages that depend on/are depended on by imagemagick
20:00 < lts> Not graphicsmagick?
20:00 < thrig> old systems will be somewhat problematic with modern ssh
20:02 < lts> I mean, graphicsmagick has diverged from imagemagick almost 25 years ago http://www.graphicsmagick.org/FAQ.html#how-does-graphicsmagick-differ-from-imagemagick
20:03 < lts> And the security history of these projects.. differ
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20:05 < ssm_> Ltning: it gets through it eventually
20:05 < ssm_> seems like a bug though
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20:13 < znedw> my dhcp issue resolved itself, seems like it was a provider issue and it was just bad timing running sysupgrade
20:16 < ssm_> lts: isn't ImageMagick still maintained? Anyways, didn't know about graphicsmagick, looks cool
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20:26 < Ltning> tmtt1: Yea; I was hoping there would be an openssh-unsafe port or something, like there's openssl-unsafe (at least on FreeBSD) specifically for security testing and extreme legacy uses..
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20:41 < vortexx> Ltning: you'd be better off asking questions about ports of ssh to ancient platforms in channels like #classiccmp
20:42 < thrig> or put the classic system on a hopefully secure network and then use telnet or whatnot
20:42 < Ltning> vortexx: I was asking for an opensshd with support for (very) old crypto for modern openbsd..
20:43 < Ltning> thrig: I do that, but I was hoping to be able to use scp/sftp. Rsync is either not available at all or even longer in the tooth than ssh clients for some of those old platforms.
20:45 < Ltning> But never mind - it's not exactly a common or recommended use case. :)
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21:03 < vimflyer> Clang errors aren't being colorized on a default OpenBSD install. I'm accessing over SSH with a color capable terminal and the terminfo entry is installed. Running clang with -fdiagnostics-color=always uses colors, but -fdiagnostics-color=auto (the default) doesn't. This is over a login session with a psuedo-terminal, not a pipe or anything like that.
21:03 < vimflyer> Not really a big deal, but it'd be nice to know why. I haven't encountered this issue on other systems.
21:04 < thrig> you neglected to mention TERM ?
21:04 < vimflyer> TERM is rxvt-unicode-256color, and I confirmed a terminfo file is installed for it. Changing it to other more widely (and mostly compatible) supported values such as xterm-256color doesn't work either.
21:06 < vimflyer> I assume other OpenBSD users have colorized output on their terminals by default? Since ls doesn't support --color I don't know another program to check off the top of my head to make sure it isn't just a Clang issue.
21:07 < thrig> no, I totally disable colors by default
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21:09 < vimflyer> I'd just prefer it if -fdiagnostics-color=auto would work so that colors would be printed to a terminal automatically, but not to a file if it was redirected. Maybe that's just disabled on OpenBSD.
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21:13 < avemestr> vimflyer: There's colorls.
21:13 < avemestr> https://openports.pl/path/sysutils/colorls
21:14 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/in-urxvt-with-unreadable-blue.png
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21:17 < vimflyer> Looks like it's a Clang issue. colorls works as expected, and thrig seems to have confirmed that clang does not use colors by default. Was that only with urxvt or did you not test anything else?
21:17 < thrig> I did not test anything else as my xterm disable color, and I've modified the xterm terminfo defintions to remove indications of color support
21:18 < vimflyer> Hahaha, nice. What makes you not like color terminals so much?
21:18 < thrig> unreadable blue is a problem, and otherwise they are distracting (outside of silly games)
21:20 < vimflyer> Over my years of using terminals I created my own (fairly simple) color scheme that is very readable and helps out a lot. With urxvt you can specify the 24-bit hexadecimal colors in the configuration file for each color escape sequence, so you have full control over the color scheme.
21:20 < thrig> yes, and I instead disable colors
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21:23 < xse> vimflyer: https://github.com/ninja-build/ninja/issues/174 summarize your problem i think, for 'auto' clang does !isatty, isatty is 1, which makes not using color the default for terminal
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21:30 < vimflyer> xse: Looks like that's only because Ninja is redirecting the standard output/error of the program to a pipe. Checking for isatty is the standard and correct way to do it. However this applies to running Clang manually from a terminal, like what thrig showed in his uploaded screenshot.
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21:41 < xse> whelp unsure then :/
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23:55 < remiliascarlet> tmtt: I guess just printf-spam debugging, I personally never do unit tests, because I keep my code simple, and make sure to catch errors wherever things could possibly go wrong. I think the OpenBSD devs do something similar to that.
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23:55 < thrig> I have a test thing that runs whole programs with particular inputs and looks for particular outputs
23:57 < remiliascarlet> The other thing is that OpenBSD devs actually use the software they make on an every day basis, so if there's something that needs fixing, they'll eventually notice and fix it.
23:57 < remiliascarlet> Unlike FreeBSD devs, who just use MacBooks for everything.
23:59 -!- willyg_cos_ [~willyg_co@user/willyg-cos/x-4994202] has quit [Quit: willyg_cos_]
23:59 < thrig> pretty sure netbsd has some test framework thing
--- Log closed Wed Oct 18 00:00:39 2023