--- Log opened Thu Oct 19 00:00:01 2023
--- Day changed Thu Oct 19 2023
00:00 < codermattie> coreystephanphd: there are a lot of things that can affect that, your local network is the place to start
00:00 < Bradipo> So now that 7.4 is released, there are probably a lot of people now swarming to get it.
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00:00 < Bradipo> *a lot* being a relative term, since I doubt there are that many people using OpenBSD from among the entire world population.
00:01 < coreystephanphd> Sure. It is not a problem. If it happens again when I do another snapshot upgrade in a week or 2, I will do diagnosis. Otherwise, I will follow what you are suggesting, and what I already suspected, which is just that there is a server backlog or something. No problem.
00:01 < coreystephanphd> I mean...this installation is from March. This is the only problem that I have had with it. And it is not even a problem. OpenBSD is horribly boring.
00:02 < codermattie> coreystephanphd: OpenBSD is pure unix
00:02 < Zyxer> codermatti: I want to clone the luks encryption as well
00:03 < codermattie> coreystephanphd: if you want something flashy you need a flashy computer
00:03 < Bradipo> Reminds me of a non-boring install of Linux.  I installed it Monday, customized a bunch of things, enabled static IP network, etc.
00:03 < Zyxer> How is it boring? It has all fun capabilities
00:03 < Zyxer> Ricing, IP swttings
00:03 < Bradipo> Today I decided to enable NTP, so "apt-get install ntp".  It decided to do all kinds of crazy things with systemd, and eventually dropped off the network.
00:04 < codermattie> pf is super nice
00:04 < Zyxer> Only lacks games
00:04 < codermattie> emacs = games and shenanigans
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00:04 < Bradipo> So I had to drive into DC and "repair".  My "fix" was to dd miniroot74.img to a USB, and reinstall the whole thing!
00:04 < codermattie> in fact emacs has games and a psychologist
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00:17 < codermattie> Bradipo: I think linux did something funny to ntpd
00:23 < Bradipo> Apparently there is something called systemd...
00:23 < Bradipo> systemd has it's own time synchronizer in it.  And by installing ntp, it went and fiddled with systemd, and then somehow broke the network (because I was doing a remote management via SSH).
00:24 < Bradipo> And of course apt-get couldn't complete all it's triggers because the network dropped and my SSH session timed out.
00:24 < Bradipo> So I fixed it by putting OpenBSD on it.
00:24 < codermattie> Bradipo: good fix
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00:35 < thrig> a) tmux b) testing on a local virt first
00:35 < Bradipo> Yeah, I just never expected Linux to do something so lame as to try to reset the network just for a simple change like adding an NTP package.
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00:35 < Bradipo> Normally I use tmux everywhere, but in this case, tmux was running locally.
00:36 < thrig> ... but then came systemd
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00:36 < codermattie> Bradipo: I used to be able to follow along the progress of linux but now it's so complicated I cant really manage it in detail anymore
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00:37 < Bradipo> If one can call it "progress".
00:37 < codermattie> Bradipo: I cant follow dmesg anymore so I am at the mercy of the distro
00:38 < ssm_> codermattie: alpine brings back some sanity, though make what you will of no default documentation and busybox not being posix compliant (as far as I can tell)
00:39 < codermattie> ssm_: alpine is good for docker images
00:39 < ssm_> alpine is the only linux distribution I want to touch with a 10 foot pole anymore
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00:40 < codermattie> ssm_: I still use linux in places for virtualization and video card support
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00:41 < ssm_> vmm(4) not good enough? :)
00:41 < thrig> I have alpine linux on an old clunker dell hooked up to an old synth
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00:41 < codermattie> ssm_: yeah, i need more, docker mainly
00:41 < thrig> and a vmm virt that hasn't been updated in like forever
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00:42 < codermattie> I need something compatible with AWS Simple Container Service
00:42 < codermattie> and I need qemu
00:43 < ssm_> obsd has qemu, but I think it's lacking some features (like hwaccel or device passthrough for certain devices)
00:43 < codermattie> ssm_: without passthrough its unusable slow, I tried
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00:55 < vortexx> codermattie: to each OS it's purpose, OpenBSD isn't the one for runnign virtual on, in most use cases
00:55 < vortexx> s/runnign/running
00:57 < codermattie> vortexx: thats why I have 8 computers in this room running 9 systems, at least 5 different OS
00:57 < thrig> also, winter heating
00:58 < codermattie> codermattie: If I had my wish it would be getting an electrician to run a 15amp circuit to my office
00:59 < codermattie> I have to share a 15 amp with three rooms
00:59 < thrig> ... and then someone plugs in a vacuum cleaner
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01:00 < codermattie> well my room has a AC unit to cool off all the computers and my wife has a electric radiator because she has lizard genes so its pretty dicy around here
01:01 < codermattie> if I dont sequence the boots after a power out it trips the breaker
01:01 < thrig> I recall office ladies and their space heaters blowing breakers back in the day
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01:02 < phoebos> hi all, having problems getting ipv6 going. i've assigned the static address via ifconfig(8) and added the gateway via route(8) but can't connect to the server over ipv6
01:03 < phoebos> ndp -a says (incomplete) address
01:03 < phoebos> to the gateway
01:09 < phoebos> ok, disabling pfctl fixes it. must have a bad pf.conf
01:12 < vortexx> codermattie: glad to hear it :)
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01:18 < coreystephanphd> Zyxer: codermattie: Calling OpenBSD "boring" is a compliment. It is "boring" because everything works. Installation = Easy. Packages = Easy. Upgrades = Easy. Configuration = Easy. Way easier than any GNU/Linux. And about 1,000 times easier than any proprietary OS. Foolproof.
01:19 < codermattie> coreystephanphd: glad to hear it
01:19 < thrig> takes a special kind of fool to run it
01:19 < coreystephanphd> thrig: You and I are fools.
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01:26 < e54> Hello peeps, Messing with mutt. It has been years. I just cant justify it anymore.
01:27 < codermattie> e54: html mail is the usual, resistance is futile
01:28 < Bradipo> Can't justify what?
01:28 < e54> codermattie: Yes 
01:29 < e54> Bradipo: gnupg is only reason? And thet dont make sense anymore
01:30 < Bradipo> It's a sad story.  Email is in the pits.  Impossible to achieve any kind of privacy.
01:30 < Bradipo> Because people just don't care and they are all using "smart" devices that have little interest in providing privacy.
01:31 < e54> Bradipo: correct. Well kinda. There are other/better choices for secure communication
01:31 < codermattie> signal is pretty good
01:31 < codermattie> crappy ui though
01:32 < uwharrie> with open source clients, servers, and protocols?
01:33 < codermattie> maybe there is somthing
01:34 < ssm_> codermattie: signal is hardcoded to connect to a centralized server last I checked
01:34 < ssm_> don't trust it
01:34 < e54> Not what i was saying. The validity of mutt is fading.
01:35 < codermattie> mostly i use gnupg for code signing because people actually care
01:35 < Bradipo> Well, technically, if the client is doing end-to-end encryption, it doesn't matter if the server is centralized, right?
01:35 < e54> gpg has a uses. no doubt
01:35 < ssm_> can the server read the decrypted messages on either end?
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01:36 < Bradipo> The problem, or challenge, is in finding clients that encrypt before communicating, and doing so securely.
01:36 < codermattie> ssm_: not with end to end
01:37 < codermattie> signal is donation funded and open source
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01:40 < e54> my friends mom is opensource. The point there is ... im being serious. freedom disapears every minute. along with spelling
01:41 < codermattie> e54: you still have hope, time will fix that
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01:49 < e54> codermattie: lol. I'm poking fun at myself mostly.
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01:51 < e54> security in data is always useless
01:53 < e54> I comunicate with fictional friend offline, I slept with his wife? He will sell me
01:54 < e54> In reallity. Can you trust yourself?
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02:02 < vortexx> e54: you're going way offtopic
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02:04 < e54> vortexx: Yes, you bet your arse
02:04 < e54> vortexx: I know bro. Sorry. 
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04:32 < armin> the issues with signal are that it a) is centralized and b) requires you to have a smartphone.
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04:38 < armin> i don't really understand how people with a security-background recommend messengers with a 1:1 binding using phone numbers, to begin with.
04:40 < schillingklaus> I have no $martphone at all
04:42 < quinq> armin, because they're fake
04:42 < quinq> schillingklaus, that's the way to go
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05:30 < IcePic> armin: perhaps there are several dimensions to "security", where anonymity is not always in the same domain?
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05:57 < e54> N
06:01 < e54> and you may ask yourself, my god what have i done.
06:01 < e54> Same as it ever was
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06:08 < quinq> IcePic, I wouldn't want to live in such dimension “you've been securely uniquely identified by our benevolent™ system”
06:13 < IcePic> quinq: what if someone wants to use signal in order to be found, to validate that this receipient is actually this-or-that person/role ?
06:13 < IcePic> I get that all usecases are not like that, but one could still imagine people having different needs/wants while still wanting to be secure
06:14 < quinq> Then use an identification layer
06:14 < quinq> Like an ssh key
06:14 < quinq> Or whatever signing method
06:14 < quinq> But that shouldn't be bound to a third-party network/hardware/whatever
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06:17 < IcePic> I get that "in order to retain anonymity one needs secure methods", but not that it is a 1:1 reverse so that you can't become secure unless you are also anonymous
06:21 < quinq> What are, then, securing, if your security model forces you to be bound to a third-party system over which you have no control?
06:21 < quinq> This is exactly how one can work around security
06:22 < quinq> By crossing the information that was leaked out because it was forcely extracted out this security model
06:23 < quinq> Identification, if opted-in, should be *within* that security model, not *outside* of it
06:24 < quinq> (by within/outside, I mean from an encapsulating point of view, not integrated by the method itself)
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06:36 < renaud> There are always times where you want to trust a third party for convenience
06:37 < renaud> do you have a google or apple account for your phone?
06:37 < renaud> do you have a license to drive?
06:37 < IcePic> quinq: you are saying "A must have property B", but leave out "in order to reach goal C"
06:38 < IcePic> and signal may have different goals than anonymity of their users, perhaps for discovery purposes, perhaps for other more nefarious ones.
06:38 < IcePic> doesn't mean it necessarily is not a secure way of communicating. It's just not aiming for the same stuff as TOR for instance.
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06:40 < renaud> there are more anonymous alternatives to signal, but almost nobody uses them. Also, they are not really newbie friendly.
06:42 < IcePic> threema worked ok, but more or less requires either blind trust (ie, someone emailed me a QR code) or meeting up in person and building a web-of-trust like pgp
06:43 < quinq> renaud, no google account for my “phone” no, that's part of the problem indeed
06:44 < quinq> License to drive, I do, and only assermented state representative can ask me about it
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06:44 < Voyager_MP> pip install --user installes, but the binary dont appreare under .local/bin ..
06:44 < quinq> renaud, sure you can trade off security for convenience
06:44 < quinq> It's not a judgement about your choices
06:44 < Voyager_MP> does anyone know why
06:45 < quinq> It's about the model, mostly forced by companies, not for the love of their users
06:45 < IcePic> Voyager_MP: does pip have a -verbose flag you can run with, to see what it does?
06:46 < Voyager_MP> pip install --verbose --user fish  Using pip 23.2.1 from /usr/local/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip (python 3.10) Requirement already satisfied: fish in ./.local/lib/python3.10/site-packages (1.1) 
06:49 < Voyager_MP> Using pip 23.2.1 from /usr/local/lib/python3.10/site-packages/pip (python 3.10) User install by explicit request Created temporary directory: /tmp/pip-build-tracker-gv3054nx Initialized build tracking at /tmp/pip-build-tracker-gv3054nx Created build tracker: /tmp/pip-build-tracker-gv3054nx Entered build tracker: /tmp/pip-build-tracker-gv3054nx Created temporary directory: /tmp/pip-install-9o8k5tpy
06:49 < Voyager_MP> Created temporary directory: /tmp/pip-ephem-wheel-cache-_h2dk4gk Requirement already satisfied: fish in /home/michel/.local/lib/python3.10/site-packages (1.1) Created temporary directory: /tmp/pip-unpack-oqohuy8v Remote version of pip: 23.3 Local version of pip:  23.2.1 Was pip installed by pip? False Removed build tracker: '/tmp/pip-build-tracker-gv3054nx'
06:49 < Voyager_MP> pip was installed by pip false ?
06:49 < IcePic> I think it says that it is false that pip was installed by pip
06:49 < Voyager_MP> :D
06:52 < IcePic> not very weird, pip will at times try to upgrade itself if it thinks it is needed, but yours probably came with the pkg_add, so "false" seems logical then
06:56 < Voyager_MP> what can I do to fix that ? I clearly dont get it. Sorry
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07:02 < renaud> quinq: that means you somehow trust the state. There is always something you have to trust...
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07:04 < renaud> but it's sad that signal doesn't allow federation (anymore)
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07:06 < renaud> it could also use something else than the phone number like a key for those expert enough to configure that
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07:55 < armin> IcePic: this is dimension 35-C, morty!
07:55  * IcePic drools some
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08:01 < armin> renaud: considering phones, i'm on an iphone 12 currently and my next phone will be a dumbphone again.
08:01 < armin> renaud: the reason in that case is more that i find smartphones too distracting - security being the secondary issue here...
08:04 < armin> regarding signal: any way to use signal on a "normal" laptop, not phone?
08:04 < armin> (on openbsd, obviously)
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08:09 < renaud> you can use signal on a laptop, but it still needs to be linked to a phone number
08:15 < pwr> isn't the signal desktop app electron, and isn't there no electron on openbsd?
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10:01 < Posterdati> thanks openbsd 7.4 -> smtpd[64742]: dkimsign: Can't open key file (...)
10:03 < Posterdati> smtpd broken!
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10:04 < zelest> That's obviously Obama's fault
10:05 < Posterdati> no openbsd fault :)
10:05 < zelest> I just tried to send a mail from my smtpd, using dkimsign and it works perfectly.
10:05 < Posterdati> on 7.3 worked
10:06 < Posterdati> on 7.4 not anymore
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10:09 < Posterdati> nice
10:10 < zelest> Did you upgrade your packages?
10:11 < zelest> Also, look at the permissions of the key file and make sure that smtpd/dkimsign can read it.
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10:12 < Posterdati> zelest: yes
10:12 < Posterdati> zelest: that file is owned by _smtpd._dovecot
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10:14 < Posterdati> it has rxxx
10:14 < zelest> This is mostly a question for #opensmtpd btw, but look at your smtpd.conf and see what the filter is running.
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10:16 < Posterdati> user _smtpd group _smtpd
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10:31 < betabug> user should be _smtpd, no? not smtpd_
10:32 < betabug> ups, wrong #
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10:36 < Posterdati> fixed!
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10:48 < tercaL> Posterdati: How?
10:50 < tercaL> Any idea about this one? https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169748283608890&w=2
10:50 < Posterdati> the directory should be owned by _smtpd._dovecot
10:51 < Posterdati> tercaL: that problem broke my webserver, but it is not related to my opensmtpd one
10:51 < tercaL> by the way, that seems pretty fine idea: https://code.high5.nl/High5/opensmtpdadmin
10:51 < tercaL> Posterdati: Sorry, what problem?
10:52 < Posterdati> ssl does not work 
10:52 < Posterdati> with hunchentoot
10:52 < Posterdati> on 7.3 worked
10:52 < tercaL> Oh, same here. Could you reply on @misc under that mail and let the dev team know?
10:53 < tercaL> Please
10:54 < __giovanni> tercaL: TLSv1.0 and TLSv1.1 have been removed from libssl, could it be related ?
10:54 < tercaL> __giovanni: I've read about that on 74.html page, and no I think, because I use only TLS 1.2 and TLS 1.3.
10:54 < Posterdati> [2023-10-19 05:54:28 [ERROR]] Error while processing connection: The TLS/SSL connection on handle #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X2DDAFBC5C80) has been closed (SSL_get_error: 5). ERR_print_errors():
10:55 < tercaL> Posterdati: That should definitely be posted on misc - imho
10:55 < Posterdati> but there's also a problem with sockets
10:56 < Posterdati> the webserver dies due to unknown socket  problem
10:57 < Posterdati> on 7.3 the same configuration and program worked very well
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10:59 < tercaL> Posterdati: And how will you solve that?
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10:59 < Posterdati> tercaL: I did not
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10:59 < Posterdati> tercaL: my webserver is down now
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11:10 < tercaL> Posterdati: Some bug report, sending some e-mail to the team.... Nothing? :)
11:10 < Posterdati> not for now, I have work to do
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11:25 < welcome> HELO    I need to cvs the source for 7.4. I'm not sure what I should ask for- I think I need to ask for RELEASE or similar 
11:26 < welcome> What should I get if I would like source code for the release 7.4?
11:26 < IcePic> if only obsd had a webpage with help and instructions, and perhaps an FAQ
11:26 < welcome> It does
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11:26 < welcome> I'm reading it : )
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11:27 < IcePic> it would be super awesome if the front page had a "Getting source" heading with links to examples on exactly how to get 7.4
11:27 < welcome> is it the -stable branch I need?
11:27 < IcePic> yes
11:28 < welcome> ok
11:28 < welcome> thankyou
11:30 < welcome> I was told to get this more or less after a brief chat with Theo about a new security mechanism I'm trying to implement
11:31 < welcome> I dunno If I am good enough but I will give it a go
11:32 < welcome> He said he wouldn't do it but that I should try if I think it's worth it
11:32 < welcome> (his way of saying "I won't hold your hand etc")
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11:52 < armin> :)
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12:47 < PyR3X> is there a utility or a method to determine every single file I've touched outside a base install? I'm working on an ansible playbook to provision my server and cannot remember all the changes I've made to the system since the initial install from 6.x
12:48 < sibiria> i think, unfortunately not. because some of the files have creation dates before the release, some are created/updated during install, and some even after that without your interaction
12:48 < sibiria> you'd need a "map" of what's what
12:49 < sibiria> in /var/backups you will find some references, but it's not enough for the entire system
12:50 < sibiria> or rather, it's not accurate enough to spot where and what the differences may be
12:50 < sibiria> only in some cases
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12:56 < CosmicDJ> extract a fresh /etc somewhere and diff -r?
12:57 < sibiria> rather, one made post install
12:57 < sibiria> should work well enough
12:57 < eea> sysclean?
12:57 < sibiria> sysmerge?
12:58 < sibiria> should be some stuff in /var/sysmerge that can also help
12:59 < sibiria> PyR3X: some great advice for the future is to document the installation btw.
12:59 < sibiria> simple bulletpoints go a long way
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13:09 < dansimon> Hi guys, congratulations on a new release!
13:10 < CosmicDJ> dansimon: https://www.openbsd.org/donations.html
13:10 < dansimon> I have a weird kernel compile bug in 7.4 though, I get: make: don't know how to make /usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/amd64/vmm.c (prerequisite of: vmm.o)
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13:11 < dansimon> CosmicDJ: Yes sir, time for a new shirt ;)
13:12 < CosmicDJ> 👍
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13:14 < armin> the new shirts are super cool btw
13:14 < IcePic> dansimon: if you didn't start from a totally clean dir, I would probably clean out the compile dir and restart
13:15 < dansimon> IcePic: Ah! Of course!
13:15 < dansimon> Thank you, that fixed it :)
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13:18 < armin> CosmicDJ: out of curiosity, are you still DJing?
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13:40 < Bradipo> Can relayd.conf use a specific header that a client includes in the HTTP request as part of the hash for the loadbalancer?
13:41 < Bradipo> e.g. if the client provides a headed X-identifier that uniquely identifies that client, can relayd use it to inform the hash?
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13:46 < Bradipo> I think I figured it out: match request header hash "X-identifier"
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14:36 < Bradipo> Apparently this doesn't work on OpenBSD: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1205722/how-do-i-get-monotonic-time-durations-in-python
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14:36 < Bradipo> There is no librt.so.1, so it fails.
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14:37 < Bradipo> Maybe I'll try something else.
14:41 < Bradipo> Looks like there is a monotonic package.
14:42 < IcePic> man clock_gettime says there is a monotonic timer to be read on obsd, so perhaps python is just overcomplicating it?
14:43 < Bradipo> Well, no, I think it was just the particular suggestion that was incomplete.
14:43 < Bradipo> But yes, it's also possible that python overcomplicates it.
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14:59 < seninha> Hi, I need to buy an USB Ethernet adapter. Which ones are known to not work on OpenBSD and I should avoid?
14:59 < seninha> I know axe(4) lists a few adapters, but such thing is such a hit-or-miss when buying physically on local electronic retail stores (and their site shows no relevant information on the products)
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15:02 < Bradipo> seninha: I don't know what does *not* work, but I do know that my Dell DBJBCBC064 works.
15:02 < Bradipo> I'm not a fan of Dell hardware, but at least it works.
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15:08 < seninha> Bradipo, does it use axe(4) or ure(4) or any other interface?
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15:18 < seninha> I'm checking this one (site in portuguese) which has a good price. But being bundled "Window Installation CD" sounds like a red flag: https://www.kalunga.com.br/prod/adaptador-de-rede-usb-rj45-macho-md9-cx-1-un/162215
15:18 < seninha> s/bundled/& with/
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15:19 < onebitboy> "USB 2.0 Full-Speed (12 Mbps)" should be another red flag
15:19 < sibiria> seninha: axe/axen are sort of hit or miss for unknown reasons. i have two that work well (these days) and one that's terrible
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15:20 < sibiria> mos(4) devices are said to be more reliable, but i've yet to come across a vendor specifying they use those chips
15:21 < Bradipo> seninha: Looks like it's ure0
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15:23 < seninha> This Multilaser one, WI272, also has a good price: https://suporte.multilaser.com.br/produtos/cabo-conversor-usb-am-x-rj45-femea-wi272
15:24 < seninha> What sucks is that International brands devices that are known to work (Lenovo, DLink, Dell, etc) are criminally expensive here, while Brazilian brands like Multilaser (and Chinese bootleg/brandless ones) are more buyable, but there's almost zero info on them, even on official sources.
15:25 < seninha> s/Multilaser/Multi/ # https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilaser
15:27 < seninha> This WI272 is R$ 66.10, while the DLink one listed on manual is R$ 436,90! (R$ 1 ~ € 0.19)
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15:39 < seninha> I could not find dmesg logs on OpenBSD about this Multi{laser,} device. But I could find a local Linux forum about someone having trouble with it on Linux. They posted their lshw: "/0/100/1c.2/0 enp2s0 network RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller"
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15:39 < seninha> Seems to not work on OpenBSD as well.
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15:45 < sibiria> axe/axen devices are usually <$5 a piece. you could score a couple on ebay and likely get a good one
15:45 < sibiria> i would aim for something that isn't super slim, to up the odds that it has a socket with properly dimensions isolation transformer so you can use more than 1m long cable
15:46 < sibiria> dimensioned*
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15:50 < seninha> sibiria: what sucks more is that i need one for tomorow for a event at university. So the quickiest is to go to a store and buy one irl.
15:51 < sibiria> ah. yeah
15:51 < sibiria> good luck :)
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17:55 < seninha> Back from the market. So... I just bought the only one(!) USB ethernet adapter model i could find in the entire store. I plugged it and it's a cdce(4) device.
17:56 < seninha> ifconfig(8) lists it as cdce0, but shows no inet for it. Only the mac address.
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17:57 < sibiria> generic/standard usb profile is good. with some luck you get it to run
17:58 < sibiria> seninha: nothing happens if you configure it using ifconfig?
17:59 < sibiria> e.g. "ifconfig cdce0 inet 10.0.0.1"
17:59 < sibiria> and "up"
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17:59 < seninha> \o/
17:59 < seninha> used autoconf
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18:00 < seninha> brb
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18:05 < seninha> It's working. I just needed to manually add the default route via the interface on route(8).
18:05 < sibiria> great
18:07 < vortexx> cdce is usually a usb bridge to wireless modems... but it's possible the device isn't reporting properly. At least it works I guess?
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18:08 < seninha> But heck, what a cheap thing!
18:08 < seninha> The socket is loose on the case. It easily slides into the case while pluging the cable.
18:10 < seninha> vortexx: this one is an USB Ethernet adapter. And is working.
18:10 < thrig> loose tcp sockets. very dangerous
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18:12 < seninha> wrong layer XP
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18:15 < vortexx> seninha: yes I read your previous posts, you got lucky at the store
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18:16 < seninha> yeah, i imagined it would be a hit-or-miss purchase
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19:02 < Bradipo> How do I get sort(1) to sort float numbers correctly?
19:03 < avemestr> -n doesnt work?
19:03 < Bradipo> Well, maybe I'm doing it wrong.  I have output that looks like: ELAPSED: 0.1234
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19:03 < Bradipo> I'm passing through: sort -k 1n
19:04 < Bradipo> But 9.x is the last thing sorted, and 42.x is somewhere in the middle.
19:05 < Posterdati> hi
19:05 < Bradipo> lol
19:05 < Posterdati> so sbcl isn't usable on openbsd again :)
19:05 < Bradipo> Ok, I was doing it wrong.  I'm so used to thinking in 0 indexed that really I needed "sort -k 2n"
19:06 < avemestr> So you sorted many "ELAPSED"? :-)
19:06 < Bradipo> Yep.
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19:17 < Posterdati> hi
19:17 < Posterdati> so the fact that a release upgrade breaks thing is very odd
19:18 < tux0r> it sometimes does
19:19 < tux0r> new ABIs, for example
19:19 < Posterdati> this make openbsd a not professional tool
19:19 < tux0r> maybe sbcl isn't a professional tool. :p
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19:20 < Posterdati> no, the same application works on linux and worked on 7.3
19:20 < avemestr> Posterdati: Did you do pkg_add -u after sysupgrade?
19:20 < Posterdati> and the problem is the same with ecl
19:20 < Posterdati> avemestr: yes
19:20 < Posterdati> for the nth time
19:20 < tux0r> if sbcl on openbsd stops working, you might want to inform the sbcl package maintainer.
19:20 < tux0r> not an openbsd issue.
19:21 < Posterdati> this is not only sbcl, but ecl too?
19:21 < Posterdati> quite strange
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19:21 < tux0r> similar internals, i guess
19:21 < Posterdati> no
19:21 < Posterdati> they are quite different
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19:22 < Bradipo> What is sbcl/ecl?
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19:22 < tux0r> common lisp interpreters/compilers, basically
19:22 < Bradipo> Ahh.
19:23 < tux0r> sbcl is pretty solid and i did a few things with it on various systems
19:23 < tux0r> openbsd 7.4 - not yet.
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19:32 < thrig> sbcl compiled programs can still get messed up on 7.4, probably due to the recent userland memory things
19:36 < tux0r> thrig: good to know. i was wondering whether i should migrate my only omnios (~ solaris) server to openbsd. it runs a lisp tool as a cronjob. i'll probably wait...
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19:39 < thrig> depends on the tool, https://thrig.me/src/marad.git has trouble compiled while other CLI tools do not
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19:43 < tux0r> basically, a website scraper.
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19:57 < moviuro> hi all, igmpproxy fails to stay running on 7.4. Never had an issue on 7.3, the service just stops running after a certain time. launching with igmpproxy_flags="-v /etc/igmpproxy.conf" doesn't yield any usable info in /var/log/daemon (no crash message or error)
19:57 < moviuro> https://x0.at/JF6l.txt
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20:08 < Bradipo> Looks like I might need to tune relayd in login.conf?
20:08 < Bradipo> I'm seeing: buffer event timeout, GET: Resource temporarily unavailable
20:08 < Bradipo> And also: buffer event timeout, GET: Undefined error: 0
20:09 < Bradipo> Though, I'm not sure what needs tweaking.
20:09 < Bradipo> kern.nfiles is 541.  kern.nprocs is 76.
20:09 < Bradipo> Doesn't seem like it's too loaded.
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20:10 < Bradipo> pf?
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20:13 < Bradipo> Hmm, kern.somaxconn is 128 by default it seems.
20:13 < Bradipo> Not sure if that's an issue.
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20:15 < Bradipo> tcp backlog defaults to 10... maybe I should bump that up.
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20:52 < ssm_> okay, freeze on resume on framework laptop is definitely a 7.4 issue
20:52 < thrig> I set machdep.lidaction=0 years ago
20:53 < ssm_> I like to keep my sessions when I have to travel to and from places
20:54 < ssm_> I have machdep.lidaction set to 0 too, but more because suspending every time I close the lid is annoying, and sometimes unreliable on this laptop
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21:08 < PapaChub> pflog question: I have a `pf.conf` that creates an `anchor "sec_sshd" all` rule for SEC, then uses a bunch of `match in on $int_if proto tcp from any to port $egress_tcp tag EGRESS_OK` and `block in log quick on $int_if proto tcp from any !tagged EGRESS_OK flags S/SA` to block the rest -- and IT WORKS GREAT, but...
21:08 < PapaChub> My problem is, `tcpdump -n -e -ttt -i pflog0` reports "rule 91/(match) block in on re1" and `pfctl -vvsr` reports that "rule 91" is the *ANCHOR* statement, not the "block"
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21:12 < PapaChub> If I rearrange things so I define the `sec_sshd` anchor later, then it reports the right line, but I really want to drop those packets sooner, rather than later.
21:15 < PapaChub> The only reasonably related thing I could find on Google was this email from 2018: https://www.mail-archive.com/tech@openbsd.org/msg44364.html
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21:22 < dayid> PapaChub: I'm not sure if there's a question there?
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21:23 < dayid> I've run into the same with anchors, then just have to expand and look at like `pfctl -a anchor -s rules` (e.g., I hit this for like authpf with `doas pfctl -a "authpf/auth(46065)" -s rules`)
21:25 < PapaChub> One question would be, is there a reason it's not showing the right rule?  And is there something I can do to fix it?  Or is my next step `sendbug`?
21:25 < dayid> when/if it has further issues I usually just resort to having another pflog interface to separate it out and log there
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21:26 < dayid> May need real output to understand what you're saying, but the rule being the anchor is pretty normal to me so I don't get the concern.
21:26 < PapaChub> `pfctl -a sec_sshd -vvsr` has only one rule: `@0 block drop quick from <sec_sshd:913> to any`
21:26 < dayid> ok
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21:28 < PapaChub> I was hoping to use `/var/log/pflog` to report which hosts were making non-approved connections.  It would be nice to be able to cross-reference which rule was actually being triggered.....  (Currently it makes it look like SEC was flagging them, which it's not.)
21:29 < dayid> So it's _not_ actually being diagnose by your anchor?
21:29 < dayid> err --- not diagnose by/hitting the
21:30 < PapaChub> It passes /through/ the anchor, but it's not one of the 913 addresses in that table, no.  (Otherwise it would show up as "rule 91.sec_sshd.0")
21:30 < dayid> e.g., for authpf, my -vvsr shows like "@99 anchor "authpf/8" all"; I've never seen that reported by tcpdump/pflog unless it is hitting one of the rules within the anchor
21:31 < PapaChub> I suspect the "match ... tag TAG" and "block log !tagged TAG" are tickling it
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21:32 < dayid> So your "real rule" doing the block is therefore somewhere _after_ the anchor? andwith quick?
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21:34 < PapaChub> Yes, and yes
21:34 < dayid> interesting
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21:36 < dayid> Can't say I understand it, but trying to exhibit it more simply may be good and likely a mailing list type thing (e.g., in similar fashion of example as that archive message you found).
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21:42 < PapaChub> I'm starting to think maybe that patch never got applied...  (Or something else caused a different regression)
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21:56 < clemens3> why is it that pgp is not popular within openbsd? to complex? insecure? or because of gnu__pg?
21:57 < codermattie> clemens3: you mean the proprietary one?
21:57 < clemens3> pgp/gpg
21:57 < clemens3> linux world uses gpg
21:57 < clemens3> pgp is just the protocol?
21:57 < uwharrie> what does openbsd lack that PGP provides?
21:57 < clemens3> web of trust
21:58 < clemens3> you have this signify or what
21:58 < clemens3> but i still have to rely on https to download the pub file and trust it
22:00 < phy1729> Once. After that the previous release key signs the next one or two
22:00 < uwharrie> and the files the keys are distributed in are checksummed
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22:02 < thrig> I use gpg for email and other things on openbsd
22:02 < clemens3> yeah, so with gpg i can follow a chain of signatures to a person i know/trust 
22:02 < clemens3> don't need a first time to trust
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22:04 < codermattie> its not hard to get gpg
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22:07 < clemens3> ok, rephrasing the question. Why does openbsd not use gpg to sign the pub files (so that you can follow a chain to somone you know)?
22:08 < clemens3> after all you have gpg
22:08 < phy1729> It's not in base
22:08 < vortexx> mh nginx stopped working as a reverse proxy for me when upgrading to 7.4 (nginx got bumped from 1.22 to 1.24). Going to have to investigate. Anyone else had this issue?
22:08 < uwharrie> because the project apparently doesn't see value in trying to establish and maintain the web of trust necessary vs using something simple like signify
22:09 < clemens3> oki
22:11 < uwharrie> In my experience, those deeply nested webs of trust never got filled out, despite efforts to have key signing parties at conferences, conventions, meetups, etc
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23:30 < jmcunx> clemens3: for why signify, see http://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan-signify.html
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23:38 < wepy> hey--is it possible to install OpenBSD over the existing version, but keep the disk layout?
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23:40 < jmcunx> I believe so, I did that years ago and the instal hardly ever changed since
23:42 < thrig> changes to the installer?! /me clutches perls
23:43 < wepy> heh
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23:44 < wepy> it would be cool to have like a config for the installer so it could be done automatically..
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23:44 < wepy> anyone running apple silicon openbsd?
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23:45 < uwharrie> like https://man.openbsd.org/autoinstall ?
23:45 < wepy> kinda wondering how the kernel is... is there armv8.5 pointer auth enabled everywhere?
23:45 < codermattie> wepy: I tried with parallels and a previous openbsd but it would not boot
23:45 < wepy> whaaa..
23:46 < mystic> hello guys, I opened a bug on bugs@openbsd.org that concern some strange behaviour of chrome/firefox. They don't display sub-comments on youtube video. Anyone have the same problem ?
23:46 < mystic> this is the bug https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-bugs&m=169765467223220&w=2
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23:47 < codermattie> mystic: its probably the user agent string , not a openbsd bug
23:47 < wepy> i wish there was other arm 8.5 hardware out there, but apple's the only game in town.. i think they're rolling out arm v9 soon too
23:47 < codermattie> wepy: AWS has its own arm chip
23:47 < wepy> all these operating systems are gonna have a shot at using the new security features.. can't wait
23:48 < wepy> googled a little.. says it's a72
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23:48 < wepy> you can get other arm v8 stuff, just not 8.3 or 8.5 anywhere..
23:48 < mystic> codermattie: what u mean ? u mean that youtube doesn't like the _openbsd_ user-agent string ?
23:48 < codermattie> rasberry pi is arm if my memory serves
23:49 < codermattie> mystic: just a guess but the servers typically tailor the served content to the user agent string
23:49 < mystic> codermattie: omg.. ok, I try to change it..
23:50 < clemens3> jmcunx: ok, the freebsd key example was funny
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23:54 < xse> mystic: i've seen that behavior on other systems. i guess it's more related to how youtube works like your browser makes a request to get the comment, it fails for X reason on youtube's side like cache issues or smth, check out devtools while that happens (network activity/console logs/..) highly doubt it's openbsd related
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 20 00:00:23 2023