--- Log opened Tue Oct 24 00:00:47 2023
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00:34 < vortexx> echelon: man securitylevel
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03:18 < pardis> s/ity/e/
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03:48 < begriffs> I'm trying to make a crude mailing list using opensmtpd. I have an alias `list: a@foo.com, b@bar.com` to forward messages from list@example.com to those addresses. I'd also like to allow only those addresses to send *to* the list. Is there a way to store the list member addresses in a single file that both the aliases and smtpd.conf match rules could consult? So I can change the members in one file, reload, and all would be good?
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05:31 < echelon> hi, does anyone have go installed on their system? i'm trying to do `go get -u golang.org/x/sys` and i get back go: golang.org/x/sys@v0.13.0: Get "https://proxy.golang.org/golang.org/x/sys/@v/v0.13.0.mod": remote error: tls: handshake failure"
05:33 < echelon> when i curl the url myself, it works fine
05:34 < IcePic> my 7.4 octeons have no issue with that
05:34 < IcePic>  go get -u golang.org/x/sys
05:34 < IcePic> go: downloading golang.org/x/sys v0.13.0
05:34 < IcePic> go: upgraded golang.org/x/sys v0.3.0 => v0.13.0
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05:36 < echelon> ugh, thanks.. don't know what the deal is
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05:42 < echelon> o
05:43 < echelon> i'm wondering if i'm missing any dependencies
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05:52 < pardis> "tls: handshake failure" sounds like the least dependency-related error message possible
05:53 < IcePic> yes, my initial guess was "bad clock makes the cert invalid"
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05:56 < echelon> ooh
05:57 < echelon> hmm clock looks fine
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05:58 < echelon> if clock was the issue it would fail with curl as well wouldn't it
05:59 < IcePic> sure, unless you somehow have -k behaviour on curl by default
06:01 < echelon> i didn't tweak with any of the defaults
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06:03 < echelon> and it would be bad practice if the packaged curl was doing that
06:03 < IcePic> proxy.golang.org resolves to diff ips for diff. computers, perhaps you hit a bad backend there
06:03 < IcePic> $ host proxy.golang.org
06:03 < IcePic> proxy.golang.org has address 142.250.74.49
06:03 < IcePic> proxy.golang.org has IPv6 address 2a00:1450:400f:801::2011
06:03 < IcePic> -vs- 
06:03 < IcePic> host proxy.golang.org
06:03 < IcePic> proxy.golang.org has address 64.233.185.141
06:03 < IcePic> proxy.golang.org has IPv6 address 2607:f8b0:4002:c09::8d
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06:04 < IcePic> not at all impossible one or more of their ips has a bad cert, and you run into it with go but not curl
06:04 < echelon> i mean, i'm attempting it repeatedly, it should round robin to a good one eventually?
06:05 < echelon> proxy.golang.org has address 172.217.164.17
06:05 < IcePic> the "go env" that goes GOPROXY='https://proxy.golang.org,direct'
06:05 < quinq> No, round robin is not guaranteed in life
06:05 < IcePic> could perhaps be set (temporarily) to 'direct' only which probably mimics more what curl would do?
06:07 < IcePic> or setting "GONOPROXY" to a value that makes it not proxy at all, dunno
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06:10 < echelon> setting it to direct did give me this: go: golang.org/x/sys@v0.13.0: unrecognized import path "golang.org/x/sys": https fetch: Get "https://golang.org/x/sys?go-get=1": remote error: tls: handshake failure :/
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06:16 < IcePic> similar error report closed with "probably your network" -> https://github.com/golang/go/issues/59259
06:19 < echelon> i don't know how considering i can curl and install packages -_-
06:20 < IcePic> perhaps tcpdump the two types of connections and see if anything differs?
06:20 < IcePic> like v4 -vs- v6 if you have ipv6
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06:20 < echelon> i configured ipv6 to no when i installed openbsd
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06:25 < echelon> i don't know if running it in a vm would cause this
06:26 < ivandragomije> i upgraded to 7.4 and now i can't seem to access my yubikey, does my user need some additional groups now?
06:26 < IcePic> not in itself, but it does get to have all the quirks of the VM host applied, if any
06:27 < ivandragomije> i see it in dmesg when i plug it in but personalization-gui says it's not plugged in, for root it does but not for my user
06:28 < IcePic> ivandragomije: can you see an entry in /dev related to it just after inserting it? Then you could check the perms for that entry
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06:34 < ivandragomije> IcePic: i see, yes /dev/fido/* is accessibile by wheel, but ugen* and uhid* are not
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06:36 < ivandragomije> strangely yubikey manager (ykman) show info about the device as well
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06:43 < ivandragomije> other than figuring out the obvious _shutdown group, where would i read about the other/new groups?
06:44 < IcePic> I think it should have been in 74.html if it was a new requirement, or upgrade74.html
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06:44 < IcePic> but it could possibly have been an older error that got "fixed" when you upgraded?
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06:47 < ivandragomije> IcePic: yea, it does seem like it :) i'll dig around a bit, thanks for the hint
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06:48 < IcePic> ivandragomije: I mean, I have no idea of your history, but if I was fumbling around with things like yubikeys, it would not be 1005 unthinkable doing some chmod/chowns and then forgetting about it because it made the key work and I went on to the rest of "how to use this #€%#€%# device" 
06:48 < IcePic> 100%
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06:54 < ivandragomije> IcePic: hah yes, i see you point but it was not the case with this machine, i installed 7.2 got the tools, started pcscd, plugged the thing in and it worked flawlesly
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06:55 < ivandragomije> did a sysupgrade to 7.3, worked as before, did a sysupgrade to 7.4 and it stopped
06:55 < ivandragomije> i'll try on a clean install as it's not 100% unthinkable i did actually forgot about something :)
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07:21 < echelon> could it be ulimit?
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11:44 < Zyxer> Ok so sorry about asking about this again, because I have gotten different answers
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11:45 < Zyxer> After sysupgrade and reboot I can't syspatch
11:45 < Zyxer> syspatch: Error retrieving https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/syspatch/7.4/macppc/SHA256.sig: 404 Not Found
11:46 < Zyxer> This is on iMac G3 MacPPC image. Am I supposed to upgrade the old way or manually or wait 3 weeks?
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11:47 < brynet> macppc doesn't receive syspatches, only amd64/i386 and arm64: https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq10.html#Patches
11:47 < brynet> You'll have to apply errata patches yourself, or build -stable.
11:48 < coreystephanphd> brynet: Could Zyxer run -current with sysupgrade for snapshots? Sounds like a desktop setup.
11:50 < IcePic> sysugrade -s is a good way to follow snapshots, yes
11:51 < coreystephanphd> ^ specifically on macppc
11:51 < brynet> assuming they want to follow -current, and are aware that snapshots aren't built as regularly on slower archs, especially packages.
11:51 < coreystephanphd> Zyxer: There you go :)
11:52 < brynet> (7.4 powerpc packages aren't even out yet, FYI)
11:52 < Zyxer> How do I build stable? I assume that includes building the kernel, and in that case I can debloat it while doing it, no?
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11:54 < Zyxer> https://openbsd.org/stable.html
11:54 < Zyxer> No upgrade74
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11:54 < Zyxer> Nvm, thanks, I found documentation
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11:58 < Zyxer> So sysupgrade -s if I understood it correctly?
11:59 < IcePic> yes, good way to keep snaps uptodate
12:00 < Zyxer> And after that just reboot and sysmerge and all that?
12:00 < IcePic> it reboots when sets are down
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12:12 < struchu> an
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12:17 < Zyxer> syspatch: Unsupported release: 7.4-current
12:18 < Zyxer> Is that supposed to happen after the sysupgrade -s?
12:18 < Zyxer> I have no issue leaving my desktop to compile things for 3 days if needed
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12:20 < Zyxer> Ah, maybe not needed to syspatch when sysupgrade -s, pkg_add -Uu werks now
12:21 < Zyxer> Thanks!
12:21 < IcePic> syspatch is for people following stable, getting only small fixes and updates, sysugrade replaces/updates the lot
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12:21 < Zyxer> Oh, MacPPC doesn't follow stable it is just snapshot?
12:23 < IcePic> noone builds stable patches for 32bit ppc, that is true
12:23 < IcePic> snapshots gets built for all platforms, at varying speeds
12:23 < IcePic> all builds are always native so it takes very long on the slowest platforms
12:24 < Zyxer> So if I set up a MacPPC-32 bit VM just to build shit I may be able to contribute to that aspect?
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12:24 < Zyxer> Or is there some limit making it impossible to build in a VM or something?
12:25 < IcePic> no, it's quite possible to build yourself, its more of a trust issue to sign and redistribute $random-persons binaries
12:26 < Zyxer> What if I setup or give hardware for that purpose? I have a bonus ryzen 2400G, and ryzen 3600, those are just collecting dust
12:26 < Zyxer> I can probs find old PSU and MotherBoard to donate 
12:26 < IcePic> also, I think doing heavy builds is slightly frowned upon in VMs, since VMs often present a simplified view of the hw and the world, so if all one does with a platform is running it in a VM, it could well end up being only usable in such a VM, and obsd does not want to end up there.
12:27 < Zyxer> (Yea I forgot that I am just a random person online lmoa)
12:27 < IcePic> if a platform is no longer usable natively, it will be left
12:27 < IcePic> where "usable" can mean "can't buy such hw or spare parts for it"
12:27 < Zyxer> Oh
12:28 < Zyxer> Ok, I see. So... If I can get my hands on a more powerful MacPPC 32-bit and donate would it be used to build stable?
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12:29 < Zyxer> I really don't want to see a day where I have to abandon my iMac as long as it works
12:30 < Zyxer> Well, I guess I could use an old OpenBSD image my original 7.3 CD should still work. Although I would need to make packages bundle in it since repo might get shut down 
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12:36 < pardis> please stop doing pkg_add -Uu
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12:37 < pardis> -U is meaningless if you don't provide any package names, and redundant in combination with -u
12:37 < Zyxer> Oh, thanks
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15:09 < echelon> IcePic: amazing, i've done nearly two identical installs of openbsd, in the same hypervisor, and one works and one doesn't when i do `go get -u golang.org/x/sys`
15:10 < echelon> with regard to the tls errror
15:10 < echelon> and as a matter of fact, the time is actually off on the system where it's working
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15:12 < echelon> it's showing me the utc time, with wrong time zone
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17:34 < Bradipo> I have a process that is failing with shmget.
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17:34 < Bradipo> 24/10/2023 11:26:31 shmget: No space left on device
17:35 < Bradipo> I can see a bunch of shared memory segments, but there are no processes actively using them as far as I can tell.
17:35 < Bradipo> Anyway to clear them (other than reboot)?
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17:36 < Bradipo> ipcrm....
17:36 < Bradipo> Maybe that will work.
17:37 < uwharrie> Bradipo: ipcrm
17:37 < Bradipo> Yeah, I just found/remembered ipcrm.
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19:41 < V-T60> Hello. Why do I have ssl error on every site in links?
19:41 < V-T60> did i break openssl somehow?
19:42 < V-T60> and also, when i run neomutt from my terminal, all symbols are ?????
19:42 < V-T60> these should be cyrillic letters
19:42 < uwharrie> description of first issue is too vague to have a valid response, second issue sounds like you're missing a font
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19:45 < V-T60> uwharrie: but before i run: ``` $ neomutt ''' it works
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19:45 < V-T60> so with setxkbmap us,ua -option grp:ctrl_shift_toggle i can press cyrillic buttons
19:45 < V-T60> and see them
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19:46 < uwharrie> that's manipulating the keyboard, unrelated to the display of characters or your locale
19:46 < V-T60> but in neomutt i can only get names starting with \
19:46 < V-T60> u+something
19:46 < V-T60> well
19:47 < uwharrie> neomutt could be using the wrong locale or the messages could be specifying it incorrectly
19:47 < V-T60> uhwarrie: btw in iridium i haven't noticed this problem with SSL
19:47 < V-T60> yeah, wrong locale can be the reason
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20:08 < dostoyevsky2> > OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are only 7000 users of OpenBSD.
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20:11 < pardis> sounds like something Theo would say
20:11 < pardis> unnamed source hits the nail on the head once again
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20:12 < dostoyevsky2> Just an odd quote I guess from a page where they ported pledge to linux: https://justine.lol/pledge/
20:12 < ssm_> there are many more users of openbsd if you consider the portable projects like ssh and tmux
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20:13 < pardis> the target of the "only 7000 users" link is a page quoting a troll post which makes that claim
20:13 < pardis> well-researched article
20:13 < dostoyevsky2> pardis: and that troll post is from 2002, right?
20:13 < pardis> ah, didn't even notice that
20:13 < ssm_> is there a number for unique downloads of openbsd install images?
20:13 < ssm_> yearly
20:13 < ssm_> closest I think you could get to a reliable number
20:14 < ssm_> though that excludes existing users
20:14 < quinq> That's kind of what I've seen from this .lol website
20:14 < ssm_> or users that don't upgrade between releases
20:14 < pardis> there can be no such list, because of CDNs and mirrors
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20:14 < pardis> and anyone can run a private mirror for an organisation, in theory
20:15 < pardis> furthermore, it isn't very interesting to anyone doing any useful work on OpenBSD how many users there are
20:15 < pardis> they have more important concerns
20:16 < quinq> Like porting ZFS to OpenBSD
20:17 < myappie> quinq: That's a great idea
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20:19  * myappie adds it to the todo-list together with GPU drivers and pfbadhost2
20:19 < Bradipo> justine is t he same person that wrote the "actually portable executable".  Haha, nice.
20:19 < myappie> quinq: What else would you like to see ported?
20:20 < quinq> myappie, is it cristmas already?
20:20 < myappie> (please don't say jails lol)
20:20 < quinq> Bradipo, sarcasm? ^^
20:20 < pardis> I assume you are aware of the history of this discussion and the numerous reasons why such a patch would not be accepted even if the work were done
20:20 < uwharrie> why bother being a jails pest when you can be a docker pest?
20:20 < Bradipo> quinq: No, not intended to be sarcastic.  Interesting note only.
20:20 < myappie> uwharrie: haha
20:21 < quinq> That was very interesting then, thanks
20:21 < Bradipo> I think anyone that can figure out the "actually portable executable" interface is pretty credible.
20:21 < quinq> On what topic?
20:21 < Bradipo> https://justine.lol/ape.html
20:22 < quinq> Ah, you meant she's credible on the thing she wrote
20:22 < Bradipo> But justine's article on pledge is also interesting---getting pledge on Linux seems to be a joke against Linux.
20:22 < Bradipo> Yes.
20:22 < quinq> I guess I'll agree with that tautology then
20:22 < myappie> Every time I hear the word Docker I get a little bit more depressed
20:22 < pardis> this is an actmally pdrtable execmtable
20:22 < myappie> And then I spam them with https://medium.com/@brucedandbattered/openbsd-vs-docker-and-linux-deploying-ruby-on-rails-in-production-320c90bcb934
20:22 < quinq> haha
20:22 < thrig> some have complained that security frameworks on linux are hell
20:24 < ssm_> myappie: why are they using AI art for openbsd in that article
20:24 < ssm_> https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1400/format:webp/1*SYmP3EW8UsecgGgaIX_TYg.png
20:25 < myappie> ssm_: I was lazy :-)
20:25 < quinq> Because then you don't need to get creative :D
20:25 < ssm_> you ever just wear 2 pairs of sunglasses
20:25 < quinq> haha
20:26 < quinq> Well, it looks like a pair of sunglasses, and a spare eye-patch, just in case
20:26 < myappie> You'll have to ask the AI (Dreambooth :D)
20:28 < ssm_> the closer I look the more I realize it's all AI art
20:28 < myappie> Unfortunately you can't. But like quinq pointed out, it'd be awesome if I could have the GPU port ready by Christmas :thumbsup:
20:28 < ssm_> first image got me, but then I noticed some things that were off
20:28 < myappie> ssm_: AI art is like, if you're a shitty designer to begin with, it's still gonna be shitty with AI.
20:29 < dostoyevsky2> quinq: didn't the OpenBSD devs say they don't like zfs because the source code contains like half of a solaris kernel that they kind of emulate for zfs and that makes the code very hard to audit
20:30 < ssm_> that and the license
20:30 < Bradipo> quinq: I suppose what I'm saying is that just because the first paragraph mentions an arguably inaccurate statement about the number of OpenBSD users doesn't mean the rest of the article is garbage.
20:31 < ssm_> someone was trying to port hammer2fs to openbsd several years ago, guess it didn't get anywhere
20:32 < quinq> dostoyevsky2, I don't know really, to be honest, but iirc it was also that the VFS isn't ready for interfacing with zfs base and the modifications would be non trivial
20:32 < Bradipo> The first paragraph is actually sarcasm, or parody.
20:32 < quinq> Na, Bradipo, it was rather about the general tone of the website
20:32 < Bradipo> So is the second.  It's making fun of how lame linux is that it cannot get something as simple as pledge.
20:33 < quinq> That, most of it is pretty obnoxious to me
20:33 < quinq> anyway :)
20:34 < Bradipo> Yeah, definitely an odd writing style.
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20:34 < Bradipo> And, I suppose given the style, it's just as likely that the page is making fun of OpenBSD; projecting some kind of hidden claim that OpenBSD relies too much on pledge() for "security".
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20:35 < dostoyevsky2> ssm_: hammer2fs reminds me of ceph.. 
20:35 < Bradipo> I think it's more likely that it is just exploring the implications of pledge().
20:36 < Bradipo> Anyway, since we're talking about filesystems, what about ReiserFS? :-)
20:36 < dostoyevsky2> Bradipo: It has jail builtin...
20:36 < Bradipo> Haha.
20:37 < ssm_> most linux people I speak to look down on openbsd for being a primitive luddite OS (IE no ibm/systemd, zfs, ext4, iproute2, procfs, kernel modules, [insert linuxism here])
20:37 < Bradipo> I suppose people may be afraid to use ReiserFS for fear of also going to jail.
20:38 < dostoyevsky2> ssm_: I keep reading that OpenBSD is commonly used as an OS for <1Gbit routers, like Juniper....  But that's not my use case at all
20:39 < ssm_> "openbsd, you mean that firewall os?"
20:39 < CNOT> it is totally kickass for being a firewall imho
20:40 < CNOT> and ultimate server for darknet/cipherspace-fashinistas
20:41 < myappie> CNOT: I think jails are better for darknet
20:41 < myappie> Btw anybody on Imgur and mind upvoting my Linux Sucks music video? https://imgur.com/gallery/t3Tviio
20:41 < myappie> lol
20:41 < quinq> jails are for criminals
20:41 < thrig> and monopoly players
20:41 < quinq> true ^^
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20:47 < phy1729> myappie: please don't ask for upvotes here
20:48 < CNOT> is it possible to spread the intr load for handling intertube NIC over more than one CPU? or does it always use the same CPU for the interrupt
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20:57 < ssm_> anyone ever find a solution to screen tearing in mupdf
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21:50 < ssm_> malloc now being able to check for memory leaks is my favorite 7.4 feature so far
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21:51 < ssm_> don't need valgrind anymore
21:52 < ssm_> at least until something causes a memory leak that isn't malloc
21:54 < codermattie> its definitely a good step forward
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22:11 < emmanuelux_> hello on hyper-v, i dont see more than one cpu, sysctl hw.ncpufound => 2, sysctl -n hw.ncpuonline => 1, i have break a config file or kernel config ?
22:12 < ssm_> any lightweight ports that can convert docx to another format (pdf, txt, etc)? (don't say libreoffice)
22:12 < ssm_> tried pandoc but it doesn't seem to work for docx
22:12 < ssm_> pandoc: pdflatex: createProcess: exec: invalid argument (Bad file descriptor)
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22:14 < ssm_> `find /usr/ports/ -type f -name DESCR -exec grep -il docx {} +` returns textproc/docx2txt and textproc/pandoc, maybe I can pipe those two together into a pdf
22:16 < ssm_> "Pandoc is a command-line tool that can convert between numerous markup and word processing formats, including, but not limited to, various flavors of Markdown, HTML, LaTeX and Word docx." guess it's a bug?
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22:19 < codermattie> ssm_: you can strace it
22:19 < codermattie> ssm_: its probably just missing a helper program
22:19 < ssm_> strace? you mean ktrace?
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22:19 < codermattie> ssm_: whatever traces system calls
22:20 < codermattie> ssm_: it should show the bad exec
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22:20 < ssm_> ktrace -tc I believe
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22:27 < ssm_>  41472 pandoc   RET   fcntl -1 errno 25 Inappropriate ioctl for device
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22:28 < ssm_> lotta those
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22:35 < ssm_>  41472 ktrace   CALL  execve(0x796122216390,0x796122216988,0x7961222169b0)\n 41472 ktrace   RET   execve -1 errno 2 No such file or directory
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22:36 < ssm_> bunch of these in a row with the same addresses and then execve JUSTRETURN
22:40 < thrig> the ioctl might be a "is this a tty?" check
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23:07 < xse> ssm_: "pdflatex" seem to come from one of those enormous latex texlive package which you may not have (and the docx to pdf conversion might require more stuff - i don't know)
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23:15 < xse> 'pkg_info -L texlive_base' has /usr/local/bin/pdflatex
23:16 < thrig> or go full gonzo with texlive_texmf-full-2022
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23:23 < xse> pkg_info estimates '2262948937' total size, the missing unit makes the whole operation suspenseful
23:23 < Bradipo> Bytes.
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23:24 < thrig> in theory they could be humanized
23:24 < Bradipo> Bytes are just as "human" as kilobytes or megabytes or whateverbytes. :-)
23:25 < Bradipo> In fact, maybe moreso because we don't have to deal with the "human" factor that is the difference between MB and MiB, etc.
23:26 < Bradipo> I know that 2262948937 is two billion two hundred sixty two million nine hundred forty eight thousand nine hundred thirty seven bytes.
23:29 < thrig> I run (format t "~r" n) for numbers like that
23:29 < thrig> or humanize them
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23:34 < xse> i have to pause and count the digits to accurately read that number :p
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23:56 < pardis> ssm_: if you want more useful output than hex pointers for the arguments to execve, don't use -tc
23:57 < pardis> the default trace points are almost always what you want
23:57 < pardis> at least if you aren't already looking for something specific
--- Log closed Wed Oct 25 00:00:15 2023