--- Log opened Wed Oct 25 00:00:15 2023
--- Day changed Wed Oct 25 2023
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00:36 < ssm_> pardis: thanks for the tip
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00:57 < echelon> how do i tell the system that my hardware clock is in local time?
01:00 < thrig> unix and windows like to fight over that. might be simple to diddle with the windows registry in that case
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01:11 < pardis> if you live somewhere that changes its clock every summer, it is not even possible in principle to do that
01:11 < ssm_> well, best solution I found for docx2pdf is groff
01:11 < pardis> the OpenBSD kernel has no concept of timezones
01:11 < ssm_> with pandoc
01:11 < ssm_> doesn't render images, but that's fine
01:11 < pardis> ssm_: unoconv should also work
01:12  * ssm_ checks unoconv dependencies, sees libreoffice
01:12 < ssm_> yeah I'll stick with groff's 3 dependencies of c++, c++abi, and pthreads
01:12 < pardis> if you live somewhere that does not change the clock every summer, you could in principle modify the kernel to use a different offset when converting the hardware clock to UTC
01:13 < pardis> the only reason pandoc doesn't have a list of 200 dependencies is that it's a Haskell binary with all of them baked in
01:14 < ssm_> what size does pkg_info -s report in?
01:15 < ssm_> probably either 512 byte blocks or 1 kib
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01:23 < ssm_> $ du -hc $(pkg_info -L pandoc | awk 'NR>3{print $0}') == 108M
01:23 < ssm_> yeah that's big
01:27 < ssm_> okay better idea, use docx2txt, and the pipe into something that can convert plain text to pdf
01:27 < ssm_> can mandoc do that?
01:30 < ssm_> (maybe I'll just keep it as text)
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03:19 < phy1729> handy, on first boot the ssh fingerprint will be printed
03:21 < Zyxer> wat
03:22 < Zyxer> Coo
03:22 < Zyxer> cool*
03:22 < Zyxer> Oh, btw, that function of sending fake keystrokes over ssh is it on all ports (linux ssh) and is it on by default?
03:23 < phy1729> man ssh_config ObscureKeystrokeTiming  yes (but iirc it requires both client and server support)
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03:24 < lts> From 7.4 forwards yes https://www.openbsd.org/74.html
03:25 < lts> OpenSSH is an "OpenBSD project" rather than a "Linux project", so typically features on Linux are available on OpenBSD as well
03:27 < thrig> vendors may take hours to years to get to the new OpenSSH
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03:41 < hardkorebob> i love obsd
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03:41 < hardkorebob> no need to fork it even
03:41 < hardkorebob> evn tho i want to
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03:49 < Zyxer> lts: I meant if it has been ported to linux yet, the patches
03:49 < Zyxer> I know all the features and ssh overall is made by and for OpenBSD
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03:50 < Zyxer> But then I take it that on OpenBSD it is on by default to fake keystrokes. Does that also happen the other way? Like, does the OpenSSH server fake input packages as well or is it the client or both?
03:52 < Zyxer> Let's say I run an old ssh version withiut the fake imput, then SSH to OpenBSD server that is up to date, will it as well transmit fake imputs?
03:52 < Zyxer> inputs*
03:53 < Zyxer> Sorry if my questions are in the docs, just link them and tell me to read like a modern an instead of acting like caveman
03:54 < Zyxer> Getting a bit burned out on tech, gonna take up knitting as a hobby so I don't work with tech and do tech on free time 24/7
03:57 < echelon> so wpath doesn't need to be assigned to pledge() in order to generate a core dump?
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03:58 < lts> Right, sorry, I read it the other way around
04:00 < echelon> also, what's the purpose of execpromises in pledge()'s second parameter?
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04:53 < ids1024> Hm, `devname_r` doesn't exist on OpenBSD? That is present on FreeBSD, and apparently NetBSD, though it doesn't seem they mentioned it to the man page when it was added (https://github.com/NetBSD/src/commit/1907ec3a615d2e27fd67a01c14a15c67e384dcb8)
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05:01 < hardkorebob> i wish obs-studio was available
05:01 < hardkorebob> i need to show off how to do what i do 
05:02 < hardkorebob> trying to create a DE in py for py that runs on obsd 
05:02 < hardkorebob> working really well so far
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05:02 < hardkorebob> its a rad (rapid app dev env)
05:02 < hardkorebob> all plain text
05:02 < hardkorebob> only 9kb so far
05:03 < hardkorebob> :soapbox over
05:03 < phy1729> you could try and port it yourself
05:04 < hardkorebob> the obs u mean?
05:04 < hardkorebob> oh sh1t
05:04 < hardkorebob> h4x0r .... oh yea
05:04 < hardkorebob> consider it done
05:05 < hardkorebob> lm @ it
05:05 < hardkorebob> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/ports/guide.html
05:05 < hardkorebob> ???
05:07 < hardkorebob> https://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article;sid=20210113072623
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05:14 < hardkorebob> mmm
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05:20 < myappie> https://rubyonrails.org/doctrine -- should openbsd have something similar :thinking_face:
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05:34 < hardkorebob> screw obs
05:35 < hardkorebob> i can easily take a scrot each sec in a shell script
05:35 < hardkorebob> lol
05:36 < amblerite> gonna need a better frame rate than that
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08:46 < lts> "Errata patches for X11 server and kernel mbuf handling have been released for OpenBSD 7.3 and 7.4."
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08:54 < thalos> Hi! I'm developing a progam using libpcap and I want to support *BSD. On a fresh openbsd 7.2 libpcap is installed but a headerfile pcap/pcap.h is missing. I've searched the package repo but can't find libpcap. So.. Do i need to download the libpcap source to be able to build w/ everything needed?
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09:08 < carneous> thalos: packages are third party stuff only. Sounds like you need to get the "src" repository, which is the OS. Also, 7.2 is old.
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09:33 < V-T60> Hello
09:33 < V-T60> Can I use cyrillic language without X Window System?
09:34 < V-T60> when I do export LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8, it indeed helps me much. but only in X Window System session
09:34 < V-T60> in cli OpenBSD i see some very strange stuff instead of cyrillic letters
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10:15 < oldlaptop> I don't believe the framebuffer console has much coverage outside Latin, if that's what you mean
10:15 < oldlaptop> (the usual solution if the framebuffer console doesn't do something you want is to use this cool new terminal-multiplexer thing called "X")
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10:20 < z3bra> hello everyone! I have a weird issue with openssh (openbsd 7.4): I have a "match" block allowing a user to connect with an empty password, and a "forced-command" configured for an ssh key in the authorized_keys.
10:21 < z3bra> When I connect with the ssh key explicitely, it still connects with the "none" authtype, ignoring my ssh key
10:21 < z3bra> is that expected ?
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10:24 < z3bra> The "none" auth type isn't mentionned in ssh(1) so I don't even know if I can change its order of preference
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10:40 < thalos> carneous: Thanks, I'll look into the openbsd source a bit then
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10:55 < pardis> V-T60: the text console does not even support UTF-8
10:55 < pardis> what you're seeing is likely UTF-8 bytes being rendered as ISO-8859-1 or something similar
10:55 < pardis> do not use the text console if you need UTF-8
10:57 < pardis> thalos: you just want pcap.h, not pcap/pcap.h
10:57 < pardis> this is documented in pcap_open_live(3) and can also be discovered with 'find /usr/include -name pcap.h'
10:59 < Zyxer> Uh... in memtest86+ CLK/Temp being 86 degrees celcius is bad eh?
10:59 < Zyxer> I think this old laptop used thermal pads but I added thermal paste instead
10:59 < quinq> Depends
10:59 < sibiria> a bit toasty indeed. but your cpu knows when to shut down
10:59 < Zyxer> I am just gonna open it up again and put in thermal pads instead
10:59 < quinq> Yes, it's “bad” to have such thermal waste
11:00 < quinq> But that doesn't mean that's unexpected from your actual CPU
11:00 < Zyxer> This is a 1 core 
11:00 < Zyxer> Core 2 Duo p9400
11:00 < quinq> Irrelevent
11:00 < sibiria> i recall an article many years ago demonstrating that 80-85 degrees celsius is when "atom migration" starts to happen in silicon/copper chips, and that it's problematic to maintain that temperature for long durations
11:00 < quinq> (the “1 core” part)
11:00 < quinq> Core 2 Duo means it's dual core though
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11:01 < Zyxer> No it is 1 core, 2 threads
11:01 < Zyxer> Unless it means 2 cores when it says 1 cores
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11:01 < schillingklaus> I am content with ascii
11:02 < Zyxer> Well, thanks for the info on issue with 80-85 degrees
11:02 < Zyxer> Back to the work bench
11:02 < sibiria> the cpu will shut off before it's an immediate problem. don't worry about 80-85 degrees for short periods
11:03 < Zyxer> It is like, 16 year old laptop
11:03 < quinq> duo means two cores
11:03 < quinq> afik
11:03 < quinq> a
11:03 < quinq> I don't know the “it” in “it says 1 core” though
11:03 < Zyxer> Panasonic toughbook CF-F8
11:03 < Zyxer> the memtest
11:03 < Zyxer> 1 cores, 1 threads
11:04 < sibiria> i think you just started it in single-core mode
11:04 < sibiria> it defaults to that
11:04 < sibiria> you need to go into the config first
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11:04 < Zyxer> (I disabled smt)
11:04 < Zyxer> Oh
11:04 < Zyxer> Maybe I disabled second core
11:04 < Zyxer> And not threading
11:04 < sibiria> memtest86's config that is
11:04 < Zyxer> OH
11:04 < Zyxer> OK ok ok
11:04 < sibiria> well, you may have disabled the second core in BIOS too, who knows :)
11:05 < Zyxer> Welp, RAM was ok, so I can check the cores more specifically once I change the thermal paste to pads
11:05 < sibiria> duo is real dual-core. core 2 solo is the single one
11:05 < Zyxer> Then check BIOS and install OpenBSD
11:05 < Zyxer> Ok
11:05 < Zyxer> I see
11:05 < Zyxer> I thought maybe second gen core naming theme thing
11:05 < pardis> core 2 shot first
11:06 < Zyxer> At least when I grew up the numbers in the CPU model name meant not much
11:06 < Zyxer> Maybe there used to be a time when the numbers in CPU model names actually meant/refered to something 
11:06 < Zyxer> @_@
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11:08 < quinq> Well, I'm not sure a multi-threaded memtest would be really useful, unless you're testing on a board with multiple ddr controllers maybe
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11:58 < cation> were TLS 1.0 and 1.1 removed completely in libressl 8.3.1/there's no way to use them? I've run into a problem with 802.1x authentication using wpa_supplicant failing because the other end wants to use TLS 1.0
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12:00 < IcePic> thalos: /usr/include/pcap.h exists on my oldish boxes
12:00 < IcePic> perhaps looking for pcap/pcap.h fails because there is no pcap/ dir ?
12:01 < IcePic> (and libpcap.* is in /usr/lib/as expected)
12:01 < IcePic> /usr/lib  as expected
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12:10 < xse> cation: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-ports&m=169771550626902
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12:27 < cation> thank you
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14:16 < jmarsman>  /win balance
14:16 < jmarsman> oops, sorry...
14:17 < Zyxer> In case anyone cares, the panasonic Toughbooj CF-F8 has better thermals with thermalpads than with thermal paste 
14:17 < Zyxer> Waiting for bf to bring DVDs since I bet installing from DVD is faster than from USB 1.0
14:18 < Zyxer> but going to sleep first
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14:24 < Zyxer> Ok so also it was core I turned of in BIOS not threading (maybe both
14:25 < Zyxer> Average temp is around 5°C lower with thermal pads and 2 cores running memtest
14:25 < Zyxer> But shouldn't using two cores increase average temp?
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15:29 < miah> does toughbook have pxe?
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16:36 < mason> Does SMAPI work (id est, is it controllable) on a T480 under OpenBSD?
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17:10 < PyR3X> how can I see which sets have been installed from a running system?
17:12 < xse> you may get a mail summarizing the whole installation like you get on upgrades, i'm not sure
17:12 < CNOT> https://man.openbsd.org/pkg_info ??
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17:15 < armin> i'm almost 100% sure there are 99999999 wrappers around pkg_* so i won't post my own one now which implements "pkg listinstalled"
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17:16 < armin> but yes, pkg_* is fantastic, the fact that i wrote a wrapper for it within 15min or something which does *EXACTLY* what i need just proves that pkg_* is really really well designed.
17:17 < armin> <3
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17:17 < PyR3X> not the packages the sets
17:17 < armin> ah
17:18 < armin> PyR3X: hm i doubt that's possible as these are just archives being extracted into the system, but i could be mistaken.
17:18 < armin> PyR3X: you could download all the individual sets and write a script that extracts them and then checks in the system what's there, but that's not exactly reliable and not what you want (i think).
17:19 < armin> PyR3X: i fear that's impossible right now. :(
17:19 < PyR3X> the problem is I'm using pre-built libvirt images made with Packer that I'm orchestrating through vagrant and many of them do not install every set, but I'd like to determine which ones were installed
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17:20 < phy1729> You generally should just install all of them
17:20 < armin> well you could check inside the system and compare what's there to the contents of those sets archives, but i'm not sure how reliable that is or if i'm on the wrong track here...
17:21 < armin> phy1729: well i can understand that someone doesn't want games to be installed.
17:21 < armin> phy1729: or the x-sets.
17:21 < PyR3X> I don't disagree you should install them all, and I would normally -- but I'm not generating these pre-built images
17:21 < PyR3X> and so whomever made the decision not too, I'd like to know which they decided to install
17:22 < PyR3X> from a running system
17:23 < armin> PyR3X: hmmm, i would love to have a way to do that, too, i had just the same problem a week ago.
17:24 < armin> PyR3X: i think it's not possible because those sets are effectively just tar/gz archives being extracted into /.
17:25 < armin> someone correct me if i talk garbage.
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17:29 < CNOT> i am okay with you talking garbage
17:30 < echelon> hi, my buffer cleared from the time i asked my previous question, so i'll ask again
17:31 < echelon> what is the purpose of pledge()'s second parameter (execpromises)?
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17:32 < phy1729> See the exec promise in the man page
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17:34 < echelon> that's what i'm referencing, and from what i'm understanding, if "exec" is passed in the first parameter, and the process spawns another process via exec, execpromises enforces what the child process can do?
17:35 < phy1729> yes
17:36 < echelon> so it's completely unnecessary if i don't intend to use exec at all?
17:36 < CNOT> if a hacker executes exec on your programs behalf
17:36 < phy1729> it'd be fairly pointless if you don't pledge exec
17:36 < echelon> gotcha
17:37 < thrig> one use is a wrapper for irssi to limit what it can do without having to compile irssi yourself
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17:38 < echelon> thrig: wouldn't you just use systrace for that instead of writing a wrapper?
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17:38 < phy1729> https://man.openbsd.org/systrace
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17:38 < thrig> now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time
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17:40 < topcat001> Zyxer: memtest maxes out the cpus. Even without pads you'd not get such temps during normal usage.
17:41 < topcat001> Also single core tends to activate turbo mode and higher temps.
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17:44 < echelon> my other question was, you don't need "wpath" in pledge() to generate a core dump?
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17:45 < thrig> one test would be a program that violates pledge without a wpath permit
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17:48 < echelon> works, i'll also need to check if the user that runs the process needs to have write permission
17:50 < echelon> thrig: is there a way to set where the core dump is written to?
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18:21 < echelon> is it true that freebsd's pf has a way to recycle packet buffers on the NIC to deal with ddos with minimal overhead?
18:21 < echelon> is that something that can be done in openbsd?
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19:12 < armin> looks like someone's reading either mwl.io or hackernews.
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19:13 < armin> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37678714
19:13 < armin> <OpenBSD has something very close to that w/ bpf(4) BIOCGFILDROP filter "drop".>
19:13 < armin> echelon: i have absolutely no idea if what is written there is legit or if what can be done in openbsd is comparable, but maybe that's a pointer for you.
19:14 < echelon> armin: caught me, yes, it was hn -_-
19:14 < armin> echelon: *hides under a blanket*
19:15 < armin> echelon: i was just curious about the topic, sorry.
19:16 < armin> *walks to the fridge and gets echelon and himself a beer.
19:16 < echelon> :)
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20:43 < vortexx> does anyone know how to do this redirection request in httpd ? In nginx it's like this: rewrite ^/discord$ https://discord.gg/8eY6ySJe redirect;
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20:48 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/maybe-something-like.txt
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20:54 < vortexx> cheers thrig 
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20:58 < vortexx> yeah that worked perfectly, thanks a lot
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21:04 < thrig> ... never gonna let you down ...
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21:32 < hardkorebob> why does X have an infinite desktop?
21:32 < ssm_> what does this mean
21:35 < hardkorebob> i startx into a while loop with xterm as the main app
21:35 < hardkorebob> i have a micro wm in python
21:35 < hardkorebob> i run it i can hae super huge windows and move them outside the monitor
21:35 < hardkorebob> that makes sense?
21:36 < uwharrie> no sure how that other information is relevant, but just because something can be positioned outside the viewport doesn't mean there's an infinite desktop
21:37 < ssm_> why would you run startx in a while loop
21:38 < hardkorebob> i lack nomenclature of the correct terms
21:38 < hardkorebob> thanks for putting it in the right terms
21:38 < hardkorebob> im learning
21:38 < uwharrie> see https://man.openbsd.org/xorg.conf#Virtual and https://man.openbsd.org/xorg.conf#ViewPort
21:39 < hardkorebob> thank u
21:39 < thrig> x11 lets you move windows to wacky locations, yes
21:39 < hardkorebob> i like it
21:39 < hardkorebob> ita liberating
21:39 < ssm_> you can install xdotool to move windows back into the viewport if somehow you move them out
21:39 < hardkorebob> cool. im running a python lab because ive never developed before
21:40 < hardkorebob> https://github.com/hardkorebob/tinywm
21:41 < hardkorebob> im developing a de env for all nix, but its germinating in openbsd
21:41 < hardkorebob> to set a standard
21:41 < hardkorebob> im just excited to be understanding comp.sci
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21:52 < Bradipo> wacky locations including outside of anything that can be viewed on your monitor.
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21:58 < hardkorebob> would be nice for someone to test it too and let me know what could be improved
21:59 < thalos> pardis: Sorry for the late reply. You're right, the openbsd man page only mentions pcap.h, but freebsd has pcap/pcap.h, as do netbsd and linux. There are some functionallity in pcap/pcap.h which I need..
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22:01 < thalos> IcePic: I know /usr/include/pcap.h exists, but for some reason, the pcap lib has 2 header files. both /usr/include/pcap.h and /usr/include/pcap/pcap.h (atleast on linux, freebsd and netbsd). My program compiles on all these other flavours. Even the official pcap docs mentions pcap/pcap.h. So this is really confusing to me
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22:09 < frank1> k
22:10 < frank1> i do not have a /etc/pf.conf - even tho im having troubles that pf rules are loaded from somewhere at boot. is the config stored somewhere elso too?
22:16 < Bradipo> There is a default set of rules that gets loaded if missing.
22:16 < Bradipo> So if you don't have /etc/pf.conf, there is a static set of rules in /etc/rc (if memory serves).
22:16 < Bradipo> frank1: What are you trying to do?
22:18 < frank1> Bradipo: I just want pf to be enabled, but without rules
22:18 < frank1> Sooo i should just touch(1) /etc/pf.conf i guess
22:19 < Bradipo> Maybe.
22:19 < Bradipo> I've never done such a thing.
22:19 < Bradipo> Try it.
22:19 < frank1> trying to reboot
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22:22 < frank1> That helped, thank you @bradipo
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22:52 < frank1> Bradipo: 
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22:54 < Bradipo> Did you forget to type a message?
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22:55 < frank1> Oh, no. Just that it helped to touch /etc/pf.conf - thx!
22:55 < Bradipo> Oh, sorry, I saw that, just failed to respond.
22:55 < Bradipo> Good to know that it worked.
22:55 < Bradipo> I think it's because you used @bradipo...
22:55 < Bradipo> That doesn't do anything in my IRC client.
22:56 < tommyrot> there's a /etc/examples/pf.conf if you need it
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23:28 < PyR3X> https://pastebin.com/yERFUd9w
23:29 < PyR3X> anyone know why this rc.d script I made for thelounge does not actually start at boot, but works fine with rcctl start/stop?
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23:34 < uwharrie> not a direct answer, but there are other reports of node applications failing at boot and this has some directions for debugging things
23:34 < uwharrie> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=169730004023274&w=2
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23:42 < PyR3X> ty yeah it must be something with node
23:42 < PyR3X> it's super annoying have to go in there and start this each time
23:43 < PyR3X> maybe i'll just add 'rcctl start thelounge' to rc.local 
23:43 < Bradipo> PyR3X: Use daemontools. :-)
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23:44 < PyR3X> Bradipo: never heard of it?
23:44 < Bradipo> http://cr.yp.to/daemontools/faq/create.html#why
23:46 < pardis> or one of the numerous daemontools-inspired things you can pkg_add
23:47 < Bradipo> runit is another favorite.
23:47 < Bradipo> I still prefer daemontools.
23:47 < pardis> I prefer runit just so I don't need to maintain familiarity with two things given I use Void Linux in places anyway
23:47 < pardis> but they are both reasonable choices if you learn them well
23:47 < pardis> there is also freedt in packages
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23:49 < PyR3X> it seems overkill to just start a service no? 
23:49 < thrig> some things have fancy restarts and whatnot
23:49 < Bradipo> Depends on how important that service is I suppose.
23:50 < PyR3X> I think just adding it to rc.local/rc.shutdown might be enough for now
23:50 < Bradipo> And how important it is for that service to remain running 24x7.
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23:50 < Bradipo> I got an email today that relayd wasn't running. Apparently it died on the 20th.
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23:51 < Bradipo> Of course I didn't check my email between the 20th and yesterday, so I wasn't aware of it.
23:51 < Bradipo> Had I supervised it with daemontools, it would still be up.
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23:54 < thrig> monitoring could also check on, whine about, and maybe restart things
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 26 00:00:11 2023