--- Log opened Fri Oct 27 00:00:02 2023
--- Day changed Fri Oct 27 2023
00:00 < Bradipo> Yeah, I don't really like having massive terminals.
00:00 < codermattie> Man thats a tiny terminal
00:00 < vortexx> irssi wraps the topic for me
00:00 < vortexx> used to be the default
00:00 < vortexx> (for 80x24 terms)
00:00 < fro> same size term here and mine wraps but i dont use irssi
00:00 < Bradipo> 80x24 is the standard terminal size that xterm gives you when you start it.
00:01 < codermattie> xterm is a joke, mrxvt, konsole, gnome-terminal, cool-term, anything is better
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00:02 < thrig> I tried alacritty. got it to crash with a sh script. went back to xterm
00:02 < codermattie> I just use konsole for unix systems
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00:02 < Bradipo> I don't like any of the others, they seem like the joke to me. :-)
00:03 < Bradipo> xterm is solid.  Doesn't do anything "fancy".  Just gives me a terminal that works.
00:03 < codermattie> does it do color and unicode?
00:04 < Bradipo> Well, my irssi has colors.
00:04 < Bradipo> My background is not black or white.
00:04 < codermattie> I mean for the window, without Xresources
00:04 < Bradipo> And lately it seems that OpenBSD devs have switched xterm to UTF-8 by default.
00:05 < codermattie> thats cool
00:05 < fro> i don't think that's new
00:05 < Bradipo> What do you mean "the window"?
00:05 < codermattie> the terminal window, the X window
00:05 < Bradipo> xterm has had color in it's -fg and -bg parameters forever.
00:05 < thrig> xterm*colorMode:false gets rid of the annoying colors
00:06 < Bradipo> fro: Yes, it's not exactly new... but when you've been using OpenBSD as long as I have, something that happened in the last year or two is *new*. :-)
00:07 < fro> sure but
00:07 < fro> 2016 isn't in the last year or two
00:07 < codermattie> Xresources is archaic as pyramid hyrogliphics
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00:08 < Bradipo> No more archaic than runing a Unix system in 2023.
00:09 < Bradipo> fro: Has it been since 2016?  Well, that's still shorter than the amount of time that I used it before the change.
00:10 < apotheon> 23:53 < vortexx> apotheon: you know it's only updated when -current hits the next version and people have to use -Dsnap for pkg_add -u ... It's fine as is
00:10 < Bradipo> I used it for 16+ years without UTF-8 encoding as the default.  7 years is relatively new by comparison.
00:10 < codermattie> I used OpenBSD in 2001 for a work server, headless
00:10 < apotheon> What does that have to do with letting people know it's time to upgrade if they don't use -current?
00:11 < fro> why is someone using the topic in irc channel to notify them that they need to upgrade?
00:11 < fro> that's ridiculous
00:12 < Bradipo> I don't think I ever look at the topic, certainly not for version information.
00:12 < fro> that would be the last place i'd look
00:12 < Bradipo> apotheon: Someone asked if xterm had Unicode support and colors.
00:12 < codermattie> yeah, I asked
00:13 < codermattie> I had an annoying boss who would demand all patches fit 80x24 because he liked to tile terminals with vim in them
00:13 < codermattie> trying to keep java code to 80 columns is a horrible experience
00:13 < thrig> easy solution, don't code java
00:14 < codermattie> i wasnt the boss
00:14 < codermattie> if I was the boss we would use 125+
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00:14 < codermattie> and sometimes java is also required for legacy code
00:15 -!- bellidore [~bellidore@bellidore.uncleyaya.net] has joined #openbsd
00:15 < codermattie> and sometimes you work for large companies with millions of lines of java
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00:17 < codermattie> I also worked for a fortune 10 company that used a groovy that was years out of date
00:17 < Bradipo> Fossil style has an < 80 column style requirement: 
00:17 < Bradipo> https://www.fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/style.wiki point 1.10
00:18 < codermattie> some people are still living the 80's
00:18 < vortexx> codermattie: ever land on a big heap of java code written in v1.0 or 1.1?
00:18 < vortexx> plenty of people are still living in the 80s and loving it
00:18 < Bradipo> I think it's a sensible requirement.
00:18 < codermattie> vortexx: actually used it in 2000
00:18 < vortexx> lucky you, it wasn't too old by then
00:19 < vortexx> talking of astonishing things... thanks to flak, I found out that people are trying to get pledge/unveil working on linux. I never expected that to show up
00:20 < thrig> probably because seccomp or whatever is canned hate?
00:20 < Bradipo> Didn't we just discuss justine's pledge/unveil article the other day?
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00:20 < thrig> Omar Polo had a linux security framework rant recently
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00:21 < vortexx> Bradipo: I must missed that conversation
00:22 < vortexx> I do try and read the backlog daily but sometimes I get behind
00:22 < Bradipo> https://justine.lol/pledge/
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00:24 < apotheon> I don't visit the openbsd.org site very often, or any tech news sites to speak of these days, though every April and October I find myself loading up openbsd.org every few days just to see if the next version is available.
00:26 < apotheon> I seem to recall new releases being announced in Freenode #openbsd, which I found convenient.  I didn't have to load openbsd.org three times a week to see if I could upgrade yet.
00:27 < codermattie> I too would find that convenient , I dont want to ping news sites
00:30 < fro> so look at the mailing lists
00:31 < phy1729> or an RSS reader or look at etc/root/root.mail
00:31 < fro> ^
00:31 < hardkorebob> My favorite take on this so far came via Mastodon, from Mark Shane Hayden, in this toot, which reads in full:
00:31 < hardkorebob>     @mwl @pitrh I suppose we can take solace in that if Skynet ever came into existence for real it would be unreachable 
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00:32 < hardkorebob> Wednesday, June 7, 2023 That grumpy BSD guy I asked ChatGPT to write a pf.conf to spec, 2023-06-07 version
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00:34 < fro> ok
00:36  * hardkorebob finds 'ppl still living in the [yr]' type comments amusing
00:37 < codermattie> Personally I choose to live in 1999, when musicians still used instruments
00:37 < hardkorebob> 99!!!!
00:37 < hardkorebob> Love it
00:37 < hardkorebob> Im probably living in yr 1
00:37 < hardkorebob> I mean -1
00:38 < codermattie> BC, impressive
00:38 < hardkorebob> Well.... its difficult to express mathematicaly
00:39 < hardkorebob> Im at #0xfu if anyone wants to converse, i dont like polution of chan
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00:56 < echelon> why doesn't openbsd have an official AMI in AWS?
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00:57 < echelon> this is a nuisance to use for me as i can only use rotating credentials: https://github.com/ajacoutot/aws-openbsd/blob/master/obsd-img-builder.sh
00:58 < hardkorebob> why doesnt obsd have [X] is more like a thing for you to build and provide
00:58 < hardkorebob> .02
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00:58 < hardkorebob> obs-studio not in pkgs, i built it for me, more work sure, complaints=Null
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00:59 < echelon> what's obs-studio
01:03 < hardkorebob> google it
01:04 < echelon> well i guess my question was what's it got to do with my question
01:04 < hardkorebob> its a recording software suite for *nix OSes, You can record yourself coding and stuff
01:04 < apotheon> Bradipo: I have color and unicode in XTerm.
01:04 < hardkorebob> ineed friend, what does anything have to do with anything
01:04 < apotheon> just gotta set your console stuff properly
01:04 < hardkorebob> apotheon, Me 2!
01:04 < apotheon> kewl
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01:14 < vortexx> OBS is a broadcast suite, it's one windows too, and probably OS X
01:14 < vortexx> s/one/on
01:14 < vortexx> all those people streaming on twitch.tv are using it
01:16 < thrig> facecaster
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02:59 < echelon> can someone explain how openbsd sources this auto_install.conf file when it does an install? https://github.com/ajacoutot/aws-openbsd/blob/master/obsd-img-builder.sh#L75
02:59 < echelon> i'm trying to figure out of this is a function of the script or the os installer
03:00 < phy1729> man autoinstall 5th para
03:02 < echelon> oh!
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03:47 < joe9> since upgrading to 7.4, I notice a lag when moving the mouse pointer. Has anyone noticed this?
03:47 < joe9> I am not sure how to describe it.
03:47 < joe9> The mouse movemements are jittery and seem to be lagging.
03:47 < dlg> maybe you need a new mouse pad
03:48 < joe9> I vaguely remember that there used to be a setting to fix it.
03:48 < joe9> no, it is a trackball mouse.
03:48 < joe9> It was fine before the upgrade.
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05:13 -!- anon11 is now known as zyxer
05:14 < zyxer> Hi
05:14 -!- drk [~drk@gateway/tor-sasl/drk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
05:15 < zyxer> I have issue. So I mentioned earlier about my ancient-ish laptop, the panasonic cf-f8, well, I tried running kitty terminal and I am getting error
05:15 < zyxer> Running it from xterm gives this error
05:17 < zyxer> Bear with me need to install curlfor the clbin
05:17 < zyxer> https://clbin.com/6a55f
05:18 < zyxer> Will I never be able to run modern kitty terminal due to old ass iGPU that doesn't support newer OpenGL version?
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05:19 < zyxer> moreover, the touchpad synaptics drivers seem broken for this hardware. The cursor just jumps all over the place, left and right click no workey (works on USBmouse, there no issue) and xconsole spits out errors:
05:19 < zyxer> pms0: not in sync yet, discard input (state = 0, ca | ca 3f c0 99 90
05:20 < zyxer> pms0: not in sync yet, discard input (state = 3, 90 d1 8f 0c | 2f 90)
05:20 < zyxer> Two examples
05:20 < zyxer> The touchpad is like, a circle not square like most are
05:21 < zyxer> Trying to open cd drive using the "button" on it makes a beep that is like termninal beep.Not sure how to debugg that at all
05:22 < zyxer> doas eject cd0 just does nothing
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05:23 < zyxer> Not even xconsole spits anything out
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05:28 < zyxer> First 200 lines on my dmesg because after that the pms errors just spam because I tried to use touch pad (impossible)
05:28 < zyxer> https://clbin.com/i4TN2
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05:45 < echelon> how long does it take to relink the kernel during the install? is it a memory-intensive or disk-intensive activity?
05:45 < echelon> i'm doing an install on a slow usb 2.0 flash drive -_-
05:46 < mischief> yes.
05:46 < mischief> echelon: here's a nickel kid, get a new disk
05:47 < zyxer> The bottleneck is the disk not the USB
05:48 < zyxer> If you got an old HDD then it might be a sign the HDD is dying/on life support
05:48 < echelon> alright, guess i'll cancel the install, this is taking longer than the installation of the sets
05:48 < zyxer> If it is old hardware, then be poatient'
05:48 < echelon> zyxer: it's a thumbdrive
05:48 < zyxer> It only takes that long at install
05:49 < zyxer> Then at reboot it relinks in parallel so you shouldn't need to wait for it
05:49 < zyxer> oh
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05:57 < mischief> the theoretical limit of usb 2 is 480Mbit/s but as i'm sure we all know any flash drive manufactured in that era doesn't come close to the max rate of that standard
05:58 < zyxer> My father had such a USB 2, it was a hardware company that didn't sell USBs, but it was cheaper and also more effiecent for them to produce their own. Just hard see through plastic, nothing fancy. Both my brother and I dropped our jaws when we copied a movie over in around 2 seconds
05:58 < zyxer> We had to double check the movie was copied over and not corrupt or anything. 
05:59 < mischief> this random usb 128GB 3.0 disk on my desk does actually get about 60 megabytes/s write speed which is pretty reasonable
05:59 < zyxer> Noice
05:59 < mischief> one of these guys https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BAR-Plus-128GB-MUF-128BE3/dp/B07BPK3XWW
05:59 < IcePic> depending on the OS, writes to umass may or may not be hitting the write caches in ram and not necessarily be finalized to disk until lots later
06:00 < mischief> IcePic: i passed oflag=direct to coreutils dd
06:00 < IcePic> mischief: sure, just saying that testing write speeds requires you to do your homework
06:01 < mischief> quite
06:01 < mischief> without oflag=direct i'd just be filling my 64GB of ddr5 ram .. :-)
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06:02 < IcePic> the general idea is "if my OS has an 'eject usb' button, it means it needs that in order to sync() the data because it was just caching all/most of the writes when it said copying was done"
06:03 < thrig> zip drives had a pretty energetic eject function
06:03 < mischief> i guess there's no direct flag in openbsd dd, not sure how'd measure raw disk io straightforwardly there
06:06 < IcePic> mischief: I gues "sync ; dd ... ; sync" would be ok, at least for large IO
06:06 < mischief> what can print the rate though
06:06 < mischief> coreutils dd has status=progress
06:07 < thrig> or you can poke it with SIGINFO?
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06:07 < IcePic> ctrl-t on well behaved terminals
06:08 < thrig> you might need to bind that
06:08 < mischief> ok, sure. don't know how that helps the cache avoidance though
06:08 < IcePic> I thought the topic changed to "how to show progress"
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06:08 < mischief> well, you need both to get accurate information.
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06:09 < echelon> remembered i had a usb 3.0 disk laying around.. and it was a lot faster
06:09 < echelon> not a thumb drive, i think it's nvme
06:10 < mischief> ^T does not seem to work for SIGINFO from suckless terminal on linux over ssh to openbsd with dd running in tmux.
06:10 < mischief> it prints a nice "^T" but nothing else :-)
06:10 < uwu_linux_openbs> ^T means Ctrl-T?
06:10 < mischief> korrekt
06:11 < IcePic> stty -a <- print all, look for status = 
06:11 < mischief> ah, well status = <undef>
06:11 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/in-the-darkness-bind.txt
06:11 < IcePic> if it isn't ^T, then "stty status ^T" <- where it is carret then T, not the literal ctrl-T press
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06:12 < mischief> that does print something
06:12 < mischief> 780140544 bytes transferred in 1.948 secs (400449611 bytes/sec)
06:12 < mischief> load: 0.12  cmd: dd 79566 [bqwait] 0.00u 1.99s 9% 339k
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06:13 < mischief> dont think that number is right though since there's still the cache in the way
06:17 < IcePic> I would probably run something using "fio" if I wanted to do the real science on disk perf
06:19 < mischief> just did :-)
06:19 < mischief> the sata ssd in my firewall seems to be just about as fast as that usb disk in my linux dekstop http://ix.io/4K4q
06:23 < mischief> i wonder what theo is going to stuff into that 'disruptive' snapshot
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06:26 < IcePic> mischief: aggressive write-caching of usb perhaps? ;)
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06:30 < mischief> i'm sure we're pushing the boundaries on os research with usb mass storage write caching
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07:03 < err> :q
07:04 < err> yeah sorry
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10:46 < rak> Are the auto-installer questions documented anywhere other than the source? I want to write an auto_upgrade.conf file, as documented in autoinstall(8), and it would be helpful to have a reference to the questions
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10:59 < IcePic> rak: you run it once, and get an email with the questions and answers
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16:27 < kn> rak: no they aren't.
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17:23 < avemestr> mischief: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=169841790407370&w=2
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17:25 < phy1729> There were some commits to ports earlier this week suggesting this was happening soon
17:30 < mischief> neat
17:31 < thrig> lock the syscall! lock the syscall!
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17:44 < renaud> sibiria: I have had one cloud oracle VM which was not responding (paid account). I tried to force reboot it. Now, it's powered off and when I try to start it, I get a "Unable to start instance: Out of host capacity."... Definitely not reliable....
17:45 < thrig> meanwhile, on cloud city, "this deal keeps on getting worse"
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17:48 < avemestr> "To the surprise of no-one, Oracle turned out not to be a friend of their customers".
17:49 < thrig> good thing they have a "trust and safety" department to help manage customer expectations?
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18:05 < adonis> Anyone use pf-badhost and unbound-adblock and seeing Segmentation faults?
18:06 < adonis> just started seeing segfaults on 7.4. Didn't see them prior.
18:11 < uwharrie> segfaults from what?
18:11 < adonis> from running the script to pull in the latest blocklists..
18:11 < thrig> vague reports on irc differ from actionable emails to some mailing list
18:12 < uwharrie> programs segfault, shell scripts don't
18:12 < adonis> uwharrie, fair.. the script is running a program which is segfaulting.
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18:13 < adonis> https://www.geoghegan.ca/code.html
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18:17 < thrig> you of course recompiled the code for 7.4?
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18:20 < adonis> thrig: recompiled what exactly? my packages?
18:20 < uwharrie> and followed the entire upgrade guide including updating packages?
18:22 < adonis> uwharrie: I did yea. Instructions say I can do 'sysupgrade', then sysmerge and then upgrade my packages..
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18:24 < sibiria> renaud: because of boot volume allowance being reduced or what?
18:24 < sibiria> oh, maybe just VM pool full
18:24 < sibiria> pretty stupid that they deallocate on reboot...
18:25 < sibiria> now i'm even more wary of the hosts i have there
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19:58 < armin> hi, the discussion popped up on one of the mailing lists recently: why would one NOT want an ntp client in the installer image?
19:58 < armin> could someone briefly explain?
19:59 < armin> (or link me to something that does?)
19:59 < pertho> had to move my ports build to another machine.. now when I try to make install, the intermediate packages (that the port requires) won't install: find:/usr/ports/packages/amd64/all/xxxxx.tgz: unsigned package .. how to fix? I lost my old /etc/mk.conf
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20:03 < renaud> sibiria:  We have received a response from our service team, seems that the issue is being caused due to lack of capacity in the actual fault domain you are using for your VM. 
20:03 < sibiria> armin: isn't rdate in the installer image? it's part of base
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20:07 < armin> sibiria: i THINK i remember trying EXACTLY that 2 days ago and it wasn't there
20:07 < armin> sibiria: let me check.
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20:11 < armin> sibiria: sh: rdate: not found
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20:12 < fro> why do you need that in the installer image?
20:13 < armin> fro: i probably don't, I'm fine with manually running the date command to set the date to something that will work, and I understand that keeping the installer as lightweight as possible makes sense, but I want to hear opinions of why one would *not* want it.
20:14 < armin> fro: as long as it's just there and makes people be able to drop to a shell and run rdate against some known good NTP server, I don't know, why would one *not* want that?
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20:16 < armin> fro: some computers simply don't have an RTC, some clocks might be wrong, people might use the date command to set the date not very precise, whatever, I mean I can think of a couple of situations...
20:16 < Bradipo> I thought the installer did ask you to set the date...
20:16 < armin> Bradipo: it tells you to do so, IN CAPITAL LETTERS WITH A !
20:17 < Bradipo> Well, you can use rdate.
20:17 < armin> from the installer?
20:17 < Bradipo> You just have to chroot into your newly installed (or upgraded) system from the shell in the installer.
20:17 < Bradipo> Yes, from the installer.
20:17 < armin> ah!
20:17 < armin> Bradipo: thank you!
20:17 < Bradipo> chroot /mnt /usr/sbin/rdate ...
20:18 < armin> yup
20:18 < Bradipo> I think it's mounted on /mnt.
20:18 < avemestr> There's ntpd installed from base, IIRC. Would that not solve the issue?
20:18 < Bradipo> I chroot quite often when there are manual things I want to touch up before I reboot.
20:18 < Bradipo> ntpd doesn't solve a problem if the clock is too far gone.
20:19 < avemestr> Ah, you're talking about the installer. Sorry.
20:19 < Bradipo> And yes, from the installer.
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20:21 < sibiria> renaud: yeah ok, so for some reason their infra actually deallocates and reallocated a VM when restarting it from the api/control panel
20:21 < sibiria> a bit strange
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21:15 < dfdx> does anyone here use cgit with httpd for a personal, private git server? Just curious how you manage repos. Are they all stored in /var/www/htdocs/ somewhere? Since httpd chroots under /var/www/, the owner of those directories and files have to be "www". So how does a normal user push changes to the git repo?
21:15 < dfdx> (also, I can't get a dummy repo I setup under /var/www/htdocs/src/dummy.git to even show up on the webpage... perhaps these two problems are related, I don't know.)
21:18 < dfdx> nvm... i got my dummy.git to show up. just wondering how folks commit to it.
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21:30 < Bradipo> dfdx: I use Fossil instead of Git to manage repositories.
21:31 < Bradipo> I wonder if there's a tutorial for Git on OpenBSD with httpd(8).
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21:38 < Bradipo> You would indeed need to make the Git repository writeable by www.
21:38 < Bradipo> And then you would need to figure out how to control *who* can write to it via HTTP, etc...
21:43 < phy1729> Either put them on github/lab/srht or use an ssh remote? I hear gitea is nice but haven't used it personally
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21:56 < Bradipo> Indeed, there's always just git+ssh.
21:57 < armin> dfdx: hi. how i manage repos, hm, that's a wild question.
21:57 < armin> dfdx: do you want the long or the short answer?
21:57 < armin> dfdx: the short one: log in via ssh there and do a "git init --bare", and then use "git clone ssh://user@hostname/somerepo".
21:58 < armin> dfdx: the long answer is: i wrote a wrapper for ~/.ssh/authorized_keys command= thing, and that runs a wrapper script, which in turn i alias on the client machines, which makes it possible to use things like "gitctl create foobar", "gitctl delete foobar", "gitctl foobar log" and so on.
21:59 < Bradipo> I also have a small gitctl.sh script that I use when I want to grant read-only access.
21:59 < armin> Bradipo: what you chose the same name? :D
21:59 < armin> hehe
21:59 < armin> cool :D
21:59 < Bradipo> Well, mine has .sh, but I'm sure I just stole it from some website that gave me the idea.
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22:00 < armin> i'm just happy we both have almost the same thing. :)
22:00 < Bradipo> Haha, well, my gitctl.sh is fairly minimal... it does one thing.
22:00 < armin> :)
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22:01 < Bradipo> Basically it does "exec git-upload-pack $REPO"
22:01 < Bradipo> Where REPO I obtain from SSH_ORIGINAL_COMMAND.
22:01 < armin> dfdx: but what i wanted to say is: you need NOTHING except a machine you can access via ssh.
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22:02 < armin> Bradipo: ah that variable name, i remember it somehow.
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22:17 < codermattie> I use a couple of techniques for git, I have a script that manages most aspects of git and python, uses git-flow
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22:18 < codermattie> I ssh into the machine remotely, and I use sshfs since I cant use my yubikey on the server
22:19 < codermattie> so I have a repo machine called gatekeeper (OpenBSD) for the repos on a RAID1 , another machine called cracker with a checkout from gatekeeper, and my development machine that has the tools and a yubikey
22:20 < codermattie> performance is pretty good since all the machines are on a 2.5 gbps ethernet network
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22:21 < codermattie> if you want my pythonsh script for managing git + git-flow + python I can give you a github url
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22:31 < armin> codermattie: that sounds WAY too complex for me.
22:31 < armin> codermattie: but hey, if you're able to still control that, why not.
22:32 < armin> codermattie: i admit it, i wouldn't, i need something that's so simple that i can get drunk without having to fear i don't understand it anymore.
22:33 < armin> codermattie: that's something i realized this year, bloat is something i have to get rid of in my life.
22:36 < dfdx> thanks for everyone's discussion about this. good to know i'm not missing out on some obvious canonical method.
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22:37 < dfdx> if I just need to manage the git pushing and pulling to and from repos, then ssh is all I need. in fact, this is what I have been doing. I was just hoping to share some of this work to the public (or a group of select friends) via a webpage. hence cgit.
22:38 < dfdx> hence trying to figure out how to have /var/www/htdocs/cgi-bin/cgit.cgi see the repos in /home/git/repos/
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22:49 < armin> 00:37 [ dfdx] if I just need to manage the git pushing and pulling to and from repos, then ssh is all I need.
22:50 < armin> dfdx: this is THE point to memorize in that context i think, if you understand that, and that cgit is just some little thing on top, you're golden. i never used cgit, but with that knowledge, you're well equipped, yes.
22:50 < codermattie> dfdx: you can just use github
22:50 < armin> bahahaha :D
22:50 < dfdx> armin: cgit isn't some little thing on top; it's some little thing hidden in a chroot under /var/www, which is the problem. :)
22:50 < armin> codermattie: plz tell me you're trolling :)
22:51 < dfdx> codermattie: becuase i'm a masochist I want to self-host.
22:51 < codermattie> why would github be a joke?
22:51 < armin> i'm a bit...speechless now.
22:51 < codermattie> if its not proprietaryt it works
22:52 < armin> no i won't start a github rant in #openbsd now, just no.
22:54 < codermattie> armin: thats fine, just github works for the other 99% of programmers
22:54 < armin> codermattie: you do realize that you're in a minority channel?
22:55 < armin> codermattie: people here are very likely not these 99% to begin with.
22:55 < codermattie> armin: I like openbsd as a clean and secure UNIX
22:55 < armin> codermattie: me too.
22:55 < codermattie> for work I liked to work on the problem, not tinker endlessly with half baked tools
22:56 < armin> codermattie: but meh, come on, github doesn't have ipv6 even (openbsd does, since 3 days, and it's my fault, but that's a different story).
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22:57 < armin> codermattie: and so many other huge fails, you can't even browse large repositories on that web interface. it will just get so damn slow it's not usable anymore. i'm on a very fast computer, on a very fast internet connection, that just doesn't fly.
22:57 < Bradipo> I'm not a fan of GitHub either.
22:57 < Bradipo> As I said earlier, I prefer Fossil.
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22:57 < Bradipo> Makes me "minority" too I suppose. :-)
22:57 < armin> codermattie: then that 2fa forced b/s, and meh so many other things that just make me angry. i would happily continue to use cvs/svn just to not have to use shith^Wgithub.
22:57 < codermattie> armin: the 2fa is easy
22:58 < codermattie> I had it on before it was enforced
22:58 < armin> codermattie: cool that it works for you, can i see that gitctl.sh again?
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22:59 < armin> i'm in control of my ssh private key, and i refuse to use a smartphone. can i please use just git?
22:59 < Bradipo> You don't need a smartphone for 2FA.
22:59 < armin> i don't need 2fa for git, either.
22:59 < codermattie> https://github.com/bitcathedrals/pythonsh
22:59 < Bradipo> You can right your own TOTP authenticator.  I wrote one in a matter of hours looking at the RFC.
23:00 < codermattie> that is what I use
23:00 < Bradipo> Or there are some in ports/packages that you can install.
23:00 < armin> Bradipo: i don't want totp if i can anyhow circumvent having to use it.
23:00 < Bradipo> s/right/write/
23:00 < codermattie> I use a desktop 2fs called authenticator
23:00 < armin> it's okay, i can use that if i'm forced to, but i wouldn't force myself.
23:00 < Bradipo> armin: Yes, I understand.
23:00 < codermattie> there are tons of choices for 2fa clients
23:01 < armin> codermattie: the best thing is: there's a way of life without 2fa.
23:01 < Bradipo> Yeah, his complaint is the principle of requiring 2FA in the first place. :-)
23:01 < codermattie> I chose authenticator because it shows the seed
23:01 < armin> it just slows me down so much, i don't want it.
23:01 < Bradipo> 2FA is what I like to call "security theater".
23:01 < armin> ahahahahah :D
23:02 < codermattie> OTP was required at most of the jobs I have had
23:02 < Bradipo> If I'm given the chance to opt-in, I don't.  If I'm given the chance to opt-out, I do.
23:02 < armin> codermattie: i can't even explain how broken the stuff i see in my work life is.
23:02 < codermattie> everything was SASL/Yubikey
23:03 < Bradipo> But I also just "deal with it" in the cases where I have no choice.
23:03 < armin> Bradipo: i'm the guy to at least start some post-apocalyptic conversation about it.
23:05 < armin> Bradipo: it has always worked for the last 20 years or so, sometimes i didn't have a job, yes, but whatever, yolo, *BSD works fine if you're un-employed.
23:05 < codermattie> At a job they give you a mac if your technical, and a yubikey to VPN + Single Sign On
23:06 < armin> codermattie: i do have a macbook pro m1 from my company, no yubikey, we have SSO though.
23:06 < armin> codermattie: it's my favorite music making machine, i DJ with that thing, even in clubs.
23:07 < codermattie> at cloud companies security is more tight
23:07 < armin> codermattie: it also runs renoise and flstudio perfectly. admittedly, renoise would run on linux, too.
23:07 < armin> wat
23:07 < armin> i need booze.
23:08 < armin> there's no cloud. it's just other people's computers.
23:08 < Bradipo> "cloud" is a marketing concept, has no real technical value.
23:09 < armin> Bradipo: this.
23:09 < Bradipo> So yes, it's just someone elses computer.
23:09 < codermattie> more than computers , its personel and software
23:09 < armin> wat
23:09 < codermattie> like ops, and hundreds of services
23:09 < Bradipo> Sure, it's storing your data on someone elses computer and using someone elses software to access it.
23:09 < armin> ok i guess :)
23:10 < codermattie> For most clouds its just open source repackaged as a managed service and sold
23:10 < armin> cloud computing more like clown computing
23:13 < codermattie> each region has triple redundancy datacenters linked by massive pipes, and elastic scaling, hardly clowning around
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23:23 < Bradipo> Yes, it is definitely a feat to behold.
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23:24 < Bradipo> Still, I wouldn't put any of my own private data that isn't meant to be public on someone else's computer.
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--- Log closed Sat Oct 28 00:00:53 2023