--- Log opened Sat Oct 28 00:00:53 2023
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00:32 < apotheon> 23:01 < Bradipo> 2FA is what I like to call "security theater".
00:33 < apotheon> 2FA isn't "security theater", but what people *call* 2FA most of the time IS security theater.
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00:35 < apotheon> 23:05 < codermattie> At a job they give you a mac if your technical, and a yubikey to VPN + Single Sign On
00:35 < apotheon> "if you're technical"
00:36 < apotheon> I can only assume, then, that if you're non-technical you must get Windows, a Chromebook, or just a tablet.
00:36 < codermattie> windows
00:37 < codermattie> sometimes they ask what you want
00:38 < apotheon> "Mac with Ctrl and Alt buttons, please"
00:38 < apotheon> if those are my only options
00:38 < codermattie> Mac has ctrl and option/alt
00:38 < apotheon> or "different employer, please"
00:39 < apotheon> The last time I had to touch windows in my professional life was . . . 2005?
00:39 < Bradipo> Beato te.
00:39 < codermattie> managers use windows
00:40 < apotheon> Windows is one of the reasons I wouldn't want to be an accountant.
00:40 < apotheon> Slide decks is one of the reasons I wouldn't want to be a manager.
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00:41 < codermattie> I know one guy who used linux, but it took 4 days for him to get on the wifi, so I think I have better uses of my time
00:41 < Bradipo> Yeah, I wouldn't want a slippery deck either.
00:42 < apotheon> work in a place with a better network
00:42 < codermattie> I work for the highest pay, tools are just tools
00:42 < apotheon> I work for enough pay and working conditions that won't ruin my day every day.
00:43 < codermattie> I just put on headphones and book a conference room to myself
00:43 < apotheon> . . . though at this point I'm getting out of "tech" as a career path altogether.  I'm burned out on the constant dumpster fire.
00:43 < codermattie> life is good
00:43 < apotheon> codermattie: shit codebases and shit policies are work conditions
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00:45 < codermattie> all code is crap, if code was good it wouldnt need updates
00:45 < codermattie> if code was good they wouldnt need programmers
00:47 < codermattie> If I wanted to work on good code I would use scheme, but nobody pays for that
00:47 < apotheon> have fun with that
00:48 < codermattie> I love tail call optimization, so I do do that for fun
00:53 < vortexx> that's weird, squid 6.3 just got patched in -stable... but there's 6.4 in -stable too
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05:57 < tercaL> Good morning
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08:07 < renaud> sibiria: and, of course, you cannot make any reservation given there is no more capacity. That was the solution they provided.
08:11 < renaud> sibiria: if I understand well, if I power down any of my servers currently, I lose it.
08:12 < renaud> in France DC, there is no way to create any new VM
08:14 < lts> Did OVH burn again?
08:19 < renaud> oracle cloud
08:20 < renaud> they don't have enough capacity and are reclaiming it very hard
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14:15 < MaddieKalan> Am I dumb, why does acme-client say "domain list changed, forcing renewal" everytime I run it? https://emailaffinity.top/~mk/files/_k.a
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14:22 < quinq> strange
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14:42 < MaddieKalan> quinq: I even deleted the certificates in /etc/ssl and /etc/ssl/private/ before running the acme-client command twice because I had run it twice before.
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14:48 < quinq> I cannot help more than confirming that's unexpected
14:50 < MaddieKalan> The devs should add a ehh extra verbose mode or something.
14:51 < quinq> Well, the man-page do indicate “-v      Verbose operation.  Specify twice to also trace communication and data transfers.” (although I doubt you'll learn much about why it thinks the cert is outdated enough in the first place)
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16:28 < elagost> is there a way to sysupgrade from 6.9 to a release that's on the mirrors? I've been looking for mirrors that have 7.0 but no luck so far.
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16:29 < elagost> Maybe I posted too soon, found a mirror in Australia with 7.0.
16:30 < IcePic> elagost: ftp.eu. has all releases
16:30 < elagost> IcePic: noted - thank you!
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16:43 < sibiria> renaud: fully understandable that without reservations powering down the VM will deallocate the unit for someone else to allocate. but i do find it just bonkers that REBOOTING from the control panel also deallocates
16:43 < sibiria> renaud: you're on a paid tenancy, right?
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16:43 < remiliascarlet> MaddieKalan: Every time you edit the block of, in this case xmpp.thunderirc.net, it'll force renewal.
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18:14 < MaddieKalan> remiliascarlet: As you can see from the link I sent, I merely ran the command twice.  So it shouldn't force renew.
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19:15 < echelon> amazing, you can run openbsd on azure but not on aws https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/running-openbsd-on-azure/
19:16 < echelon> i used https://github.com/ajacoutot/aws-openbsd it booted, but couldn't get networking
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19:23 < echelon> looks like smallwall is dead
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19:27 < avemestr> Saw a bit on misc@ about that recently.
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19:28 < avemestr> That some old T2 instances or something should still work, but I haven't tried.
19:28 < echelon> yeah, t2's were the only ones that it will boot on because the other instance types require ENA nitro drivers or whatever
19:28 < echelon> which apparently freebsd has a driver for
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20:02 < hardkorebob> this is correct? pkg_info -QSHELL
20:04 < avemestr> Probably not.
20:04 < avemestr> What do you want to do?
20:05 < hardkorebob> it does work
20:05 < hardkorebob> should be fixed
20:05 < hardkorebob> try it
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20:05 < hardkorebob> put anything
20:05 < hardkorebob> pkg_info -Qxcolor
20:05 < hardkorebob> god forbid you do pkg_info -Qi lol
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20:06 < hardkorebob> bad habits from Penguin land
20:06 < hardkorebob> god forbid you do pkg_info -Qi ksh
20:07 < armin> ppl actually use openbsd on aws? that's interesting. 
20:07 < armin> doesn't aws allow uploading a custom iso?
20:08 < ssm_> https://0x0.st/HyMr.png current state of epiphany on hidpi if you aren't using gnome
20:08 < ssm_> how do you think people would feel about a gtk3/4 patch for no CSDs?
20:08 < ssm_> maybe a port flavor
20:08 < armin> ssm_: hiDPI was the reason i bought a 43" 4k tft monitor, just so i don't have to use hiDPI scaling anymore, i admit it.
20:08 < hardkorebob> possible to build obsd without perl?
20:09 < hardkorebob> just curious on the thoughts on that
20:09 < armin> hardkorebob: don't think so.
20:09 < armin> hardkorebob: a lot of obsd utilities are perl scripts.
20:09 < oldlaptop> The entire package management system is written in perl.
20:09 < oldlaptop> Some other bits and bobs are in perl as well, but nothing (I don't think) quite as important as pkg_foo.
20:09 < hardkorebob> armin, re write in awk or something
20:10 < armin> hardkorebob: hm, dunno, i like perl.
20:10 < hardkorebob> oldlaptop, aint possible to do a OBSD from scractch
20:10 < hardkorebob> Its ok to like it
20:10 < oldlaptop> I'm sure the computer comedy society would like to see your package manager written in awk.
20:10 < hardkorebob> Im just curious
20:10 < hardkorebob> oldlaptop, cool! Im a comedian by birth
20:10 < ssm_> armin: considering just using my display at half its normal resolution; maybe I can overclock it too
20:10 < hardkorebob> Im just asking seriously tho
20:10 < hardkorebob> is it a possible to do a obsd from scratch without perl
20:11 < armin> i could think of a full blown package management written in bash or sh, but meh, what's the point if something as good as openbsd's pkg_* exists...
20:11 < oldlaptop> No, perl is part of OpenBSD.
20:11 < hardkorebob> oldlaptop, ok
20:11 < hardkorebob> FORK!
20:11 < hardkorebob> lol
20:11 < oldlaptop> You could, in principle, put together a system without perl. That would be HardKoreBobBSD, not OpenBSD.
20:12 < armin> oldlaptop: :)
20:12 < hardkorebob> i never wanted to change the name
20:12 < hardkorebob> or keep it
20:12 < hardkorebob> technically its possible then
20:12 < hardkorebob> i mean anything is nowadays
20:12 < hardkorebob> even run it off an sd card into ram fully
20:12 < oldlaptop> (I also wouldn't expect anyone in here to be particularly eager to help you do that. It's certainly not a "supported" thing.)
20:12 < armin> we are the lizard kings, we can do anythings!
20:12 < hardkorebob> not looking for help
20:12 < hardkorebob> but cool thought to ask others 
20:13 < hardkorebob> not hiring anyone or recruiting just a plain user here
20:13 < oldlaptop> The OpenBSD source tree is out there for anyone (including you) to do anything you want with.
20:13 < hardkorebob> I know
20:13 < hardkorebob> lovely FOSS
20:13 < oldlaptop> Not everything you could possibly do with it (like, say, ripping out perl) would be a good idea.
20:14 < armin> hardkorebob: well communication is important, and even small-talk and lazytalk is important if you want to learn new things. todays society completely forgot about lazy IRCing. you need to to do that. i feel you. but don't be surprised if people try to move our nonsense talks to #openbsd-social instead.
20:14 < hardkorebob> oh ok
20:14 < hardkorebob> i move there
20:14 < armin> hah :D
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20:22 < ssm_> hardkorebob: `$ find /usr/src -type f -exec file {} + | grep -c /usr/bin/perl` == 761
20:22 < ssm_> yeah good luck with that
20:22 < hardkorebob> oh nice
20:22 < hardkorebob> ssm_, synchronicity
20:22 < hardkorebob> ??
20:22 < hardkorebob> find /etc -type f -exec file {} \; | grep "Perl"
20:23 < hardkorebob> Did that before during or after your msg w/o seeing ur msg
20:23 < ssm_> it took a few minutes to execute
20:23 < hardkorebob> no
20:23 < hardkorebob> 0
20:23 < ssm_> could have used parallel xargs to speed it up
20:23 < hardkorebob> nothing in my fs
20:23 < hardkorebob> lol
20:24 < ssm_> you need to fetch the source tree to have anything in /usr/src
20:24 < ssm_> read https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html
20:25 < ssm_> note the default partition size for /usr isn't big enough to hold the source trees though, you'll likely want to create separate partitions for /usr/{src,xenocara,ports}
20:25 < ssm_> and xobj and obj
20:26 < oldlaptop> You'll also probably not find all that many mentions of "Perl" with a capital P.
20:26 < hardkorebob> lol oops
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20:28 < ssm_> `$ time find /usr/src -type f -print0 | xargs -0P$(sysctl -n hw.ncpuonline) file | grep -c /usr/bin/perl` for sp33d
20:29 < ssm_> s/time //
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20:32 < ssm_> took about a 4th the time on my 4 core cpu, to no one's surprise
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20:41 < miojo> wtf people has against Perl? in what f*cked up world, rewrite tools already nice and usefull in *sh is a sane idea?
20:42 < miojo> as a punishment, please go for it. And leave people doing real work, alone.
20:43 < hardkorebob> miojo, never bothered real work or ppl i hope. if i did well i wont chat here. i dont hate perl. first lang i started with actually. 
20:44 < hardkorebob> obsd tools are nice 
20:44 < hardkorebob> thanks to the real folk who did it
20:44 < CNOT> we should burn a witch
20:44 < CNOT> its time
20:45 < thrig> apropos which
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21:00 < ssm_> miojo: you're gone, but perl IS in /usr/src/gnu, which implies it's not wanted in the source tree
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21:16 < vortexx> can't have a perl discussion without adding the obligatory "but why isn't it written in rust?" comment :p
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21:19 < zyxer> Puffy is supposed to be bloaty, not the binaries
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21:30 < ssm_> vortexx: something something malloc UB and leak sanitization
21:32 < ssm_> if you can sanitize UB and leaks, what's even the usecase of rust
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21:42 < vortexx> hehe
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21:51 < hardkorebob> https://bpa.st/2ERQ all that to change the color?? of my view?
21:51 < hardkorebob> gotta be a simpler way
21:52 < thrig> xrandr --output TODOFIXME --gamma 1.0:1.0:0.000001
21:53 < hardkorebob> thrig, GOD I LOVE U
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21:56 < zyxer> ssm_: If it wasn't for the fact rust is progressing so fast that last weeks code is outdated I would be able to mention at least like 3 reasons for rust
21:57 < hardkorebob> progressing or getting even more abstract?
21:57 < ssm_> zyxer: that sounds like a very good reason not to use rust
21:57 < hardkorebob> Is C being updated as we update OpenBSD code? or is its functionality still the same? or is that for some other group to worry about?
21:58 < hardkorebob> isnt the security of something based on its most basis... like obviously u cant have security if i have a decoder of your cpu freq and can remotly gather what u looking at
21:58 < ssm_> hardkorebob: check cvs diffs on src:lib/libc
21:58 < hardkorebob> ssm_, ok cool
21:58 < hardkorebob> is that mean that yes to some of my questions?
21:59 < ssm_> updating libc isn't the same as changing the standard a whole bunch
21:59 < hardkorebob> I see
21:59 < hardkorebob> so updating rust is why its code is outdated
21:59 < hardkorebob> 2 diff birds
21:59 < hardkorebob> ???
21:59 < phy1729> zyxer: that's not how that works at all, but also isn't topical here
21:59 < hardkorebob> again my bad
21:59 < hardkorebob> with the ot
21:59 < hardkorebob> i never know whats related
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22:03 < hussein1> any quick way of getting a random line from a file?
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22:08 < mischief> hussein1: shuf from coreutils
22:08 < mischief> or there's probably a perl 1-liner..
22:08 < thrig> perl -e 'rand $. < 1 and ($r = $_) while <>; print $r'
22:08 < ssm_> hussein1: has modulo bias, but `awk -v line_idx=$(( RANDOM % $(wc -l file | awk '{print $1}') + 1 )) 'NR == line_idx {print $0}' file`
22:09 < thrig> that's going to be slow, too
22:09 < ssm_> if speed's a problem, just write a short C program to do it
22:09 < thrig> I did
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22:11 < hussein1> thanks
22:14 < hussein1> any examples of a program that uses sysctls to create network interfaces? i tried looking at ifconfig but found it pretty convoluted
22:19 < mischief> try looking at ifconfig
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22:21 < phy1729> Looks like you'd need SIOCIFCREATE documented in netstart(4), but that's ioctl not sysctl
22:22 < hardkorebob> thats a cool awk trick
22:22 < hardkorebob> works nice
22:22 < hardkorebob> but i can make the perl a ksh alias
22:22 < hardkorebob> not the awk one
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22:29 < armin> 00:09 [ ssm_] if speed's a problem, just write a short C program to do it
22:29 < armin> yup
22:29 < zyxer> Unix one liner = One sentence paragraph
22:29 < armin> <- writes very weird one liners
22:30 < hardkorebob> i love oneliners
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22:33 < hardkorebob> hows go lang in obsd???
22:34 < phy1729> probably broken right now due to syscall being neutered
22:35 < hardkorebob> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25997506
22:35 < hardkorebob> this ^
22:35 < hardkorebob> ?
22:35 < zyxer> Doesn't go lang do telemetry things now?
22:36 < phy1729> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=169841790407370&w=2 also please don't use the enter key as punctuation
22:36 -!- daugaard [~daugaard@nat-cgn9-185-107-12-178.static.kviknet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
22:36 < hardkorebob> so many rules
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22:43 < echoSMILE> Hi. I just saw it, if some operator of this channel wants the nick "OpenBSD" just let me know.
22:44 < echoSMILE> For bot stuff or whatever.
22:45 < armin> that's not ok, we want the bot's name to be "echoSMILE" instead.
22:45 < echoSMILE> ?!
22:45 -!- mystic [~mystic@user/mystic] has joined #openbsd
22:45 < armin> ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
22:46 < armin> dunno, thx for the offer i guess, i just tried to be funny.
22:46 < echoSMILE> that was not intense :P https://yewtu.be/watch?v=6UoNXz0Ox-g
22:47 < armin> oh, armin van buuren
22:47 < armin> i actually am a DJ myself, but the stuff i play is a bit, well, more intense. :P
22:48  * ssm_ points echoSMILE at www/minitube
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22:49 < ssm_> well I would, if I knew how to copy an invidious api key for the GOOGLE_API_KEY env var
22:50 < ssm_> I use my own api key with that port, and it's very slow (google doesn't like you getting around their ads I'm guessing)
22:50 < armin> <- still dreams of a world without web browsers
22:51 < ssm_> dynamic web content and its consequences has been a disaster for the human race
22:51 < armin> ssm_: i tried to be a bit less dramatic, but yes.
22:51 < ssm_> I quote the unabomber every chance I get
22:52 < armin> this whole modern web stuff, i don't get how we got there
22:53 < armin> can i see these mailboxes via 56k modems again?
22:53 < ssm_> corporation pushing new shiny (un)polished turd, as far as I can tell
22:53 < thrig> the turd is very well chromed
22:53 < armin> you can't polish a turd.
22:53 < armin> haha
22:53 < ssm_> tell that to the ports team
22:53 < thrig> you can. mythbusters polished some
22:53 < phy1729> ssm_: Let's not idolize murderers.
22:54 < ssm_> phy1729: every positive change in human history has been attained through antisocial means
22:55 < ssm_> and that's why I use reiserfs
22:55 < armin> bah i had the shock moment of my life because there was something cold metallic at my foot (I'm in bed). it was a macbook... o.O
22:55 < armin> *breathing*
22:56 < echoSMILE> ssm_: anything similar for spotify ?
22:57 < echoSMILE> pvm me
22:58 < armin> meh, spotify, i'm postponing cancelling that damn thing since months now.
22:58 < armin> i should really just cancel that.
22:59 < echoSMILE> Any app for spotify at OpenBSD ?
23:00 < armin> your web browser of choice?
23:00 < typicat> pkg_info -Q ncspot
23:01 < echoSMILE> armin, I like web, but for some things I prefer console or a GUI
23:05 < ssm_> echoSMILE: `find /usr/ports/ -type f -name DESCR -print0 | xargs -0P$(sysctl -n hw.ncpuonline) grep -il spotify` gives me navidrome and ncspot, navidrome seems unrelated, so ncspot's the only thing ported
23:06 < echoSMILE> typicat: tks
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23:34 < codermattie> If you dont want a music streaming service you can buy music and download it: linnrecords, hdtracks, qobuz, prostudiomasters
23:35 < codermattie> all of those sites let you download hi res flacs
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23:37 < echoSMILE> Tks
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23:39  * oldlaptop would also note https://mpd.readthedocs.io/en/stable/plugins.html#qobuz
23:39 < oldlaptop> (Don't think there are any other streaming-service plugins that work at the moment)
23:40 < codermattie> Spotify has the worst quality of them all
23:41 < oldlaptop> although as a general matter I couldn't advise paying for "24-bit Hi-Res" audio
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23:41 < oldlaptop> no matter what the people asking for your money say, you can't actually hear all those extra zeroes
23:41 < codermattie> oldlaptop: depends on your equipment
23:41 < codermattie> not necesarily 24 bit but the hz yes
23:41 < oldlaptop> The equipment mounted to your head is the limiting factor.
23:41 < oldlaptop> For sampling rate too.
23:43 < codermattie> If you dont want the hi-res stuff you can buy cd quality for cheaper
23:44 < oldlaptop> That would be an excellent idea for human listeners.
23:44 < echoSMILE> Everything will need to follow the OSS mindset, music for sure. 
23:44 < echoSMILE> Then come licenses again, lawyers win once again too \o/
23:45 < oldlaptop> Canine customers might be interested in the ultrasound-included version, although they'll have trouble finding the transducers.
23:45 < oldlaptop> (Even they can't hear the extra zeroes, though)
23:49 < codermattie> Ive tested my gear on people who dont know what hardware they are listening to and they have all noticed a difference , and my technical friend said that I was limited only by production and mastering quality
23:49 < codermattie> so I look for good production artistts
23:51 < oldlaptop> If your "gear" is well-engineered, it should be filtering *out* ultrasound before it gets very far, so it can't cause problems.
23:52 < codermattie> I use SoundSource to do that kind of stuff in software
23:52 < codermattie> It exposes the sound api
23:53 < oldlaptop> (Encoding ultrasound being the only thing sampling rates much above 40KHz are good for in a distribution-format context; 48KHz is used mainly because it's a reasonably round number, and 44.1 is used for hysterical raisins.)
23:55 < codermattie> Production quality dominates, most of my metal sounds terrible, the classical is much better
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23:55 < oldlaptop> Yes, that's much more important. (And may be *somewhat* correlated with DSP-parameter snake oil, but probably not as strongly so as you'd hope)
23:57 < oldlaptop> Realistically speaking, CDDA's PCM parameters (not "DSP-parameter", although I guess that still fits) are a pretty good (and efficient) fit to human biology - a *little* more than really necessary, but I think we can forgive them for being a little bit wasteful
23:58 < oldlaptop> hard to appreciate how mind-bogglingly *huge* a Red Book CD is by late-'70s/early-'80s standards
23:58 < codermattie> those were terrible years
23:58 < codermattie> the loudness wars
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23:59 < codermattie> red hot chili peppers was clipping it was so compressed
--- Log closed Sun Oct 29 00:00:23 2023