--- Log opened Sun Oct 29 00:00:23 2023
--- Day changed Sun Oct 29 2023
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00:00 < oldlaptop> That's the really silly thing about "24-bit hi-res". Even with the loudness stuff a bit off its peak, not many real recordings are using anywhere near 16 bits worth of dynamic range.
00:02 < codermattie> Ive gone back to classical, modern music is just a synthetic beat and a singer trying to rap
00:06 < sibiria> 24 bits worth of amplitude resolution on line level is also a few orders of magnitude pointless
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00:06 < sibiria> already at 16 bits resolution is finer than the THD in the cable, in the amp, in the headphones/speakers etc.
00:07 < sibiria> but 24 bits make some sense for mastering
00:08  * oldlaptop is given to understand the production people *really* prefer floats for the more or less total immunity to clipping
00:08 < thrig> gold-plated floats, even
00:08 < sibiria> with atoms polarized in the correct direction for optimal flow of current
00:09 < codermattie> or low resistance caables
00:10 < codermattie> ultra pure copper, silver, rhodium
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00:24 < zyxer> How can I make my screen monochromatic using xorg?
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00:28 < codermattie> can you turn the color down on your monitor?
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00:30 < ludovicus> I remember trying to change some config to get 1-bpp video but it messed everything up
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00:33 < oldlaptop> not many X clients get tested for 1bpp this century
00:34 < oldlaptop> I imagine you would need Xorg.conf nonsense to force reduced color space in general nowadays. It's not going to be a particularly well-tested configuration.
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00:36 < oldlaptop> https://man.openbsd.org/man5/xorg.conf.5#DISPLAY_SUBSECTION appears promising in that regard (if "promising" is the word)
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00:37 < pardis> if you turn down your screen's brightness, your cone cells will be less effective at detecting colour
00:38 < codermattie> If your red-green color blind you can use an external monitor and turn the color all the way down, Ive never seen much acccessibility stuff in xorg, I doubt you can get below 16 colors
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00:41 < oldlaptop> https://man.openbsd.org/man5/xorg.conf.5#Visual "The visual type available for the depth 1..."
00:41 < oldlaptop> (one bit per pixel permits two (2) colors)
00:41 < oldlaptop> remember how old X is; two-color displays remained commercially relevant at least up to the late '80s/early '90s or so
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00:57 < vortexx> oldlaptop: indeed, Atari sold the Atari TT with a High Res monitor in 1bit (and there was Atari SVR4 which could use X11 in 1280x960 on a 19")
00:58 < codermattie> My TI-96 was color
00:58 < vortexx> (a rather rare example, but not unusual for the time to reach those kinds of resolution, remember NeXT did 1152x864 in 2bit greyscale)
00:58 < oldlaptop> ISTR sun had 1bpp (or at least monochrome) stuff in the catalog up into the early '90s
00:58 < codermattie> and that was the 80's
00:58 < vortexx> codermattie: yeah but in 300x240?
00:58 < oldlaptop> codermattie: At the cost of drastically lower resolution.
00:59 < oldlaptop> There was a real tradeoff in those days, RAM being *way* more expensive than we're used to.
00:59 < codermattie> Im not sure about the res, I think it was hooked up to a TV
01:00 < codermattie> yeah, it was a TV
01:00 < oldlaptop> Yeah, consumer micros hooked up to color TVs are a completely different category from hi-res workstation monochrome monitors.
01:00 < oldlaptop> (Some of those saw commercial sales. Early Macs, obviously. Hercules for IBM-compatibles.)
01:00 < vortexx> colour displays were around by the early 80s for consumers but colour above 640x480 took a while longer, especially 24bit
01:01 < oldlaptop> Er. Consumer sales, I mean.
01:02 < oldlaptop> 1024x768x8 is well over 6MiB. Not cheap back then.
01:03 < oldlaptop> Even 4bpp (sixteen colors) is a fair chunk of memory at that resolution.
01:03 < vortexx> more than what an Amiga 1200/4000 could push without an RTG gfx card
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01:04 < vortexx> although that was 92
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01:05 < oldlaptop> Also exactly twice what those old Macs did at 1bpp.
01:05 < vortexx> I never understood the attraction of those
01:05 < vortexx> such a small screen
01:05 < vortexx> but then falling in love with your computer was an 80s thing
01:06 < vortexx> and people would defend them to the end
01:07 < codermattie> because DOS sucked ass
01:07 < oldlaptop> It's *usable*, and that kind of resolution that early covers some sins
01:07 < oldlaptop> Why macs survived and amigas did not, though...
01:08 < vortexx> management, mostly
01:08 < dlg> sometimes it's not just about technology
01:08 < oldlaptop> :(
01:08 < dlg> huggz
01:08 < codermattie> apple always had good marketing
01:08 < oldlaptop> I suppose there probably is still someone selling "amigas", isn't there?
01:08 < dlg> not always
01:09 < vortexx> oldlaptop: nope, nothing new as far as I know. There's been the phoenix a1k boards, but they're for people who have the original A1000
01:09 < oldlaptop> I'm thinking these sorts of things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOne_X1000
01:10 < vortexx> but it's emulated pretty well now, to the point you can run AMIX (Commodore Amiga SVR4) which is a real test of compatibility
01:12 < vortexx> oh those... yeah AmigaOS 4.x vs 3.x is kinda like Mac OS X vs 9
01:13 < oldlaptop> hence "amigas"
01:13 < vortexx> someone is producing kickstart 3.2 and AmigaOS 3.2 for people with the m68k hw
01:14 < vortexx> OpenBSD up to 2.9 iirc runs on m68k Amigas
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01:16 < vortexx> I guess mid 80s high res colour was on SGI workstations?
01:17 < vortexx> they'd be the obvious ones
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01:18 < zyxer> Man I just don't want the color psyops  
01:18 < codermattie> zyxer: what psyops?
01:18 < zyxer> And not all screens can simulate monochromacy
01:19 < zyxer> The colors. You need to have digital security and mind security
01:19 < codermattie> are the feds glowing?
01:19 < zyxer> The coloring and design of sites is over a trillion dollar industry to make you notice things in a specific way
01:19 < armin> codermattie: that's LEDs, not FEDs.
01:19 < codermattie> try templeOS, it was written by a paranoid schizo
01:20 < vortexx> zyxer: I'm sure ebay has some cheap old TFTs that are 1bit
01:20 < zyxer> I quit color on phone, and after 1 week not only did I feel better but real life was much prettier. You get nulled to colors and the screens colors are extremely saturated
01:20 < codermattie> terry davis who wrote templeOS said he ran over some feds who glowed in the dark
01:21 < zyxer> Throughout the entirety of history strong colors were rare and special
01:21 < zyxer> In nature you see mostly green and blue
01:21 < zyxer> Aurora borrealis was the most colorful display, and when ppl look at the stars today they can't tell that they differ in color
01:22 < zyxer> Because we are so nullified to colors, strong colors on screen all the time. 
01:22 < zyxer> Ppl saw Venus as a red planet, not the reddest tho'. And neptune a blue
01:22 < zyxer> Today we just see them all as white. 
01:23 < zyxer> vortexx: Yea but almost nothing works on those panels
01:23 < vortexx> btw the Amiga 3000 could do (with a special screen, the A1024) 1024x1000 in PAL and 1024x800 in NTSC in 1bit. I've done it in WinUAE, it's nice to use for multiple terminals. In real life the refresh rate was so low it hurt your eyes
01:23 < zyxer> You need to fake/simulate monochromacy, even terminals today expect a minimum set of colors
01:23 < zyxer> I can't run kitty terminal on my iMac G3
01:23 < zyxer> not even st terminal
01:24 < vortexx> use the old stuff, not current stuff
01:24 < armin> <3 st
01:24 < zyxer> I try to compile and still, error when launching
01:24 < codermattie> zyxer: are you an astronomer?
01:24 < zyxer> Well, I still want my monochromacy on screens
01:24 < vortexx> heads up, new php in -stable
01:25 < zyxer> The colors are trillion dollar industry, literally used for psyops. I have barely any need for color anyway. If content isn't interesting without colors you are probs just hypnotised by the colors. 
01:26 < codermattie> movies and photos are what I need colors for, and syntax highlighting
01:26 < zyxer> Animals and humansas wellreact very differently to x if it is strongly colored or not
01:26 < armin> zyxer: "cool-retro-term" might work for you.
01:26 < zyxer> Syntax I agree
01:26 < codermattie> Im using it right now and it works great, I just use orange
01:27 < vortexx> how do you run redshift? is there a greyscale version?
01:27 < zyxer> But even movies I watch in black and white (android tablet, well phone but I use it as tablet, android has monochromacy setting)
01:27 < zyxer> armin: Thanks for tip
01:27 < codermattie> so you dont use syntax highlighting?
01:28 < zyxer> That I use
01:28 < codermattie> must be hard matching those parens
01:28 < zyxer> Only case Iwant color, syntax highlighting. But I set it to have low saturation instead of being super strong color
01:29 < codermattie> zyxer: everyone is out to get you, your picking one tactic, when your surrounded like custer
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01:35 < vortexx> lol clocks went back in Europe and firefox decided to default to daytime appearance
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01:35 < zyxer> What
01:35 < zyxer> Not everyone is out to get anyone
01:36 < zyxer> Thr issue is the minority. Cyber security is to protect you from a minority
01:36 < zyxer> I don't expect my neighbor to hack me or spend trillions on marketing and how to use color to improve it.
01:37 < zyxer> When you protect yourself it is always against a minority, if you have to protect yourself from the majority then I don't think you live in anything that is reminiscent of civilisation
01:38 < zyxer> You think the coloration and color themes on big platforms is a coincidence?
01:38 < vortexx> not when I see pink and blue, but that is nothing to do with OpenBSD
01:38 < zyxer> Trillion dollar industry. To keep your attention on nonesense. Such as not thinking of cybersecurity
01:39 < zyxer> True. This started with me asking how to simulate monochromacy on OpenBSD
01:40 < zyxer> And then ppl kinda making fun of me for not wanting color (or well, asked why and I answered honestly)
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01:40 < codermattie> zyxer: Im not making fun of you, I just have a certain style, I first asked if you were color blind
01:41 < zyxer> oldlaptop: I tried that https://man.openbsd.org/man5/xorg.conf.5#Visual
01:41 < zyxer> But it didn't work, refused to start xenodm
01:42 < oldlaptop> The place to check for syntax errors (which, without seeing what you did, seems like the most obvious guess) would be /var/log/Xorg.0.log or so
01:42 < oldlaptop> You are unlikely to find anyone who cares very much if it just doesn't work.
01:43 < vortexx> zyxer: so you used StaticGray in a custom xorg.conf ?
01:43 < zyxer> I think xorg and all GUI things expect color things
01:44 < vortexx> Xorg also has -depth and -fbbbp but I'm not sure how you invoke those via xenodm
01:44 < zyxer> vortexx: ... Hmm... It was some time ago, maybe not that specific but I tried the settings that changed colordepth
01:44 < vortexx> the root solution is to get Xorg working in 1bpp
01:45 < zyxer> No GUI will work then. Even terminals expect some coloring. (maybe not that which was suggested today tho')
01:45 < vortexx> but maybe your xorg driver doesn't support 1bpp (I've no idea, we don't often hear from the 1bpp crowd)
01:45 < zyxer> Simulating monochromacy keeps all compatibility
01:45 < vortexx> xterm will work, older WMs will work (I bet twm works in 1bpp)
01:46 < vortexx> fvwm2 *might*
01:46 < zyxer> Hmm.... 
01:47 < vortexx> cwm might work?
01:47 < vortexx> (I'm not a cwm user)
01:48 < mischief> new spectrwm release a few days ago.. quite nice changes :-)
01:51 < vortexx> iirc back in the XFree86 days we had a VGAMono driver
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01:51 < tux0r> CDE is enough
01:51 < vortexx> NeXTSTEP's GUI was a million times better thand CDE :P
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01:52 < tux0r> window maker is easier to set up. thats it, mostly :p
01:52 < vortexx> don't you like the applets?
01:52 < vortexx> (well, those we still have... solene removed a whole slew of them about 15 releases ago)
01:53 < remiliascarlet> I tried NeXTSTEP before, but it relies way too much on switching between mouse and keyboard, but it sure is a unique experience.
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01:53 < oldlaptop> remiliascarlet: that's what a trackpoint is for
01:53 < tux0r> the applets are mostly distractions
01:53 < oldlaptop> (not that NeXT ever sold those, of course)
01:53 < vortexx> remiliascarlet: just remember the first version came out in 1989 and it had TCP/IP out of the box
01:53 < oldlaptop> on which topic https://tex.com.tw/collections/keyboard </spam>
01:54 < vortexx> tux0r: decorations that make you happy, I'd call them
01:54 < remiliascarlet> oldlaptop: I know, but I'm one of those weirdoes who prefers to just use the keyboard for everything except for graphics editing, video editing, and gaming. Even though the trackpoint is literally in the middle of the keyboard.
01:55 < oldlaptop> Probably not so weird in this crowd
01:55 < vortexx> oldlaptop: that looks quite useful actually, thanks
01:55 < oldlaptop> vortexx: If you're in their target market, the one image really is enough
01:55 < vortexx> every datacenter should have those
01:56 < remiliascarlet> And good luck finding a keyboard that has a trackpoint, a jp106 layout, and is a mechanical keyboard at the same time.
01:56 < tux0r> all keyboards are mechanical
01:56 < tux0r> that said, IIRC there is a model M with a trackpoint?
01:56 < oldlaptop> (The "Shinobi" is a very close copy of the layout on the last pre-island thinkpads, and specifically the one lenovo USB keyboard that now sells for... rather more than the Shinobi, apparently)
01:56 < vortexx> remiliascarlet: US layout is all anyone needs to edit config files :P 
01:57 < vortexx> (and I use chf101
01:57 < vortexx> )
01:57 < oldlaptop> tux0r: There is. It's not a 'modern' trackpoint, it corresponds to mid-90s thinkpads
01:57 < remiliascarlet> Would require me to rewire my brain every single day between US and JP layouts.
01:57 < oldlaptop> (which is IIRC (been a while since I daily-drove those...) still better than synaptics' knockoffs)
01:58 < remiliascarlet> There are extra buttons on the JP layouts, so it's not just a matter of using keyboard stickers.
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01:58 < oldlaptop> remiliascarlet: https://tex.com.tw/cdn/shop/products/2020-05-16_122712_600x600.png?v=1592296598
01:58 < oldlaptop> Make of that what you will
01:58 < vortexx> european keylayouts need extra keys too
01:58 < tux0r> oldlaptop: my only thinkpad was a T60, pretty ok to use
01:58 < oldlaptop> (I only have the US one.)
01:59 < oldlaptop> tux0r: T60 is 'modern' (in the sense of being pretty much the pinnacle - or end, anyway - of IBM's trackpoint development)
01:59 < tux0r> yeah.. it still was mostly IBM though
01:59 < codermattie> trackpoints are to easy to bump by accident
02:00 < oldlaptop> vortexx: There's at least one of them with an AltGr and some funny-looking symbols in there too
02:00 < remiliascarlet> oldlaptop: Nice! Are there any that are more like the X200/X60/X41 and so on? Never worked with X220 layout, so I feel like the erected "Delete" and "Esc" keys might not feel right.
02:00 < oldlaptop> (the layout is also software-remappable. RE-ing the javascript webapp thingy that generates the layout files is a one-of-these-days project)
02:00 < oldlaptop> remiliascarlet: I don't believe so.
02:00 < vortexx> alt-gr and \ on the key next to the left shift, otherwise you run into all kinds of problems when using Windows VMs
02:01 < oldlaptop> https://tex.com.tw/cdn/shop/products/2020-05-16_122712_600x600.png?v=1592296598 was limited production
02:01 < oldlaptop> (and was not as close a clone)
02:01 < vortexx> yeah EU-ISO-De would do it
02:01 < vortexx> for me
02:02 < vortexx> s/De/DE
02:02 < oldlaptop> remiliascarlet: FWIW, the giant-escape layout is more or less the same-ish as the old ones. Easy enough to adapt, anyway.
02:03 < oldlaptop> (Although I cannot speak for Japanese variants.)
02:03 < ssm_> remiliascarlet: I have a stack of old thinkpads, and they all share the same problem, the plastic is getting so old and brittle you can't safely take the things apart without breaking something. I've since switched to a framework laptop, not cheap, but the cheaper upgrades will hopefully make up for that (much easier to maintain than a thinkpad too, if you can believe it)
02:03 < remiliascarlet> All programs should use the Vim keybindings, until you're a user of a DVORAK, QWERTZ, AZERTY, or whatever other non-QWERTY layout, and it becomes completely awkward.
02:03 < tux0r> ugh.
02:03 < oldlaptop> On the real thinkpads the reduced travel for the upper two rows is what really stands out, IMO
02:04 < oldlaptop> (No idea why they did that.)
02:04 < tux0r> remiliascarlet: using emacs is surprisingly straightforward on a model f with ctrl where caps lock would be :p
02:04 < vortexx> ssm_: how's the 3:2 screen layout working out for you?
02:04 < remiliascarlet> ssm_: I looked into the Framework laptop before, but last I checked they don't ship to any non-western country, so I can't get one.
02:04 < oldlaptop> ssm_: Broken plastic is getting to be... recoverable, nowadays.
02:05 < oldlaptop> On which topic, there is now a full CAD-to-Gcode 3D printing toolchain in ports \o/
02:05 < vortexx> remiliascarlet: buy a second hand one on ebay?
02:05 < oldlaptop> pretty big milestone for the release, I would say
02:05 < vortexx> do you not know someone who travels to the US on a regular basis to get the new bits for you?
02:05 < ssm_> vortexx: love it, would prefer 4:3, but it's not far off
02:06 < vortexx> ssm_: I'm on 16:10 which works really well for my GUI. 3:2 will be interesting when I move to a framework once this laptop is done (it's nowhere near being that)
02:06  * oldlaptop has precisely zero interest in framework until they ship a trackpoint
02:06 < vortexx> oldlaptop: that may yet happen, or as a third party mod
02:06 < oldlaptop> (Or someone does it for them, anyway.)
02:07 < oldlaptop> vortexx: That would be nice. Until it does, useless
02:07 < vortexx> if they survive another revision or two of the motherboards, I reckon it's likely
02:07 < oldlaptop> (Not really even half-joking.)
02:07 < vortexx> there's enough of you trackpoint people out there
02:07 < remiliascarlet> vortexx: Just tried it out: "frameworkノートパソコンの結果0件 完全一致が見つかりませんでした" (framework laptop results:0. couldn't be found)
02:07 < oldlaptop> ...I hope so.
02:08 < vortexx> remiliascarlet: I looked on ebay like 4 months ago and there were some, let me look now
02:08 < oldlaptop> If the 'standard' i3 print bed were a liiiiitle bit bigger I'd be seriously thinking about bodging something onto one of those Shinobi chassis.
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02:09 < oldlaptop> (It's about the right size and shape for a reasonable 4:3 machine, and probably enough room inside the case for some kind of weeny little ARM board.)
02:09 < remiliascarlet> What is funny is that Ebay thinks that "framework laptop" is somehow related to "chainsaw man".
02:10 < codermattie> my framework works great
02:11 < codermattie> the ability to reconfigure the hardware is handy
02:11 < vortexx> remiliascarlet: https://tinyurl.com/2aenjay3 first response, ships internationaly from Canada
02:11 < vortexx> there's a couple others in my search too
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02:12 < vortexx> oldlaptop: what's the attraction of 4:3? nostalgia?
02:12 < remiliascarlet> vortexx: One problem: "日本へ配送されない場合があります。"
02:12 < remiliascarlet> No shipping to here.
02:13 < vortexx> yeah I was wondering if that would come up
02:13 < codermattie> remiliascarlet: did you try framework? mine shipped from taiwan
02:14 < oldlaptop> vortexx: No such implication intended, it's just roughly what the shape happens to be
02:14 < oldlaptop> I *would* rather have tall than wide in a laptop given the choice, though.
02:14 < vortexx> oldlaptop: oh right
02:14 < oldlaptop> (I'm sure I'd like 3:2 just fine.)
02:14 < vortexx> yeah tall is fairly useful
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02:15 < oldlaptop> The thinkpad-themed box (yes, really) they ship in (or mine shipped in) is closer to 5:4, I think
02:16 < vortexx> my first vaio was 10.6" 1024x768 so 4:3 (with big bezels on the side so they could put a Bluetooth activation button and speakers on it)
02:16 < remiliascarlet> codermattie: https://frame.work/locale/edit Try to change "Country or Region" to "Taiwan", and then to "Japan", and notice the differences.
02:16 < oldlaptop> don't think anyone's hurrying to make 5:4 laptops, though :(
02:16 < vortexx> yeah I doubt that too
02:17 < vortexx> I'd like a laptop that unfolded into 21:9 though
02:17 < codermattie> remiliascarlet: Oh I said from Taiwan, i am US
02:17 < remiliascarlet> I tried a few more countries. They ship to Taiwan, but not to Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, and (Trump's voice) CHINA.
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02:18 < codermattie> did you try the kit or the pre-built
02:18 < codermattie> ?
02:18  * oldlaptop would expect they ship *from* Taiwan
02:18 < remiliascarlet> Neither do they ship to Macau or Hong Kong.
02:18 < vortexx> those are China these days
02:19 < remiliascarlet> They are listed separately on the site though.
02:19 < vortexx> oldlaptop: I was under the impression that some of it is made in the US
02:19 < vortexx> remiliascarlet: probably legacy address API
02:21 < remiliascarlet> If that's the case, then that's not really helpful if you need to place an order to ship to that specific country.
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02:21 < remiliascarlet> But I'm fine with my collection of old ThinkPads.
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02:22 < vortexx> remiliascarlet: as I said, find someone who travels to the US on a regular basis, and have them bring one back, if you have someone you can trust
02:23 < remiliascarlet> I can still get replacement parts from Yahoo Auctions, and even the replacement keyboards work like brand new.
02:23 < vortexx> or even someone who travels to Taiwan
02:23 < remiliascarlet> I have nobody like that. Everyone I know has never been overseas before.
02:25 < remiliascarlet> And past experience with trusting people has always been that I can't trust other people at all.
02:25 < vortexx> well... organize the next hackathon, and ask one of devs in North America to do you a favour :)
02:25 < vortexx> yeah I could believe that
02:25 < vortexx> it's hard trusting people with 2000 dollars of computing
02:26 < remiliascarlet> Oh, I just learned that the Shinobi is a mechanical keyboard, and has blue caps too!
02:27 < remiliascarlet> So definitely added to my to buy list.
02:27 < oldlaptop> remiliascarlet: Yes, Cherry MX switches.
02:27 < oldlaptop> They also sell them as kits, with some kind of "hot-swap" mechanism, so presumably you can source whatever other funny things you want that fit the MX footprint
02:28 < remiliascarlet> Sounds even better than my current Logicool keyboard then.
02:28 < codermattie> you could dig around on the mechanical keyboard reddit and such and find someone to build a custom keyboard for you
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02:29 < remiliascarlet> Meh, Shinobi already seems to offer everything I want.
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02:30 < remiliascarlet> TrackPoint, jp106 layout, blue Cherry MX switches.
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02:30 < remiliascarlet> Nice to haves would be a 10-key pad, but I can get a separate one as well.
02:31 < remiliascarlet> The other concern is the amount of space it looks like it's going to take.
02:31 < oldlaptop> remiliascarlet: The keycap legends fade fairly quickly IME. If you actually like MX blues, I can't come up with any other serious downside.
02:31 < oldlaptop> (Other than the layout-remapping thing being a webapp that could go poof someday. It's the kind of thing that should be feasible to reverse-engineer if it comes to that.)
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02:32 < oldlaptop> https://tex.com.tw/collections/keyboard/products/shura?variant=42840179409051 is less space, but/because not trying to clone thinkpad layout
02:32 < oldlaptop> Can't say much else about it specifically.
02:33 < remiliascarlet> And cheeper too.
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02:33 < oldlaptop> (Apparently the US layout ships with double-shot keycaps, which would fade approximately never. Looks like the others still get lasered legends, which probably behave exactly the same.)
02:34 < remiliascarlet> Take away the arrow keys, and you're completely dependent on every single software having Vim keybindings.
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02:35 < oldlaptop> I assume you'd map the Fn row et al. to the Fn layer.
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02:37 < remiliascarlet> And doing so is exactly what I dislike about all modern laptops. Keys like "home", "end", "page up", and "page down" are all mapped to Fn key combinations, and "delete" and "insert" are either mapped to Fn combinations, or located in the most awkward possible locations.
02:38 < codermattie> I still have print screen
02:39 < codermattie> all the buttons you mentioned
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02:39 < codermattie> I dont even have a fn button
02:40 < oldlaptop> vortexx: Apparently this is an upcoming system76 product. https://fosstodon.org/@carlrichell/110571781656976874
02:40 < oldlaptop> They will not be able to take my money fast enough if they ship that.
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02:42 < oldlaptop> (Supposing decent trackpoint hardware, anyway. The unicomp one (which they don't sell now) was a disappointment in that respect.)
02:42 < codermattie> I had a system76, it was terrible
02:42 < vortexx> oldlaptop: remember to not doxx yourself in the comment section :) glad they're paying attention to your demographic
02:43 < vortexx> codermattie: details please?
02:43 < codermattie> Stupid thing woke up in my backpack and almost melted, friend bought one last year, got about 45 minutes of battery life
02:43 < codermattie> its built with a huge CPU fan so it just sucks juice and sounds like an airplane
02:44 < codermattie> they also neglect to mention much that they use coreboot , so if you repartition the disk it will brick it
02:44 < vortexx> ah yeah that is a problem, sometimes the linux kernels on my Dell XPS 9310 will do that if for some reason the bluetooth chip isn't activated on boot (suspend doesn't work if it isn't, which kills battery life of course)
02:44 < codermattie> I had an old one and they never once updated the BIOS
02:45 < vortexx> err coreboot would brick it on repartition? because of?
02:45 < vortexx> some TPM thing?
02:45 < codermattie> coreboot puts part of the bios on a partition
02:45 < vortexx> ah
02:45  * oldlaptop uses 10+ year-old thinkpads, it's going to be hard not to improve on battery life
02:45 < vortexx> well my only experience with coreboot is on APUx
02:45 < codermattie> my m1 lasts about 6 hours of heavy coding, the framework about 2 hours
02:45 < oldlaptop> The front page says something about "open firmware" (by which I assume they don't mean THAT openfirwmare) already
02:46 < vortexx> plus comments from people trying coreboot on thinkpads and failing
02:46 < oldlaptop> coreboot is not an unreasonable inference
02:46 < vortexx> <cough> Chohag <cough>
02:46 < codermattie> My friend tried system76 last year, and framework this year
02:46 < oldlaptop> vortexx: And walking in here wanting to actually use grub's kopenbsd.
02:46 < codermattie> so the info is fresh
02:47 < vortexx> oldlaptop: yeah there's that too, kopenbsd must be the least ever tested bit of code in grub, and I say that as someone who uses grub to load openbsd
02:48 < codermattie> I gave him a thinkpad too, he tried about 6 linux distros, openbsd, and freebsd and couldnt get all the hardware to work
02:48 < oldlaptop> why are you someone who uses kopenbsd? (or do you mean you chainload the correct bootloader)
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02:48 < vortexx> I don't, I chainload the right bootloader like any sane person
02:48 < oldlaptop> Ah, okay.
02:48 < vortexx> always have
02:49 < vortexx> even back 2002 I didn't use kopenbsd, it never worked
02:49 < oldlaptop> I don't have any systems in use that chainload anything with grub anymore
02:49 < vortexx> (for those who don't know, I'm the only person here who's tried Linux's FFS support and OpenBSD's ext2fs support rather extensively)
02:49 < oldlaptop> the one remaining BIOS machine (x61) boots linux rarely enough that chainloading grub with https://man.openbsd.org/man8/amd64/boot.8#boot~2 is tolerable
02:50 < vortexx> (in rw)
02:50 < codermattie> I never got the linux/bsd stuff to work
02:50  * oldlaptop daily-drives ext2fs in rw, more or less
02:50 < oldlaptop> Not linux ufs in rw.
02:50 < vortexx> a lot of people just use F12 at boot and choose the boot partition too, it's about as easy
02:50 < oldlaptop> The UEFI thinkpads just boot to refind.
02:51 < oldlaptop> refind is good.
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02:53 < codermattie> frameworks have swappable drives so you can "plug and play" haha various mixes of systems
02:53 < codermattie> or leave stuff behind if you are travelling abroad
02:54 < vortexx> I'd rather try raid1c with those removable drives
02:54 < vortexx> hopefully the speed is OKayish
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02:55 < vortexx> you fly into the US, you always run the risk of having your IT gear imaged
02:55 < codermattie> I dont care, but some people might want to leave data/system images behind when travelling
02:56 < vortexx> those pesky memes might get you arrested in a few countries, yes
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02:57 < zyxer> Uh... Why does cwmrc refuse to cooperate with move window?
02:57 < vortexx> codermattie: did your laptop melt down whilst on a plane? they do warn to remove lithium batteries from charging laptops before boarding
02:58 < zyxer> bind-mouse M-1          window-move
02:58 < vortexx> zyxer: does it work in 1bpp ?
02:59 < zyxer> I have that in my cwmrc file, still, I need to hold... Wait I think I am rteàrded
02:59 < codermattie> vortexx: actually I was traveling on the highway, took about 45 minutes to reach the city, when I opened the laptop sleeve it was hot as hell and the fan was going full blast
02:59 < vortexx> that's a great spelling of that word :P
02:59 < zyxer> Is there a way to switch the default C and M key?
02:59 < vortexx> codermattie: not any better then
03:00 < codermattie> vortexx: and that is with the default ubuntu
03:00 < zyxer> I am back to my split keyboard and the alt key is extremely inaccessible as a modifier for using with mouse
03:00 < vortexx> codermattie: yeah same here
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03:00 < codermattie> I was really excited about system76, big big dissapointment
03:01 < vortexx> they do desktops as well right? I seem to remember the interest apart from coreboot was no Management Engine?
03:01 < zyxer> vortexx: No I haven't tried that yet. Or well I tried on old hardware s9ome month ago and broke. atm I need to get some coding done
03:01 < zyxer> And moving window was grinding my severything
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03:04 < vortexx> maybe the desktops are ok with System76, but laptops are hard, which is why I commend frame.work so far
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03:08 < codermattie> vortexx: its my favorite UNIX laptop so far, especially since you can easily upgrade the hardware
03:08 < codermattie> I put better RAM into mine, but I couldnt find laptop form ECC
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03:10 < vortexx> codermattie: which size is it though? And how big are the bezels?
03:11 < vortexx> (one of the things that drew me to the Dell XPS 13 line is the 2-3 mm bezels which makes a 13" laptop actually an 11" one)
03:13 < codermattie> I think its a 13"
03:14 < codermattie> the bezels are small , about 1/4 inch, top bezel has hardware kill switches for camera and mic
03:14 < codermattie> maybe less, the measuring tape is in the garage
03:15 < vortexx> sounds pretty good
03:15 < codermattie> all components are QR coded for ordering replacements
03:15 < vortexx> Vaios used to rule the 11" spectrum but when Dell decided to do so much better screens with less bezel...
03:16 < vortexx> so totally reparable, I do like that
03:16 < codermattie> everything is standard and slotted , not sodered like a mac
03:18 < vortexx> how it should be, but when you buy a Mac you know that
03:18 < vortexx> (South Park's latest episode illustrated that beautifully :P)
03:22 < codermattie> vortexx: they are still making south park? 
03:22 < vortexx> yep
03:22 < codermattie> crap I thought I bought all the episodes
03:22 < vortexx> latest episode landed Friday
03:22 < vortexx> (first of the season, if there's a season)
03:23 < vortexx> (was a double length one)
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03:27 < codermattie> Macs dont really need upgrades, and its a closed ecosystem which has ups and downs
03:29 < vortexx> yeah only RAM needs upgrading usually, if that's possible on the laptops
03:29 < vortexx> I made my cousin buy 32Gb on hers last year so she'd have some margin over the next few years (business expense)
03:29 < vortexx> (haven't had a laptop where you can upgrade the ram in ... 13 years?)
03:30 < codermattie> 64gig is enough for programming
03:30 < vortexx> and for OBS
03:31 < vortexx> at least storage isn't an issue any more
03:32 < codermattie> I have 2tb of storage and I havent used much of it, even with music in FLAC
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03:33 < remiliascarlet> 4 MiB is all you need, as an N64 or Nintendo DS homebrew dev.
03:33 < codermattie> on the framework I have 4tb on the framework and I dont think Ill ever use it up
03:34 < remiliascarlet> I already used up 8 TiB across 4 SSD's already.
03:34 < vortexx> yeah I have 2Tb which allows for booting 3 OSes plus holding on to the original Dell restore partitions. 
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03:35 < remiliascarlet> Most of it is virtual machines, video games, backups, and porn.
03:35 < vortexx> yeah but that's not on a laptop right?
03:35 < remiliascarlet> On a desktop.
03:36 < codermattie> my 2tb is on two laptops , 4tb on the framework, plus another 4tb on an enclosure
03:36 < vortexx> my network store is 6x4Tb in raid6
03:37 < vortexx> and all on spinning rust, SSDs are still too expensive
03:37 < vortexx> (3.5"x4 + 2.5"x2)
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03:44 < codermattie> man I think the OpenBSD wireless driver crapped out again, this time with no error messsages
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03:47 < vortexx> codermattie: happens all the time in my experience
03:48 < vortexx> not that I've had a working wifi chip since... maybe 2016
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03:49 < codermattie> well this driver issue is a serious problem if Im going to use openbsd as the DNS server for the network
03:50 < oldlaptop> you should not run OpenBSD as a DNS server over wifi.
03:50 < vortexx> yeah OpenBSD as an AP is usually not goo
03:50 < vortexx> d
03:50 < codermattie> its not the access point just the DNS server
03:50 < vortexx> which is behind wifi?
03:50 < oldlaptop> you should not run a DNS server behind wifi
03:50 < vortexx> and the wifi is on OpenBSD?
03:51 < codermattie> yeah, wifi
03:51 < oldlaptop> with any OS that's a bad plan
03:51 < codermattie> if openbsd cant do wifi its not much use to me
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03:51 < codermattie> am I supposed to put everything on ethernet?
03:51 < oldlaptop> OpenBSD as an AP isn't a great idea (source: I run OpenBSD as an AP), but it can work.
03:51 < oldlaptop> You're supposed to put servers on ethernet, because they're servers.
03:52 < oldlaptop> Wifi is a disastrous compromise to be made only when absolutely necessary (because the node's some battery-powered portable thing, usually)
03:52 < codermattie> well how am my wifi, which is everything , going to get DNS?
03:52 < vortexx> it's so slow as an AP, it's not really worh it (and I have OpenBSD doing my DNS but it's not in charge of the wifi for my laptop)
03:52 < vortexx> s/worh/worth
03:52 < codermattie> dont use wifi .... dude is 2023
03:52 < oldlaptop> The same way your wifi gets any other network service, over the network.
03:53 < oldlaptop> [wireless clients] ((())) [AP] <---> [real, wired network]
03:53 < oldlaptop> WiFi has inherent limitations that don't go away because of the date
03:53 < codermattie> thw wife is already pissed about how much hardware is on the cabinet , and the fiber only comes in one place
03:54 < codermattie> I cant add a server to the living room....
03:55 < mybalzitch> bye wife!
03:56 < codermattie> OpenBSD doesnt warm the bed .... OpenBSD is going to lose that one
03:56 < vortexx> you misunderstand, DNS server should usually be on the router (which can be OpenBSD), wifi is handled by the AP (which doesn't run OpenBSD), wifi can be extended by repeaters, and some fancy people have DNS on a separate server so if the router reboots internal services of the lan aren't affected
03:56 < codermattie> hmmm
03:56 < oldlaptop> it should go without saying, but a DNS server (if that's really all the box is doing) needs approximately no CPU power, memory, or storage
03:57 < codermattie> I need the OpenBSD box in my office, and I run a zone for local, a zone for wired , and general lookups
03:57 < oldlaptop> the smallest, cheapest fanless thing you can find will be more than enough
03:57 < vortexx> oldlaptop: unless you have misconfigured pf.conf on the the router to use urls instead of IPs :P
03:57 < oldlaptop> vortexx: sure.
03:58 < oldlaptop> (I should also say "DNS resolver, for a home network", I suppose. Running one of the root servers on a soekris is probably not a good plan.)
03:59 < vortexx> people are still running soekris? (such a shame they couldn't choose a future path)
03:59 < vortexx> I guess on auxiliary duties
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04:00 < oldlaptop> vortexx: (better rhetorical device than apu2)
04:00 < codermattie> well lets see if a reboot magically fixes it
04:00 < vortexx> oldlaptop: exactly
04:01 < codermattie> "If I had been drinking from the toilet I might have been killed" - Ace Ventura
04:03 < codermattie> well the reboot fixed it
04:03 < codermattie> considering that its a intel NUC its not exactly a challenging hardware setup
04:04 < codermattie> I also had to switch all the lightning hardware to USB
04:05 < vortexx> yeah Lightning is unlikely to land in OpenBSD
04:05 < vortexx> I'd much rather ath11k show up
04:05 < codermattie> why not lightning?
04:06 < vortexx> whole new stack to code, vs upgrades to usb?
04:06 < vortexx> do other BSDs support Lightning?
04:06 < codermattie> not sure, openbsd was my first choice
04:06 < codermattie> linux does
04:06 < oldlaptop> If you write the patch, maybe lightning will show up
04:07 < codermattie> that is true
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04:09 < codermattie> but I dont have infinite money to write a big kernel patch
04:10 < vortexx> so 7.5 is going to be one of those HARD upgrades if I read the "remove syscalls from libc" tealeaves correctly. It means that any package you have from 7.4 probably won't start? VPN stuff is going to be fun (yes, be on wireguard before then if you can)
04:11 < oldlaptop> vortexx: not "syscalls", AIUI, syscall(2)
04:11 < vortexx> oldlaptop: but it'll break a bunch of 7.4 packages right?
04:12 < oldlaptop> I guess it'll break some of the special-snowflake language runtimes that don't want to use the normal libc syscall stubs?
04:12 < codermattie> I have a "admin" user with shell set to "sh" to fix breakage
04:12 < oldlaptop> codermattie: nb: sh and ksh are the same file
04:12 < oldlaptop> /bin/sh and /bin/ksh, I mean
04:13 < codermattie> thats confusing
04:13 < codermattie> what is sh, and what is kourne?
04:13 < oldlaptop> ksh(1) is OpenBSD's shell. It runs in POSIX-sh compatibility mode when it's called with "sh" in argv[0].
04:13 < codermattie> oldlaptop: thanks
04:14 < codermattie> does it have any dialect from kourne?
04:14 < oldlaptop> (tar, pax, and cpio are the same binary too, crunchgen(8) makes binaries that do this, busybox in linux-land is reasonably famous for doing this, etc. etc.)
04:14 < oldlaptop> It doesn't turn off all the ksh extensions when called as sh, if that's what you mean
04:15 < oldlaptop> it's approximately equivalent to what bash does with POSIXLY_CORRECT (and I believe also when it's called as "sh")
04:15 < vortexx> in singlemode, sh vs ksh doesn't seem to read /etc/kshrc 
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04:16 < oldlaptop> Anyhow, anything in /bin and /sbin is statically linked. If those don't work, you are almost certainly hosed beyond recovery from the running system.
04:18 < codermattie> I used to compile a busybox into my linux kernels, was very handy a few times
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06:32 < hardkorebob> https://github.com/hardkorebob/pyrhate
06:32 < hardkorebob> Done
06:32 < hardkorebob> oops
06:33 < hardkorebob> wrong channel
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11:33 < emmanuelux> hello, pftop returns "device is busy" after some hours
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11:34 < remiliascarlet> Cool!
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11:36 < tercaL> Trying to unchroot httpd, have read the related manpage and set my httpd.conf accordingly, so here it is; https://pastebin.mozilla.org/WHvRFRdq
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11:37 < tercaL> But it does not work. It all says; File not found, on any page. Any clue?
11:38 < remiliascarlet> tercaL: Does "httpd -n" specify which line?
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11:38 < remiliascarlet> Because looking at your config, there are 4 possibilities.
11:41 < tercaL> Sorry, here is the config file https://pastebin.mozilla.org/voQjGf9z
11:42 < remiliascarlet> I know, but what is the exact output of "httpd -n" in the command line?
11:42 < tercaL> httpd -n says: Configuration is IOK
11:42 < tercaL> *OK
11:43 < remiliascarlet> "File not found" sounds like either /var/www/logs, or /usr/share/misc/mime.types, or /var/www/htdocs, or /var/www/run/php-fpm.sock doesn't exist. Are you able to "ls" each one of them?
11:44 < remiliascarlet> Or do you mean you see that in the browser? In that case, something else might be going on.
11:45 < deltahotel> any change to congigure my touchpad? https://pastebin.mozilla.org/Vnv1BCuK
11:45 < deltahotel> any chance...
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11:47 < tercaL> remiliascarlet: here the outputs: https://i.ibb.co/bNJjyLC/Screenshot-20231029-144521-Juice-SSH.jpg
11:47 < deltahotel> HP Laptop with ELAN709
11:47 < tercaL> And yes, I see that in the browser
11:48 < remiliascarlet> tercaL: Can you try `chown www:www /var/www/htdocs/index.php`?
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11:52 < tercaL> Done, same thing happens (File not found) here; https://ibb.co/Yfh3y5Z
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11:53 < tercaL> remiliascarlet: I even did chown -R www:www /var/www/htdocs to apply on all.
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11:56 < remiliascarlet> The other thing I might suggest is: 1) remove the `/*.php[/?]*` block, or at least comment it out. 2) remove the `/` from `/*.php`.
11:57 < remiliascarlet> Oh yeah, and change `root "/var/www/htdocs/"` to just `root "/htdocs"`, and remove the `chroot "/"` line as well. No need to include "/var/www".
11:58 < remiliascarlet> httpd already assumes you're using /var/www anyway.
12:01 < tercaL> remiliascarlet: made the changes above, too, didn't help. removing chroot "/"? I had no such line usually, and it worked fine, however here I'm trying to remove/disable chroot.
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12:03 < quinq> tercaL, I'd first try without CGI, then setup fastcgi
12:04 < tercaL> So, /index.html works now, /index.php outputs File not found
12:04 < tercaL> Although it's there.
12:04 < tercaL> quinq: yep, html files do work unchrooted
12:05 < quinq> ok
12:05 < quinq> Also, slowgi chroots in /var/www by default
12:05 < quinq> s/slowgi/slowcgi/
12:06 < quinq> I'd run it in foreground (-d -v) to see what it says
12:07 < remiliascarlet> Ah yeah, I forgot you can do `httpd -d`. You'll need to run `rcctl stop httpd` first though.
12:08 < tercaL> Here it is: https://ibb.co/zsj1N8n
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12:08 < quinq> Yeah but I'd rather suspect slowcgi
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12:10 < tercaL> probably something has to do in php-fpm.conf
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12:14 < tercaL> php-fpm.conf file has: chroot = /var/www, replaced it with chroot = / and it worked! Thanks both.
12:15 < remiliascarlet> tercaL: Yes, but go to a webpage while it's running with `httpd -d -v`.
12:15 < remiliascarlet> Just running it alone will of course only keep it running in the background.
12:15 < remiliascarlet> *waiting for any connection.
12:16 < remiliascarlet> Oh, so it was a php-fpm.conf issue?
12:16 < quinq> You're welcome, tercaL 
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12:20 < tercaL> Thanks.
12:20 < tercaL> remiliascarlet: Yep, one more chroot-related line there, too. Thanks.
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14:24 < jfsimon1981_b> Good afternoon
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14:29 < IcePic> Got my visionfive2 riscv64 installed yesterday. Quirky platform, that one.
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15:14 < kn> how so?
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16:18 < technoid_> IcePic: what are you planning on doing with it?
16:21 < armin> I'm still sitting on this ls patch in my pocket. It basically just implements grouping directories before files. I have no idea why nobody before me wanted that in BSD ls. 
16:23 < armin> The only reason I didn't drop this on misc@, yet, is simply that I don't know how to tell people that I know this replicates --group-directories-first from GNU ls in a way but I have no intention to replicate that so I chose -D.
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16:23 < thrig> pretty sure windows has a weird directory groupin thing
16:24 < armin> no idea, didn't use windows in a very long time now.
16:26 < avemestr> Windows 11 at least seems to do some weird grouping and sorting nowadays. OS X also does the lexical order with files and directories mixed.
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16:39 < sibiria> avemestr: macOS lets you "show directories on top"
16:39 < sibiria> these days there's a UI setting for it. in the past it was a property list item one had to find out about
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16:44 < armin> the thing is that BSD ls has nothing similar to --group-directories-first.
16:44 < armin> that simply doesn't exist. so the options you have are: installing coreutils and using gls, using exa/eza/lsd, or patching BSD ls.
16:47  * zelest would gladly resort to lsd
16:47 < zelest> had no idea that was an option
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16:50 < armin> i would by all means kindly ask you to buy 2 tickets for me, too.
16:50 < zelest> :P
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17:48 < mischief> armin: you could just write a shell alias for eg ls -l|sort -k1 -r
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17:59 < armin> mischief: that won't work with columns
17:59 < armin> mischief: https://uno.m2m.pm/patch.txt
18:00 < armin> mischief: this here would, i don't know yet how to perfectionize it...
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18:14 < vortexx> armin: just post it to misc@ and see what reaction it gets? Someone else might chime in with a fix
18:15 < armin> vortexx: would love to add man-page addition as well as -h help usage thing first, but ye
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18:19 < solene> I have xfwm4 crashing when starting xfce on two -current computers, is it only me?
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18:24 < ssm_> solene has returned!
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18:27 < sibiria> praise the laaaawd
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18:32 < solene> I just hope I won't be harassed and have to leave again
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18:35 < ssm_> you were getting harassed?
18:36 < sibiria> :-|
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19:59 < waffles> hey so openbsd is the only bsd distribution that'll work on my hardware, I'm trying to set my USB DAC as my output device but I'm having trouble 
20:00 < waffles> dmesg says my dac is uaudio1 so I've ran sndioctl server
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20:00 < waffles> .device=1
20:01 < waffles> I then ran rcctl set sndiod flags -f rsnd/0 -F rsnd/1
20:02 < waffles> rcctl restart sndiod and rcctl reload sndiod
20:02 < waffles> aucat says couldn't open audio device, getting decoder errors in Firefox when listening to videos
20:03 < waffles> sry for the long message thx for helping 
20:05 < quinq> Maybe you should run sndiod manually while setting it up, and when it works run it via rc
20:05 < quinq> (ie with -dd*)
20:05 < waffles> yeah Im trying to set sndiod now before I do it in rc
20:06 < ssm_> make sure you stop sndiod daemon you started with rcctl
20:07 < ssm_> also maybe add a few -d flags for debugging output
20:07 < ssm_> when running manually
20:07 < quinq> That was told already
20:07 < waffles> hm now I'm getting an error sndioctl server.device=1 can't open control device 
20:08 < waffles> should I restart first before doing anything 
20:09 < quinq> As ssm_ said, stop applications using sound, and make sure no other sndiod is running anymore
20:09 < waffles> yeah I just ran the stop command 
20:09 < quinq> But *verify*
20:09 < quinq> With ps/pgrep, whatever
20:09 < waffles> 1 sec I'm gonna wiki that 
20:10 < waffles> sndiod is in stopped services according to rcctl ls stopped
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20:12 < quinq> pgrep -l sndio
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20:12 < waffles> 37585 sndiod 1242 sndiod
20:12 < quinq> So still running I suppose
20:13 < waffles> hm idk what to do if rcctl stop doesn't do it
20:13 < quinq> kill it! (not with fire)
20:13 < ssm_> fire == -9
20:13 < quinq> ^^
20:14 < waffles> kill says illegal process id sndiod
20:14 < quinq> Yeah, that's not an id, that's a name
20:14 < ssm_> # pkill sndiod
20:15 < waffles> oh thx
20:15 < waffles> sry I'm Linux user 
20:15 < ssm_> linux has pkill too
20:15 < quinq> The audience is listening
20:15 < ssm_> and killall, for some reason
20:15 < waffles> ok no longer listed 
20:15 < waffles> yeah I use killall usually but I think that doesn't work in void
20:15 < quinq> It would
20:16 < quinq> It's a matter of what tools you install
20:16 < waffles> ok so sndiod is now actually dead so I guess we can get started 
20:16 < waffles> pgrep says nothing 
20:18 < waffles> dmesg says uaudio0 is my webcam, uaudio1 is my dac audio2 at audio1
20:21 < waffles> so my dac would be snd/2 if I'm reading this correctly 
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20:21 < ssm_> yup
20:22 < ssm_> considering openbsd doesn't load drivers in parallel, it should always be in that order too
20:22 < waffles> I need to run rcctl set sndiod flags -f rsnd/0 -F rsnd/2
20:22 < ssm_> unless your hardware does something weird
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20:23 < ssm_> waffles: test it by just running sndiod by itself first
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20:24 < waffles> running it by itself says nothing pgrep shows 32076 sndiod 13760 sndiod
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20:27 < waffles> so after that I've ran rcctl start sndiod sndaudioctl server.device=2
20:28 < waffles> can't open control device 
20:28 < thrig> does dmesg show control devices on the device?
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20:29 < ssm_> waffles: if you only specified -f rsnd/0 and -F rsnd/2, server.device should have 0 and 1, not 0 and 2
20:29 < ssm_> try server.device=1
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20:30 < waffles> ah he right 
20:30 < waffles> ur*
20:30 < ssm_> mom
20:30 < waffles> alright we have gotten somewhere the wav file is trying to play 
20:31 < ssm_> run sndioctl without any args, and see what output.level and output.mute are set to
20:31 < thrig> https://thrig.me/tmp/no-controls-alas.txt
20:31 < waffles> output level 1 server device 1 app aucat level 1 app Firefox level 1
20:32 < waffles> Mine has 1 control thrig
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20:36 < ssm_> hmm my dmesg got flooded with `drm_gem_object_init size too big 1077940224`
20:36 < ssm_> nothing bad happened though
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20:37 < ssm_> maybe it was minetest?
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20:46 < waffles> sry for the trouble idk what's wrong :(
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20:51 < waffles> I think uaudio1 isn't rsnd/2
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20:51 < waffles> but idk how to list them 
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20:52 < ssm_> I'd grep my dmesg, but it got clobbered by the above error
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20:56 < waffles> I tried cat /dev/urandom /dev/audio1-9 but not getting anything 
20:56 < waffles> oh uaudio1
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21:01 < ssm_> cat /dev/urandom /dev/audio[1-9] would just cat those devices, I think what you're trying to do is redirect urandom's output to an audio device, which would be  cat /dev/urandom >/dev/audiofoo
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21:03 < waffles> yes im getting no space left on device error 
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21:04 < sibiria> remember to remove the gigantic files you've accidentally created
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21:05 < waffles> oh yeah do I need to remove /dev/uaudio1 or will that crash my dac
21:06 < ssm_> let be known that this is what extended linux exposure does to the unix capabilities of the youth /s
21:06 < waffles> Ik ik, I've been trying openbsd on and off for a while but I always get hung up here 
21:08 < waffles> I'm sure I'm just missing something the documentation shows how to do it 
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21:11 < zyxer> @waffles
21:11 < zyxer> https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq13.html#usbaudio
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21:12 < zyxer> Worked for e
21:13 < zyxer> me*
21:13 < waffles> ya that's what I've been following 
21:15 < zyxer> Is the headphones plugged in correctly? (I once accidentally plugged them in mic then tried to debugg audio for 1.5 hours. Then cried when I double checked headphone jack)
21:16 < zyxer> sndioctl server.device=1
21:16 < zyxer> Then play some audio. Check that hardware didn't default to a mute or something
21:17 < waffles> ik what umean lol this is an external DAC that I don't touch 
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21:18 < zyxer> Yea, I think my DAC went on mute
21:18 < zyxer> For some reason
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21:18 < zyxer> It is a BlasterX G5
21:18 < waffles> hm I forgot to check if dwm would launch on startup lol
21:19 < zyxer> You want to go through xenodm DM
21:19 < zyxer> it has security bonuses things when launching DE/WM
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21:19 < waffles> gotcha gotcha 
21:20 < waffles> ok so rebooting did not fix it 
21:21 < waffles> just for giggles I tried setting my server device to 0 because I set that as the flag
21:23 < waffles> thx for the help so far I'll come back at it later 
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22:09 < vortexx> zyxer: I just tested adding a custom xorg.conf.d config file to reduce bpp down to 1 in a VM, the VESA driver doesn't seem to want to go below 24bpp
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22:12 < zyxer> Yea
22:12 < zyxer> Lowering bpp give error
22:12 < zyxer> Or issue
22:12 < zyxer> That why I wanted simulated monochromacy
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22:14 < zyxer> If there was a post processing thing that remove color, so it still renders each image with color to not cause issue error probleming things but then post processes and removes coloring
22:15 < zyxer> Would be super easy to make a formula to change the color ones. Just, average out the rgb values. But I can't graffix or know how to make such a setting in xorg
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22:22 < vortexx> it may just be a driver issue
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22:40 < vortexx> I managed to get 16 and 8 bit colour (xenodm looks really weird in 8 bit) but StaticGray doesn't seem to work. 4bit and 1bit don't work, X won't start
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22:44 < zyxer> Yea
22:45 < zyxer> The old hardware runs on tops 16 bit, maybe 8, so those work. But they give compatibility issues with some software 
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23:15 < ssm_> this is a basic networking question, how do I find domains on my local network? And is it possible while running unwind with dns forwarding?
23:15 < ssm_> I can do it if I'm not using unwind
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23:29 < thrig> what does find mean
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23:31 < zyxer> Ok so I am gonna be honest. Ppl here are the most knowledgeable on security. And, I guess it is off topic. When I boot on an intel NUC thing I get warning at booting "RETBleed: Warning: Spectre v2 mitigation leaves CPU vulnearable to RETBleed attacks, data leaks possible!"
23:31 < zyxer> When I use the search engine all I find is about some issue VMs get
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23:32 < zyxer> for context: I had a linux installation on a laptop, I took the M.2 SATA and insert in intel NUC. All works but that warning triggers me and makes me noid
23:34 < mcornick> ssm_: man unwind.conf, look at the example for "force autoconf", that's what I use
23:35 < ssm_> I actually have force autoconf { attlocal.net }
23:35 < ssm_> though I still can't seem to resolve any domains
23:36 < mcornick> dunno then, I use a subdomain of home.arpa for my home network
23:36 < fro> zyxer: i wouldn't worry about it
23:37 < zyxer> fro: Thanks. I been coding on it without internet. A bit anoying only having a pad to search for any issue help thing
23:38 < fro> i think newer linux kernels have RETBleed patches
23:38 < fro> but in general not a real concern for average users
23:38 < fro> especially when using it offline!
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23:43 < fro> there's probably also microcode updates for that too
23:43 < fro> i'm starting to lose track of all the spectre-related vulns tho
23:45 < myappie> fro: hey!
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23:46 < myappie> would you happen to have a large collection of exploits or hacker ezines? im trying to make an AI that can break into any system. meant only to harden openbsd, and i've notified the authorities (here pst.no but i will ofcourse otify cia/darpa as well)
23:47 < myappie> im scared because in a few years anybody'll be able to do it
23:48 < myappie> i have some ezines already. even found my name in one of them!
23:48 < myappie> talking about what an idiot loser i was etc. lol
23:48 < myappie> brought back some good memories (29a, one of their issues)
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23:50 < ssm_> myapple: if AI can break into openbsd (I would be highly surprised), it would be very useful to the project to know how so the bugs could be fixed
23:51 < myappie> yeah, it's probably just gonna find bugs. but break into linux sure!
23:52 < myappie> whats funny is, most of the code are security measures to make sure it doesnt break out of itself if it does become sentient. thats actually not a joke.
23:52 < myappie> not sentient-sentient but "hallucinate" as it's called, and start doing things on its own
23:53 < myappie> also -- do we still have ties to DARPA?
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--- Log closed Mon Oct 30 00:00:32 2023